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Shuffle This

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  • Harold Johnson
    Cute, but where s the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and more hours of
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
      Cute, but where's the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price
      range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
      more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
      playing digital music or the included FM radio):

      http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/

      vs.

      http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

      iRivers also play WMA and the open source OGG format in addition to
      MP3. AAC is alright, but I only use it when I'm buying music through
      iTunes, which I haven't done since getting into podcasting.

      Additionally, according to consumer reports, iRivers also have better
      sound than iPods, though that will always be subjective. (I also
      haven't heard the sound on the iPod Shuffle devices yet, so I can't
      report on that myself.)

      Harold J. Johnson
      http://SomethingthatHappened.com
    • Steve Dembo
      Even more important, there s no freaking screen! Just imagine trying to scroll through 5 episodes of a show that all uses the same intro music to find the one
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
        Even more important, there's no freaking screen! Just imagine trying
        to scroll through 5 episodes of a show that all uses the same intro
        music to find the one you want! You'd have to listen to about 30-45
        seconds before you figure out which episode you're listening to! Or
        imagine having your podcasts mixed in with your normal music. Do you
        really want to be jogging along and go from some techno to
        ITConversations???? I mean, wow. I think the new iPod gets the aware
        for the least Podcasting friendly MP3 player.

        And on the same subject, the new Apple Mini doesn't even have an
        audio-in jack. You would think that Apple would be going out their
        way to SUPPORT podcasting, not make it more difficult!

        The irony drips.

        Steve
        www.teach42.com



        On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:14:16 -0800, Harold Johnson
        <harold.johnson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Cute, but where's the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price
        > range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
        > more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
        > playing digital music or the included FM radio):
        >
        > http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/
        >
        > vs.
        >
        > http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
        >
        > iRivers also play WMA and the open source OGG format in addition to
        > MP3. AAC is alright, but I only use it when I'm buying music through
        > iTunes, which I haven't done since getting into podcasting.
        >
        > Additionally, according to consumer reports, iRivers also have better
        > sound than iPods, though that will always be subjective. (I also
        > haven't heard the sound on the iPod Shuffle devices yet, so I can't
        > report on that myself.)
        >
        > Harold J. Johnson
        > http://SomethingthatHappened.com
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Pete Prodoehl
        ... While I don t want to get too deep into the debate (I have neither device, I still use an old Rio) to me it would come down to the user experience. Does
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
          Harold Johnson wrote:
          > Cute, but where's the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price
          > range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
          > more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
          > playing digital music or the included FM radio):
          >
          > http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/
          >
          > vs.
          >
          > http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
          >
          > iRivers also play WMA and the open source OGG format in addition to
          > MP3. AAC is alright, but I only use it when I'm buying music through
          > iTunes, which I haven't done since getting into podcasting.
          >
          > Additionally, according to consumer reports, iRivers also have better
          > sound than iPods, though that will always be subjective. (I also
          > haven't heard the sound on the iPod Shuffle devices yet, so I can't
          > report on that myself.)

          While I don't want to get too deep into the debate (I have neither
          device, I still use an old Rio) to me it would come down to the user
          experience. Does the iRiver work with iTunes? Does it sync with iTunes
          playlists? Will the iRiver work with iTunes in the future?

          I ask these because I've been manually managing podcast-type content for
          more than a year with the Rio, and it's a pain. I'd love an iPod, as it
          would cut at least 5 minutes of my day manually loading the Rio, will
          the iRiver do this as well?

          Pete
        • geek
          I think it would be wise of the developers of teh Podcatcher clinets to read the following article.. http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1440/ Todd...
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
            I think it would be wise of the developers of teh Podcatcher clinets to read
            the following article..

            http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/1440/

            Todd...
          • Nicole Simon
            ... The Iriver supports playlist and works together with the media player afaik but I am not sure about itunes, i asmune not as apple claims their property.
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
              Pete Prodoehl <pete@...> wrote:
              >I ask these because I've been manually managing podcast-type content for
              >more than a year with the Rio, and it's a pain. I'd love an iPod, as it
              >would cut at least 5 minutes of my day manually loading the Rio, will
              >the iRiver do this as well?

              The Iriver supports playlist and works together with the media player afaik
              but I am not sure about itunes, i asmune not as apple claims their
              property.



              There seems to be one feature, which itunes has and which I find critical
              to everything: A playlist count. (I have not tested this agains my new
              iriver h320 with the count)

              Nicole

              --
              podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
              blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
            • Peter Ker
              From the prices on that webpage it seems the iriver is more expensive than the ipod shuffle. I want one hehehehehehehe, guess my irock will go back on ebay ;-)
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
                From the prices on that webpage it seems the iriver is
                more expensive than the ipod shuffle. I want one
                hehehehehehehe, guess my irock will go back on ebay
                ;-)

                As to the sound differences, moot point for me, very
                loud work environment(surrounded by air tools) so
                little chance of discerning minor differences in
                quality.

                Skennen Peace

                =====
                http://www.geocities.com/bearclanmohawk
                http://www.cafepress.com/ohkwari



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              • Peter Ker
                Kwe Kwe Hello Pete, I have an iRock(myirock.com $24.99 refurb ) 520 and it works well with iTunes EXCEPT for AAC support, it s only got a meager 64 meg or
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
                  Kwe Kwe Hello Pete, I have an iRock(myirock.com $24.99
                  refurb ) 520 and it works well with iTunes EXCEPT for
                  AAC support, it's only got a meager 64 meg or space
                  and uses Smartmedia thats limited to 128 meg more but
                  DIRT CHEAP ;-) sounds pretty good to my deaf ears tho,
                  listened to some podcasts on it this morning.

