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Re: Common Believers

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  • Hans
    Well, in praying, aside from talking to yourself, doesn t do anything but wasting one s time. the counter argument is so old that i dont find myself amused
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 31, 2008
      Well, in praying, aside from talking to yourself, doesn't do anything
      but wasting one's time. the counter argument is so old that i dont
      find myself amused with (i've used it so many times when i was an
      evange). The ext question is how do you get god's answers?
    • Hans
      Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old testament in hebrew form
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
        Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young
        woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old
        testament in hebrew form was Yum Suph, literally means Reed Sea, or
        Sea of Read. I really have no idea how it came so mistranslated but my
        hitch is that the reader of the pentateuch wanted to highten the
        miracles stated in the exodus.

        Even the exodus should stand to be corrected. The whole event of the
        exodus can be attributed to a natural calamity around 1500 BCE which
        is the eruption of Thera (modern day Santorini). It is an island
        volcano north of Egypt. all the event in exodus from the parting of
        the Sea, locust, frog, the pillar of fire and the darkening of the sky
        has been found to be an effect of that catasthropic event. the
        eruption was 100 times greater than Mt. Vesuvius when it erupted in
        79CE and destroyed the city of Pompei and Herculanium.
      • Hans
        ...Red sea and see of reeds, I honestly didn t know about that. I definitely have to read some more. Watch Discovery Channel s Who was Moses ..
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
          ...Red sea and see of reeds, I honestly didn't know about that. I
          definitely have to read some more.

          Watch Discovery Channel's 'Who was Moses'..
        • eduardo barot
          Isa lang yun bilib akong moses eh Si Moses Malone. Yeah!!!   He he ... From: Hans Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Common Believers To:
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
            Isa lang yun bilib akong moses eh

            Si Moses Malone. Yeah!!!
             
            He he
            --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Hans <manredfc@...> wrote:

            From: Hans <manredfc@...>
            Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Common Believers
            To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 12:22 AM






            ....Red sea and see of reeds, I honestly didn't know about that. I
            definitely have to read some more.

            Watch Discovery Channel's 'Who was Moses'..


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            It s actually fun to hypothesize ,that if the events portrayed in the bible were true, what scientific explanation could there be for it? Like as you said, the
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
              It's actually fun to hypothesize ,that if the events portrayed in the bible were true, what scientific explanation could there be for it?

              Like as you said, the parting of the Red Sea. Could it have been low tide and there was a land bridge that appeared? Could it have been a tsunami that coincidentally made landfall after Moses and the Israelites walked past?


              Or how about Jesus' walking on water, raising the dead, making more fish and bread out of only a few, turning water into wine, etc. Coincidentally, all these tricks can be performed by modern day magicians...


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Hans <manredfc@...>
              To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 11:48:11 AM
              Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Common Believers


              People should know, based on history, that faith can never move
              mountains so much as donkey can not fit in the eye of a needle.

              If prayer works then we dont need doctors, architects, engineers, and
              there should even be no police. but time and time again, over and
              over, it never worked. it never will.

              what i can understand is that this well intellectual people, with
              respectable status and well educated can not understand that walking
              on water is dead impossible. much more resurrection.

              we experiment alot of thing in the lab when we wer students, from
              chemistry to physics. it just baffles me that people think the red sea
              was actually parted by moses.

              common, it is not the red sea, it is the sea of reeds, barely 4 feet
              deep. and it was not moses who did it, it was the tsunami created by
              thera explosion.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eduardo barot
              If it can be explained by science then its not a miracle. Right?   Christian apologists use science to explain the parting of the red sea. They now depend on
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                If it can be explained by science then its not a miracle. Right?
                 
                Christian apologists use science to explain the parting of the red sea. They now depend on science to make their claims sound true and believable.

                --- On Fri, 8/1/08, John <harmless168@...> wrote:

                From: John <harmless168@...>
                Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Common Believers
                To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 12:26 AM






                It's actually fun to hypothesize ,that if the events portrayed in the bible were true, what scientific explanation could there be for it?

                Like as you said, the parting of the Red Sea. Could it have been low tide and there was a land bridge that appeared? Could it have been a tsunami that coincidentally made landfall after Moses and the Israelites walked past?

                Or how about Jesus' walking on water, raising the dead, making more fish and bread out of only a few, turning water into wine, etc. Coincidentally, all these tricks can be performed by modern day magicians...

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Hans <manredfc@yahoo. com.sg>
                To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 11:48:11 AM
                Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Common Believers

                People should know, based on history, that faith can never move
                mountains so much as donkey can not fit in the eye of a needle.

