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Its Time again

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  • ericstokely
    In case everyone didn t know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 11, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many
      Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without
      having the money all collected yet.

      6k this year to do Portland.

      Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a
      problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

      Eric
      Team 360

      Also a sad PS
      Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360) passed away
      recently. He will be missed.
    • Doug Franklin
      Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School). What s the registration deadline? Is it $6K to participate regardless if you ve
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 12, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).
         
        What's the registration deadline?
        Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?
        Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?)  or other pieces?
         
        $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.
         
        Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in, especially for smaller schools.
         
        Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.
         
        Thanks,
        Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School


        From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]
        Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM
        To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again


        In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many
        Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without
        having the money all collected yet.

        6k this year to do Portland.

        Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a
        problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

        Eric
        Team 360

        Also a sad PS
        Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360)  passed away
        recently. He will be missed.







      • Larry Barello
        Yes. $6k to play + another 2-3 for your robot and more for travel. Be glad you can recycle some parts. In the past the rules disallowed that. ... From: Doug
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 12, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes.  $6k to play + another 2-3 for your robot and more for travel.
           
          Be glad you can recycle some parts.  In the past the rules disallowed that.
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Doug Franklin [mailto:dougf@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:02 AM
          To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [pnw-first] Its Time again

          Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).
           
          What's the registration deadline?
          Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?
          Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?)  or other pieces?
           
          $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.
           
          Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in, especially for smaller schools.
           
          Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.
           
          Thanks,
          Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School


          From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]
          Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM
          To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again


          In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many
          Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without
          having the money all collected yet.

          6k this year to do Portland.

          Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a
          problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

          Eric
          Team 360

          Also a sad PS
          Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360)  passed away
          recently. He will be missed.








        • Eric Stokely
          Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first year. Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            <<$6K seems a bit steep, >>

            Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first
            year.

            Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good news is
            you will be able use some of last years parts like speed controllers
            and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs again))
            We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at the end
            of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been the
            same.

            I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the increase of
            1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but we may be
            able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on
            cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.

            I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me
            <<>>
            There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at
            http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm. Registration payment
            terms can be found at
            http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm. Which says
            picking second regional begins on line on October 28.
                     In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial event of
            $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is due at
            FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an event. If
            FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the team
            will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will be
            moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all
            registrations for the 2005 Championship.
                    Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be received
            by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.
            Payment for all other events registered for must be received by FIRST
            before Friday - January 28, 2005.

            <<>>

            In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to FIRST.

            And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than 9K (6 to
            FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.
            While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas there
            are many ways to find teh money.

            It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it worth th
            eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)
            I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the robot
            (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )
            Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e robot and
            contest are just the delivery mechanism.

            In the future I would like to think that schools will see the value and
            fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that costs
            less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By producing
            students that go to college/on to careers that make their lives better.
            ANd have those students come back and state how much the Robotics
            program was a part of their decisions for college/career/trade
            school/what ever.

            Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false
            Sorry got lost there.

            Hope to see every team return

            Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)
            team 360
            On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

            > Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).
            >  
            > What's the registration deadline?
            > Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?
            > Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?) 
            > or other pieces?
            >  
            > $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI
            > system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries,
            > charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep
            > the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's
            > going to be at least $7-10K to participate.
            >  
            > Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat
            > fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end
            > up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts
            > many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to
            > level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams,
            > but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in,
            > especially for smaller schools.
            >  
            > Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be
            > able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.
            >  
            > Thanks,
            > Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School
            >
            >
            > From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]
            > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM
            > To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again
            >
            >
            > In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST
            > website. I see many
            > Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can
            > register without
            > having the money all collected yet.
            >
            > 6k this year to do Portland.
            >
            > Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo
            > Groups. Could be a
            > problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its
            > all well now.
            >
            > Eric
            > Team 360
            >
            > Also a sad PS
            > Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team
            > 360)  passed away
            > recently. He will be missed.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            > <81804_0704_b_300250a.gif>
            > <l.gif>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pnw-first/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > pnw-first-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
          • Doug Franklin
            Here s another way to look at it. For 1-2K, we can do everything on the project except attend the competition (by judicious re-use of last year s parts). Can
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
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              Here’s another way to look at it.