                  One seemed like 2 guys just having a conversation,
                  hope their other shows aren't similar, wasn't
                  impressed with their show, finally killed it after 20
                  minutes or so blathering on about a butt plug shaped
                  mic.

                  O:nen ki' wahi' Bye for now

                  =====
                  http://www.geocities.com/bearclanmohawk
                  http://www.cafepress.com/ohkwari



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                • Harold Johnson
                  ... Yeah, that was the first thing I looked for. I thought maybe I was overlooking it or something, but nope - it doesn t have one. Perhaps they didn t
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
                    On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:52:22 -0600, Steve Dembo <sdembo@...> wrote:

                    > And on the same subject, the new Apple Mini doesn't even have an
                    > audio-in jack. You would think that Apple would be going out their
                    > way to SUPPORT podcasting, not make it more difficult!

                    Yeah, that was the first thing I looked for. I thought maybe I was
                    overlooking it or something, but nope - it doesn't have one. Perhaps
                    they didn't include it because they want you to plug in another device
                    to get sound in, such as a breakout box. Have they announced a
                    breakout box?

                    In any case, there are a number of solution available to get your
                    audio in, many of which are better-sounding than the analog sound-in
                    port, anyway. One example is Griffin's iMic, which allows you to plug
                    in a variety of audio devices to your Mac's USB port. Still, you have
                    to spend more mula...

                    Harold
                  • Harold Johnson
                    Yeah, I don t want to get too deep into any debate about Apple s products, either. I love Apple, but I m in love with the iRiver, too. I feel it s a
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
                      Yeah, I don't want to get too deep into any debate about Apple's
                      products, either. I love Apple, but I'm in love with the iRiver, too.
                      I feel it's a higher-quality product than the iPod devices I've seen,
                      and that includes my first response to this new iPod.

                      Now ask me if I want one. Of course - as a listener. As a podcaster,
                      however, I prefer the iRiver because I want to be able to record
                      on-the-fly from wherever I am as easily as possible. No attached
                      accessories, you know? If I had to choose to own one flash-based
                      device, either an iPod or an iRiver, I'd go with the iRiver.

                      Harold

                      On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:52:54 -0600, Pete Prodoehl <pete@...> wrote:
                      > Harold Johnson wrote:
                      >
                      > > Cute, but where's the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price
                      > > range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
                      > > more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
                      > > playing digital music or the included FM radio):
                      > >
                      > > http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/
                      > >
                      > > vs.
                      > >
                      > > http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
                      > >
                      > > iRivers also play WMA and the open source OGG format in addition to
                      > > MP3. AAC is alright, but I only use it when I'm buying music through
                      > > iTunes, which I haven't done since getting into podcasting.
                      > >
                      > > Additionally, according to consumer reports, iRivers also have better
                      > > sound than iPods, though that will always be subjective. (I also
                      > > haven't heard the sound on the iPod Shuffle devices yet, so I can't
                      > > report on that myself.)
                      >
                      > While I don't want to get too deep into the debate (I have neither
                      > device, I still use an old Rio) to me it would come down to the user
                      > experience. Does the iRiver work with iTunes? Does it sync with iTunes
                      > playlists? Will the iRiver work with iTunes in the future?
                      >
                      > I ask these because I've been manually managing podcast-type content for
                      > more than a year with the Rio, and it's a pain. I'd love an iPod, as it
                      > would cut at least 5 minutes of my day manually loading the Rio, will
                      > the iRiver do this as well?
                      >
                      > Pete
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • Steve Dembo
                      Definitely more mula, and then you start with the clutter. Here s what I was thinking when I first saw it... The Mini sits on the rack with my stereo
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 11, 2005
                        Definitely more mula, and then you start with the clutter. Here's
                        what I was thinking when I first saw it... The Mini sits on the rack
                        with my stereo equipment. The video out goes to my HDTV. I have a
                        bluetooth keyboard and mouse near the sofa. At the most, I have a
                        microphone plugged into it, but otherwise, I keep the whole thing
                        really clean. No visible wires at all.

                        Once you start adding in the iMic for sound, and another USB device
                        for video in (to get Tivo capabilities), it starts getting more
                        expensive and... we... messier.

                        *sighs*
                        I hate being disappointed by new Mac products. Combine that with
                        another delay for the Motorola MPX300 and it's been a bummer of a geek
                        day.


                        On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:21:37 -0800, Harold Johnson
                        <harold.johnson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:52:22 -0600, Steve Dembo <sdembo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > And on the same subject, the new Apple Mini doesn't even have an
                        > > audio-in jack. You would think that Apple would be going out their
                        > > way to SUPPORT podcasting, not make it more difficult!
                        >
                        > Yeah, that was the first thing I looked for. I thought maybe I was
                        > overlooking it or something, but nope - it doesn't have one. Perhaps
                        > they didn't include it because they want you to plug in another device
                        > to get sound in, such as a breakout box. Have they announced a
                        > breakout box?
                        >
                        > In any case, there are a number of solution available to get your
                        > audio in, many of which are better-sounding than the analog sound-in
                        > port, anyway. One example is Griffin's iMic, which allows you to plug
                        > in a variety of audio devices to your Mac's USB port. Still, you have
                        > to spend more mula...
                        >
                        > Harold
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Les Posen
                        ... This is the second post comparing your iRiver to an iPod of whatever sort, and you seem to be coming from a very podcast-centric view point. I have some
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                          On 12/01/2005, at 9:14 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:

                          > Cute, but where's the recorder(s)?  iRiver devices in the same price
                          > range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
                          > more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
                          > playing digital music or the included FM radio):
                          >
                          > http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/
                          >
                          > vs.
                          >
                          > http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
                          >


                          This is the second post comparing your iRiver to an iPod of whatever
                          sort, and you seem to be coming from a very podcast-centric view point.

