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Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?

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  • Oliver Floralde
    if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the Feminist movement she was primarily concerned with our group, our movement... so
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 7, 2008
      if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the 'Feminist movement' she was�primarily concerned with our group, our movement...

      so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement

      to the�author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic, where do we go from here?

      should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?

      P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night? pretty awesome eh?!







      ________________________________
      From: tony <paetenian@...>
      To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
      Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?



      Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
      there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
      mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
      curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
      also be interested in?

      T

      --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
      <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
      brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
      > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
      equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
      that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
      conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
      outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
      active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
      movement for women's right to vote.
      >
      > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
      which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
      by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
      born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
      >
      > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
      feminists are hostile to abortion.
      >
      > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
      militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
      rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
      and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
      > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
      > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
      >
      >
      > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
      > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
      >
      > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
      > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
      > their feminism into the public debate?
      >
      > T
      >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
      > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
      > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
      Benj?
      > >
      > >
      > > Benj Espina wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
      > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we usually
      > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word "left"
      > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it want
      > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
      > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
      > >
      > > T
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Benj Espina
      The atheist republic is non-existent. We are people only united by one thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be unnecessary.
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 7, 2008
        The "atheist republic" is non-existent. We are people only united by one
        thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be
        unnecessary.

        "to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
        'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
        where do we go from here?"

        This is too reminiscent of the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Republican
        party uses regarding the "founding forefathers".


        I was on duty last night so I missed it.Dang it,

        On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Oliver Floralde
        <edlarolf_revilo@...>wrote:

        > if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
        > 'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
        > movement...
        >
        > so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization
        > discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue
        > whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement
        >
        > to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
        > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
        > where do we go from here?
        >
        > should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
        > 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?
        >
        > P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
        > pretty awesome eh?!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: tony <paetenian@...>
        > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
        > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
        >
        >
        >
        > Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
        > there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
        > mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
        > curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
        > also be interested in?
        >
        > T
        >
        > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
        > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
        > brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
        > > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
        > equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
        > that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
        > conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
        > outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
        > active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
        > movement for women's right to vote.
        > >
        > > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
        > which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
        > by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
        > born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
        > >
        > > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
        > feminists are hostile to abortion.
        > >
        > > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
        > militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
        > rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
        > and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
        > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
        > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
        > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
        > >
        > > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
        > > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
        > > their feminism into the public debate?
        > >
        > > T
        > >
        > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
        > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
        > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
        > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
        > Benj?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Benj Espina wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
        > > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we usually
        > > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word "left"
        > > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it want
        > > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
        > > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
        > > >
        > > > T
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Benjamin A. Espina III
        Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
        Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
        Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
        Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
        UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        I agree with you here... ________________________________ From: Benj Espina To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday,
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 7, 2008
          I agree with you here...




          ________________________________
          From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
          To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:58:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Hello. Guys question


          Well, Gabriela is nothing but a mouth piece for the CCP with a female
          perspective. That's just me. I still say that this organization is nothing
          but BULL.

          2008/12/5 pinayatheist <pinayatheist@ yahoo.com>

          > Hey ya'll. Umm meron bang may info dito about gabriella? Gusto ko
          > kasing sumali. I want an outlet for my militant feminism.
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Benjamin A. Espina III
          Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate. com
          Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada. com
          Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoic es.com
          Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista. net
          UP College of Medicine Class of 2010

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John
          Agreed. I ve always said that there s only one thing you will find out about a person once you know that he/she is an atheist: That he/she does not believe in
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 7, 2008
            Agreed. I've always said that there's only one thing you will find out about a person once you know that he/she is an atheist: That he/she does not believe in a god/gods.

            By that single attribute (being an atheist), you cannot tell whether he believes in ghosts or the supernatural. You cannot tell if he believes in climate change. You cannot tell if he thinks everyone must die. You cannot tell if he believes in equal rights. That's because the only thing that atheists have in common is a non-belief in a god or gods.





            ________________________________
            From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
            To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:04:08 AM
            Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?

            The "atheist republic" is non-existent. We are people only united by one
            thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be
            unnecessary.

            "to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
            'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
            where do we go from here?"

            This is too reminiscent of the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Republican
            party uses regarding the "founding forefathers".


