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Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

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  • Leslie Chasse
    The true pint glass is a larger glass. But, if bars and pubs can call 12 oz s a pint and get away with it? maybe those of us that know better should, in a
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 10, 2013
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      The true pint glass is a larger glass.  But, if bars and pubs can call 12 oz's a pint and get away with it?  maybe those of us that know better should, in a very nice, non-threatening way, point this out more often?


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
      To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:26 pm
      Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

       
      The problem, from how I see it, is the pint glasses we are used to CAN hold 16oz if you fill it all the way to the top. Yet that's not how they are poured. In fact, I've been to places which advertise a pint of beer, and then they bring you the beer in the 12oz bottle and pour it right there at the table.

      Plus we use these "pint" glasses at home. We fill it from a 12oz bottle so we all pretty much now where the fill line of 12oz is. And except for certain places (East Vancouver McMenammins for example) most pubs I go to pour to the 12oz line. Sometimes you get closer to 14oz but the point is most of the menus (like McMenammins) say something like "Happy Hour Pints = $3.50" but that's not what we getting!

       
      When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


      From: Ray Manning <rainmanram@...>
      To: plato_republic@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:14 PM
      Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

       
      I don’t think that’s what Ian is getting at. An imperial pint is 20 imperial ounces (568 ml) while an American pint is 16 American ounces (473 ml).  I think what Ian is talking about is the 12 ounce glasses the bars use and serve as a “pint”.  I’ve always wondered about this myself and have yet to find a reasonable answer.  Most of the “pint” glasses they sell with beer logos that you probably use at home will only hold 12 American ounces.  These are the same glasses the bars call a pint.
      Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject
       
       
      It's called an american pint.  Granted, I think they should differentiate, but many beer drinkers don't really know the difference.  I mean, many beer drinkers still drink Budweiser!


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
      To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:53 pm
      Subject: [plato_republic] A sore subject

       
      I apologize if this is a subject which has previously been beaten to death and not to be ever brought up again but I have to ask and I figure this forum is the best place to do it.

      Simply put, how can American pubs get away saying "pint of ber = X dollars" yet you get only a 12oz pour?

      Is it simply because a standard "pint" glass can hold 16 ounces if you fill it right up to the lip (and then can't move it) or is it simply people not realizing they are in effect advertising a Venti but giving us a Grande?

      This irritates me because I've had pubs pretty much tell me I'm crazy. A pub (which will remain nameless) used to sell their beer in 8, 12, 16 and 20oz sizes. It was posted right on their board. The first time I ordered a 16oz, I got a standard 12oz in the "standard pint" glass we're all so familiar with. I didn't say anything at the time. Yet on a later visit, I ordered a 20oz, and I got a standard British pint glass. This time I said something but I was told that I indeed was getting 16oz.

      Well I call BS on that. As I said, a standard pint glass used around here holds 16oz only if you fill it all the way up to the top which most pubs don't do. A British pint glass holds 18oz (I just checked again about 5 minutes ago) if you fill it all the way up to the top, again which makes you unable to move it without spilling all over the place. Funny how after I complained, the pub in question switched to small, medium, large and x-large for their amounts. This makes me suspicious.

      So why is it that people can sell a pint but not actually give us this? Again, to use a coffee example, if Starbucks sold Grande amounts to people who paid for a Venti, there would be rioting in the streets (well until the caffiene wore off I supposed) so why is it that everyone accepts we get cheated out of 2-4oz of beer with every pour? I mean I'm pretty sure it is illegal to scam your customers.

      Again, sorry if this is a "dead horse" discussion but I'm tired of buying a glass online saying it's a 16oz pint glass and getting a more traditional "American Pint" glass more suited for the 12oz pour.
       
      When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


    • Michel Entler
      As a former bartender I can answer this question. Most pint glasses you get at bars are American Pints holding 16 fluid oz, with that said bartenders will give
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 16, 2013
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        As a former bartender I can answer this question. Most pint glasses you get at bars are American Pints holding 16 fluid oz, with that said bartenders will give you roughly an inch of head on each glass giving you roughly 14 oz of solid beer (give or take an oz). This is for two reasons, some head is good (hold the jokes) and is part of a proper pour the other is that it is a pain in the as to have 0 head and you would lose a bunch of beer in move from the bar to your table. Most imperial pints have a line on them that say 20 oz and the beer is usually filled just passed the line if bartender does his job right.  They advertise 16 oz beers because that is glass you receive, poured as it should be poured with an inch of head.

        With all these reasons I say be happy with paying an average of $4.75 a beer here in Portland. In the Mid-West you are looking at more 5.50-6.50, on the East coast its closer to 7. Another great thing is if you don't like how a brewery is doing business (Mcmenammins for example) you go across the street to a different brew pub. 
         
