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Re: A DIRECT REBUTTAL TO MISTERRIFIC

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  • Misterrific
    ... into a archtypical hero of sorts! And so the bad boy (me), has become the posterboy of hatred, huh? [M_Y]Do you care or object to being posterboy of
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 5, 2006
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      >>Oh boy, it seems that Eternal Bullshit has suddenly been alleviated
      into a archtypical hero of sorts! And so the bad boy (me), has become
      the posterboy of hatred, huh?

      [M_Y]Do you care or object to being "posterboy" of hatred, Roy? I
      don't think you give a rat's ass on what I or others think.
      ===============

      >>UN laws, you say? Well, fine then, perhaps let us evaluate them,
      shall we?

      [M_Y]Sure.
      ===============

      >>Article 1.
      All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They
      are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one
      another in a spirit of brotherhood.

      >>BEAST: Fair enough. No one said Bullshit never had the dignity and
      rights. He had them: till he gave them up through a series of
      bloopers, bad science, juvenile behaviour and a whole lot of lies.

      [M_Y] Please tell me how this perceived intellectual ineptness would
      make a human being loose his/her dignity and rights.

      With your juvenile behaviour, does this mean that we should consider
      your rights to be treated with dignity gone? Have you acted in a
      manner that promotes the spirit of brotherhood?
      ===============

      >>This law applies only when a human being behaves as one. It does
      not pertain to a tolerance of fools.

      [M_Y]Really? So how do you think we should treat you, then?

      Let's say, for argument's sake, that Eternal is a fool. Now everytime
      he surfaces and blurts out foolish words, you also come out and
      debunk/counter his foolishness. As per Obiwan Kenobi: who is the more
      foolish, the fool or the one who follows the fool?

      Every human being has equal rights to dignity, regardless of
      intellectual superiority or ineptness. The law does not put any
      conditions on this.

      The philosopher Immanuel Kant argued that the worst thing a person
      can do to another human being is to treat another person as mere
      means. There are 2 basic types of values – Intrinsic value and
      Instrumental value. Intrinsic value of something is the value of
      something "in itself" or "for it's own sake". For instance, having
      life can be said to be intrinsically good. With this, we can ask, why
      is it good or what makes having a life good? Some may say that having
      a life can enable you to do things. This then may lead to another
      question – what makes being able to do things good? And so on and so
      forth. Eventually, we would end up with something in line with… "it
      is good because it just is".

      Instrumental value is value of something derived from it's use. We
      can say that a "can opener" is valuable because it enables us to open
      cans. But take away the use of a "can opener", then there isn't
      anything left for the "can opener" a value can be given to.

      Let us apply this to a human being. If a human being has lost his/her
      use in society, does this make the value of life he/she has
      disappear? No, because life itself has value for it's own sake – it
      has an intrinsic value.

      Now you treat Eternal with utmost disrespect because of his
      intellectual ineptness. You imply that Eternal does not have the
      right to dignity because of his series of bloopers, bad science,
      juvenile behaviour and a whole lot of lies. With this, we can say
      that you probably believe that Eternal would have the right to
      dignity if he contributed good science and such. Why would a person's
      right to dignity be a function of his/her utility or
      use/contribution? Since he can't contribute "good science" or
      a "pleasing behaviour" to you, you treat him as good for nothing. You
      are treating another human being as mere means.

      The law goes beyond instrumental values because in each and everyone
      of us lies intrinsic values, regardless of our status or beliefs.
      ==================

      >>By the way, I exercise 0 tolerance for the likes of Eternal
      Bullshit.

      [M_Y]I hope, for your own sake, that you do not encounter someone
      who'll exercise 0 tolerance to the likes of you, Roy.
      ==================

      >>Article 2.

      Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this
      Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour,
      sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or
      social origin, property, birth or other status.

      >>Beast:I criticized him not because of his race. I criticized him
      for his lack of analytical power and his appalling lack of
      apprehension for anything scientific.

      [M_Y]To be critical of someone's thoughts is one thing. To maltreat a
      person is another. You maltreat Eternal because of his opinions. The
      law is clear that we (including Eternal) have the rights and freedoms
      without distinction of ANY kind. We may not like Eternal's opinions
      but you have no right to maltreat him because of that.
      ====================

      >>Article 3.
      Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

      >>Beast: He has every right to live his life, however delusional it
      may be.