                If prayer works then we dont need doctors, architects, engineers, and
                there should even be no police. but time and time again, over and
                over, it never worked. it never will.

                what i can understand is that this well intellectual people, with
                respectable status and well educated can not understand that walking
                on water is dead impossible. much more resurrection.

                we experiment alot of thing in the lab when we wer students, from
                chemistry to physics. it just baffles me that people think the red sea
                was actually parted by moses.

                common, it is not the red sea, it is the sea of reeds, barely 4 feet
                deep. and it was not moses who did it, it was the tsunami created by
                thera explosion.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Hans
                they make their own science. telling people they have found a chariot s wheel under the read sea. they havent probably knew of the eruption of thera. the
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                  they make their own science. telling people they have found a
                  chariot's wheel under the read sea. they havent probably knew of the
                  eruption of thera. the pharoah wasnt even ramses the great.

                  for 40years they have wandered the sinai desert yet scholars havent
                  found any track of these nomadic people like poteries or even bones
                  from animals or human.
                • John
                  And to her I would say: Then prayer is useless, because even without it you would get the same results, and you d still get to know god s will. ... From:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                    And to her I would say:

                    "Then prayer is useless, because even without it you would get the same results, and you'd still get to know god's will."



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "Michael Muin, MD" <mikemuin@...>
                    To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 2:14:43 PM
                    Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Common Believers


                    As I say to my Christian friends, if God is omniscient and omnipotent,
                    you don't need prayers. Because everything is God's will, then prayers
                    should not affect the outcome because the outcome has be
                    pre-determined by God. If God changes his mind because of prayer, then
                    he is not omniscient because he will not know the outcome because he
                    can change his mind--very much like humans.

                    I did get a very good counterpoint from my Evangelical friend. Prayer,
                    she says, is not to change God's mind, but our instrument to know
                    God's will. It is not to change the course of a disease or event but
                    to let us have peace in God's will. That was good, I must say.

                    On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Hans <manredfc@yahoo. com.sg> wrote:

                    > If prayer works then we dont need doctors, architects, engineers, and
                    > there should even be no police. but time and time again, over and
                    > over, it never worked. it never will.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    AFAIK, Jewish archaeologists have been fervently trying to find evidence of an actual exodus. If a large group of humans were traveling across a land for 40
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                      AFAIK, Jewish archaeologists have been fervently trying to find evidence of an actual exodus. If a large group of humans were traveling across a land for 40 years, you'd get lots and lots of artifacts and debris. So far up to now, none have been found.



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Hans <manredfc@...>
                      To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:02:56 PM
                      Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Reed Sea not Red Sea


                      Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young
                      woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old
                      testament in hebrew form was Yum Suph, literally means Reed Sea, or
                      Sea of Read. I really have no idea how it came so mistranslated but my
                      hitch is that the reader of the pentateuch wanted to highten the
                      miracles stated in the exodus.

                      Even the exodus should stand to be corrected. The whole event of the
                      exodus can be attributed to a natural calamity around 1500 BCE which
                      is the eruption of Thera (modern day Santorini). It is an island
                      volcano north of Egypt. all the event in exodus from the parting of
                      the Sea, locust, frog, the pillar of fire and the darkening of the sky
                      has been found to be an effect of that catasthropic event. the
                      eruption was 100 times greater than Mt. Vesuvius when it erupted in
                      79CE and destroyed the city of Pompei and Herculanium.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Igmidio Galingan
                      I suggest you read up on communication theories. Inaccuracies, discrepancies, can be cause be caused by a lot of factors including storytellers embellishing
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                        I suggest you read up on communication theories.

                        Inaccuracies, discrepancies, can be cause be caused by a lot of
                        factors including storytellers embellishing facts or even lying.

                        History will never be 100% seen says Bob Woodward.