            I was on duty last night so I missed it.Dang it,

            On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Oliver Floralde
            <edlarolf_revilo@...>wrote:

            > if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
            > 'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
            > movement...
            >
            > so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization
            > discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue
            > whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement
            >
            > to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
            > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
            > where do we go from here?
            >
            > should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
            > 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?
            >
            > P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
            > pretty awesome eh?!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: tony <paetenian@...>
            > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
            > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
            >
            >
            >
            > Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
            > there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
            > mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
            > curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
            > also be interested in?
            >
            > T
            >
            > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
            > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
            > brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
            > > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
            > equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
            > that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
            > conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
            > outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
            > active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
            > movement for women's right to vote.
            > >
            > > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
            > which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
            > by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
            > born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
            > >
            > > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
            > feminists are hostile to abortion.
            > >
            > > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
            > militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
            > rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
            > and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
            > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
            > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
            > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
            > >
            > > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
            > > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
            > > their feminism into the public debate?
            > >
            > > T
            > >
            > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
            > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
            > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
            > Benj?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Benj Espina wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
            > > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we usually
            > > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word "left"
            > > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it want
            > > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
            > > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
            > > >
            > > > T
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Benjamin A. Espina III
            Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
            Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
            Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
            Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
            UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ------------------------------------

            http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Benj Espina
            And in more concrete issues, this becomes for tedious. Atheists can find themselves in opposite sides of contentious issues like stem cell research, abortion,
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 7, 2008
              And in more concrete issues, this becomes for tedious. Atheists can find
              themselves in opposite sides of contentious issues like stem cell research,
              abortion, same sex marriage, national security, etc.

              Having an atheist republic is tantamount to having our own religion.

              On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM, John <harmless168@...> wrote:

              > Agreed. I've always said that there's only one thing you will find out
              > about a person once you know that he/she is an atheist: That he/she does not
              > believe in a god/gods.
              >
              > By that single attribute (being an atheist), you cannot tell whether he
              > believes in ghosts or the supernatural. You cannot tell if he believes in
              > climate change. You cannot tell if he thinks everyone must die. You cannot
              > tell if he believes in equal rights. That's because the only thing that
              > atheists have in common is a non-belief in a god or gods.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
              > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:04:08 AM
              > Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
              > Benj?
              >
              > The "atheist republic" is non-existent. We are people only united by one
              > thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be
              > unnecessary.
              >
              > "to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
              > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
              > where do we go from here?"
              >
              > This is too reminiscent of the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Republican
              > party uses regarding the "founding forefathers".
              >
              >
              > I was on duty last night so I missed it.Dang it,
              >
              > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Oliver Floralde
              > <edlarolf_revilo@...>wrote:
              >
              > > if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
              > > 'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
              > > movement...
              > >
              > > so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization
              > > discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue
              > > whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement
              > >
              > > to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
              > > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
              > > where do we go from here?
              > >
              > > should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
              > > 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?
              > >
              > > P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
              > > pretty awesome eh?!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: tony <paetenian@...>
              > > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
              > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
              > > there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
              > > mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
              > > curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
              > > also be interested in?
              > >
              > > T
              > >
              > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
              > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
              > > brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
              > > > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
              > > equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
              > > that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
              > > conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
              > > outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
              > > active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
              > > movement for women's right to vote.
              > > >
              > > > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
              > > which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
              > > by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
              > > born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
              > > >
              > > > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
              > > feminists are hostile to abortion.
              > > >
              > > > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
              > > militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
              > > rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
              > > and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
              > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
              > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
              > Benj?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
              > > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
              > > >
              > > > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
              > > > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
              > > > their feminism into the public debate?
              > > >
              > > > T
              > > >
              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
              > > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
              > > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
              > > Benj?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Benj Espina wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
              > > > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we
              > usually
              > > > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word
              > "left"
              > > > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it
              > want
              > > > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
              > > > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
              > > > >
              > > > > T
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Benjamin A. Espina III
              > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
              > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
              > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
              > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
              > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              Benjamin A. Espina III
              Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
              Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
              Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
              Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
              UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Oliver Floralde
              nakakatawa naman ang ilang reaksiyon dito... kinulit ng kinulit ng husto ang paggamit ng salitang Republic*, pero interestingly hindi sinagot ang talagang
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                nakakatawa naman ang ilang reaksiyon dito...

                kinulit ng kinulit ng husto ang paggamit�ng salitang Republic*, pero interestingly�hindi sinagot ang talagang isyu ng query, which is, where do we go from here? mukhang magandang suhestyon ang secular org. hindi man po tayo�magkasundo sa iba-ibang isyu, pero dun sa pinagkakasunduan natin, ano na ang gagawin natin?