               

              For 1-2K, we can do everything on the project except attend the competition (by judicious re-use of last year’s parts).   Can get ~70% of the learning experience for 20% of the cost.

               

              Totally agree with your comments on considering this on equal footing with sports, but for a small school, it’s hard to justify the cost per student on this unless we get outside cash.  Plus there are constant pressures for fundraising for lots of other items as well, so getting pure cash donations is difficult.

               

              Thanks,

              Doug

               


              From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:32 AM
              To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again

               

              <<$6K seems a bit steep,

              >>

               

              Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first year.

               

              Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good news is you will be able use some of last years parts like speed controllers and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs again))

              We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at the end of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been the same.

               

              I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the increase of 1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but we may be able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.

               

              I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me

              <<>>

              There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm. Registration payment terms can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm. Which says picking second regional begins on line on October 28.

                       In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial event of $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is due at FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an event. If FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the team will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will be moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all registrations for the 2005 Championship.

                      Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be received by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.

              Payment for all other events registered for must be received by FIRST before Friday - January 28, 2005.

               

              <<>>

               

              In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to FIRST.

               

              And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than 9K (6 to FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.

              While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas there are many ways to find teh money.

               

              It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it worth th eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)

              I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the robot (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )

              Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e robot and contest are just the delivery mechanism.

               

              In the future I would like to think that schools will see the value and fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that costs less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By producing students that go to college/on to careers that make their lives better. ANd have those students come back and state how much the Robotics program was a part of their decisions for college/career/trade school/what ever.

               

              Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false

              Sorry got lost there.

               

              Hope to see every team return

               

              Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)

              team 360

              On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

               

              Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).

               

              What's the registration deadline?

              Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?

              Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?)  or other pieces?

               

              $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.

               

              Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in, especially for smaller schools.

               

              Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.

               

              Thanks,

              Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School

               

              From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]

              Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM

              To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again

               

              In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many

              Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without

              having the money all collected yet.

               

              6k this year to do Portland.

               

              Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a

              problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

               

              Eric

              Team 360

               

              Also a sad PS

              Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360)  passed away

              recently. He will be missed.








               

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              ADVERTISEMENT

               

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              • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

              pnw-first-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

               

              • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

               

            • Eric Stokely
              I agree. You could consider doing a team project using last years parts. Its actually a lot of fun second time around. As for fundraising I hate doing it, I
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                I agree.
                You could consider doing a team project using last years parts. Its
                actually a lot of fun second time around.

                As for fundraising I hate doing it, I have been lucky with key students
                and parents that are better at it than I am. I hope my luck holds.

                There used to a be a High School battle Bot competion. there are a
                number of combat robot contests (if you wanted to risk the damage!) you
                could enter that are local.

                It sounds like you will continue with the mission even if its outside
                of FIRST. And I can understand that.
                If you go that route I suspect you can still count on FIRST teams to
                help with what resources they have.

                Eric
                team 360
                On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