                        There is what you can remember through actual facts and evidence
                        There is how you remember it meaning perspective.
                        There is what you want to remember


                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: Hans <manredfc@...>
                        > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:02:56 PM
                        > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Reed Sea not Red Sea
                        >
                        >
                        > Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young
                        > woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old
                        > testament in hebrew form was Yum Suph, literally means Reed Sea, or
                        > Sea of Read. I really have no idea how it came so mistranslated but my
                        > hitch is that the reader of the pentateuch wanted to highten the
                        > miracles stated in the exodus.
                        >
                        > Even the exodus should stand to be corrected. The whole event of the
                        > exodus can be attributed to a natural calamity around 1500 BCE which
                        > is the eruption of Thera (modern day Santorini). It is an island
                        > volcano north of Egypt. all the event in exodus from the parting of
                        > the Sea, locust, frog, the pillar of fire and the darkening of the sky
                        > has been found to be an effect of that catasthropic event. the
                        > eruption was 100 times greater than Mt. Vesuvius when it erupted in
                        > 79CE and destroyed the city of Pompei and Herculanium.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Mike Lopez
                        Wow wow and wow! Thanks for these info people. Really interesting. As for history, I do agree that it will never be 100% accurate. :) ... -- Mike Lopez
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                          Wow wow and wow! Thanks for these info people. Really interesting.
                          As for history, I do agree that it will never be 100% accurate. :)

                          On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Igmidio Galingan <ipgalingan@...> wrote:
                          > I suggest you read up on communication theories.
                          >
                          > Inaccuracies, discrepancies, can be cause be caused by a lot of
                          > factors including storytellers embellishing facts or even lying.
                          >
                          > History will never be 100% seen says Bob Woodward.
                          >
                          > There is what you can remember through actual facts and evidence
                          > There is how you remember it meaning perspective.
                          > There is what you want to remember
                          >
                          >> ----- Original Message ----
                          >> From: Hans <manredfc@...>
                          >> To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:02:56 PM
                          >> Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Reed Sea not Red Sea
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young
                          >> woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old
                          >> testament in hebrew form was Yum Suph, literally means Reed Sea, or
                          >> Sea of Read. I really have no idea how it came so mistranslated but my
                          >> hitch is that the reader of the pentateuch wanted to highten the
                          >> miracles stated in the exodus.
                          >>
                          >> Even the exodus should stand to be corrected. The whole event of the
                          >> exodus can be attributed to a natural calamity around 1500 BCE which
                          >> is the eruption of Thera (modern day Santorini). It is an island
                          >> volcano north of Egypt. all the event in exodus from the parting of
                          >> the Sea, locust, frog, the pillar of fire and the darkening of the sky
                          >> has been found to be an effect of that catasthropic event. the
                          >> eruption was 100 times greater than Mt. Vesuvius when it erupted in
                          >> 79CE and destroyed the city of Pompei and Herculanium.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          Mike Lopez
                          http://mikelopez.info/
                        • Hans
                          History always depends on many matters. but to have many referrence saying exactly the same thing is something. and history reinforced with evidence, tangible
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
                            History always depends on many matters. but to have many referrence
                            saying exactly the same thing is something. and history reinforced
                            with evidence, tangible evidence or if not, can be scientifically
                            countercheck is the best weapon against theology.
                          • tony
                            Hi Igme, that s right. I cannot even remember what was my dinner a week ago! :) cheers! T ... but my ... sky
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 2, 2008
                              Hi Igme, that's right. I cannot even remember what was my dinner a
                              week ago! :)

                              cheers!
                              T

                              --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "Igmidio Galingan"
                              <ipgalingan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I suggest you read up on communication theories.
                              >
                              > Inaccuracies, discrepancies, can be cause be caused by a lot of
                              > factors including storytellers embellishing facts or even lying.
                              >
                              > History will never be 100% seen says Bob Woodward.
                              >
                              > There is what you can remember through actual facts and evidence
                              > There is how you remember it meaning perspective.
                              > There is what you want to remember
                              >
                              >
                              > > ----- Original Message ----
                              > > From: Hans <manredfc@>
                              > > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 3:02:56 PM
                              > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Reed Sea not Red Sea
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Red sea was a mistranslation of See of Reeds. Much like almah (young
                              > > woman) and betulah (virgin). the original translation of the old
                              > > testament in hebrew form was Yum Suph, literally means Reed Sea, or
                              > > Sea of Read. I really have no idea how it came so mistranslated
                              but my
                              > > hitch is that the reader of the pentateuch wanted to highten the
                              > > miracles stated in the exodus.
                              > >
                              > > Even the exodus should stand to be corrected. The whole event of the
                              > > exodus can be attributed to a natural calamity around 1500 BCE which
                              > > is the eruption of Thera (modern day Santorini). It is an island
                              > > volcano north of Egypt. all the event in exodus from the parting of
                              > > the Sea, locust, frog, the pillar of fire and the darkening of the
                              sky
                              > > has been found to be an effect of that catasthropic event. the
                              > > eruption was 100 times greater than Mt. Vesuvius when it erupted in
                              > > 79CE and destroyed the city of Pompei and Herculanium.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
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