                          I have some news for you. Apple didn't make these things for podcast
                          making or listening specifically. Funny about that, huh? Podcasting,
                          taking its name from a product that saw Apple hit record profits, isn't
                          a blip on Apple's screen (if it has one!).

                          And guess what? They will sell millions of these things, podcasts or no
                          podcasts.

                          I have blogged that I expect I'll use it to listen to podcasts and IT
                          conversations I place into a playlist of my creation. Yes, before I
                          leave the house for my walk I will need to know what order I have
                          placed the latest ones downloaded overnight. And I'll have to do a
                          little work here to make the Shuffle fit me, and not the other way
                          around.

                          For all I know, some smart third party will see an opportunity to
                          develop a USB add-on screen, and I predict a huge ecosystem of
                          accessories for this beastie *because* it seems so "closed" - at the
                          moment.

                          That said, the iRiver is probably one of the best of its breed, and
                          languishing in the shadows of the iPod despite its competencies, and in
                          some domains, besting the iPod. It doesn't have the third party support
                          the iPod has, and there-in lies its fate.

                          With respect to the mac mini not having an audio in, how much is the
                          Griffin iMic? $35 or so...? Digital quality (24bit?) in and out...
                          it'll do.

                          How soon before DJ's start walking around with these things to gigs
                          with rollup key boards, mini bluetooth mice, and tiny projectors as I
                          saw at CES from infocus? Instead of expensive laptops...

                          I'm afraid you have a little more to learn about Apple branding,
                          philosophy and marketing before you can so easily write off a new
                          product within a hugely successful range. And is the iRiver with all
                          the features you described truly USD99?

                          Les



                          ----------


                          Fear of Flying Therapies
                          Melbourne Australia - 0413 040 747

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jake Ludington
                          ... Not to point out the obvious here, but even if the iMic were free, with no audio in on the Mac Mini, where exactly are you going to connect it? ... As
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Les Posen [mailto:lesposen@...]
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:40 AM
                            > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [podcasters] Shuffle This
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On 12/01/2005, at 9:14 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:
                            > With respect to the mac mini not having an audio in, how much is the
                            > Griffin iMic? $35 or so...? Digital quality (24bit?) in and out...
                            > it'll do.

                            Not to point out the obvious here, but even if the iMic were free, with no
                            audio in on the Mac Mini, where exactly are you going to connect it?

                            >
                            > How soon before DJ's start walking around with these things to gigs
                            > with rollup key boards, mini bluetooth mice, and tiny projectors as I
                            > saw at CES from infocus? Instead of expensive laptops...

                            As someone who has to pack up gear and do audio at remote locations, there
                            is no way I would ever replace an all-in-one keyboard/mouse/monitor/computer
                            (i.e. a laptop) with 5 individual pieces and requisite connection
                            requirements (wireless or otherwise). It increases the odds of losing
                            something by a factor I wouldn't want to count on.

                            And before anyone calls the Mac Mini inexpensive, I'd recommend doing a
                            config on the Apple Store to see how much it costs to get an Airport
                            card/Superdrive/RAM added. To get a machine that's functional for intensive
                            audio and video, you'll need to spend $1200 not $499. It's still a cool
                            product at a decent price, but the $499 is *very* misleading.

                            Jake Ludington
                            http://www.jakeludington.com
                          • Les Posen
                            ... Probably one of the two USB 2.0 ports on the rear, unless you have a better idea? Might have to invest in USB hub if you want to add keyboard/mouse if not
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                              On 13/01/2005, at 8:14 PM, Jake Ludington wrote:

                              > > On 12/01/2005, at 9:14 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:
                              > > With respect to the mac mini not having an audio in, how much is the
                              > > Griffin iMic? $35 or so...? Digital quality (24bit?) in and out...
                              > > it'll do.
                              >
                              > Not to point out the obvious here, but even if the iMic were free,
                              > with no
                              > audio in on the Mac Mini, where exactly are you going to connect it?

                              Probably one of the two USB 2.0 ports on the rear, unless you have a
                              better idea?

                              Might have to invest in USB hub if you want to add keyboard/mouse if
                              not going the bluetooth way.

                              >
                              > As someone who has to pack up gear and do audio at remote locations,
                              > there
                              > is no way I would ever replace an all-in-one
                              > keyboard/mouse/monitor/computer
                              > (i.e. a laptop) with 5 individual pieces and requisite connection
                              > requirements (wireless or otherwise). It increases the odds of losing
                              > something by a factor I wouldn't want to count on.

                              Agreed. Laptop remains king in this domain. But as a very small backup
                              solution (apart from an iPod or iRiver ;-) it's got something going for
                              it, I think...

                              >
                              > And before anyone calls the Mac Mini inexpensive, I'd recommend doing
                              > a
                              > config on the Apple Store to see how much it costs to get an Airport
                              > card/Superdrive/RAM added. To get a machine that's functional for
                              > intensive
                              > audio and video, you'll need to spend $1200 not $499. It's still a
                              > cool
                              > product at a decent price, but the $499 is *very* misleading.

                              Somehow, I don't think it's intended to be used for intensive audio and
                              video, nor is a $999 iBook.

                              If you have a USB keyboard, a used monitor sitting around, a two-button
                              mouse, you're in business. . For a straight-forward $499. (or I bet you
                              could go on eBay or a local store and find these for $100 tops
                              altogether.) Expect to use it as a main machine to replace your Windows
                              box? Then expect to pony up for extra RAM at least. What's the
                              purchase price and subscription rate for Zone Alarm, Ad Aware and
                              Norton Anti-virus (or whatever combo of choice that performs the same
                              function) that will keep your PC free from the nasties? And factor in
                              your time per week to perform these maintenance tweaks and weekly
                              security updates. I think that might afford you the extra RAM in a
                              once-off purchase.