                > Here’s another way to look at it.
                >
                >  
                >
                > For 1-2K, we can do everything on the project except attend the
                > competition (by judicious re-use of last year’s parts).   Can get ~70%
                > of the learning experience for 20% of the cost.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Totally agree with your comments on considering this on equal footing
                > with sports, but for a small school, it’s hard to justify the cost per
                > student on this unless we get outside cash.  Plus there are constant
                > pressures for fundraising for lots of other items as well, so getting
                > pure cash donations is difficult.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Doug
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                > From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:32 AM
                > To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again
                >
                >  
                >
                > <<$6K seems a bit steep, >>
                >
                >  
                >
                > Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first
                > year.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good news is
                > you will be able use some of last years parts like speed controllers
                > and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs again))
                >
                > We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at the
                > end of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been
                > the same.
                >
                >  
                >
                > I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the increase
                > of 1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but we may
                > be able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on
                > cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.
                >
                >  
                >
                > I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me
                >
                > <<>>
                >
                > There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at
                > http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm. Registration payment
                > terms can be found at
                > http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm. Which says
                > picking second regional begins on line on October 28.
                >
                >          In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial event of
                > $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is due at
                > FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an event. If
                > FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the team
                > will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will be
                > moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all
                > registrations for the 2005 Championship.
                >
                >         Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be received
                > by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.
                >
                > Payment for all other events registered for must be received by FIRST
                > before Friday - January 28, 2005.
                >
                >  
                >
                > <<>>
                >
                >  
                >
                > In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to FIRST.
                >
                >  
                >
                > And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than 9K (6
                > to FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.
                >
                > While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas there
                > are many ways to find teh money.
                >
                >  
                >
                > It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it worth th
                > eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)
                >
                > I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the robot
                > (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )
                >
                > Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e robot
                > and contest are just the delivery mechanism.
                >
                >  
                >
                > In the future I would like to think that schools will see the value
                > and fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that
                > costs less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By
                > producing students that go to college/on to careers that make their
                > lives better. ANd have those students come back and state how much the
                > Robotics program was a part of their decisions for
                > college/career/trade school/what ever.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false
                >
                > Sorry got lost there.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Hope to see every team return
                >
                >  
                >
                > Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)
                >
                > team 360
                >
                > On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:
                >
                >  
                >
                > Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).
                >
                >  
                >
                > What's the registration deadline?
                >
                > Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?
                >
                > Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?) 
                > or other pieces?
                >
                >  
                >
                > $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good
                > IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays,
                > batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you
                > wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of
                > that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat
                > fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end
                > up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts
                > many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to
                > level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams,
                > but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in,
                > especially for smaller schools.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be
                > able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School
                >
                >  
                >
                > From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                >
                > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM
                >
                > To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again
                >
                >  
                >
                > In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST
                > website. I see many
                >
                > Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can
                > register without
                >
                > having the money all collected yet.
                >
                >  
                >
                > 6k this year to do Portland.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo
                > Groups. Could be a
                >
                > problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think
                > its all well now.
                >
                >  
                >
                > Eric
                >
                > Team 360
                >
                >  
                >
                > Also a sad PS
                >
                > Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team
                > 360)  passed away
                >
                > recently. He will be missed.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                >  
                >
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >  
                >
                > <81804_0704_b_300250a.gif>
                >
                > <l.gif>
                >
                >  
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >  
                >
                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pnw-first/
                >
                >  
                >
                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >
                > pnw-first-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >  
                >
                > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                > <f2_free2_300x250_def_0904.gif>
                > <l.gif>
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pnw-first/
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              • Ron Pankiewicz
                Set Stokely.WellSaid to True. The real payoff for these kids participating in FIRST comes throughout their lives and careers. Certainly $6K is no small
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Message
                  Set  Stokely.WellSaid  to True.   The real payoff for these kids participating in FIRST comes throughout their lives and careers.
                   
                  Certainly $6K is no small chunk of change, especially for smaller schools.  But planning and preparing for the actual competitive meet raises  everyone's level of enthusiasm and commitment.
                   
                  Would we all benefit from a mechanism or person to facilitate partnering among Seattle-area schools to field teams for the competition?
                   
                    Ron
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:32 AM
                  To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again
                  << $6K seems a bit steep, >>

                  Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first year.

                  Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good news is you will be able use some of last years parts like speed controllers and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs again))
                  We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at the end of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been the same.

                  I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the increase of 1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but we may be able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.

                  I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me
                  <<>>
                  There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm . Registration payment terms can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm . Which says picking second regional begins on line on October 28.
                           In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial event of $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is due at FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an event. If FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the team will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will be moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all registrations for the 2005 Championship.
                          Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be received by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.
                  Payment for all other events registered for must be received by FIRST before Friday - January 28, 2005.

                  <<>>

                  In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to FIRST.

                  And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than 9K (6 to FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.
                  While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas there are many ways to find teh money.

                  It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it worth th eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)
                  I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the robot (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )
                  Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e robot and contest are just the delivery mechanism.

                  In the future I would like to think that schools will see the value and fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that costs less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By producing students that go to college/on to careers that make their lives better. ANd have those students come back and state how much the Robotics program was a part of their decisions for college/career/trade school/what ever.

                  Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false
                  Sorry got lost there.

                  Hope to see every team return

                  Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)
                  team 360
                  On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

                  Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).
                   
