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Re: 144,000 only?

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  • von cortes
    ... Revelations It s grand Climax at Hand!
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 9, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      >>You can read all that on one of their publications
      "Revelations It's grand Climax at Hand!"<<

      Really!? They have a book with such a title?
      Sounds like a Hand-Job Manual to me. I didn't
      realize JWs are wankers! Jesus Wankers, perhaps.
      LOL! :)





      --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "angel2bright" <angel2bright@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Jonathan.
      >
      > Well, you know christians vary when it comes to biblical hermeneutics.
      > ( I'd rather call it "hermit-lunatics) sorry for the crude language ...
      > anyways ...
      >
      > I know you're aware that these fellas can't agree when it comes to
      > Biblical interpretation so don't bother wasting your precious time on
      > some fuzzy-wussy old-wives tales which are nothing but a pain in the ass
      > (so to speak).
      >
      > After all, it's a nut-job right?
      >
      > For curiosity's sake nonetheless, let me share with you something I've
      > learned from xtian demonisations (uhh ... denominations rather) I've
      > previously joined in.
      >
      > In a nutshell:
      >
      > Jehovah's witnesses believe that heaven will be reserved for the 144,000
      > chosen by God (jehovah, of course) to rule with christ in the millenium
      > and beyond.
      >
      > You can read all that on one of their publications "Revelations It's
      > grand Climax at Hand!" on Chapter 19, pp. 113 thru 118.
      >
      > On page 118, the first president and well-known founder of the Jehovah's
      > Witnesses, Charles Taze Russel ...
      >
      > "recognized the 144,000 to be a LITERAL NUMBER of individuals making up
      > a SPIRITUAL Israel."
      >
      > (All EMPHASIS mine)
      >
      > Very oddly though, not one of em could even name his tribe.
      >
      > In my previous associations with members of the JW, I also found out
      > that it is only members of the 144K who have teh priviledge of partaking
      > the bread n' wine during passover (or what they call "The Memorial")
      >
      > ... since only these guys are counted worthy to rule and reign, divide
      > and plunder (LoL) with christ ...
      >
      > What do we care it's a myth after all (Like Homer's Iliad, Valhalla and
      > Olympus ... ) blah blah blah ...
      >
      > so valhalla na ...
      >
      > On the other hand, other xtian sects like the fundies I've been to
      > believe that these guys (Ie. the 144,000) make up literal Israel who are
      > Messianic Jews (meaning, they are the ones who have "accepted Yeshua as
      > their Adonay and Mashiach Ie. Lord n' Saviour")
      >
      > Heck ... the same ol' expression
      >
      > Priests in the Roman Catholic church no doubt believe that these men are
      > literally celibates
      >
      > (or reprobates) ??? LoL ...
      >
      > As a former fundie (in the church where I'm at) I personally believe the
      > phrase
      >
      > "These were they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins"
      > ...
      >
      > is not one to be taken literally.
      >
      > because in the succeeding verses we can read that
      >
      > "in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before
      > The Throne of God.
      >
      > "To be a virgin, in the spiritual context means moral purity, one that
      > is not "defiled by women" or more succintly, not a "carnal" person
      > learned in the ways of this world, that is, a spiritual adulterer (cp.
      > James 4:4) and one who is wholeheartedly devoted to christ body and soul
      > (2 Cor. 11:2)
      >
      > as a chaste virgin .... (wooohhh) ...
      >
      > although I believe that they are largely made up of jewish believers
      > (messianics, what else?) because the jewish people in the OTestament
      > times were like a spouse, a bride---spiritually "married" to their God,
      > Jehovah YHVH or "Ha-Shem" as the Jews wish to pronounce it. (cp.
      > Jeremiah 2:2-3; 31:32)
      >
      > As for the large multitude---the "great crowd" coming out of all nations
      > and tribes and peoples and tongues," on ch. 7:9 ff. well, these are
      > those who are grafted into spiritual Israel (God's olive tree, cp.
      > Romans 11:17-18), fellow-citizens of the saints and household of god
      > (ephesians 2:19), who were born not from blood (or coming not from the
      > "royal bloodline of earthly Israel") but from God. (John 1:13)
      >
