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What do You Know?

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  • Sundee Guevara
    *What do you know?* Chances are, if you re reading this, you don t believe in the fable of Adam and Eve and the talking snake. You probably think it s a
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 3, 2011
      *What do you know?*

      Chances are, if you're reading this, you don't believe in the fable of Adam
      and Eve and the talking snake. You probably think it's a story, created out
      of ignorance, to explain the origin of life. You probably don't believe
      that Adam literally ate a fruit, resulting in God expelling him and Eve out
      of the idyllic Garden of Eden.

      In other words, you know that it's a myth.

      Right so far? So if Adam and Eve and the Talking Snake are myths, then
      Original Sin is also a myth, right? Well, think about it...


      1. Jesus' major purpose was to save mankind from Original Sin.
      2. Original Sin makes believers unworthy of salvation, but you get it
      anyway, so you should be grateful for being saved (from that which does not
      exist).
      3. Without Original Sin, the marketing that all people are sinners and
      therefore need to accept Jesus falls moot.


      All we are asking is that you take what you know into serious consideration,
      even if it means *taking a hard look at all you've been taught for your
      whole life*. No Adam and Eve means no need for a savior. It also means
      that the Bible cannot be trusted as a source of unambiguous, literal truth.
      It is completely unreliable, because it all begins with a myth, and builds
      on that as a basis. No Fall of Man means no need for atonement and no need
      for a redeemer. You know it.


      *But can you really KNOW?*
      *
      *Of course you can. Theists love to validate their myths by trapping
      atheists into a philosophical discussion of knowledge and certainty.
      According to some theists, we can only be "pretty confident" of everything
      since we don't know everything. I guess they can only be equally sure that
      their gods exist.

      In the movie The Matrix, we learn that life is an illusion, pumped onto our
      brains by robots via a wire stuck in our heads. Good movie, but can you
      prove it false, with 100% certainty? Even if the writers came to your living
      room and told you they made it up, they could be mere illusions placed in
      your head for some unknown reason by the same unknown aliens.

      So, is The Matrix fiction? How about Santa Claus? Zeus? Perhaps the mouse
      in your hand is an all-powerful ruler of the universe cleverly disguised as
      a mouse? How absurd does something have to be before we can comfortably
      call something fiction?

      In the end, humans have to accept reality as, well, reality. There are
      unknown possibilities, and then there is fiction. Atheists know fiction when
      we see it -- all gods were invented by humans, and none is more valid than
      any other. You know it, just as well as you know anything at all.


      *Christianity stole Christmas.*
      *
      *Christians don't own this holiday, and never did. Christianity is neither
      the first, nor the 5th, nor the 10th mythology to adopt the Winter Solstice
      as their major day. Mythra, Bel, Krishna, Horus, and even the Mayan
      Qetzalcoatl were all born on the Winter Solstice. Jesus, if you believe
      the Bible, was actually born in the Spring, but early Christians changed it
      to mesh with other myths.

      Indeed, none of the trappings of Christmas are Christian. All of it
      predates Christianity. Yuletide, and Yule logs come from the Pagan holiday
      of Yule (the pagans also took the Solstice for their own). Santa Claus is
      Nordic, Germanic, or Celtic, depending on who you ask, and there were no
      tinsel-covered evergreens in Bethlehem -- that's Pagan too.

      Christians don't deserve a monopoly on holiday cheer. We all own a piece of
      the Solstice (whatever you call it).


      *Happy Holidays!*
      *
      *For years, we have been accused of having a "war on Christmas" and making
      people say "Happy Holidays" instead of 'Merry Christmas", without even
      considering the truth of the issue. Yet, there have been no lawsuits or
      threats of lawsuits to change what people say. People can say whatever they
      want, but private corporations like Macy's and Target know that there are
      many holidays being celebrated, including the solstice, and that
      inclusiveness is better than divisiveness. They therefore ask their
      employees to use the broader, more inclusive greeting. It makes them more
      money, so they acknowledge everyone, and we think that's a pretty good idea.