                  What's the registration deadline?
                  Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?
                  Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?)  or other pieces?
                   
                  $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.
                   
                  Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in, especially for smaller schools.
                   
                  Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.
                   
                  Thanks,
                  Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School


                  From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                  Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM
                  To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again


                  In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many
                  Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without
                  having the money all collected yet.

                  6k this year to do Portland.

                  Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a
                  problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

                  Eric
                  Team 360

                  Also a sad PS
                  Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360)  passed away
                  recently. He will be missed.










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                • Doug Franklin
                  Thanks. Yeah, there is the Battlebots IQ contest for HS teams, plus a lot of RFL (Robot Fighting League) contests as well. There are 1#, 3#, and 12# local
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Thanks.   Yeah, there is the Battlebots IQ contest for HS teams, plus a lot of RFL (Robot Fighting League) contests as well.  There are 1#, 3#, and 12# local contests, but nothing local for the bigger combat bots (yet).  But there’s serious talk of building a local arena that will safely hold up to 60# combat robots.

                     

                    There is going to be a large competition in San Francisco in March with lots of different robotic events:  See: http://www.robolympics.net/events.shtml

                    Even if I don’t have a robot ready for it I might go down there just to watch.  Last year’s event was pretty interesting from what I’ve heard.

                     

                    Doug

                     


                    From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:31 AM
                    To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again

                     

                    I agree.

                    You could consider doing a team project using last years parts. Its actually a lot of fun second time around.

                     

                    As for fundraising I hate doing it, I have been lucky with key students and parents that are better at it than I am. I hope my luck holds.

                     

                    There used to a be a High School battle Bot competion. there are a number of combat robot contests (if you wanted to risk the damage!) you could enter that are local.

                     

                    It sounds like you will continue with the mission even if its outside of FIRST. And I can understand that.

                    If you go that route I suspect you can still count on FIRST teams to help with what resources they have.

                     

                    Eric

                    team 360

                    On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

                     

                    Here’s another way to look at it.

                     

                     

                     

                    For 1-2K, we can do everything on the project except attend the competition (by judicious re-use of last year’s parts).   Can get ~70% of the learning experience for 20% of the cost.

                     

                     

                     

                    Totally agree with your comments on considering this on equal footing with sports, but for a small school, it’s hard to justify the cost per student on this unless we get outside cash.  Plus there are constant pressures for fundraising for lots of other items as well, so getting pure cash donations is difficult.

                     

                     

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    Doug

                     

                     

                     

                    From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]

                    Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:32 AM

                    To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com

                    Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again

                     

                     

                     

                    <<$6K seems a bit steep, >>

                     

                     

                     

                    Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the first year.

                     

                     

                     

                    Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good news is you will be able use some of last years parts like speed controllers and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs again))

                     

                    We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at the end of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been the same.

                     

                     

                     

                    I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the increase of 1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but we may be able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.

                     

                     

                     

                    I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me

                     

                    <<>>

                     

                    There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm. Registration payment terms can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm. Which says picking second regional begins on line on October 28.

                     

                             In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial event of $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is due at FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an event. If FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the team will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will be moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all registrations for the 2005 Championship.

                     

                            Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be received by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.

                     

                    Payment for all other events registered for must be received by FIRST before Friday - January 28, 2005.

                     

                     

                     

                    <<>>

                     

                     

                     

                    In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to FIRST.

                     

                     

                     

                    And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than 9K (6 to FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.

                     

                    While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas there are many ways to find teh money.

                     

                     

                     

                    It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it worth th eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)

                     

                    I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the robot (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )

                     

                    Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e robot and contest are just the delivery mechanism.

                     

                     

                     

                    In the future I would like to think that schools will see the value and fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that costs less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By producing students that go to college/on to careers that make their lives better. ANd have those students come back and state how much the Robotics program was a part of their decisions for college/career/trade school/what ever.

                     

                     

                     

                    Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false

                     

                    Sorry got lost there.

                     

                     

                     

                    Hope to see every team return

                     

                     

                     

                    Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)

                     

                    team 360

                     

                    On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

                     

                     

                     

                    Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake School).

                     

                     

                     

                    What's the registration deadline?

                     

                    Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in the past?

