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religion weakens society

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  • Romeo Macapobre
    My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does weaken society because: 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 20 6:26 PM
      My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
      weaken society because:

      1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
      homosexuals / minorities.
      2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
      medicine) progress.
      3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the arts.

      what do you think?

      How does it strenghten or benefit society?

      Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
      there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..

      --
      apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
      apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
    • mabes020
      I can totally agree with you there. We ve become so afraid of telling things like it is as a result of excessive religious influence. As much as I see why
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 20 7:17 PM
        I can totally agree with you there. We've become so afraid of telling
        things like it is as a result of excessive religious influence.

        As much as I see why people need it, I see more that it does little
        else but push people apart rather than together. Not to mention the
        loss of rationality that follows.


        > My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
        > weaken society because:
        >
        > 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
        > homosexuals / minorities.
        > 2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
        > medicine) progress.
        > 3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and
        the arts.
        >
        > what do you think?
        >
        > How does it strenghten or benefit society?
        >
        > Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
        > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..
        >
        > --
        > apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
        > apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
        >
      • jose mario sison
        Fro my point of view, religion (belief in a god, as collecting stamp can be defined as religion as well) causes superstitious belief and therefore harming the
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 20 8:35 PM
          Fro my point of view, religion (belief in a god, as collecting stamp can be defined as religion as well) causes superstitious belief and therefore harming the society.

          mabes020 <mabes020@...> wrote: I can totally agree with you there. We've become so afraid of telling
          things like it is as a result of excessive religious influence.

          As much as I see why people need it, I see more that it does little
          else but push people apart rather than together. Not to mention the
          loss of rationality that follows.

          > My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
          > weaken society because:
          >
          > 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
          > homosexuals / minorities.
          > 2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
          > medicine) progress.
          > 3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and
          the arts.
          >
          > what do you think?
          >
          > How does it strenghten or benefit society?
          >
          > Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
          > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..
          >
          > --
          > apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
          > apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
          >





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        • suntoksabwan
          * 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women / homosexuals / minorities.* It is hard to generalize because religion per se also refers to
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 20 8:42 PM
            * 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
            homosexuals / minorities.*

            It is hard to generalize because religion per se also refers to other belief
            systems such as animism (Shinto I think, Native American Indian beliefs,
            and the reverence of our ancestors towards forest spirits and the likes),
            Hinduism and Buddhism to name a few. They all have different ways in
            dealing with rights of women (our ancestors for one have priestesses and
            medicine women which their society held with high regards), in dealing with
            minorities (some Christian and Catholic sects have arisen because they have
            been adopted by exactly those who were marginalized), and in some systems of
            belief deals with homosexuals in different ways. Catholics for one tend to
            be more "lenient" towards homosexuals as compared to muslims. Hindus I
            think have a system of belief relating to homosexuals. I've read of islands
            in the pacific that encourages young men to try their stuff out with other
            men before getting married (practice ba).

            You might be referring to the Catholic Church exclusively. I cannot deny
            that the Catholic Church is definitely patriarchal and they have their
            scriptures (from St. Paul apparently which happens to be their first pope)
            to back up that "arrangement" so to speak. There are however, non-catholic
            churches that are open to women preachers.

            Plus, the catholic church in the Philippines has been very active in
            lobbying for measures to protect women against violence and exploitation
            from... men. Other system of beliefs are not very "women" friendly and are
            aggressive in suppressing women from their participation in politics and in
            the economy.

            The thing is with regards going against progress, religion along with
            culture, along with established societal classes, along with established
            values, along with established governments and power structures, will
            inevitably resist social changes or movements.

            Institutions tend to resist change.


            *2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
            medicine) progress.*

            I dunno about this. Many medical researches are being done by
            Catholic-Christian sponsored Universities and Hospitals all over the world.
            But because of the nature of these institutions, certain researches are not
            funded because of... as they say, moral and ethical reasons. Stem cell
            research and genetic engineering are researches that are apparently tabooed
            in such institutions.

            But, genetic engineering is also shunned by some well organized and well
            funded environmental protection groups.