      > These are the children of "Jerusalem which is from above" (Isa. 49:
      > 7-21; 54:1-3 & Gal. 4:26-27) ...
      >
      > and so they married (Hosea 2:18:20: Psalm 45:1-17; 85:10; Rev. 19:7-9)
      >
      > and lived happily ever after ...
      >
      > beautiful tale am i right?
      >
      > Don't buy it dude. That was who I was but now things changed ...
      >
      > (Phew! Those were the days my friend, we thought theyd never end we'd
      > sing and dance ... lalala ...)
      >
      > No preaching folks, just sharing!
      >
      > Anyways, hope that satisfies ur wildest imaginations,
      >
      > Rai
      >
      >
      > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, Euri <nvr_existed@> wrote:
      > >
      > > tonight, my mind is at it's norrowest.
      > > the attachment only meant these for me.
      > > (i'll read them again, in the morning, though.)
      > >
      > > males that are not defiled by women are gays.
      > > because a man that refuses a woman might prefer another man.
      > > a man that hits another man is a gay.
      > >
      > > therefore, only such gays go to heaven?
      > >
      > > please tell me i'm a lunatic.
      > >
      > > ~euri
      > >
      > > doug john wrote:
      > > Hello Johnathan,
      > >
      > > Please open attachment
      > >
      > > The way I understand it is that the 144,000 males are those not
      > defiledby women, that is they are virgins. Note that women are
      > considerinferior in the Bible and anyone man that has intercourse with
      > them is"Defiled"
      > >
      > > Some believe that they only form a choir.
      > >
      > > Church of Christ sects say that they are the ones who will
      > administerGods Kingdom when it comes down to earth and all the dead
      > people whohave led good lives will be resurrected with the good ones
      > still alivewhen the time comes.
      > >
      > > Jehovah witnessess also believe that there is no more room in
      > heaven,the real "super dooper" heaven will be as it says in the Lords
      > Prayer."Gods Kingdom Come on Earth as it is in heaven." It was supposed
      > tohave come about two thousand years ago!
      > >
      > > Some believe in "The Tooth Fairy" also, it is not hard to do if
      > yourelly concentrate.
      > >
      > > Please open attachment I think you will find it interesting.
      > >
      > > Regards
      > >
      > > Doug Adam
      > >
      > > von cortes element_115x@...: From the biblical standpoint, I
      > think those 144,000 are gonna
      > > be Israelites only. It says in the verse you mentioned they'll be
      > > from the tribes of the children of Israel. There will be more than
      > > 144,000 who will be 'saved'. Check out Revelations 7:9 which
      > > points at the great multitude in white robes.
      > >
      > > I could be wrong of course, just my 2 cents worth.
      > > I'm no expert in mythology. :)
      > >
      > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com,"Jonathan" jmfrancisco.geo@
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > In Revelations 7:3-4, it says only 144,000 men (males?) willreceive
      > > > the mark as their passport to heaven. Now, we all know that thereare
      > > > probably millions (at the least) 'True' christians out there.
      > > >
      > > > If it's true that 144,000 only will be accepted in heaven thenmost
      > of
      > > > the christian faithfuls' faith will be in vain. Right?
      > > >
      > > > I asked a christian regarding this and he answered: "thats not
      > forall
      > > > time, and thats the witnesses, you dont have to be a witness to be
      > > > saved". And I'm like... What?
      > > >
      > > > Can somebody explain me this from the christian perspective and, of
      > > > course, from the infidel's standpoint.
      > > >
      > > > Have a great day all!
      > > > -Jonathan-
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Yahoo! Music: Check out the gig guide for live music in your area
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > >
      > > "What if the God we knew isn't God? What if Satan is the real god?"
      > > - Lex Luther, Smallville
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • angel2bright
      for Von, Believe me Von, they do. Actually I have my own personal copy of their book with that Title (being a former proselyte of the cult). It was
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 9, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        for Von,

        Believe me Von, they do. Actually I have my own personal copy of their
        book with that Title (being a former proselyte of the cult). It was
        published in 1988 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of
        Pennsylvania.