                     

                    Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system?  (or portions thereof?)  or other pieces?

                     

                     

                     

                    $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays, batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you wanted to keep the cost down.   Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.

                     

                     

                     

                    Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless.   I understand they are trying to level the playing field between well-funded and not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to participate in, especially for smaller schools.

                     

                     

                     

                    Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.

                     

                     

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School

                     

                     

                     

                    From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]

                     

                    Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM

                     

                    To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com

                     

                    Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again

                     

                     

                     

                    In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the FIRST website. I see many

                     

                    Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you can register without

                     

                    having the money all collected yet.

                     

                     

                     

                    6k this year to do Portland.

                     

                     

                     

                    Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo Groups. Could be a

                     

                    problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I think its all well now.

                     

                     

                     

                    Eric

                     

                    Team 360

                     

                     

                     

                    Also a sad PS

                     

                    Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team (team 360)  passed away

                     

                    recently. He will be missed.









                     

                     

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                  • Rob Purdy
                    FWIW Robolympics was by far the best robotics event I ve ever seen. It s a calssic case of I wish I wasn t competing because there was so much cool stuff to
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 13, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      FWIW Robolympics was by far the best robotics event I've ever seen. It's
                      a calssic case of I wish I wasn't competing because there was so much cool
                      stuff to look at.

                      ----Original Message Follows----
                      From: "Doug Franklin" <dougf@...>
                      Reply-To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                      To: <pnw-first@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: RE: [pnw-first] Its Time again
                      Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:44:33 -0700

                      Thanks. Yeah, there is the Battlebots IQ contest for HS teams, plus a
                      lot of RFL (Robot Fighting League) contests as well. There are 1#, 3#,
                      and 12# local contests, but nothing local for the bigger combat bots
                      (yet). But there's serious talk of building a local arena that will
                      safely hold up to 60# combat robots.



                      There is going to be a large competition in San Francisco in March with
                      lots of different robotic events: See:
                      http://www.robolympics.net/events.shtml

                      Even if I don't have a robot ready for it I might go down there just to
                      watch. Last year's event was pretty interesting from what I've heard.



                      Doug



                      ________________________________

                      From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:31 AM
                      To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again



                      I agree.

                      You could consider doing a team project using last years parts. Its
                      actually a lot of fun second time around.



                      As for fundraising I hate doing it, I have been lucky with key students
                      and parents that are better at it than I am. I hope my luck holds.



                      There used to a be a High School battle Bot competion. there are a
                      number of combat robot contests (if you wanted to risk the damage!) you
                      could enter that are local.



                      It sounds like you will continue with the mission even if its outside of
                      FIRST. And I can understand that.

                      If you go that route I suspect you can still count on FIRST teams to
                      help with what resources they have.



                      Eric

                      team 360

                      On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:



                      Here's another way to look at it.







                      For 1-2K, we can do everything on the project except attend the
                      competition (by judicious re-use of last year's parts). Can get ~70%
                      of the learning experience for 20% of the cost.







                      Totally agree with your comments on considering this on equal
                      footing with sports, but for a small school, it's hard to justify the
                      cost per student on this unless we get outside cash. Plus there are
                      constant pressures for fundraising for lots of other items as well, so
                      getting pure cash donations is difficult.







                      Thanks,



                      Doug







                      From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]

                      Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:32 AM

                      To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com

                      Subject: Re: [pnw-first] Its Time again







                      <<$6K seems a bit steep, >>







                      Excellent questions and everyone has explored these after the
                      first year.







                      Its 6K regardless. Yea I know you have an IFI etc. (the good
                      news is you will be able use some of last years parts like speed
                      controllers and relays for 2005 (assuming they don't change the specs
                      again))



                      We have brought this up at various team forums (the meetings at
                      the end of the season with a FIRST Rep) but the results have always been
                      the same.







                      I think we screwed up by not making a bigger deal about the
                      increase of 1000 to the current 6K. Its too late now to change this but
                      we may be able to fix it for next year by being loud (but not rude) on
                      cheifdelphi, at forums and communications with FIRST.