            *3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
            arts.*

            I dunno man. Art has so much to thank religion for. The Statue of David,
            the Sistine Chapel, The School of Athens by Raphael...architecture, a whole
            innumerable body of literature, poetry, drama had been inspired by religion,
            or where born because of persecution by established religion, where directly
            commissioned by the Pope or devout Christian patrons. Before Christianity,
            Gods and Goddesses, deities and demigods where portrayed in vases, busts and
            sculptures. The great temple cities of Borobudur and Angkor Wat where
            Buddhist monuments. The great pyramids where raised from the ground
            because of the irresistible urgings of God kings. To further illustrate,
            the most beautiful and intricate of pots and vessels from ancient china,
            where ceremonial...the only reason they adorned such things was because they
            were appeasing entities beyond the temporal.


            * what do you think?*


            * How does it strenghten or benefit society?*



            *Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
            there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..*

            Oh yes it does! Churchill was invoking God when he was calling on his
            people to sacrifice and give everything for Britain. Hitler was invoking
            God to rally the Nazis against the world. God was behind the Great and
            destructive crusades, and God was with the Muslim defenders who were simply
            defending their way of life and land from the onslaught of conquerors from
            Europe.

            God was behind the Moros when they defended their land from the Spaniards
            and Christianized Indios. And, God was behind the Indios as they marched to
            their death into the lands of the Moros.

            Religion does bring people together. It does that so well that it can rally
            peace loving people to their death.

            And on a final note... Religion is not always the real reason behind wars.
            It most often legitimizes wars though and is used to rally the masses to
            pick up their pitchforks for the benefit of ruling elites.

            ANG HABA NITO! HEHEHE ^_^





            On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Romeo Macapobre
            <romeo.macapobre@...>wrote:

            > My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
            > weaken society because:
            >
            > 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
            > homosexuals / minorities.
            > 2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
            > medicine) progress.
            > 3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
            > arts.
            >
            > what do you think?
            >
            > How does it strenghten or benefit society?
            >
            > Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
            > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..
            >
            > --
            > apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
            > apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jose mario sison
            suntok, not St Paul, its Peter. suntoksabwan wrote: * 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women / homosexuals /
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 20 8:47 PM
              suntok,
              not St Paul, its Peter.

              suntoksabwan <suntoksabwan@...> wrote:
              * 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
              homosexuals / minorities.*

              It is hard to generalize because religion per se also refers to other belief
              systems such as animism (Shinto I think, Native American Indian beliefs,
              and the reverence of our ancestors towards forest spirits and the likes),
              Hinduism and Buddhism to name a few. They all have different ways in
              dealing with rights of women (our ancestors for one have priestesses and
              medicine women which their society held with high regards), in dealing with
              minorities (some Christian and Catholic sects have arisen because they have
              been adopted by exactly those who were marginalized), and in some systems of
              belief deals with homosexuals in different ways. Catholics for one tend to
              be more "lenient" towards homosexuals as compared to muslims. Hindus I
              think have a system of belief relating to homosexuals. I've read of islands
              in the pacific that encourages young men to try their stuff out with other
              men before getting married (practice ba).

              You might be referring to the Catholic Church exclusively. I cannot deny
              that the Catholic Church is definitely patriarchal and they have their
              scriptures (from St. Paul apparently which happens to be their first pope)
              to back up that "arrangement" so to speak. There are however, non-catholic
              churches that are open to women preachers.

              Plus, the catholic church in the Philippines has been very active in
              lobbying for measures to protect women against violence and exploitation
              from... men. Other system of beliefs are not very "women" friendly and are
              aggressive in suppressing women from their participation in politics and in
              the economy.

              The thing is with regards going against progress, religion along with
              culture, along with established societal classes, along with established
              values, along with established governments and power structures, will
              inevitably resist social changes or movements.

              Institutions tend to resist change.

              *2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
              medicine) progress.*

              I dunno about this. Many medical researches are being done by
              Catholic-Christian sponsored Universities and Hospitals all over the world.
              But because of the nature of these institutions, certain researches are not
              funded because of... as they say, moral and ethical reasons. Stem cell
              research and genetic engineering are researches that are apparently tabooed
              in such institutions.

              But, genetic engineering is also shunned by some well organized and well
              funded environmental protection groups.