        -Miche Entler


        From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
        To: "plato_republic@yahoogroups.com" <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:26 PM
        Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

         
        The problem, from how I see it, is the pint glasses we are used to CAN hold 16oz if you fill it all the way to the top. Yet that's not how they are poured. In fact, I've been to places which advertise a pint of beer, and then they bring you the beer in the 12oz bottle and pour it right there at the table.

        Plus we use these "pint" glasses at home. We fill it from a 12oz bottle so we all pretty much now where the fill line of 12oz is. And except for certain places (East Vancouver McMenammins for example) most pubs I go to pour to the 12oz line. Sometimes you get closer to 14oz but the point is most of the menus (like McMenammins) say something like "Happy Hour Pints = $3.50" but that's not what we getting!

         
        When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


        From: Ray Manning <rainmanram@...>
        To: plato_republic@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

         
        I don’t think that’s what Ian is getting at. An imperial pint is 20 imperial ounces (568 ml) while an American pint is 16 American ounces (473 ml).  I think what Ian is talking about is the 12 ounce glasses the bars use and serve as a “pint”.  I’ve always wondered about this myself and have yet to find a reasonable answer.  Most of the “pint” glasses they sell with beer logos that you probably use at home will only hold 12 American ounces.  These are the same glasses the bars call a pint.
        Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:59 PM
        Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject
         
         
        It's called an american pint.  Granted, I think they should differentiate, but many beer drinkers don't really know the difference.  I mean, many beer drinkers still drink Budweiser!


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
        To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:53 pm
        Subject: [plato_republic] A sore subject

         
        I apologize if this is a subject which has previously been beaten to death and not to be ever brought up again but I have to ask and I figure this forum is the best place to do it.

        Simply put, how can American pubs get away saying "pint of ber = X dollars" yet you get only a 12oz pour?

        Is it simply because a standard "pint" glass can hold 16 ounces if you fill it right up to the lip (and then can't move it) or is it simply people not realizing they are in effect advertising a Venti but giving us a Grande?

        This irritates me because I've had pubs pretty much tell me I'm crazy. A pub (which will remain nameless) used to sell their beer in 8, 12, 16 and 20oz sizes. It was posted right on their board. The first time I ordered a 16oz, I got a standard 12oz in the "standard pint" glass we're all so familiar with. I didn't say anything at the time. Yet on a later visit, I ordered a 20oz, and I got a standard British pint glass. This time I said something but I was told that I indeed was getting 16oz.

        Well I call BS on that. As I said, a standard pint glass used around here holds 16oz only if you fill it all the way up to the top which most pubs don't do. A British pint glass holds 18oz (I just checked again about 5 minutes ago) if you fill it all the way up to the top, again which makes you unable to move it without spilling all over the place. Funny how after I complained, the pub in question switched to small, medium, large and x-large for their amounts. This makes me suspicious.

        So why is it that people can sell a pint but not actually give us this? Again, to use a coffee example, if Starbucks sold Grande amounts to people who paid for a Venti, there would be rioting in the streets (well until the caffiene wore off I supposed) so why is it that everyone accepts we get cheated out of 2-4oz of beer with every pour? I mean I'm pretty sure it is illegal to scam your customers.

        Again, sorry if this is a "dead horse" discussion but I'm tired of buying a glass online saying it's a 16oz pint glass and getting a more traditional "American Pint" glass more suited for the 12oz pour.
         
        When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936




      • Leslie Chasse
        Well stated. Thank you Michel. The best way to influence a bar or pub is with our patronage, or lack there of. ... From: Michel Entler
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 16, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Well stated.   Thank you Michel.  The best way to influence a bar or pub is with our patronage, or lack there of.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Michel Entler <theguy122@...>
          To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, Apr 16, 2013 11:36 am
          Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

           
          As a former bartender I can answer this question. Most pint glasses you get at bars are American Pints holding 16 fluid oz, with that said bartenders will give you roughly an inch of head on each glass giving you roughly 14 oz of solid beer (give or take an oz). This is for two reasons, some head is good (hold the jokes) and is part of a proper pour the other is that it is a pain in the as to have 0 head and you would lose a bunch of beer in move from the bar to your table. Most imperial pints have a line on them that say 20 oz and the beer is usually filled just passed the line if bartender does his job right.  They advertise 16 oz beers because that is glass you receive, poured as it should be poured with an inch of head.

          With all these reasons I say be happy with paying an average of $4.75 a beer here in Portland. In the Mid-West you are looking at more 5.50-6.50, on the East coast its closer to 7. Another great thing is if you don't like how a brewery is doing business (Mcmenammins for example) you go across the street to a different brew pub. 
           