                *pasensiyahan niyo na po ako, nakasanayan ko kasing gamitin ang salitang republic sa�ibang forum�na kasali ako... ��




                ________________________________
                From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
                To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 3:35:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?

                And in more concrete issues, this becomes for tedious. Atheists can find
                themselves in opposite sides of contentious issues like stem cell research,
                abortion, same sex marriage, national security, etc.

                Having an atheist republic is tantamount to having our own religion.

                On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM, John <harmless168@...> wrote:

                > Agreed. I've always said that there's only one thing you will find out
                > about a person once you know that he/she is an atheist: That he/she does not
                > believe in a god/gods.
                >
                > By that single attribute (being an atheist), you cannot tell whether he
                > believes in ghosts or the supernatural. You cannot tell if he believes in
                > climate change. You cannot tell if he thinks everyone must die. You cannot
                > tell if he believes in equal rights. That's because the only thing that
                > atheists have in common is a non-belief in a god or gods.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
                > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:04:08 AM
                > Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                > Benj?
                >
                > The "atheist republic" is non-existent. We are people only united by one
                > thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be
                > unnecessary.
                >
                > "to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
                > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
                > where do we go from here?"
                >
                > This is too reminiscent of the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Republican
                > party uses regarding the "founding forefathers".
                >
                >
                > I was on duty last night so I missed it.Dang it,
                >
                > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Oliver Floralde
                > <edlarolf_revilo@...>wrote:
                >
                > > if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
                > > 'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
                > > movement...
                > >
                > > so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization
                > > discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue
                > > whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement
                > >
                > > to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
                > > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
                > > where do we go from here?
                > >
                > > should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
                > > 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?
                > >
                > > P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
                > > pretty awesome eh?!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: tony <paetenian@...>
                > > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
                > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
                > > there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
                > > mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
                > > curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
                > > also be interested in?
                > >
                > > T
                > >
                > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
                > > brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
                > > > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
                > > equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
                > > that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
                > > conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
                > > outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
                > > active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
                > > movement for women's right to vote.
                > > >
                > > > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
                > > which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
                > > by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
                > > born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
                > > >
                > > > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
                > > feminists are hostile to abortion.
                > > >
                > > > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
                > > militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
                > > rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
                > > and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > > > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
                > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
                > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                > Benj?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                > > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
                > > >
                > > > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
                > > > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
                > > > their feminism into the public debate?
                > > >
                > > > T
                > > >
                > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > > > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
                > > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
                > > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                > > Benj?
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Benj Espina wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
                > > > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we
                > usually
                > > > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word
                > "left"
                > > > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it
                > want
                > > > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
                > > > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
                > > > >
                > > > > T
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Benjamin A. Espina III
                > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Benjamin A. Espina III
                Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                ------------------------------------

                http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Benj Espina
                The founding fathers have yet to log in. You better wait for their comments if you really want your question answered. -- Benjamin A. Espina III Author and
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                  The founding fathers have yet to log in. You better wait for their comments
                  if you really want your question answered.

                  --
                  Benjamin A. Espina III
                  Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                  Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                  Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                  Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                  UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carl Toribio
                  OT: Yup, saw the Discovery Channel s documentary on Stephen Hawking and his quest for the theory of everything. The only thing I get irked about is Hawking s
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                    OT: Yup, saw the Discovery Channel's documentary on Stephen Hawking and his quest for the theory of everything. The only thing I get irked about is Hawking's frequent use of the term God in his popular science books, yet he doesn't clarify thatthis God is a pantheist / deistic one, miles away from scripture-based imaginary friends :P

                    It's a great complement to "The Universe" series on the History Channel :D I also recommend the popular science books of another physicist, Michio Kaku.



                    --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Oliver Floralde <edlarolf_revilo@...> wrote:
                    From: Oliver Floralde <edlarolf_revilo@...>
                    Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
                    To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, 7 December, 2008, 4:54 PM

                    if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
                    'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
                    movement...

                    so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization discussion
                    which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue whihc i think
                    is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement

                    to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
                    'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist
                    republic, where do we go from here?

                    should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
                    'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?