                      I have had a few questions with FIRST and they sent this to me



                      <<>>



                      There is a Calendar of Important Events, that can be found at
                      http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/frc_time.htm. Registration payment terms
                      can be found at http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/paymentterms.htm.
                      Which says picking second regional begins on line on October 28.



                      In 2005, all event registrations beyond the initial
                      event of $6000 require a $500 non-refundable deposit. This deposit is
                      due at FIRST within ten business days of registering on line for an
                      event. If FIRST has not received your deposit within this time frame the
                      team will be moved to the wait list for that event and another team will
                      be moved into the event. The $500 deposit policy also applies to all
                      registrations for the 2005 Championship.



                      Payment of $6000.00 for 1st Event Registered must be
                      received by FIRST before Friday - December 3rd, 2004.



                      Payment for all other events registered for must be received by
                      FIRST before Friday - January 28, 2005.







                      <<>>







                      In answer to your original question , Dec 3 you need 6K to
                      FIRST.







                      And just to be honest I can't imagine doing this for less than
                      9K (6 to FIRST and 3 to build) in addition to travel.



                      While I don't want this email to be a list of fundraising ideas
                      there are many ways to find teh money.







                      It becomes a decision if its worth it to the students. Is it
                      worth th eopayoff at the end (the competition and beyond)



                      I tell my new parents that Robotics has nothing to do with the
                      robot (And I have built robots that prove that :-) )



                      Seriously its everything else that I think is important. th e
                      robot and contest are just the delivery mechanism.







                      In the future I would like to think that schools will see the
                      value and fund it like a sports team (show me any football program that
                      costs less than 10k a year) but we need to show them the value. By
                      producing students that go to college/on to careers that make their
                      lives better. ANd have those students come back and state how much the
                      Robotics program was a part of their decisions for college/career/trade
                      school/what ever.







                      Hmmm. Set Stokely.Soapbox to false



                      Sorry got lost there.







                      Hope to see every team return







                      Eric (BTW this will be my 7th year in FIRST)



                      team 360



                      On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:







                      Question from a potential 2nd-time FIRST participant (Overlake
                      School).







                      What's the registration deadline?



                      Is it $6K to participate regardless if you've participated in
                      the past?



                      Are you supposed to re-use your IFI system? (or portions
                      thereof?) or other pieces?







                      $6K seems a bit steep, especially when you've got a perfectly
                      good IFI system and sets of Victor speed controllers, spike relays,
                      batteries, charger, etc you can pull from last year's robot if you
                      wanted to keep the cost down. Plus you need to spend $$$ on top of
                      that, so it's going to be at least $7-10K to participate.







                      Seems like they could keep the costs down a bit by just charge a
                      flat fee for hosting the event, then charge for the parts you actually
                      end up needing / using each year, rather than giving you a big
                      tub-o-parts many of which end up being useless. I understand they are
                      trying to level the playing field between well-funded and
                      not-well-funded teams, but this event is getting a bit expensive to
                      participate in, especially for smaller schools.







                      Anyway, bottom line is that I'm not sure at this point if we'll
                      be able to come up with the $$$ to participate this year.







                      Thanks,



                      Doug Franklin, 1416 Overlake School







                      From: ericstokely [mailto:estokely@...]



                      Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:48 PM



                      To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com



                      Subject: [pnw-first] Its Time again







                      In case everyone didn't know registration has been open on the
                      FIRST website. I see many



                      Wasshington teams there now but not all of them yet. Remeber you
                      can register without



                      having the money all collected yet.







                      6k this year to do Portland.







                      Also, I think that my email was getting lost coming out of Yahoo
                      Groups. Could be a



                      problem with my own mail program deciding on what is spam. I
                      think its all well now.







                      Eric



                      Team 360







                      Also a sad PS



                      Cam Brown, mentor from Bellarmine of the first Washington team
                      (team 360) passed away



                      recently. He will be missed.















                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor







                      ADVERTISEMENT







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                      pnw-first-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com







                      * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.









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                      ADVERTISEMENT



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                    • Eric Stokely
                      Out of curiosity We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has 7 teams from Washington so far. For those teams on this list and not yet
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 15, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Out of curiosity

                        We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has 7
                        teams from Washington so far.