                              And I fear we are straining away from podcasting, 'cos I can't find a
                              neat segue back in!

                              Les


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Harold Johnson
                              ... Well, we _are_ in the _podcasters_ discussion group... Harold
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:39:55 +1100, Les Posen <lesposen@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > On 12/01/2005, at 9:14 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:
                                >
                                > > Cute, but where's the recorder(s)? iRiver devices in the same price
                                > > range includes mic recording, FM recording, and line-in recording, and
                                > > more hours of battery life (from 17-40, depending on whether you're
                                > > playing digital music or the included FM radio):
                                > >
                                > > http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/
                                > >
                                > > vs.
                                > >
                                > > http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > This is the second post comparing your iRiver to an iPod of whatever
                                > sort, and you seem to be coming from a very podcast-centric view point.

                                Well, we _are_ in the _podcasters_ discussion group...

                                Harold
                              • Les Posen
                                ... Clever, but obfuscating. Les [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                  On 14/01/2005, at 5:19 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:

                                  > > 
                                  > >  This is the second post comparing your iRiver to an iPod of
                                  > whatever
                                  > >  sort, and you seem to be coming from a very podcast-centric view
                                  > point.
                                  >
                                  > Well, we _are_ in the _podcasters_ discussion group...
                                  >
                                  > Harold
                                  >

                                  Clever, but obfuscating.

                                  Les


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Les Posen
                                  ... Harold, I already replied to your post, but you original comparison post was used over on a david coursey comments page, where he discusses the uselessness
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                    On 14/01/2005, at 5:19 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:
                                    > > 
                                    > >  This is the second post comparing your iRiver to an iPod of
                                    > whatever
                                    > >  sort, and you seem to be coming from a very podcast-centric view
                                    > point.
                                    >
                                    > Well, we _are_ in the _podcasters_ discussion group...
                                    >
                                    > Harold
                                    >


                                    Harold,

                                    I already replied to your post, but you original comparison post was
                                    used over on a david coursey comments page, where he discusses the
                                    uselessness of the minimac in the enterprise market. As is often the
                                    case, he's probably right for all the wrong reasons.

                                    Here's the response:

                                    <<<# re: Mac mini Won't Drive Big Enterprise Sales
                                    John S. Rhodes
                                    Posted @ 1/13/2005 12:00 PM
                                    "Turn any iPod into an iPod Shuffle in 3 easy steps"

                                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mhusson/3253841/

                                    ...and...

                                    "Shuffle This"

                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/message/1250 >>>


                                    Yep, that's your message. Since it has gone beyond this list, I thought
                                    I'd do a little research.

                                    I actually went to the link you offered for iRiver Ultra. I suggest
                                    others go looking too...

                                    The ONLY iRiver I found for $99 was the iFP-180T here:

                                    <<http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/100/ifp_180t.aspx>>

                                    Let's compare specs shall we?

                                    1. iRiver capacity - 128MB
                                    iPod shuffle - 512MB

                                    Hmm... not a good start

                                    2. USB connection:
                                    iRiver - USB 1.1;
                                    iPod Shuffle - USB 2.0

                                    Not improving Harold.

                                    3. Weight: iRiver with 1 AA battery - twice as heavy as the iPod
                                    Shuffle. (it's under an ounce)

                                    They're both lightweight, so is OK.

                                    4. Dimensions:

                                    iRiver (mm): 80 x 32 x 35
                                    iPod shuffle (in): 3.3 x .98 x .33 (=mm: 84 x 25 x 8.3)
                                    do the math - the iPod is considerably smaller in volume.

                                    5. Connectivity:

                                    iRiver - you need a USB cable to shlep around with you
                                    iPod Shuffle: use its USB connector to plug straight in.

                                    6. File types (from respective websites):

                                    iRiver: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps) , WMA, and ASF

                                    iPod shuffle: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, AAC (8 to 320 Kbps),
                                    Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store, M4A, M4B, M4P), Audible
                                    (formats 2, 3, and 4) and WAV; Upgradable firmware enables support for
                                    future audio formats

                                    7. Accessories

                                    iRiver: ?
                                    iPod Shuffle: AAA battery extender; dock; armband; likely third party
                                    explosion of accessories (mic. likely to happen, since it exists for
                                    the iPod range).

                                    8. iRiver advantages:

                                    FM recordable radio, mic. input.

                                    Considering its small capacity of 128MB, and unpublished spec re.
                                    recording file sizes, it's unknown how many wma files, and voice
                                    recordings it will hold simultaneously.

                                    Belkin makes an FM add-on for the iPod. Griffin cancelled their's.

                                    It seems there is not a huge market for iPod users wanting FM add-ons.
                                    People seem content for it to do its principle job better than most.

                                    If built-in FM radio is important enough, one forgoes the iPod in any
                                    of its current forms.


                                    So there you have it.

                                    Oh, and of course, the "missing screen". Probably a deal breaker for
                                    many. Millions more non-podcasters/listeners will learn to live without
                                    it.

                                    Les
                                  • Harold Johnson
                                    Hi Les, I want to tell you that I really appreciate your engaging me in this conversation. I m being sincere; it s nice to have someone take the time, as it
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                      Hi Les,

                                      I want to tell you that I really appreciate your engaging me in this
                                      conversation. I'm being sincere; it's nice to have someone take the
                                      time, as it appears you have, to think about and respond to my
                                      comments (which I also often take a great deal of time to compose).

                                      That said, I want to point out that I've already admitted that the
                                      iRiver with more or less comparable features costs a bit more:

                                      > You got me there. The iRiver's MSRP is tiny bit pricier, but no much,
                                      > especially when you factor in the rebates you'll regularly find at
                                      > retailers like Best Buy. (I ended up saving approx. $30 off the
                                      > retail price after the Best Buy and iRiver rebates.)

