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RE: [podcasters] Neat way of dealing with long RSS

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  • Todd Cochrane
    I have always been pretty shocked when I see RSS entries with a 100 shows in them, to each his own but at some point a person has to work on their website
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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      I have always been pretty shocked when I see RSS entries with a 100 shows in
      them, to each his own but at some point a person has to work on their
      website brand and not count on RSS for everything.



      _____

      From: podcasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:podcasters@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Michael W. Dean
      Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:06 PM
      To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [podcasters] Neat way of dealing with long RSS



      Submission and Coffee with Dollie Llama is up to 38 episodes, and the
      RSS was getting long.

      I copied the RSS file and renamed the new one
      "DollieArchiveRSS-first-30.xml" and took out the last 8 episodes. Then
      I took the main RSS file and deleted all but the last 8 episodes. I
      moved the MP3 links for the first 30 episodes off the main page,
      http://www.askdolli <http://www.askdollie.com/indexPOD.htm>
      e.com/indexPOD.htm

      and put an link on the main page to the archive page:
      http://www.askdolli <http://www.askdollie.com/archives.htm>
      e.com/archives.htm and put the MP3 links for the
      first 30 episodes on that page.

      OK, standard stuff.

      What I did then was made a second RSS feed out of the first 30-episode
      RSS file, and made a link on the archive page for that. I put a notice
      that says, "MP3s of all old episodes are below. You can manually
      download the ones you want, or you can get the FIRST ARCHIVE RSS here,
      and subscribe, and automatically download the first 30 episodes. (You
      may have to temporaraly set your podcatcher program to "download all.")

      I like the idea of this...That way if someone discovers the cast now
      (or a year from now), and loves it, they don't have to manually
      download each episode.

      I deleted my subscription to our podcast from iTunes, and resubscribed
      to the updated main one (same old URL) and also subscribed to the new
      (archive) feed.

      Both of them validate on http://feedvalidato <http://feedvalidator.org>
      r.org , and both of them
      do what I want them to in iTunes (old one downloads the new episodes,
      new one downloads the old episodes.)

      Thoughts? And anything you'd add on the site or in the feed to make
      this clearer to the user?

      MWD





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • I Print Stickers
      I ve been hand coding my file for a while now and I m beginning to do some work on xml code for others who are starting podcasts... I d like to know if
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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        I've been hand coding my file for a while now and I'm beginning to do
        some "work" on xml code for others who are starting podcasts...
        I'd like to know if someone can help me understand the code a little
        better?

        Here's a piece from my feed:

        <title>P9 Episode 071 -- Side One Dummy Vs. Hell's Bells</title>
        <link>http://www.plannineprint.com/</link>
        <description><![CDATA[This Week, More Best of 2006 Suggestions,
        Selections From The Side One Dummy Records Sampler, Starlite
        Desperation Trivia, Everclear Tour, Art Alexakis on Adam Carolla..
        Jams by Starlite Desperation, The Casualties, The Figgs, VCR and
        More..Order Your Plan Nine Rock Show Merch NOW!! http://
        plannineprint.com/store.html..Shop at Amazon through http://
        plannineprint.com/podcast]]></description>
        <pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:40:00 GMT</pubDate>
        <category>Music</category>
        <enclosure url="http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://
        plannineprint.com/podcasts/p9episode_071.mp3" length="88955782"
        type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">http://plannineprint.com/podcasts/
        p9episode_071.mp3</guid>
        <itunes:author>plannineprint.com</itunes:author>
        <itunes:subtitle>New Shirt Graphic!! HTTP://PLANNINEPRINT.COM/
        STORE.HTML ..The Best Album/Band of 2006?? Email your thoughts...
        email@... Hotline: 206-339-2664</itunes:subtitle>
        <itunes:summary>This Week, More Best of 2006 Suggestions, Selections
        From The Side One Dummy Records Sampler, Starlite Desperation
        Trivia, Everclear Tour, Art Alexakis on Adam Carolla.. Jams by
        Starlite Desperation, The Casualties, The Figgs, VCR and More..Order
        Your Plan Nine Rock Show Merch NOW!! http://plannineprint.com/
        store.html..Shop at Amazon through http://plannineprint.com/podcast</
        itunes:summary>
        <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>

        My questions:

        In the "description" line, is the... <![CDATA[ ... always necessary?