      *A Federal Religious Holiday?*
      *
      *"But nobody is forcing Christmas on you!" We hear that all the time, too,
      when we mention the repugnance of Christmas being a federal holiday.
      Christmas is the only religious holiday that shuts down the government and
      yes, that in and of itself, forces all citizens to celebrate this religious
      holiday. Ramadan, Passover, and other religious holidays may affect the
      whole country in this way, but Christmas is enforced by government rule. We
      cannot use the bank, we cannot get mail, we cannot conduct business of any
      kind. We are forced to observe other people's religious holidays, and
      that's wrong. But a holiday is a fun thing to have nonetheless.

      By the way, this is also the reason that Christmas is so commercialized. If
      you force all people to observe it, they will naturally observe the aspects
      with which they can most readily identify -- the commercialism. This is why
      Christmas is more about gifts than it is about Jesus, much to the dismay of
      those very people who demand everyone take it seriously.


      *In the end
      *
      It's not a war on Christmas, rather it's a war on intolerance and ignorance.
      It's a war on false gods, false prophets, and false promises. It's a war
      on unearned rights, unwarranted exclusivity, and unrighteous divisiveness.
      It's a good and just war, fought without violence, against a behemoth known
      as organized religion. We are outnumbered and outfunded. Our only weapons
      are the truth and the means to spread it. Hence the billboard, the web
      site, the magazine, the TV show, and the convention.

      It's working. We're growing. Atheism is the fastest growing segment of the
      population in respect to religious belief (or the lack of it) in the
      country, and the future looks bright. Atheists has been protecting the
      separation of church and state since 1963, and we will continue the fight
      until we achieve true equality in the laws, as well as the hearts and minds
      of the citizenry. Atheism can never go away, because it's the unassailable,
      provable, logical truth.

      But then again, you knew that too.





      --
      All life is Copy, Cut, Paste.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • doug john
      Wow! That piece contained so much meat thank you for sharing it Sundee. You know when I first started posting in this forum I thought I was almost a lone
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 4, 2011
        Wow!

        That piece contained so much meat thank you for sharing it Sundee.

        You know when I first started posting in this forum I thought I was almost a
        lone voice of reason  amongst a cacophony of superstion.

        It is post like this that as helped end my sense of isolation here.

        Warm regards Doug.


        ________________________________
        From: Sundee Guevara <spyglass88@...>
        To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, 4 April, 2011 2:17:49 PM
        Subject: [pinoy_atheists] What do You Know?

         
        *What do you know?*

        Chances are, if you're reading this, you don't believe in the fable of Adam
        and Eve and the talking snake. You probably think it's a story, created out
        of ignorance, to explain the origin of life. You probably don't believe
        that Adam literally ate a fruit, resulting in God expelling him and Eve out
        of the idyllic Garden of Eden.

        In other words, you know that it's a myth.

        Right so far? So if Adam and Eve and the Talking Snake are myths, then
        Original Sin is also a myth, right? Well, think about it...

        1. Jesus' major purpose was to save mankind from Original Sin.
        2. Original Sin makes believers unworthy of salvation, but you get it
        anyway, so you should be grateful for being saved (from that which does not
        exist).
        3. Without Original Sin, the marketing that all people are sinners and
        therefore need to accept Jesus falls moot.

        All we are asking is that you take what you know into serious consideration,
        even if it means *taking a hard look at all you've been taught for your
        whole life*. No Adam and Eve means no need for a savior. It also means
        that the Bible cannot be trusted as a source of unambiguous, literal truth.
        It is completely unreliable, because it all begins with a myth, and builds
        on that as a basis. No Fall of Man means no need for atonement and no need
        for a redeemer. You know it.

        *But can you really KNOW?*
        *
        *Of course you can. Theists love to validate their myths by trapping
        atheists into a philosophical discussion of knowledge and certainty.
        According to some theists, we can only be "pretty confident" of everything
        since we don't know everything. I guess they can only be equally sure that
        their gods exist.