          -Miche Entler


          From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
          To: "plato_republic@yahoogroups.com" <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:26 PM
          Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

           
          The problem, from how I see it, is the pint glasses we are used to CAN hold 16oz if you fill it all the way to the top. Yet that's not how they are poured. In fact, I've been to places which advertise a pint of beer, and then they bring you the beer in the 12oz bottle and pour it right there at the table.

          Plus we use these "pint" glasses at home. We fill it from a 12oz bottle so we all pretty much now where the fill line of 12oz is. And except for certain places (East Vancouver McMenammins for example) most pubs I go to pour to the 12oz line. Sometimes you get closer to 14oz but the point is most of the menus (like McMenammins) say something like "Happy Hour Pints = $3.50" but that's not what we getting!

           
          When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


          From: Ray Manning <rainmanram@...>
          To: plato_republic@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:14 PM
          Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

           
          I don’t think that’s what Ian is getting at. An imperial pint is 20 imperial ounces (568 ml) while an American pint is 16 American ounces (473 ml).  I think what Ian is talking about is the 12 ounce glasses the bars use and serve as a “pint”.  I’ve always wondered about this myself and have yet to find a reasonable answer.  Most of the “pint” glasses they sell with beer logos that you probably use at home will only hold 12 American ounces.  These are the same glasses the bars call a pint.
          Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:59 PM
          Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject
           
           
          It's called an american pint.  Granted, I think they should differentiate, but many beer drinkers don't really know the difference.  I mean, many beer drinkers still drink Budweiser!


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
          To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:53 pm
          Subject: [plato_republic] A sore subject

           
          I apologize if this is a subject which has previously been beaten to death and not to be ever brought up again but I have to ask and I figure this forum is the best place to do it.

          Simply put, how can American pubs get away saying "pint of ber = X dollars" yet you get only a 12oz pour?

          Is it simply because a standard "pint" glass can hold 16 ounces if you fill it right up to the lip (and then can't move it) or is it simply people not realizing they are in effect advertising a Venti but giving us a Grande?

          This irritates me because I've had pubs pretty much tell me I'm crazy. A pub (which will remain nameless) used to sell their beer in 8, 12, 16 and 20oz sizes. It was posted right on their board. The first time I ordered a 16oz, I got a standard 12oz in the "standard pint" glass we're all so familiar with. I didn't say anything at the time. Yet on a later visit, I ordered a 20oz, and I got a standard British pint glass. This time I said something but I was told that I indeed was getting 16oz.

          Well I call BS on that. As I said, a standard pint glass used around here holds 16oz only if you fill it all the way up to the top which most pubs don't do. A British pint glass holds 18oz (I just checked again about 5 minutes ago) if you fill it all the way up to the top, again which makes you unable to move it without spilling all over the place. Funny how after I complained, the pub in question switched to small, medium, large and x-large for their amounts. This makes me suspicious.

          So why is it that people can sell a pint but not actually give us this? Again, to use a coffee example, if Starbucks sold Grande amounts to people who paid for a Venti, there would be rioting in the streets (well until the caffiene wore off I supposed) so why is it that everyone accepts we get cheated out of 2-4oz of beer with every pour? I mean I'm pretty sure it is illegal to scam your customers.

          Again, sorry if this is a "dead horse" discussion but I'm tired of buying a glass online saying it's a 16oz pint glass and getting a more traditional "American Pint" glass more suited for the 12oz pour.
           
          When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936




        • Ian Alexander
          While this does answer some of my question/complaint, it still raises the question of why so many places get away with false advertising. Surely I can
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 16, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            While this does answer some of my question/complaint, it still raises the question of why so many places get away with false advertising. Surely I can patronize a different business which advertises a pint but then brings a 12oz bottle and pours it there. However I shouldn't have to. Again aren't there laws which say if you advertise A then you damn well better sell A?

            While I certainly believe in citizin policing (especially given all my years of being a Guardsman) I also wonder why OR and WA labor types are doing more on this. I had a friend pretty much stop being a pub owner due to a really nasty agent of that Oregon Alcohol task force. I've heard they can be real pains. So why aren't they getting down on places for advertising pints but giving only 12oz?

            Frankly while I know lots of people groan about gov't interference, I think places which sell alcohol need to have their glasses have the fill lines printed on them just like you see in the UK. I mean if I can see 2oz over the fill line with a head going up to the top, I'm good.  Plus some places use different beer glasses which can be used to mask how much beer your getting. I just tested a beer class that I think I got from IKEA. It's one of those tall lager type glasses. It only contains 14oz if you pour right to the rim. So again, great for a 12oz pour but not a true pint. Back when I was a pysch student, I saw lots of perceptual studies which talk about how easily we can be tricked in regards to volume depending on the container.