        In this line, <guid isPermaLink="false">http://plannineprint.com/
        podcasts/p9episode_071.mp3</guid> what is the proper info to put
        within the brackets?
        I've been using my file url, but before I hand coded, there was other
        info that my feed generator software was creating. The software
        didnt create valid feeds, that's why I switched to hand coding.

        Last question, should the info in the "description" line be the same
        as the info in the "itunes summary" line?

        Thanks in advance to all who reply.
        Write me off list if you prefer.
        Jasper from The Plan Nine Rock Show
        http://plannineprint.com
      • Michael W. Dean
        ... shows in ... === Thank you for the input, Todd. But can you please clarify? I m unclear if you are telling me, Don t bother making two feeds or
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Cochrane" <geeknews@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have always been pretty shocked when I see RSS entries with a 100
          shows in
          > them, to each his own but at some point a person has to work on their
          > website brand and not count on RSS for everything.

          ===
          Thank you for the input, Todd.

          But can you please clarify? I'm unclear if you are telling me, "Don't
          bother making two feeds" or suggesting, "Improve the HTML on your
          site" or simply saying, "It's good to shorten the RSS feed" or
          something else.

          Are you addressing my question of "Is there anything you'd add on the
          site or in the feed to make this clearer to the user?" or commenting
          in general that long feeds are not a good idea.

          Cheers,
          -MWD
        • Todd Cochrane
          Let me just spell out a couple of concerns, when a RSS feed grows beyond 250K in size iTunes will not index it. If your show notes are short an RSS feed can
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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            Let me just spell out a couple of concerns, when a RSS feed grows beyond
            250K in size iTunes will not index it. If your show notes are short an RSS
            feed can accommodate a lot of entries. Second point is server load. How many
            times a day is your RSS feed getting indexed by aggregators and other
            websites. The larger the file size the longer it will take to render and the
            higher chance you will have of having the feed rendering timeout. My
            personal thoughts on this are pretty well known but again this is only my
            personal preference as you are likely to hear others personal preference be
            100% opposite of mine.



            I think it is good to have 1 dedicated RSS feed for your podcast and it
            contain the number of past episodes that you would like a person who has
            become a fan of your show to be able to download. In my case I have 90 days
            worth of podcast in my feed that is roughly 24 shows. I have completed 229
            the other 225 shows are not in any feed. I rarely have anyone download a
            show that is more than 60 days old but my content is time sensitive your
            content may stand the test of time.



            I cannot see how a archive feed would hurt but I would not advertise it in a
            prominent place on my website again that is my personal preference.



            You will notice on my site I have a Blog feed and a Podcast feed that has
            worked well for me as those that only want to subscribe to the Podcast Feed
            can and then there are some that want both the podcast and blog entries
            combined.



            Todd..



            _____

            From: podcasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:podcasters@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Michael W. Dean
            Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:41 PM
            To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [podcasters] Re: Neat way of dealing with long RSS



            --- In podcasters@yahoogro <mailto:podcasters%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
            "Todd Cochrane" <geeknews@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have always been pretty shocked when I see RSS entries with a 100
            shows in
            > them, to each his own but at some point a person has to work on their
            > website brand and not count on RSS for everything.

            ===
            Thank you for the input, Todd.

            But can you please clarify? I'm unclear if you are telling me, "Don't
            bother making two feeds" or suggesting, "Improve the HTML on your
            site" or simply saying, "It's good to shorten the RSS feed" or
            something else.

            Are you addressing my question of "Is there anything you'd add on the
            site or in the feed to make this clearer to the user?" or commenting
            in general that long feeds are not a good idea.

            Cheers,
            -MWD





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike
            I have been thinking on this topic for a long time. How do I present an easy way for people to download some or all of the old shows while keeping my feed
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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              I have been thinking on this topic for a long time. How do I present
              an easy way for people to download some or all of the old shows while
              keeping my feed small and bandwidth friendly. I thought of an "archive
              feed" although I never thought to exclude the show notes for a smaller
              feed. That just seems to defeat the purpose of having the main feed
              then. I would hate to give them just a link to download the file, that
              gets tiring quickly. I have ideas in my head, but are difficult to put
              to paper and I surely don't have time to try and write up the program
              to do it.