        Here are some recommended sites for you to take a look at:

        http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/8bdcf09cbd0c2296a19afeb4da09e52\
        6.html
        <http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/8bdcf09cbd0c2296a19afeb4da09e5\
        26.html>

        and

        http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AV1O90/002-7763485-9205637?v=glance\
        &n=283155
        <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AV1O90/002-7763485-9205637?v=glanc\
        e&n=283155>

        Warm Hugs,
        A.R.

        PS.

        Jesus Wankers? Well, what do we expect? W all know these fellas are
        comical [:)] ...


        --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "von cortes" <element_115x@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > >>You can read all that on one of their publications
        > "Revelations It's grand Climax at Hand!"<<
        >
        > Really!? They have a book with such a title?
        > Sounds like a Hand-Job Manual to me. I didn't
        > realize JWs are wankers! Jesus Wankers, perhaps.
        > LOL! :)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "angel2bright" angel2bright@
        wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Jonathan.
        > >
        > > Well, you know christians vary when it comes to biblical
        hermeneutics.
        > > ( I'd rather call it "hermit-lunatics) sorry for the crude language
        ...
        > > anyways ...
        > >
        > > I know you're aware that these fellas can't agree when it comes to
        > > Biblical interpretation so don't bother wasting your precious time
        on
        > > some fuzzy-wussy old-wives tales which are nothing but a pain in the
        ass
        > > (so to speak).
        > >
        > > After all, it's a nut-job right?
        > >
        > > For curiosity's sake nonetheless, let me share with you something
        I've
        > > learned from xtian demonisations (uhh ... denominations rather) I've
        > > previously joined in.
        > >
        > > In a nutshell:
        > >
        > > Jehovah's witnesses believe that heaven will be reserved for the
        144,000
        > > chosen by God (jehovah, of course) to rule with christ in the
        millenium
        > > and beyond.
        > >
        > > You can read all that on one of their publications "Revelations It's
        > > grand Climax at Hand!" on Chapter 19, pp. 113 thru 118.
        > >
        > > On page 118, the first president and well-known founder of the
        Jehovah's
        > > Witnesses, Charles Taze Russel ...
        > >
        > > "recognized the 144,000 to be a LITERAL NUMBER of individuals making
        up
        > > a SPIRITUAL Israel."
        > >
        > > (All EMPHASIS mine)
        > >
        > > Very oddly though, not one of em could even name his tribe.
        > >
        > > In my previous associations with members of the JW, I also found out
        > > that it is only members of the 144K who have teh priviledge of
        partaking
        > > the bread n' wine during passover (or what they call "The Memorial")
        > >
        > > ... since only these guys are counted worthy to rule and reign,
        divide
        > > and plunder (LoL) with christ ...
        > >
        > > What do we care it's a myth after all (Like Homer's Iliad, Valhalla
        and
        > > Olympus ... ) blah blah blah ...
        > >
        > > so valhalla na ...
        > >
        > > On the other hand, other xtian sects like the fundies I've been to
        > > believe that these guys (Ie. the 144,000) make up literal Israel who
        are
        > > Messianic Jews (meaning, they are the ones who have "accepted Yeshua
        as
        > > their Adonay and Mashiach Ie. Lord n' Saviour")
        > >
        > > Heck ... the same ol' expression
        > >
        > > Priests in the Roman Catholic church no doubt believe that these men
        are
        > > literally celibates
        > >
        > > (or reprobates) ??? LoL ...
        > >
        > > As a former fundie (in the church where I'm at) I personally believe
        the
        > > phrase
        > >
        > > "These were they that were not defiled with women; for they are
        virgins"
        > > ...
        > >
        > > is not one to be taken literally.
        > >
        > > because in the succeeding verses we can read that
        > >
        > > "in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault
        before
        > > The Throne of God.
        > >
        > > "To be a virgin, in the spiritual context means moral purity, one
        that
        > > is not "defiled by women" or more succintly, not a "carnal" person
        > > learned in the ways of this world, that is, a spiritual adulterer
        (cp.
        > > James 4:4) and one who is wholeheartedly devoted to christ body and
        soul
        > > (2 Cor. 11:2)
        > >
        > > as a chaste virgin .... (wooohhh) ...
        > >
        > > although I believe that they are largely made up of jewish believers
        > > (messianics, what else?) because the jewish people in the OTestament
        > > times were like a spouse, a bride---spiritually "married" to their
        God,
        > > Jehovah YHVH or "Ha-Shem" as the Jews wish to pronounce it. (cp.
        > > Jeremiah 2:2-3; 31:32)
        > >
        > > As for the large multitude---the "great crowd" coming out of all
        nations
        > > and tribes and peoples and tongues," on ch. 7:9 ff. well, these are
        > > those who are grafted into spiritual Israel (God's olive tree, cp.