                                      > Still, I'd pay the extra few to get the recording capabilities alone.
                                      > How much are you going to pay to get a recorder for the iPod?

                                      That was my response to deeje two days ago.

                                      My point was, and still is, that I would pay a little bit more to buy
                                      what I see as a much better device, the iRiver. I've already listed
                                      some of my reasons; to that list I'll add the fact that it has some
                                      excellent audio-enhancing features, such as the 5-band equalizer and
                                      the 3D equalizer, both of which are easily managed via the gorgeous
                                      graphic LCD (which supports 40 languages). My particular iRiver,
                                      which costs somewhere around $120 after rebates, also handles both MP3
                                      and MP3 VBR files, WMA, OGG, and ASF formats. Since the firmware can
                                      always be upgraded, who knows what future formats it will also be able
                                      to handle?

                                      It also supports USB 2.0, and as for accessories, the device also
                                      included a carrying case, an armband, and a neckstrap.

                                      Because of the differences in features, however, I think we're talking
                                      about the differences between apples and oranges here. Both are
                                      worthy contenders for Fruit of the Gods (or at least Fruit of the
                                      Loom), and each have their advocates. Me, I like to consume both - I
                                      prefer orange juice to apple juice, yet apple pie to orange pie. So
                                      there you go.

                                      Harold J. Johnson
                                      http://audioblogs.info

                                      On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:59:16 +1100, Les Posen <lesposen@...> wrote:

                                      > Harold,
                                      >
                                      > I already replied to your post, but you original comparison post was
                                      > used over on a david coursey comments page, where he discusses the
                                      > uselessness of the minimac in the enterprise market. As is often the
                                      > case, he's probably right for all the wrong reasons.
                                      >
                                      > Here's the response:
                                      >
                                      > <<<# re: Mac mini Won't Drive Big Enterprise Sales
                                      > John S. Rhodes
                                      > Posted @ 1/13/2005 12:00 PM
                                      > "Turn any iPod into an iPod Shuffle in 3 easy steps"
                                      >
                                      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mhusson/3253841/
                                      >
                                      > ...and...
                                      >
                                      > "Shuffle This"
                                      >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/message/1250 >>>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yep, that's your message. Since it has gone beyond this list, I thought
                                      > I'd do a little research.
                                      >
                                      > I actually went to the link you offered for iRiver Ultra. I suggest
                                      > others go looking too...
                                      >
                                      > The ONLY iRiver I found for $99 was the iFP-180T here:
                                      >
                                      > <<http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/100/ifp_180t.aspx>>
                                      >
                                      > Let's compare specs shall we?
                                      >
                                      > 1. iRiver capacity - 128MB
                                      > iPod shuffle - 512MB
                                      >
                                      > Hmm... not a good start
                                      >
                                      > 2. USB connection:
                                      > iRiver - USB 1.1;
                                      > iPod Shuffle - USB 2.0
                                      >
                                      > Not improving Harold.
                                      >
                                      > 3. Weight: iRiver with 1 AA battery - twice as heavy as the iPod
                                      > Shuffle. (it's under an ounce)
                                      >
                                      > They're both lightweight, so is OK.
                                      >
                                      > 4. Dimensions:
                                      >
                                      > iRiver (mm): 80 x 32 x 35
                                      > iPod shuffle (in): 3.3 x .98 x .33 (=mm: 84 x 25 x 8.3)
                                      > do the math - the iPod is considerably smaller in volume.
                                      >
                                      > 5. Connectivity:
                                      >
                                      > iRiver - you need a USB cable to shlep around with you
                                      > iPod Shuffle: use its USB connector to plug straight in.
                                      >
                                      > 6. File types (from respective websites):
                                      >
                                      > iRiver: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps) , WMA, and ASF
                                      >
                                      > iPod shuffle: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, AAC (8 to 320 Kbps),
                                      > Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store, M4A, M4B, M4P), Audible
                                      > (formats 2, 3, and 4) and WAV; Upgradable firmware enables support for
                                      > future audio formats
                                      >
                                      > 7. Accessories
                                      >
                                      > iRiver: ?
                                      > iPod Shuffle: AAA battery extender; dock; armband; likely third party
                                      > explosion of accessories (mic. likely to happen, since it exists for
                                      > the iPod range).
                                      >
                                      > 8. iRiver advantages:
                                      >
                                      > FM recordable radio, mic. input.
                                      >
                                      > Considering its small capacity of 128MB, and unpublished spec re.
                                      > recording file sizes, it's unknown how many wma files, and voice
                                      > recordings it will hold simultaneously.
                                      >
                                      > Belkin makes an FM add-on for the iPod. Griffin cancelled their's.
                                      >
                                      > It seems there is not a huge market for iPod users wanting FM add-ons.
                                      > People seem content for it to do its principle job better than most.
                                      >
                                      > If built-in FM radio is important enough, one forgoes the iPod in any
                                      > of its current forms.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > So there you have it.
                                      >
                                      > Oh, and of course, the "missing screen". Probably a deal breaker for
                                      > many. Millions more non-podcasters/listeners will learn to live without
                                      > it.
                                      >
                                      > Les
                                    • Craig Patchett
                                      Here s the most important question guys. The same argument over worthiness against the competition came up a year ago (or whenever) when the iPod mini was
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                        Here's the most important question guys. The same argument over
                                        worthiness against the competition came up a year ago (or whenever)
                                        when the iPod mini was introduced. And yet in the past year, according
                                        to the numbers Apple released on Monday, Apple has almost doubled its
                                        share of the MP3 player market (total market, including flash
                                        players), from something like 34% to something like 66%. So we can sit
                                        here and argue forever over which device has more features for the
                                        money, but obviously there are other factors that are driving
                                        consumers to the iPod beyond that. Right now the big question is
                                        whether or not the lack of a screen is going to make a difference, not
                                        whether price, lack of recording capability, lack of FM receiver, etc.
                                        will.