                    P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
                    pretty awesome eh?!



                     



                    ________________________________
                    From: tony <paetenian@...>
                    To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
                    Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                    Benj?



                    Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
                    there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
                    mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
                    curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
                    also be interested in?

                    T

                    --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                    <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
                    brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
                    > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
                    equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
                    that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
                    conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
                    outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
                    active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
                    movement for women's right to vote.
                    >
                    > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
                    which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
                    by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
                    born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
                    >
                    > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
                    feminists are hostile to abortion.
                    >
                    > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement – the
                    militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
                    rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
                    and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
                    > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
                    > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's
                    'BULL' Benj?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                    > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
                    >
                    > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
                    > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
                    > their feminism into the public debate?
                    >
                    > T
                    >
                    > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
                    > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
                    > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's
                    'BULL'
                    Benj?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Benj Espina wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
                    > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we
                    usually
                    > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the
                    word "left"
                    > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it
                    want
                    > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
                    > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
                    > >
                    > > T
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    ------------------------------------

                    http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links






                    How do I pick the best badminton racket? Discover the secret on Yahoo! Answers! http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • tony
                    Hi Benj and everyone, There are no founding fathers for this mailing list (although that sounds vaguely familiar hehehe). This list exist because there is a
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                      Hi Benj and everyone,

                      There are no founding fathers for this mailing list (although that
                      sounds vaguely familiar hehehe). This list exist because there is a
                      community of free individuals. The list is open for membership to
                      everyone subject to a few rules as stated in the group page. If there
                      are formal groups that shall some day arise from the community well
                      and good and from time to time there comes along somebody who is
                      willing to undertake/lead it although as of now I know there are no
                      active initiatives in that front. There is another list
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philippine_atheists) but it too is not
                      formally organized. As everyone can see, the PhilippineAtheists.org
                      website is also not maintained regularly although it will continue to
                      exist for a few more years.

                      T

                      --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "Benj Espina"
                      <swingonthespiral@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The founding fathers have yet to log in. You better wait for their
                      comments
                      > if you really want your question answered.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Benjamin A. Espina III
                      > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                      > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                      > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                      > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                      > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Benj Espina
                      I still stand by my original premise - binding people on the basis of atheism is naive and unnecessary. Form organizations on ideologies that forward something
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                        I still stand by my original premise - binding people on the basis of
                        atheism is naive and unnecessary. Form organizations on ideologies that
                        forward something - atheism doesn't forward anything. There's just a strong
                        correlation between atheism and other values that could be important to a
                        lot of us - science, research and development, equality, tolerance,
                        secularism, civil rights etc.

                        And even if the founding fathers log in, following what they say will be
                        similar to subscribing to dogma just because it was their opinion.


                        On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:45 PM, tony <paetenian@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Hi Benj and everyone,
                        >
                        > There are no founding fathers for this mailing list (although that
                        > sounds vaguely familiar hehehe). This list exist because there is a
                        > community of free individuals. The list is open for membership to
                        > everyone subject to a few rules as stated in the group page. If there
                        > are formal groups that shall some day arise from the community well
                        > and good and from time to time there comes along somebody who is
                        > willing to undertake/lead it although as of now I know there are no
                        > active initiatives in that front. There is another list
                        > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/philippine_atheists) but it too is not
                        > formally organized. As everyone can see, the PhilippineAtheists.org
                        > website is also not maintained regularly although it will continue to
                        > exist for a few more years.
                        >
                        > T
                        >
                        > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com <pinoy_atheists%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Benj Espina"
                        >
                        > <swingonthespiral@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The founding fathers have yet to log in. You better wait for their
                        > comments
                        > > if you really want your question answered.
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Benjamin A. Espina III
                        > > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                        > > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                        > > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                        > > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                        > > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        Benjamin A. Espina III
                        Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                        Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                        Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                        Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                        UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Benj Espina
                        Again, my opinion IS my opinion. There is no reason for you to be riled about since I m in no way interested in making you swing into my side of the fence.
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                          Again, my opinion IS my opinion. There is no reason for you to be
                          riled about since I'm in no way interested in making you swing into
                          my side of the fence. Like what I said in the thread, this is an
                          atheist's group! I'm pretty sure that we have a lot of intelligent,
                          critical and outspoken people here and I don't expect us to agree at
                          all times. If you guys think it's better to just be supportive and
                          heap praise upon every idea on the table even if you don't agree with
                          it, then I don't think that's what a "forum" or a "collective" is.
                          This mailing list is essentially a loose organization who don't
                          believe/ reject the existence of a god/ supreme being. Those who are
                          willing to stick their necks out and identify themselves as an atheist
                          are probably brave and thick-skinned individuals. I don't know how a
                          minor disagreement in NGOs could be spun this way.