      [M_Y] Yes and with that right to live comes his birth-given dignity
      that must be respected.
      ==============

      >>Article 5.

      >>No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or
      degrading treatment or punishment.

      >>Beast: You should ask the American soldiers. Not me. I haven't even
      touched Eternal Bullshit, and don't intend to.

      [M_Y]Torture, cruelty, degradation, and the likes are not limited to
      the physical. You have subjected Eternal to degradation and blatant
      cruelty with your words.
      =================

      >>Article 6.
      Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before
      the law.

      >>Beast: Yes. In fact, Eternal Bullshit was basking in his own
      limelight. We recognize him alright. As a incorrigible moron.

      [M_Y]You continue to disrespect Eternal's personhood – that's the big
      issue.
      =================

      >>Article 7.
      All are equal before the law and are entitled without any
      discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to
      equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this
      Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

      >>Beast: Woo!! So I am guilty of inciting discrimination!

      [M_Y]Are you surprised with this?
      ===================

      >>Hold your horses for a moment. When he began his incessant "ha ha
      has" and so on, did he for once think that people will discriminate
      him for his open use of juvenile sounds?

      [M_Y]Why don't you ask him yourself, Roy? But why would juvenile
      words/sounds give a go-signal to discrimination?
      =============

      >>By calling Carl Sagan a moron, did he justify himself? Did he show
      any respect for himself whatsoever?

      [M_Y]No he didn't. Look, I also do not agree with a lot of his ways,
      even Eternal knows that as I have told this to him both publicly and
      privately. He has his faults as well. But his faults do not give you
      (nor anyone else) the right to maltreat him and disrespect his
      family.
      ==============

      >>No one is discriminating him, Misterrific. He got his just
      desserts. Hell, he even claims he enjoyed the attention.

      [M_Y]I hope you are right and I am just mistaken on this, Roy.
      ==============

      >>Article 18.
      Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and
      religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or
      belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in
      public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching,
      practice, worship and observance.

      >>BEAST: I don't give a damn as to what he practices. Even if he
      claims kissing god's ass can cure pimples, i don't give a damn as
      long as he keeps his bullshit to himself.

      [M_Y]What is the matter, Roy? If it is bullshit then why give so much
      shit about bullshit? If what Eternal is saying is so full of it then
      why continue engaging with him? Of course he'll respond to things
      directed at him in ways he knows how.
      ================

      >>Article 19.
      Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
      right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to
      seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and
      regardless of frontiers.

      >>Beast: He has the right to speak up; we have our right to lampoon
      him.

      >>Freedom of speech works both ways.

      [M_Y]We can criticize his beliefs but we really have no right to
      maltreat him. Freedom of speech and expression does not give one a
      trump card, Roy. There is a line to be recognized and that is
      infringement on the rights of others.
      ===================

      >>The way I see itt, I have not violated even a single clause.

      [M_Y]Sorry, I disagree.
      ===================

      >>Eternal Bullshit's integrity is subjected to:

      -How he voices his opinion;
      -How he positions himself in the cause of social interaction;

      [M_Y]But even with these, he is still born free and equal in dignity
      and rights. Even with flawed opinions and poor social skills, he is
      still a human being with intrinsic values that we all should respect.
      ===================

      >> -How much integrity he has.

      [M_Y]I'm sorry, "Eternal Bullshit's integrity is subjected to how
      much integrity he has"? Could you perhaps restate or clarify this?
      ======================

      >> The way I see it, Bullshit deserves no respect when he:
      1. Sprouts theories which he insists are fact, but offers no tangible
      proof whatsoever.

      2. Calls Carl Sagan a moron.

      3. Lies about his energy expert identity.

      4. Is jobless, yet lives in a delusional world of his own, even to
      the extent of wanting to publish books.


      [M_Y]Great! Now you have all the right to keep these sentiments to
      yourself too.
      =====================

      >>To even suggest that Eternal Bullshit is "valiant" and "brave" is
      appalling.

      [M_Y]If you find that appalling, then good for you.
      ======================

      >>So he wants a debate?

      [M_Y]Yes, it appears so.
      ======================

      >>He supports an Atheist Constitution which will result in a
      complete loss of free speech in the forum?