              One thought I had the other day. While a blog is a great way to
              publish a podcast, is it really the best way? I am beginning to think
              not. Why? A blog is meant to publish new content. The old stuff is
              there but it is treated as old and thus is "hidden". A person coming
              onto the site can easily find the new stuff, but in the case of a show
              like Security Now (for example), how do I go back and download every
              show from the beginning? You go through the archives and manually
              download them all (unless you are a l33t h4x0r and can automate it).
              Now I would put what PodioBooks.com does to be close to the ideal, but
              is really best for serialized content not the "standard podcast".

              I must be writing too much code lately because I have been putting
              myself in the shoes of the user. We need something to 1) Make it
              easier for "Grandma" to find and listen to our old content and 2) Keep
              the process simple so people would actually use it.

              --
              Mike Wills
              Blog - http://mikewills.name
              Podcasts - http://theriverbendpodcast.com

              "Indicators are like Atomic Bombs. Handy to have but you should never
              use them unless you have too." - Anonymous
            • Michael W. Dean
              Stephen, thanks for the great answers today. By the way, do you (or anyone else on here) have an answer for the part of my OP on this thread about what to tell
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 4, 2007
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                Stephen, thanks for the great answers today.

                By the way, do you (or anyone else on here) have an answer for the
                part of my OP on this thread about what to tell people to set their
                iTunes (or other podcatchers at) to download all episodes in the
                archive with one click? I couldn't get iTunes to do it, even with the
                default set at "download all".

                Also, with regard to the issue of confusion about promoting two feeds,
                I'm not really promoting the archive feed. It's tucked away on the
                archive episode page, with an explanation of what it's for. I just
                need more info (the answer to the question in the above paragraph) to
                add to that explanation.

                Thanks,
                MWD
              • Stephen Eley
                ... When you first subscribe to a feed, it *always* gets only the latest episode. This is proper behavior. In most cases, people subscribe because they want
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                  On 1/5/07, Michael W. Dean <kittyfeet70@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > By the way, do you (or anyone else on here) have an answer for the
                  > part of my OP on this thread about what to tell people to set their
                  > iTunes (or other podcatchers at) to download all episodes in the
                  > archive with one click? I couldn't get iTunes to do it, even with the
                  > default set at "download all".

                  When you first subscribe to a feed, it *always* gets only the latest
                  episode. This is proper behavior. In most cases, people subscribe
                  because they want to try something new. If they want older episodes,
                  they'll get them deliberately. If subscribing to a podcast meant
                  automatically bringing down dozens of hours of content, a lot of
                  people would think twice before subscribing to new things.

                  Todd's right about the purpose of an RSS feed. It's to alert people
                  to the presence of new content. Bringing everything you've done onto
                  someone's hard drive with one click is not the function of an RSS
                  feed. If it's important to you to offer that functionality, give them
                  a zip file or a torrent or something more appropriate to the purpose.



                  --
                  Have Fun,
                  Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                  ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                  http://www.escapepod.org
                • Michael W. Dean
                  ... ======= Thank you (zipping and uploading now.) MWD
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                    --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Eley" <SFEley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 1/5/07, Michael W. Dean <kittyfeet70@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > By the way, do you (or anyone else on here) have an answer for the
                    > > part of my OP on this thread about what to tell people to set their
                    > > iTunes (or other podcatchers at) to download all episodes in the
                    > > archive with one click? I couldn't get iTunes to do it, even with the
                    > > default set at "download all".
                    >
                    > When you first subscribe to a feed, it *always* gets only the latest
                    > episode. This is proper behavior. In most cases, people subscribe
                    > because they want to try something new. If they want older episodes,
                    > they'll get them deliberately. If subscribing to a podcast meant
                    > automatically bringing down dozens of hours of content, a lot of
                    > people would think twice before subscribing to new things.
                    >
                    > Todd's right about the purpose of an RSS feed. It's to alert people
                    > to the presence of new content. Bringing everything you've done onto
                    > someone's hard drive with one click is not the function of an RSS
                    > feed. If it's important to you to offer that functionality, give them
                    > a zip file or a torrent or something more appropriate to the purpose.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Have Fun,
                    > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                    > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                    > http://www.escapepod.org
                    >
                    =======
                    Thank you (zipping and uploading now.)