                        For those teams on this list and not yet signed up. Are you planning on
                        attending?

                        Also if you signed up for a different regional could you let me know?

                        Thanks, we are just trying to get a handle on the event

                        Thanks
                        Eric
                        Team 360
                      • Kevin Ross
                        I finished our registration today, so baby makes 8.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 15, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I finished our registration today, so baby makes 8.

                          >-----Original Message-----
                          >From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                          >Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:50 PM
                          >To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [pnw-first] Who is going to Portland
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Out of curiosity
                          >
                          >We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has 7
                          >teams from Washington so far.
                          >
                          >For those teams on this list and not yet signed up. Are you
                          >planning on
                          >attending?
                          >
                          >Also if you signed up for a different regional could you let me know?
                          >
                          >Thanks, we are just trying to get a handle on the event
                          >
                          >Thanks
                          >Eric
                          >Team 360
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Goodman Pete E.
                          Kamiak HS is planning on going to Portland. If we qualify we are also looking at the National as well. Pete Goodman ... From: Eric Stokely
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Kamiak HS is planning on going to Portland. If we qualify we are also
                            looking at the National as well.
                            Pete Goodman

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                            Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:50 PM
                            To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [pnw-first] Who is going to Portland


                            Out of curiosity

                            We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has 7
                            teams from Washington so far.

                            For those teams on this list and not yet signed up. Are you planning on
                            attending?

                            Also if you signed up for a different regional could you let me know?

                            Thanks, we are just trying to get a handle on the event

                            Thanks
                            Eric
                            Team 360





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                          • Ryan McElroy
                            Titan Robotics (team 492) is short on cash.barring a very successful fundraising drive, we re not going to make this one. ~Ryan
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 18, 2004
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                              Titan Robotics (team 492) is short on cash.barring a very successful
                              fundraising drive, we're not going to make this one.

                              ~Ryan

                              Goodman Pete E. wrote:

                              >Kamiak HS is planning on going to Portland. If we qualify we are also
                              >looking at the National as well.
                              >Pete Goodman
                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@...]
                              >Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:50 PM
                              >To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: [pnw-first] Who is going to Portland
                              >
                              >
                              >Out of curiosity
                              >
                              >We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has 7
                              >teams from Washington so far.
                              >
                              >For those teams on this list and not yet signed up. Are you planning on
                              >attending?
                              >
                              >Also if you signed up for a different regional could you let me know?
                              >
                              >Thanks, we are just trying to get a handle on the event
                              >
                              >Thanks
                              >Eric
                              >Team 360
                              >
                              >
                            • gakilpat
                              Wolverine Robotics (team 949) is in the same boat... fundraising is just not getting us what we need. ... successful ... also ... 7 ... planning on ... know?
                              Message 14 of 14 , Oct 25, 2004
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                                Wolverine Robotics (team 949) is in the same boat... fundraising is
                                just not getting us what we need.

                                --- In pnw-first@yahoogroups.com, Ryan McElroy <ryanmcelroy@m...>
                                wrote:
                                > Titan Robotics (team 492) is short on cash.barring a very
                                successful
                                > fundraising drive, we're not going to make this one.
                                >
                                > ~Ryan
                                >
                                > Goodman Pete E. wrote:
                                >
                                > >Kamiak HS is planning on going to Portland. If we qualify we are
                                also
                                > >looking at the National as well.
                                > >Pete Goodman
                                > >
                                > >-----Original Message-----
                                > >From: Eric Stokely [mailto:estokely@w...]
                                > >Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:50 PM
                                > >To: pnw-first@yahoogroups.com
                                > >Subject: [pnw-first] Who is going to Portland
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Out of curiosity
                                > >
                                > >We noticed that the signups for the Portland PNW regional only has
                                7
                                > >teams from Washington so far.
                                > >
                                > >For those teams on this list and not yet signed up. Are you
                                planning on
                                > >attending?
                                > >
                                > >Also if you signed up for a different regional could you let me
                                know?
                                > >
                                > >Thanks, we are just trying to get a handle on the event
                                > >
                                > >Thanks
                                > >Eric
                                > >Team 360
                                > >
                                > >
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