                                        And it's not whether it will make a difference to anyone posting to
                                        this group that matters either, but whether it will make a difference
                                        to the average consumer. So go show the Shuffle to your non-technical
                                        friends and see what they think, and whether they care whether or not
                                        it has a screen. (Just make sure you tell them how they just plug it
                                        into the USB slot and it syncs automatically, will randomly fill up
                                        with a fresh mix of songs or a playlist they select, or a SMART
                                        playlist they define.) I think you might be surprised at their answer.

                                        Craig

                                        *******************

                                        Craig Patchett
                                        The GodCast Network

                                        "Behind the Scenes", the podcast for podcasters: http://tinyurl.com/4rvzp
                                      • Les Posen
                                        On 14/01/2005, at 12:25 PM, Craig Patchett wrote: ... I won t. Les PS. recorded my second podcast with Anthony Caruana ( The PDA Guy ) re CES/MacWorld
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                          On 14/01/2005, at 12:25 PM, Craig Patchett wrote:

                                          ... lotsa snipping....

                                          >
                                          > And it's not whether it will make a difference to anyone posting to
                                          > this group that matters either, but whether it will make a difference
                                          > to the average consumer. So go show the Shuffle to your non-technical
                                          > friends and see what they think, and whether they care whether or not
                                          > it has a screen. (Just make sure you tell them how they just plug it
                                          > into the USB slot and it syncs automatically, will randomly fill up
                                          > with a fresh mix of songs or a playlist they select, or a SMART
                                          > playlist they define.) I think you might be surprised at their answer.
                                          >
                                          > Craig
                                          >


                                          I won't.

                                          Les

                                          PS. recorded my second podcast with Anthony Caruana ("The PDA Guy") re
                                          CES/MacWorld observation - first hand in the case of the former, and
                                          will post today. Just to have listen harder to understand Strine.


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Les Posen
                                          ... Sure. Your thinking is one that challenged me to rebut; especially when your comment left the list for other pastures. It helps refine my own thoughts...
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                            On 14/01/2005, at 11:10 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:

                                            > Hi Les,
                                            >
                                            > I want to tell you that I really appreciate your engaging me in this
                                            > conversation.  I'm being sincere; it's nice to have someone take the
                                            > time, as it appears you have, to think about and respond to my
                                            > comments (which I also often take a great deal of time to compose).
                                            >

                                            Sure. Your thinking is one that challenged me to rebut; especially when
                                            your comment left the list for other pastures.

                                            It helps refine my own thoughts...


                                            > Because of the differences in features, however, I think we're talking
                                            > about the differences between apples and oranges here.  Both are
                                            > worthy contenders for Fruit of the Gods (or at least Fruit of the
                                            > Loom), and each have their advocates.  Me, I like to consume both - I
                                            > prefer orange juice to apple juice, yet apple pie to orange pie.  So
                                            > there you go.
                                            >


                                            And while I enjoy grapefruit juice, it's contraindictated in large
                                            doses with medication I take. So it must be consumed with thought and
                                            consideration.

                                            That said, more views from analysts at Merril-Lynch:

                                            " (Steven) Milunovich dismissed the notion that consumers will balk at
                                            the lack of a display on the iPod shuffle. "Some have indicated that
                                            the lack of a display will be an issue, but we are less concerned," he
                                            said. "The $99 version holds 120 songs and the $149 holds 240--does one
                                            really need a display with that few songs? We believe this is a better
                                            option than a 60-song version with a display for $149. If a display is
                                            need then one needs to move up to he HDD iPods at $249+. We believe
                                            this also ensures that cannibalization will be limited while snaring
                                            more in the iTune/iPod net."

                                            <http://www.ipodlounge.com/ipodnews_comments.php?id=6097_0_7_0_C>

                                            Best

                                            Les


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Harold Johnson
                                            ... Les, do you happen to have the URL for that? I haven t been able to locate it and I d like to see how it s been used... Harold
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                              On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:52:58 +1100, Les Posen <lesposen@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > On 14/01/2005, at 11:10 AM, Harold Johnson wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Hi Les,
                                              > >
                                              > > I want to tell you that I really appreciate your engaging me in this
                                              > > conversation. I'm being sincere; it's nice to have someone take the
                                              > > time, as it appears you have, to think about and respond to my
                                              > > comments (which I also often take a great deal of time to compose).
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > Sure. Your thinking is one that challenged me to rebut; especially when
                                              > your comment left the list for other pastures.

                                              Les, do you happen to have the URL for that? I haven't been able to
                                              locate it and I'd like to see how it's been used...

                                              Harold
                                            • Les Posen
                                              ... http://blog.ziffdavis.com/coursey/archive/2005/01/13/5424.aspx and scroll down to the 5th feedback comment Les [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
                                                On 14/01/2005, at 5:02 PM, Harold Johnson wrote:

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Les, do you happen to have the URL for that?  I haven't been able to
                                                > locate it and I'd like to see how it's been used...
                                                >
                                                > Harold
                                                >

                                                http://blog.ziffdavis.com/coursey/archive/2005/01/13/5424.aspx


                                                and scroll down to the 5th feedback comment

                                                Les


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • AG
                                                Hi, all I just happened across a great deal on a new iRiver 180T ($35 after a $20 mail-in rebate). I ve heard such good things from various podcasters about
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                  Hi, all

                                                  I just happened across a great deal on a new iRiver 180T ($35 after a
                                                  $20 mail-in rebate). I've heard such good things from various
                                                  podcasters about recording on the iRiver I thought I'd give it a try,
                                                  at that price.