             
            When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


            From: Michel Entler <theguy122@...>
            To: "plato_republic@yahoogroups.com" <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:36 AM
            Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

             
            As a former bartender I can answer this question. Most pint glasses you get at bars are American Pints holding 16 fluid oz, with that said bartenders will give you roughly an inch of head on each glass giving you roughly 14 oz of solid beer (give or take an oz). This is for two reasons, some head is good (hold the jokes) and is part of a proper pour the other is that it is a pain in the as to have 0 head and you would lose a bunch of beer in move from the bar to your table. Most imperial pints have a line on them that say 20 oz and the beer is usually filled just passed the line if bartender does his job right.  They advertise 16 oz beers because that is glass you receive, poured as it should be poured with an inch of head.

            With all these reasons I say be happy with paying an average of $4.75 a beer here in Portland. In the Mid-West you are looking at more 5.50-6.50, on the East coast its closer to 7. Another great thing is if you don't like how a brewery is doing business (Mcmenammins for example) you go across the street to a different brew pub. 
             
            -Miche Entler


            From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
            To: "plato_republic@yahoogroups.com" <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

             
            The problem, from how I see it, is the pint glasses we are used to CAN hold 16oz if you fill it all the way to the top. Yet that's not how they are poured. In fact, I've been to places which advertise a pint of beer, and then they bring you the beer in the 12oz bottle and pour it right there at the table.

            Plus we use these "pint" glasses at home. We fill it from a 12oz bottle so we all pretty much now where the fill line of 12oz is. And except for certain places (East Vancouver McMenammins for example) most pubs I go to pour to the 12oz line. Sometimes you get closer to 14oz but the point is most of the menus (like McMenammins) say something like "Happy Hour Pints = $3.50" but that's not what we getting!

             
            When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936


            From: Ray Manning <rainmanram@...>
            To: plato_republic@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:14 PM
            Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject

             
            I don’t think that’s what Ian is getting at. An imperial pint is 20 imperial ounces (568 ml) while an American pint is 16 American ounces (473 ml).  I think what Ian is talking about is the 12 ounce glasses the bars use and serve as a “pint”.  I’ve always wondered about this myself and have yet to find a reasonable answer.  Most of the “pint” glasses they sell with beer logos that you probably use at home will only hold 12 American ounces.  These are the same glasses the bars call a pint.
            Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:59 PM
            Subject: Re: [plato_republic] A sore subject
             
             
            It's called an american pint.  Granted, I think they should differentiate, but many beer drinkers don't really know the difference.  I mean, many beer drinkers still drink Budweiser!


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ian Alexander <arkham4269@...>
            To: plato_republic <plato_republic@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:53 pm
            Subject: [plato_republic] A sore subject

             
            I apologize if this is a subject which has previously been beaten to death and not to be ever brought up again but I have to ask and I figure this forum is the best place to do it.

            Simply put, how can American pubs get away saying "pint of ber = X dollars" yet you get only a 12oz pour?

            Is it simply because a standard "pint" glass can hold 16 ounces if you fill it right up to the lip (and then can't move it) or is it simply people not realizing they are in effect advertising a Venti but giving us a Grande?

            This irritates me because I've had pubs pretty much tell me I'm crazy. A pub (which will remain nameless) used to sell their beer in 8, 12, 16 and 20oz sizes. It was posted right on their board. The first time I ordered a 16oz, I got a standard 12oz in the "standard pint" glass we're all so familiar with. I didn't say anything at the time. Yet on a later visit, I ordered a 20oz, and I got a standard British pint glass. This time I said something but I was told that I indeed was getting 16oz.

            Well I call BS on that. As I said, a standard pint glass used around here holds 16oz only if you fill it all the way up to the top which most pubs don't do. A British pint glass holds 18oz (I just checked again about 5 minutes ago) if you fill it all the way up to the top, again which makes you unable to move it without spilling all over the place. Funny how after I complained, the pub in question switched to small, medium, large and x-large for their amounts. This makes me suspicious.

            So why is it that people can sell a pint but not actually give us this? Again, to use a coffee example, if Starbucks sold Grande amounts to people who paid for a Venti, there would be rioting in the streets (well until the caffiene wore off I supposed) so why is it that everyone accepts we get cheated out of 2-4oz of beer with every pour? I mean I'm pretty sure it is illegal to scam your customers.

            Again, sorry if this is a "dead horse" discussion but I'm tired of buying a glass online saying it's a 16oz pint glass and getting a more traditional "American Pint" glass more suited for the 12oz pour.
             
            When they ask us why we died; tell them it was because our Fathers lied - Rudyard Kipling 1865 -1936






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