        > > Romans 11:17-18), fellow-citizens of the saints and household of god
        > > (ephesians 2:19), who were born not from blood (or coming not from
        the
        > > "royal bloodline of earthly Israel") but from God. (John 1:13)
        > >
        > > These are the children of "Jerusalem which is from above" (Isa. 49:
        > > 7-21; 54:1-3 & Gal. 4:26-27) ...
        > >
        > > and so they married (Hosea 2:18:20: Psalm 45:1-17; 85:10; Rev.
        19:7-9)
        > >
        > > and lived happily ever after ...
        > >
        > > beautiful tale am i right?
        > >
        > > Don't buy it dude. That was who I was but now things changed ...
        > >
        > > (Phew! Those were the days my friend, we thought theyd never end
        we'd
        > > sing and dance ... lalala ...)
        > >
        > > No preaching folks, just sharing!
        > >
        > > Anyways, hope that satisfies ur wildest imaginations,
        > >
        > > Rai
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, Euri <nvr_existed@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > tonight, my mind is at it's norrowest.
        > > > the attachment only meant these for me.
        > > > (i'll read them again, in the morning, though.)
        > > >
        > > > males that are not defiled by women are gays.
        > > > because a man that refuses a woman might prefer another man.
        > > > a man that hits another man is a gay.
        > > >
        > > > therefore, only such gays go to heaven?
        > > >
        > > > please tell me i'm a lunatic.
        > > >
        > > > ~euri
        > > >
        > > > doug john wrote:
        > > > Hello Johnathan,
        > > >
        > > > Please open attachment
        > > >
        > > > The way I understand it is that the 144,000 males are those not
        > > defiledby women, that is they are virgins. Note that women are
        > > considerinferior in the Bible and anyone man that has intercourse
        with
        > > them is"Defiled"
        > > >
        > > > Some believe that they only form a choir.
        > > >
        > > > Church of Christ sects say that they are the ones who will
        > > administerGods Kingdom when it comes down to earth and all the dead
        > > people whohave led good lives will be resurrected with the good ones
        > > still alivewhen the time comes.
        > > >
        > > > Jehovah witnessess also believe that there is no more room in
        > > heaven,the real "super dooper" heaven will be as it says in the
        Lords
        > > Prayer."Gods Kingdom Come on Earth as it is in heaven." It was
        supposed
        > > tohave come about two thousand years ago!
        > > >
        > > > Some believe in "The Tooth Fairy" also, it is not hard to do if
        > > yourelly concentrate.
        > > >
        > > > Please open attachment I think you will find it interesting.
        > > >
        > > > Regards
        > > >
        > > > Doug Adam
        > > >
        > > > von cortes element_115x@: From the biblical standpoint, I
        > > think those 144,000 are gonna
        > > > be Israelites only. It says in the verse you mentioned they'll be
        > > > from the tribes of the children of Israel. There will be more than
        > > > 144,000 who will be 'saved'. Check out Revelations 7:9 which
        > > > points at the great multitude in white robes.
        > > >
        > > > I could be wrong of course, just my 2 cents worth.
        > > > I'm no expert in mythology. :)
        > > >
        > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com,"Jonathan" jmfrancisco.geo@
        > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > In Revelations 7:3-4, it says only 144,000 men (males?)
        willreceive
        > > > > the mark as their passport to heaven. Now, we all know that
        thereare
        > > > > probably millions (at the least) 'True' christians out there.
        > > > >
        > > > > If it's true that 144,000 only will be accepted in heaven
        thenmost
        > > of
        > > > > the christian faithfuls' faith will be in vain. Right?
        > > > >
        > > > > I asked a christian regarding this and he answered: "thats not
        > > forall
        > > > > time, and thats the witnesses, you dont have to be a witness to
        be
        > > > > saved". And I'm like... What?
        > > > >
        > > > > Can somebody explain me this from the christian perspective and,
        of
        > > > > course, from the infidel's standpoint.
        > > > >
        > > > > Have a great day all!
        > > > > -Jonathan-
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > Yahoo! Music: Check out the gig guide for live music in your area
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > >
        > > > "What if the God we knew isn't God? What if Satan is the real
        god?"
        > > > - Lex Luther, Smallville
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • von cortes
        The amazon book review was quite useful by the way, the lone book reviewer has encouraged me not to buy the book! Hehe Religious nuts really do get nuttier by
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 12, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          The amazon book review was quite useful by the way,
          the lone book reviewer has encouraged me not to buy the book! Hehe
          Religious nuts really do get nuttier by the day. I guess
          all those years spent on knocking on doors has
          sent shock waves up their brains loosening some
          nuts up there!