        In the movie The Matrix, we learn that life is an illusion, pumped onto our
        brains by robots via a wire stuck in our heads. Good movie, but can you
        prove it false, with 100% certainty? Even if the writers came to your living
        room and told you they made it up, they could be mere illusions placed in
        your head for some unknown reason by the same unknown aliens.

        So, is The Matrix fiction? How about Santa Claus? Zeus? Perhaps the mouse
        in your hand is an all-powerful ruler of the universe cleverly disguised as
        a mouse? How absurd does something have to be before we can comfortably
        call something fiction?

        In the end, humans have to accept reality as, well, reality. There are
        unknown possibilities, and then there is fiction. Atheists know fiction when
        we see it -- all gods were invented by humans, and none is more valid than
        any other. You know it, just as well as you know anything at all.

        *Christianity stole Christmas.*
        *
        *Christians don't own this holiday, and never did. Christianity is neither
        the first, nor the 5th, nor the 10th mythology to adopt the Winter Solstice
        as their major day. Mythra, Bel, Krishna, Horus, and even the Mayan
        Qetzalcoatl were all born on the Winter Solstice. Jesus, if you believe
        the Bible, was actually born in the Spring, but early Christians changed it
        to mesh with other myths.

        Indeed, none of the trappings of Christmas are Christian. All of it
        predates Christianity. Yuletide, and Yule logs come from the Pagan holiday
        of Yule (the pagans also took the Solstice for their own). Santa Claus is
        Nordic, Germanic, or Celtic, depending on who you ask, and there were no
        tinsel-covered evergreens in Bethlehem -- that's Pagan too.

        Christians don't deserve a monopoly on holiday cheer. We all own a piece of
        the Solstice (whatever you call it).

        *Happy Holidays!*
        *
        *For years, we have been accused of having a "war on Christmas" and making
        people say "Happy Holidays" instead of 'Merry Christmas", without even
        considering the truth of the issue. Yet, there have been no lawsuits or
        threats of lawsuits to change what people say. People can say whatever they
        want, but private corporations like Macy's and Target know that there are
        many holidays being celebrated, including the solstice, and that
        inclusiveness is better than divisiveness. They therefore ask their
        employees to use the broader, more inclusive greeting. It makes them more
        money, so they acknowledge everyone, and we think that's a pretty good idea.

        *A Federal Religious Holiday?*
        *
        *"But nobody is forcing Christmas on you!" We hear that all the time, too,
        when we mention the repugnance of Christmas being a federal holiday.
        Christmas is the only religious holiday that shuts down the government and
        yes, that in and of itself, forces all citizens to celebrate this religious
        holiday. Ramadan, Passover, and other religious holidays may affect the
        whole country in this way, but Christmas is enforced by government rule. We
        cannot use the bank, we cannot get mail, we cannot conduct business of any
        kind. We are forced to observe other people's religious holidays, and
        that's wrong. But a holiday is a fun thing to have nonetheless.

        By the way, this is also the reason that Christmas is so commercialized. If
        you force all people to observe it, they will naturally observe the aspects
        with which they can most readily identify -- the commercialism. This is why
        Christmas is more about gifts than it is about Jesus, much to the dismay of
        those very people who demand everyone take it seriously.

        *In the end
        *
        It's not a war on Christmas, rather it's a war on intolerance and ignorance.
        It's a war on false gods, false prophets, and false promises. It's a war
        on unearned rights, unwarranted exclusivity, and unrighteous divisiveness.
        It's a good and just war, fought without violence, against a behemoth known
        as organized religion. We are outnumbered and outfunded. Our only weapons
        are the truth and the means to spread it. Hence the billboard, the web
        site, the magazine, the TV show, and the convention.

        It's working. We're growing. Atheism is the fastest growing segment of the
        population in respect to religious belief (or the lack of it) in the
        country, and the future looks bright. Atheists has been protecting the
        separation of church and state since 1963, and we will continue the fight
        until we achieve true equality in the laws, as well as the hearts and minds
        of the citizenry. Atheism can never go away, because it's the unassailable,
        provable, logical truth.

        But then again, you knew that too.

        --
        All life is Copy, Cut, Paste.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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