      [M_Y]It won't be a complete loss of free speech, Roy. The
      Constitution is also meant to define the privileges of the members
      and establish some order. You see, as with other forms of freedom,
      completely unrestricted freedom of speech and expression may lead to
      infringement on the rights of others; some restraints are necessary
      and inevitable.
      =======================

      >>I think I have reiterated many times why I will not engage Bullshit
      in a debate.

      [M_Y]Yes, we know you do not choose to debate him formally. We also
      know that you intend to verbally abuse him until he leaves, instead.
      I, for one, am hoping you'll just ignore him.
      ==============

      >>As for the Constitution, I haven't spoken about it because I have
      not seen any concrete actions yet.

      [M_Y]Well, I also see that the interest for it is waning.
      ===============

      >>But any form of control to pussify the forum should be discouraged.

      [M_Y]The Constitution does not intend to "pussify" the forum. It
      actually is meant to protect the secular nature of the forum and
      protect it from being hijacked by religious zealots. The way I see
      it, it's use is a "craftier" and a more civilized way of dealing with
      conflicts, especially with theists trying to hijack the forum. We
      don't want to be deemed as barbaric infidels, do we?
      ===========

      >>Conclusion

      >>You may consider Eternal Bullshit to be a hero, go ahead and kiss
      his ass. Its your constitutional right.

      [M_Y]He is no hero and I don't intend to brown-nose. I just find your
      disrespectful ways and blatant disregard of civility and compassion,
      objectionable.
      ==============

      >>But don't even consider that I will stoop to his level.

      [M_Y]What I am hoping for is for you to give him and a lot of us here
      a break from the continuous and pointless bombardment. Let's move on.
      If what Eternal says is bullshit, then let's not give a shit about
      his bullshit. Come on, dude, let it go.
      ===============

      >He is a jobless idiot with a lot of time and no money in his hands.

      [M_Y]Well, he still is a human being with rights and dignity. You may
      not think too much of Eternal based on his image here at the PA
      forum. But you know image is one thing and the human being is
      another. As the King of Rock and Roll once said: "Don't criticize
      what you don't understand, son. You never walked in that man's shoes."
      =============

      >>I rest my case.

      [M_Y]Thank you, thank you very much. <In an Elvis voice followed by
      an announcement that says... "Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left
      the building".>

      ;) Take care, Roy.
    • badboylamok
      I second the motion. Lately, I ve been deleting emails from pinoy atheist than reading them. Seems like there is a need to unsubscribe from this list. It s
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 5, 2006
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        I second the motion. Lately, I've been deleting emails from pinoy atheist
        than reading them. Seems like there is a need to unsubscribe from this list.
        It's getting annoying to get "useless" messages.


        On 4/5/06, Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@...> wrote:
        >
        > is it possible to move pass
        > this and start talking about atheism?
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pinoy_infidel
        While my intention is for the abuse to stop, it s not out of sympathy to Eternal. I therefore move that the two guys both be shown the door. If we just remove
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 5, 2006
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          While my intention is for the abuse to stop, it's not out of sympathy
          to Eternal. I therefore move that the two guys both be shown the door.
          If we just remove Roy and not Eternal, let's rename this list then to
          something else.

          Tony



          --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, badboylamok <badboylamok@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I second the motion. Lately, I've been deleting emails from pinoy
          atheist
          > than reading them. Seems like there is a need to unsubscribe from
          this list.
          > It's getting annoying to get "useless" messages.
          >
          >
          > On 4/5/06, Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > is it possible to move pass
          > > this and start talking about atheism?
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Misterrific
          Well, it is unfortunate that it has to come to this. But I guess necessity calls for it. I support Tony s motion; I feel it s a fair one. ... sympathy ...
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 5, 2006
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            Well, it is unfortunate that it has to come to this. But I guess
            necessity calls for it. I support Tony's motion; I feel it's a fair
            one.


            --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "pinoy_infidel"
            <kujira_n12@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > While my intention is for the abuse to stop, it's not out of
            sympathy
            > to Eternal. I therefore move that the two guys both be shown the
            door.
            > If we just remove Roy and not Eternal, let's rename this list then
            to
            > something else.
            >
            > Tony
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, badboylamok <badboylamok@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I second the motion. Lately, I've been deleting emails from pinoy
            > atheist
            > > than reading them. Seems like there is a need to unsubscribe from
            > this list.
            > > It's getting annoying to get "useless" messages.
            > >
            > >
            > > On 4/5/06, Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > is it possible to move pass
            > > > this and start talking about atheism?
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • badboylamok
            I third the motion. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 5, 2006
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              I third the motion.