                                                  It just arrived. I'm just learning how to use it (as with all portable
                                                  MP3 players, the usability sucks). however, so far I'm underwhelmed
                                                  with the recording quality from the built-in mic.

                                                  I'll keep playing with it, but I'm wondering -- can the iRiver 180T
                                                  take an external mic through the headphone jack? The product page
                                                  isn't clear on that:
                                                  - http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/100/ifp_180t.aspx

                                                  I found an old posting on this list which compared an iPod Shuffle to
                                                  an iRiver 180T (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/message/1332)
                                                  and it mentioned...

                                                  > 8. iRiver advantages:
                                                  > FM recordable radio, mic. input.

                                                  Can anyone clear this up for me? Can I use an external mic with the
                                                  iRiver 180T? If so, what kind?

                                                  Thanks,

                                                  - Amy Gahran



                                                  --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Harold Johnson
                                                  <harold.johnson@g...> wrote:
                                                  > Hi Les,
                                                  >
                                                  > I want to tell you that I really appreciate your engaging me in this
                                                  > conversation. I'm being sincere; it's nice to have someone take the
                                                  > time, as it appears you have, to think about and respond to my
                                                  > comments (which I also often take a great deal of time to compose).
                                                  >
                                                  > That said, I want to point out that I've already admitted that the
                                                  > iRiver with more or less comparable features costs a bit more:
                                                  >
                                                  > > You got me there. The iRiver's MSRP is tiny bit pricier, but no much,
                                                  > > especially when you factor in the rebates you'll regularly find at
                                                  > > retailers like Best Buy. (I ended up saving approx. $30 off the
                                                  > > retail price after the Best Buy and iRiver rebates.)
                                                  >
                                                  > > Still, I'd pay the extra few to get the recording capabilities alone.
                                                  > > How much are you going to pay to get a recorder for the iPod?
                                                  >
                                                  > That was my response to deeje two days ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > My point was, and still is, that I would pay a little bit more to buy
                                                  > what I see as a much better device, the iRiver. I've already listed
                                                  > some of my reasons; to that list I'll add the fact that it has some
                                                  > excellent audio-enhancing features, such as the 5-band equalizer and
                                                  > the 3D equalizer, both of which are easily managed via the gorgeous
                                                  > graphic LCD (which supports 40 languages). My particular iRiver,
                                                  > which costs somewhere around $120 after rebates, also handles both MP3
                                                  > and MP3 VBR files, WMA, OGG, and ASF formats. Since the firmware can
                                                  > always be upgraded, who knows what future formats it will also be able
                                                  > to handle?
                                                  >
                                                  > It also supports USB 2.0, and as for accessories, the device also
                                                  > included a carrying case, an armband, and a neckstrap.
                                                  >
                                                  > Because of the differences in features, however, I think we're talking
                                                  > about the differences between apples and oranges here. Both are
                                                  > worthy contenders for Fruit of the Gods (or at least Fruit of the
                                                  > Loom), and each have their advocates. Me, I like to consume both - I
                                                  > prefer orange juice to apple juice, yet apple pie to orange pie. So
                                                  > there you go.
                                                  >
                                                  > Harold J. Johnson
                                                  > http://audioblogs.info
                                                  >
                                                  > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:59:16 +1100, Les Posen <lesposen@m...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > Harold,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I already replied to your post, but you original comparison post was
                                                  > > used over on a david coursey comments page, where he discusses the
                                                  > > uselessness of the minimac in the enterprise market. As is often the
                                                  > > case, he's probably right for all the wrong reasons.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Here's the response:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > <<<# re: Mac mini Won't Drive Big Enterprise Sales
                                                  > > John S. Rhodes
                                                  > > Posted @ 1/13/2005 12:00 PM
                                                  > > "Turn any iPod into an iPod Shuffle in 3 easy steps"
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/mhusson/3253841/
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ...and...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > "Shuffle This"
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/message/1250 >>>
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yep, that's your message. Since it has gone beyond this list, I
                                                  thought
                                                  > > I'd do a little research.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I actually went to the link you offered for iRiver Ultra. I suggest
                                                  > > others go looking too...
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The ONLY iRiver I found for $99 was the iFP-180T here:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > <<http://iriveramerica.com/prod/ultra/100/ifp_180t.aspx>>
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Let's compare specs shall we?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 1. iRiver capacity - 128MB
                                                  > > iPod shuffle - 512MB
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hmm... not a good start
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 2. USB connection:
                                                  > > iRiver - USB 1.1;
                                                  > > iPod Shuffle - USB 2.0
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Not improving Harold.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 3. Weight: iRiver with 1 AA battery - twice as heavy as the iPod
                                                  > > Shuffle. (it's under an ounce)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > They're both lightweight, so is OK.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 4. Dimensions:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > iRiver (mm): 80 x 32 x 35
                                                  > > iPod shuffle (in): 3.3 x .98 x .33 (=mm: 84 x 25 x 8.3)
                                                  > > do the math - the iPod is considerably smaller in volume.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 5. Connectivity:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > iRiver - you need a USB cable to shlep around with you
                                                  > > iPod Shuffle: use its USB connector to plug straight in.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 6. File types (from respective websites):
                                                  > >
                                                  > > iRiver: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps) , WMA, and ASF
                                                  > >
                                                  > > iPod shuffle: MP3 (8 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, AAC (8 to 320 Kbps),
                                                  > > Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store, M4A, M4B, M4P), Audible
                                                  > > (formats 2, 3, and 4) and WAV; Upgradable firmware enables
                                                  support for
                                                  > > future audio formats
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 7. Accessories
                                                  > >
                                                  > > iRiver: ?
                                                  > > iPod Shuffle: AAA battery extender; dock; armband; likely third
                                                  party
                                                  > > explosion of accessories (mic. likely to happen, since it exists for
                                                  > > the iPod range).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > 8. iRiver advantages:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > FM recordable radio, mic. input.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Considering its small capacity of 128MB, and unpublished spec re.
                                                  > > recording file sizes, it's unknown how many wma files, and voice
                                                  > > recordings it will hold simultaneously.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Belkin makes an FM add-on for the iPod. Griffin cancelled their's.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It seems there is not a huge market for iPod users wanting FM
                                                  add-ons.
                                                  > > People seem content for it to do its principle job better than most.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > If built-in FM radio is important enough, one forgoes the iPod in
                                                  any
                                                  > > of its current forms.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > So there you have it.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Oh, and of course, the "missing screen". Probably a deal breaker for
                                                  > > many. Millions more non-podcasters/listeners will learn to live
                                                  without
                                                  > > it.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Les
                                                • Matt May
                                                  ... The iRiver site (specifically, the Ask iRiver link) says no: The following iFP (flash) players support the analog line-in recording feature: * iFP-999 *
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                    On Apr 4, 2005 1:20 PM, AG <agahran@...> wrote:
                                                    > Can anyone clear this up for me? Can I use an external mic with the
                                                    > iRiver 180T? If so, what kind?