              *3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
              arts.*

              I dunno man. Art has so much to thank religion for. The Statue of David,
              the Sistine Chapel, The School of Athens by Raphael...architecture, a whole
              innumerable body of literature, poetry, drama had been inspired by religion,
              or where born because of persecution by established religion, where directly
              commissioned by the Pope or devout Christian patrons. Before Christianity,
              Gods and Goddesses, deities and demigods where portrayed in vases, busts and
              sculptures. The great temple cities of Borobudur and Angkor Wat where
              Buddhist monuments. The great pyramids where raised from the ground
              because of the irresistible urgings of God kings. To further illustrate,
              the most beautiful and intricate of pots and vessels from ancient china,
              where ceremonial...the only reason they adorned such things was because they
              were appeasing entities beyond the temporal.

              * what do you think?*

              * How does it strenghten or benefit society?*

              *Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
              there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..*

              Oh yes it does! Churchill was invoking God when he was calling on his
              people to sacrifice and give everything for Britain. Hitler was invoking
              God to rally the Nazis against the world. God was behind the Great and
              destructive crusades, and God was with the Muslim defenders who were simply
              defending their way of life and land from the onslaught of conquerors from
              Europe.

              God was behind the Moros when they defended their land from the Spaniards
              and Christianized Indios. And, God was behind the Indios as they marched to
              their death into the lands of the Moros.

              Religion does bring people together. It does that so well that it can rally
              peace loving people to their death.

              And on a final note... Religion is not always the real reason behind wars.
              It most often legitimizes wars though and is used to rally the masses to
              pick up their pitchforks for the benefit of ruling elites.

              ANG HABA NITO! HEHEHE ^_^

              On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Romeo Macapobre
              <romeo.macapobre@...>wrote:

              > My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
              > weaken society because:
              >
              > 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
              > homosexuals / minorities.
              > 2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
              > medicine) progress.
              > 3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
              > arts.
              >
              > what do you think?
              >
              > How does it strenghten or benefit society?
              >
              > Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
              > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..
              >
              > --
              > apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
              > apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • suntoksabwan
              YAN KASI YAN KASI YAN KASI!!! Hindi kasi nagbabasa ng bible e. Tsk tsk tsk! T_T ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 20 8:50 PM
                YAN KASI YAN KASI YAN KASI!!!

                Hindi kasi nagbabasa ng bible e. Tsk tsk tsk!

                T_T





                On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:47 AM, jose mario sison <joma_sison@...>wrote:

                > suntok,
                > not St Paul, its Peter.
                >
                > suntoksabwan <suntoksabwan@... <suntoksabwan%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                > * 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
                >
                > homosexuals / minorities.*
                >
                > It is hard to generalize because religion per se also refers to other
                > belief
                > systems such as animism (Shinto I think, Native American Indian beliefs,
                > and the reverence of our ancestors towards forest spirits and the likes),
                > Hinduism and Buddhism to name a few. They all have different ways in
                > dealing with rights of women (our ancestors for one have priestesses and
                > medicine women which their society held with high regards), in dealing with
                > minorities (some Christian and Catholic sects have arisen because they have
                > been adopted by exactly those who were marginalized), and in some systems
                > of
                > belief deals with homosexuals in different ways. Catholics for one tend to
                > be more "lenient" towards homosexuals as compared to muslims. Hindus I
                > think have a system of belief relating to homosexuals. I've read of islands
                > in the pacific that encourages young men to try their stuff out with other
                > men before getting married (practice ba).
                >
                > You might be referring to the Catholic Church exclusively. I cannot deny
                > that the Catholic Church is definitely patriarchal and they have their
                > scriptures (from St. Paul apparently which happens to be their first pope)
                > to back up that "arrangement" so to speak. There are however, non-catholic
                > churches that are open to women preachers.
                >
                > Plus, the catholic church in the Philippines has been very active in
                > lobbying for measures to protect women against violence and exploitation
                > from... men. Other system of beliefs are not very "women" friendly and are
                > aggressive in suppressing women from their participation in politics and in
                > the economy.
                >
                > The thing is with regards going against progress, religion along with
                > culture, along with established societal classes, along with established
                > values, along with established governments and power structures, will
                > inevitably resist social changes or movements.
                >
                > Institutions tend to resist change.
                >
                > *2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
                > medicine) progress.*
                >
                > I dunno about this. Many medical researches are being done by
                > Catholic-Christian sponsored Universities and Hospitals all over the world.
                > But because of the nature of these institutions, certain researches are not
                > funded because of... as they say, moral and ethical reasons. Stem cell
                > research and genetic engineering are researches that are apparently tabooed
                > in such institutions.
                >
                > But, genetic engineering is also shunned by some well organized and well
                > funded environmental protection groups.
                >
                > *3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
                > arts.*
                >
                > I dunno man. Art has so much to thank religion for. The Statue of David,
                > the Sistine Chapel, The School of Athens by Raphael...architecture, a whole
                > innumerable body of literature, poetry, drama had been inspired by
                > religion,
                > or where born because of persecution by established religion, where
                > directly
                > commissioned by the Pope or devout Christian patrons. Before Christianity,
                > Gods and Goddesses, deities and demigods where portrayed in vases, busts
                > and
                > sculptures. The great temple cities of Borobudur and Angkor Wat where
                > Buddhist monuments. The great pyramids where raised from the ground
                > because of the irresistible urgings of God kings. To further illustrate,
                > the most beautiful and intricate of pots and vessels from ancient china,
                > where ceremonial...the only reason they adorned such things was because
                > they
                > were appeasing entities beyond the temporal.
                >
                > * what do you think?*
                >
                > * How does it strenghten or benefit society?*
                >
                > *Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
                > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..*
                >
                > Oh yes it does! Churchill was invoking God when he was calling on his
                > people to sacrifice and give everything for Britain. Hitler was invoking
                > God to rally the Nazis against the world. God was behind the Great and
                > destructive crusades, and God was with the Muslim defenders who were simply
                > defending their way of life and land from the onslaught of conquerors from
                > Europe.
                >
                > God was behind the Moros when they defended their land from the Spaniards
                > and Christianized Indios. And, God was behind the Indios as they marched to
                > their death into the lands of the Moros.
                >
                > Religion does bring people together. It does that so well that it can rally
                > peace loving people to their death.
                >
                > And on a final note... Religion is not always the real reason behind wars.
                > It most often legitimizes wars though and is used to rally the masses to
                > pick up their pitchforks for the benefit of ruling elites.
                >
                > ANG HABA NITO! HEHEHE ^_^
                >
                > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Romeo Macapobre
                > <romeo.macapobre@... <romeo.macapobre%40gmail.com>>wrote:
                >
                > > My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
                > > weaken society because:
                > >
                > > 1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
                > > homosexuals / minorities.
                > > 2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
                > > medicine) progress.
                > > 3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the
                > > arts.
                > >
                > > what do you think?
                > >
                > > How does it strenghten or benefit society?
                > >
                > > Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
                > > there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..
                > >
                > > --
                > > apprenons francais [rmacapobre-french.blogspot.com].
                > > apprenons max [rmacapobre.blogspot.com].
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • doug john
                Dear Romeo,   I think the main reason for the war in Mindanao, or at least the excuse for it, is because whilst professing seperation of religion from
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 20 9:10 PM
                  Dear Romeo,
                   
                  I think the main reason for the war in Mindanao, or at least the excuse for it, is because whilst professing seperation of religion from Government, the Philippine elite to all extent and purpose adopted Catholicism as a guide to government policy. This has provided Moslems with a motive to have Islam as part of government in their regions.
                   
                  Just a thought,
                   
                  Cheers Doug Adam
                   


                  --- On Tue, 21/10/08, Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@...> wrote:

                  From: Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@...>
                  Subject: [pinoy_atheists] religion weakens society
                  To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, atheisthaven@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Tuesday, 21 October, 2008, 12:26 PM






                  My point of view is religion (and the church which follow them) does
                  weaken society because:

                  1. it goes against social progress. against rights for women /
                  homosexuals / minorities.
                  2. it goes against scientific (different branches of science including
                  medicine) progress.
                  3. it goes against freedom of speech and expression in culture and the arts.

                  what do you think?

                  How does it strenghten or benefit society?

                  Does it bring people together? I do not see this happening. Why is
                  there war in mindanao? Religion causes wars ..

                  --
                  apprenons francais [rmacapobre- french.blogspot. com].
                  apprenons max [rmacapobre. blogspot. com].














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