              On 4/6/06, Misterrific <ba2gan74@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well, it is unfortunate that it has to come to this. But I guess
              > necessity calls for it. I support Tony's motion; I feel it's a fair
              > one.
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eter nal
              That is your conviction Bro, I can do nothing about it. Let the majority once again decide whether I stay or leave. Eternal Misterrific
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 11, 2006
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                That is your conviction Bro, I can do nothing about it. Let the majority once again decide whether I stay or leave.


                Eternal

                Misterrific <ba2gan74@...> wrote:
                Well, it is unfortunate that it has to come to this. But I guess
                necessity calls for it. I support Tony's motion; I feel it's a fair
                one.


                --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "pinoy_infidel"
                <kujira_n12@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > While my intention is for the abuse to stop, it's not out of
                sympathy
                > to Eternal. I therefore move that the two guys both be shown the
                door.
                > If we just remove Roy and not Eternal, let's rename this list then
                to
                > something else.
                >
                > Tony
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, badboylamok <badboylamok@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > I second the motion. Lately, I've been deleting emails from pinoy
                > atheist
                > > than reading them. Seems like there is a need to unsubscribe from
                > this list.
                > > It's getting annoying to get "useless" messages.
                > >
                > >
                > > On 4/5/06, Romeo Macapobre <romeo.macapobre@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > is it possible to move pass
                > > > this and start talking about atheism?
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >






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              • eter nal
                Salamat mga tol, tinigilan ko na ang pakikipagtalo kay roy kasi nakikita ko na habang tumatagal lalong nabababoy ang usapan. Naisip ko din na wala nga pala
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 11, 2006
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                  Salamat mga tol, tinigilan ko na ang pakikipagtalo kay roy kasi nakikita ko na habang tumatagal lalong nabababoy ang usapan. Naisip ko din na wala nga pala akong dapat ikagalit dahil wala namang katotohanan ang mga bintang nya tungkol sa akin.

                  Hindi ko na gagatungan pa ang usapang ito, salamat uli sa inyo.


                  Ingats,

                  Ross

                  Misterrific <ba2gan74@...> wrote:
                  Kabayan,

                  Nauunawaan kita. Kung naging sin-sukdulang bastos si kapatid na ross,
                  maiintindihan ko ang ginagawa nitong banyagang ito. Subalit sa
                  nakikita ko rin, masyadong nang nananarantado itong katunggali ni
                  ross. Hindi man ako sang-ayon sa paniniwala ni ka-ross, hindi ko rin
                  maatim ang panlalait at pambabastos ng banyaga. Sana naman matauhan
                  siya at makapag-usap tayong lahat dito ng mapayapa.

                  M_Y

                  --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, jose mario sison
                  <joma_sison@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > sa matagal ko ng obserbasyon, hinde tayo nakikipagusap sa isang
                  human sa katauhan ni roy.
                  >
                  > kung si eternal ay naging "bastos" mauunawaan ko yan. pero sa
                  isang intellectual na binabastos ang nanay o nilalait ang kabiguan
                  (lack of job) ng iba at pilit na pinagtatawanan ang kakulangan ng
                  kaalaman ng kapwa, pare ko - magisip naman tayo (ayaw kong matawag na
                  fellow ng tulad ni roy)
                  >
                  >
                  > pinoy_infidel <kujira_n12@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ceasefire! Dude, take it easy on him now, will ya? How 'bout a
                  > ceasefire. Let's have more worthy topics. Let's bring intellectual
                  > back into masturbation. (go figure!)
                  >
                  > Secularly,
                  > Tony
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "soul_686" <soul_686@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Eternal bullshit is a typical, loathesome, idiotic moron who
                  loves to
                  > > prey on the sympathetic feelings of people.
                  > >
                  > > He is jobless; he cons people so that he can enjoy his own
                  internet
                  > > junkie fix.
                  > >
                  > > He deserves no pity nor sympathy whatsoever. I would even call it
                  a
                  > > personal duty for everyone to verbally abuse him, using our right
                  to
                  > > free speech to shame his jobless ass.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.philippineatheists.org/
                  >
                  >
                  >
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