                    MWD
                  • Michael W. Dean
                    ... ====================== 20 episodes is about 500 megs zipped. Do you think even a rabid fan would actually download that (and would it be doable on a good
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Eley" <SFEley@...> wrote:
                      .... Todd's right about the purpose of an RSS feed. It's to alert people
                      > to the presence of new content. Bringing everything you've done onto
                      > someone's hard drive with one click is not the function of an RSS
                      > feed. If it's important to you to offer that functionality, give them
                      > a zip file or a torrent or something more appropriate to the purpose.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Have Fun,
                      > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                      > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                      > http://www.escapepod.org
                      >
                      ======================
                      20 episodes is about 500 megs zipped. Do you think even a rabid fan
                      would actually download that (and would it be doable on a good
                      connection without errors?) or should I break it into two ten-episode
                      archives of around 250 megs each?
                    • George L Smyth
                      Jasper - Exactly. I get a large number of downloads from my old shows because of the nature of my shows. If you ve got a timely show (news, for instance)
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                        Jasper -

                        Exactly. I get a large number of downloads from my old shows because of the
                        nature of my shows. If you've got a timely show (news, for instance) then it
                        doesn't make much sense to keep a lot of shows on your feed. However, if your
                        show is not timely (music, how-to's) then taking older shows off your feed
                        hurts your downloads.

                        Cheers -

                        george


                        --- I Print Stickers <alrighta@...> wrote:

                        > I had a problem with my shows updating back in september. Big thanks
                        > to Rob W. for giving me some assistance.
                        > I figured out that if the xml file is over 79 or 80kb, itunes will no
                        > longer automatically update it. I deleted a bunch of old shows for a
                        > couple months and my numbers went significantly down, but the feed
                        > began updating properly again.
                        > There's always the rabid new subscribers that listen to the old
                        > shows, so I added the old shows, but I didnt take the time to add the
                        > correct info to all of the old shows. Using less characters keeps
                        > the file size smaller, so you can keep more shows in your feed if it
                        > gets too big.
                        > Since I've put the old shows back in the feed with less info, my
                        > numbers and bandwidth shot way up. According to my stats., many
                        > people were listening to the older shows since I've added them. I
                        > recommend keeping them all in the feed if you can, unless your show
                        > is the type of show that "expires".
                        > Jasper

                        -------------------------------------

                        Eclectic Mix: http://EclecticMix.com
                        One Minute How-To: http://OneMinuteHowTo.com
                        DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org - Blog: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PrudentInvestor

                        Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com - Blog: http://feeds.feedburner.com/GLSmyth
                      • George L Smyth
                        ... It depends. I know that once I started listening to 7th Son, I spent quite a bit of time downloading the whole deal. I do have an answer for you that you
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                          --- "Michael W. Dean" <kittyfeet70@...> wrote:
                          > 20 episodes is about 500 megs zipped. Do you think even a rabid fan
                          > would actually download that (and would it be doable on a good
                          > connection without errors?) or should I break it into two ten-episode
                          > archives of around 250 megs each?

                          It depends. I know that once I started listening to 7th Son, I spent quite a
                          bit of time downloading the whole deal.

                          I do have an answer for you that you may wish to consider - http://poddisc.com
                          <g> I have been thinking about this because I've got a year and a half of
                          great music I'd love to get out to people.

                          Cheers -

                          george

                          -------------------------------------

                          Eclectic Mix: http://EclecticMix.com
                          One Minute How-To: http://OneMinuteHowTo.com
                          DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org - Blog: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PrudentInvestor

                          Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com - Blog: http://feeds.feedburner.com/GLSmyth
                        • Matthew Wayne Selznick
                          ... Poddisc.com is a great option that Stephen s modestly not mentioned. I considered releasing the archives of my DIY Endeavors music podcast through poddisc,
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                            On 1/5/07, George L Smyth <glsmyth@...> wrote:
                            > I do have an answer for you that you may wish to consider - http://poddisc.com
                            > <g> I have been thinking about this because I've got a year and a half of
                            > great music I'd love to get out to people.