          --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "angel2bright" <angel2bright@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > for Von,
          >
          > Believe me Von, they do. Actually I have my own personal copy of their
          > book with that Title (being a former proselyte of the cult). It was
          > published in 1988 by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of
          > Pennsylvania.
          >
          > Here are some recommended sites for you to take a look at:
          >
          > http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/8bdcf09cbd0c2296a19afeb4da09e52\
          > 6.html
          > <http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/8bdcf09cbd0c2296a19afeb4da09e5\
          > 26.html>
          >
          > and
          >
          > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AV1O90/002-7763485-9205637?v=glance
          \
          > &n=283155
          > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AV1O90/002-7763485-9205637?v=glanc
          \
          > e&n=283155>
          >
          > Warm Hugs,
          > A.R.
          >
          > PS.
          >
          > Jesus Wankers? Well, what do we expect? W all know these fellas are
          > comical [:)] ...
          >
          >
          > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "von cortes" <element_115x@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > >>You can read all that on one of their publications
          > > "Revelations It's grand Climax at Hand!"<<
          > >
          > > Really!? They have a book with such a title?
          > > Sounds like a Hand-Job Manual to me. I didn't
          > > realize JWs are wankers! Jesus Wankers, perhaps.
          > > LOL! :)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "angel2bright" angel2bright@
          > wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi Jonathan.
          > > >
          > > > Well, you know christians vary when it comes to biblical
          > hermeneutics.
          > > > ( I'd rather call it "hermit-lunatics) sorry for the crude language
          > ...
          > > > anyways ...
          > > >
          > > > I know you're aware that these fellas can't agree when it comes to
          > > > Biblical interpretation so don't bother wasting your precious time
          > on
          > > > some fuzzy-wussy old-wives tales which are nothing but a pain in the
          > ass
          > > > (so to speak).
          > > >
          > > > After all, it's a nut-job right?
          > > >
          > > > For curiosity's sake nonetheless, let me share with you something
          > I've
          > > > learned from xtian demonisations (uhh ... denominations rather) I've
          > > > previously joined in.
          > > >
          > > > In a nutshell:
          > > >
          > > > Jehovah's witnesses believe that heaven will be reserved for the
          > 144,000
          > > > chosen by God (jehovah, of course) to rule with christ in the
          > millenium
          > > > and beyond.
          > > >
          > > > You can read all that on one of their publications "Revelations It's
          > > > grand Climax at Hand!" on Chapter 19, pp. 113 thru 118.
          > > >
          > > > On page 118, the first president and well-known founder of the
          > Jehovah's
          > > > Witnesses, Charles Taze Russel ...
          > > >
          > > > "recognized the 144,000 to be a LITERAL NUMBER of individuals making
          > up
          > > > a SPIRITUAL Israel."
          > > >
          > > > (All EMPHASIS mine)
          > > >
          > > > Very oddly though, not one of em could even name his tribe.
          > > >
          > > > In my previous associations with members of the JW, I also found out
          > > > that it is only members of the 144K who have teh priviledge of
          > partaking
          > > > the bread n' wine during passover (or what they call "The Memorial")
          > > >
          > > > ... since only these guys are counted worthy to rule and reign,