                                                    The iRiver site (specifically, the Ask iRiver link) says no:

                                                    The following iFP (flash) players support the analog line-in recording feature:

                                                    * iFP-999
                                                    * iFP-995
                                                    * iFP-990
                                                    * iFP-899
                                                    * iFP-895
                                                    * iFP-890
                                                    * iFP-880

                                                    Hmm. So the iFP-7xx series doesn't? Curious.

                                                    -
                                                    m
                                                  • Gregory Narain
                                                    I have like 9 790 devices and they all have a line in.. I think they discontinued the line so they don t list it anymore.. which seems silly. g ... [Non-text
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                      I have like 9 790 devices and they all have a line in..

                                                      I think they discontinued the line so they don't list it anymore.. which
                                                      seems silly.

                                                      g

                                                      Matt May wrote:

                                                      >On Apr 4, 2005 1:20 PM, AG <agahran@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >> Can anyone clear this up for me? Can I use an external mic with the
                                                      >> iRiver 180T? If so, what kind?
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >The iRiver site (specifically, the Ask iRiver link) says no:
                                                      >
                                                      > The following iFP (flash) players support the analog line-in recording feature:
                                                      >
                                                      > * iFP-999
                                                      > * iFP-995
                                                      > * iFP-990
                                                      > * iFP-899
                                                      > * iFP-895
                                                      > * iFP-890
                                                      > * iFP-880
                                                      >
                                                      >Hmm. So the iFP-7xx series doesn't? Curious.
                                                      >
                                                      >-
                                                      >m
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >



                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • AG
                                                      ... Ah, bummer... Thanks.... - Amy Gahran
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                        > The iRiver site (specifically, the Ask iRiver link) says no:

                                                        Ah, bummer... Thanks....

                                                        - Amy Gahran
                                                      • Craig Patchett
                                                        ... Hi Amy. You can t record from an external source with the 100 series other than through the built-in mic. The 300 series include a line-in jack and the
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "AG" <agahran@g...> wrote:

                                                          > I'll keep playing with it, but I'm wondering -- can the iRiver 180T
                                                          > take an external mic through the headphone jack?

                                                          Hi Amy. You can't record from an external source with the 100 series
                                                          other than through the built-in mic. The 300 series include a line-in
                                                          jack and the 500/700/800 (and possible 900) series includes a
                                                          line-in/mic-in jack. (Switchable through a menu option.)

                                                          Craig

                                                          *******************

                                                          Craig Patchett
                                                          The GodCast Network

                                                          "Behind the Scenes", the podcast for podcasters: http://www.btscast.com
                                                        • Bill Kearney
                                                          ... Given the horrible nature of most on-device interfaces coupled with the added cost of a line-in jack I m not surprised to see it removed. Something that
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                            Gregory Narain wrote:
                                                            > I have like 9 790 devices and they all have a line in..
                                                            >
                                                            > I think they discontinued the line so they don't list it anymore.. which
                                                            > seems silly.

                                                            Given the horrible nature of most on-device interfaces coupled with the
                                                            added cost of a line-in jack I'm not surprised to see it removed.
                                                            Something that few people use (if only because it's too f'ing hard to
                                                            figure out) is a sure thing to get cut when price reduction is needed
                                                            (and it's always needed).

                                                            I'm really appalled at how miserable most player devices are to use, and
                                                            even more disappointed that they lack any decent form of developer
                                                            interface.

                                                            I've a nokia 6630 (series 60 symbian) and I get the impression it'd be a
                                                            lot more pleasant to just use my phone for all this. Sure, some player
                                                            devices have the edge in capacity but I can put 256mb RS-MMC (512 soon)
                                                            cards in this and swap 'em out as needed. Either that or a PocketPC
                                                            seems like a much better device save for the price premium.

                                                            -Bill Kearney
                                                          • Peter Ker
                                                            I ve got a 380T and it has a seperate Line in for a Mic or whatever. BUT found If I put my iriver DOWN on my table and speak normally, it records it just fine.
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Apr 4, 2005
                                                              I've got a 380T and it has a seperate Line in for a
                                                              Mic or whatever. BUT found If I put my iriver DOWN on
                                                              my table and speak normally, it records it just fine.
                                                              First time I tried it a few inches from my mouth like
                                                              a "normal" mic and got so much clipping it was
                                                              HILARIOUS!

                                                              Skennen Peace

                                                              http://www.geocities.com/bearclanmohawk
                                                              http://www.cafepress.com/ohkwari



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