                            Poddisc.com is a great option that Stephen's modestly not mentioned.
                            I considered releasing the archives of my DIY Endeavors music podcast
                            through poddisc, but the license most of that music is under is very
                            much "non-commercial." It's a pickle.

                            --
                            Matthew Wayne Selznick
                            Consultant, Podcaster, Author
                            ************************************

                            MWS Media
                            Podcast consultation, web
                            hosting, and writing services
                            for DIY, independent creators
                            http://www.mwsmedia.com

                            Podiobooks.com
                            The original source of audio
                            books in podcast form.
                            http://www.podiobooks.com

                            Podcasts:
                            The DIY Endeavors Podcast
                            http://www.podmotel.com/diyendeavors
                            Five Minute Memoir
                            http://www.fiveminutememoir.com
                            Sonitotum
                            http://www.mattselznick.com

                            Books:
                            "Brave Men Run - A Novel of the
                            Sovereign Era"
                            http://www.bravemenrun.com
                          • Stephen Eley
                            ... Actually, it s less modesty and more the fact that I haven t sat down yet to develop a proper info-and-guidelines page for podcasters. I m hoping to get
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                              On 1/5/07, Matthew Wayne Selznick <mwselznick@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Poddisc.com is a great option that Stephen's modestly not mentioned.

                              Actually, it's less modesty and more the fact that I haven't sat down
                              yet to develop a proper info-and-guidelines page for podcasters. I'm
                              hoping to get that up next week, and as time passes I'll be trying to
                              refine some tools to make life easier on myself and other podcasters.

                              One thing I've learned from the three podcasts we're currently listing
                              is that the PodDisc model doesn't work equally well for every podcast.
                              Only under particular circumstances are people willing to pay money
                              for free content. I don't recommend that anyone make PodDisc the only
                              option for access to podcast archives.


                              --
                              Have Fun,
                              Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                              ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                              http://www.escapepod.org
                            • Michael W. Dean
                              ... =================== OK. Now I get it. Thank you. I deleted the silly archive RSS link and made two huge zips of first 30 episodes. Here s the text now on
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 5, 2007
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                                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Eley" <SFEley@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > On 1/5/07, Michael W. Dean <kittyfeet70@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > By the way, do you (or anyone else on here) have an answer for the
                                > > part of my OP on this thread about what to tell people to set their
                                > > iTunes (or other podcatchers at) to download all episodes in the
                                > > archive with one click? I couldn't get iTunes to do it, even with the
                                > > default set at "download all".
                                >
                                > When you first subscribe to a feed, it *always* gets only the latest
                                > episode. This is proper behavior. In most cases, people subscribe
                                > because they want to try something new. If they want older episodes,
                                > they'll get them deliberately. If subscribing to a podcast meant
                                > automatically bringing down dozens of hours of content, a lot of
                                > people would think twice before subscribing to new things.
                                >
                                > Todd's right about the purpose of an RSS feed. It's to alert people
                                > to the presence of new content. Bringing everything you've done onto
                                > someone's hard drive with one click is not the function of an RSS
                                > feed. If it's important to you to offer that functionality, give them
                                > a zip file or a torrent or something more appropriate to the purpose.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Have Fun,
                                > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                                > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                                > http://www.escapepod.org
                                >
                                ===================
                                OK. Now I get it. Thank you.
                                I deleted the silly archive RSS link and made two huge zips of first
                                30 episodes. Here's the text now on the Archive page
                                ( http://www.askdollie.com/archives.htm ):
                                -----------
                                MP3s of all old episodes are here. You can manually download the ones
                                you want (below), or download zipped files of 10-15 episodes at a
                                time. Download time is approx 20-40 min per zipped archive, depending
                                on your DSL speed. (Right-click to save on PC.)

                                Zipped archives of MP3s of batches of old episodes:
                                Zipped archive 1 (250 megs)
                                Zipped archive 2 (300 megs)

                                (Lower numbers indicate earlier archives, i.e. Archive 1 is episodes
                                1-13, Archive 2 is episodes 14-30, etc.)
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