          > divide
          > > > and plunder (LoL) with christ ...
          > > >
          > > > What do we care it's a myth after all (Like Homer's Iliad, Valhalla
          > and
          > > > Olympus ... ) blah blah blah ...
          > > >
          > > > so valhalla na ...
          > > >
          > > > On the other hand, other xtian sects like the fundies I've been to
          > > > believe that these guys (Ie. the 144,000) make up literal Israel who
          > are
          > > > Messianic Jews (meaning, they are the ones who have "accepted Yeshua
          > as
          > > > their Adonay and Mashiach Ie. Lord n' Saviour")
          > > >
          > > > Heck ... the same ol' expression
          > > >
          > > > Priests in the Roman Catholic church no doubt believe that these men
          > are
          > > > literally celibates
          > > >
          > > > (or reprobates) ??? LoL ...
          > > >
          > > > As a former fundie (in the church where I'm at) I personally believe
          > the
          > > > phrase
          > > >
          > > > "These were they that were not defiled with women; for they are
          > virgins"
          > > > ...
          > > >
          > > > is not one to be taken literally.
          > > >
          > > > because in the succeeding verses we can read that
          > > >
          > > > "in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault
          > before
          > > > The Throne of God.
          > > >
          > > > "To be a virgin, in the spiritual context means moral purity, one
          > that
          > > > is not "defiled by women" or more succintly, not a "carnal" person
          > > > learned in the ways of this world, that is, a spiritual adulterer
          > (cp.
          > > > James 4:4) and one who is wholeheartedly devoted to christ body and
          > soul
          > > > (2 Cor. 11:2)
          > > >
          > > > as a chaste virgin .... (wooohhh) ...
          > > >
          > > > although I believe that they are largely made up of jewish believers
          > > > (messianics, what else?) because the jewish people in the OTestament
          > > > times were like a spouse, a bride---spiritually "married" to their
          > God,
          > > > Jehovah YHVH or "Ha-Shem" as the Jews wish to pronounce it. (cp.
          > > > Jeremiah 2:2-3; 31:32)
          > > >
          > > > As for the large multitude---the "great crowd" coming out of all
          > nations
          > > > and tribes and peoples and tongues," on ch. 7:9 ff. well, these are
          > > > those who are grafted into spiritual Israel (God's olive tree, cp.
          > > > Romans 11:17-18), fellow-citizens of the saints and household of god
          > > > (ephesians 2:19), who were born not from blood (or coming not from
          > the
          > > > "royal bloodline of earthly Israel") but from God. (John 1:13)
          > > >
          > > > These are the children of "Jerusalem which is from above" (Isa. 49:
          > > > 7-21; 54:1-3 & Gal. 4:26-27) ...
          > > >
          > > > and so they married (Hosea 2:18:20: Psalm 45:1-17; 85:10; Rev.
          > 19:7-9)
          > > >
          > > > and lived happily ever after ...
          > > >
          > > > beautiful tale am i right?
          > > >
          > > > Don't buy it dude. That was who I was but now things changed ...
          > > >
          > > > (Phew! Those were the days my friend, we thought theyd never end
          > we'd
          > > > sing and dance ... lalala ...)
          > > >
          > > > No preaching folks, just sharing!
          > > >
          > > > Anyways, hope that satisfies ur wildest imaginations,
          > > >
          > > > Rai
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, Euri <nvr_existed@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > tonight, my mind is at it's norrowest.
          > > > > the attachment only meant these for me.
          > > > > (i'll read them again, in the morning, though.)
          > > > >
          > > > > males that are not defiled by women are gays.
          > > > > because a man that refuses a woman might prefer another man.
          > > > > a man that hits another man is a gay.
          > > > >
          > > > > therefore, only such gays go to heaven?
          > > > >
          > > > > please tell me i'm a lunatic.
          > > > >
          > > > > ~euri
          > > > >
          > > > > doug john wrote:
          > > > > Hello Johnathan,
          > > > >
          > > > > Please open attachment
          > > > >
          > > > > The way I understand it is that the 144,000 males are those not
          > > > defiledby women, that is they are virgins. Note that women are
          > > > considerinferior in the Bible and anyone man that has intercourse
          > with
          > > > them is"Defiled"
          > > > >
          > > > > Some believe that they only form a choir.
          > > > >
          > > > > Church of Christ sects say that they are the ones who will
          > > > administerGods Kingdom when it comes down to earth and all the dead
          > > > people whohave led good lives will be resurrected with the good ones
          > > > still alivewhen the time comes.
          > > > >
          > > > > Jehovah witnessess also believe that there is no more room in
          > > > heaven,the real "super dooper" heaven will be as it says in the
          > Lords
          > > > Prayer."Gods Kingdom Come on Earth as it is in heaven." It was
          > supposed
          > > > tohave come about two thousand years ago!
          > > > >
          > > > > Some believe in "The Tooth Fairy" also, it is not hard to do if
          > > > yourelly concentrate.
          > > > >
          > > > > Please open attachment I think you will find it interesting.
          > > > >
          > > > > Regards
          > > > >
          > > > > Doug Adam
          > > > >
          > > > > von cortes element_115x@: From the biblical standpoint, I
          > > > think those 144,000 are gonna
          > > > > be Israelites only. It says in the verse you mentioned they'll be
          > > > > from the tribes of the children of Israel. There will be more than
          > > > > 144,000 who will be 'saved'. Check out Revelations 7:9 which
          > > > > points at the great multitude in white robes.
          > > > >
          > > > > I could be wrong of course, just my 2 cents worth.
          > > > > I'm no expert in mythology. :)
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com,"Jonathan" jmfrancisco.geo@
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > In Revelations 7:3-4, it says only 144,000 men (males?)
          > willreceive
          > > > > > the mark as their passport to heaven. Now, we all know that
          > thereare
          > > > > > probably millions (at the least) 'True' christians out there.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > If it's true that 144,000 only will be accepted in heaven
          > thenmost
          > > > of
          > > > > > the christian faithfuls' faith will be in vain. Right?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I asked a christian regarding this and he answered: "thats not
          > > > forall
          > > > > > time, and thats the witnesses, you dont have to be a witness to
          > be
          > > > > > saved". And I'm like... What?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Can somebody explain me this from the christian perspective and,
          > of
          > > > > > course, from the infidel's standpoint.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Have a great day all!
          > > > > > -Jonathan-
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > > Yahoo! Music: Check out the gig guide for live music in your area
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > >
          > > > > "What if the God we knew isn't God? What if Satan is the real
          > god?"
          > > > > - Lex Luther, Smallville
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
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          >
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