                          Expect your ideas to be tested in this forum and don't take things personally.


                          --
                          Benjamin A. Espina III
                          Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                          Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                          Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                          Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                          UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                        • Pecier Decierdo
                          Benj, note that I agree with you that the major problem of most left-leaning organizations is that they tend to stifle individual differences, and in this
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                            Benj, note that I agree with you that the major problem of most
                            'left-leaning' organizations is that they tend to stifle individual
                            differences, and in this respect, I also dislike much of the
                            Philippine's 'red' ideology. In this respect, their socialism becomes
                            for them sort of a religion.

                            But I really disagree with you that any thinking atheist would not
                            like to join Gabriela or other organization aligned with or having
                            elements of the CCP. A lot of Gabriela's causes are legitimate and
                            very reasonable, and they (the causes, that is) do not even approach
                            communist at that. After all, one does not have to embrace the dogma
                            of an organization's ruling body in order to harmoniously cooperate
                            with a lot of that organization's activities.

                            Now, do we really need organizations? For 'mere' atheism, I have
                            already registered my agreement with you that no, we don't. But for
                            feminism (of whatever skin you prefer), secularism and the separation
                            of church and state and other similar causes, I think it is obvious
                            that we emphatically do. To make concrete achievements, I believe we
                            need to have an organized movement. Atheism does not have concrete
                            goals (and if somebody thinks its proselytizing, then I guess you're
                            right that they already view 'atheism' as a religion), but the
                            separation of church and state does. The RH bill affair is a case in
                            point. Also, for example, if there will be any attack on the integrity
                            of science education in this country, like a Philippine creationist
                            movement, for instance, then we would need to have a mobilized front
                            against it. Again, that cause is within the umbrella of the separation
                            of church and state.

                            -Pecier

                            --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "Benj Espina"
                            <swingonthespiral@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Do we really need organizations?
                            >
                            > It's still corrupted feminism at the end of the day. It's an
                            organization
                            > that cavorts with the extreme left just to get some piece of the
                            pie. That's
                            > selling out if you ask me.
                            > Formal organizations centered on an ideology will always get
                            corrupted as
                            > membership grows. As membership grows, there will be need to make more
                            > concessions on core issues just to fuel the "NEED to grow". I don't
                            think a
                            > thinking atheist would like to be a pawn of such an organization.
                            >
                            >
                            > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
                            >
                            > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Pecier Decierdo <pecierpoldo@...>wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I'm sorry Benj, but what's 'BULL'? Gabriela or CFI-Philippines?
                            > > Because if it's the former, I'm sorry to violently disagree with you.
                            > >
                            > > Well, I agree that Gabriela has strong elements of CCP, and I don't
                            > > agree with the CCP nor with extreme Marxism. But since I am against
                            > > neo-liberalism and am for greater social equity (though not communism
                            > > and the total abolition of private property), I'd like to think of
                            > > myself as an old-fashioned socialist of the Scandinavian sort. And I
                            > > agree with the left-leaning feminists that the cause of women cannot
                            > > be separated from the cause of the economically oppressed.
                            > >
                            > > I am convinced that as long as there is abject poverty and abusive
                            > > labor relationships, majority of the women cannot be completely free.
                            > > Look at who are the victims of the Church's idiotic opposition to the
                            > > RH Bill - surely, its not the middle class women who, for whatever
                            > > their church teaches and no matter how many hours they spend at church
                            > > on Sundays, will always have access to effective family planning
                            > > methods. And they have always tapped these methods. A quick look at
                            > > the typical family size and litter spacing of the middle class Maria
                            > > de la Cruz's family will confirm this. The poor women are the ones who
                            > > are the victims, they are the ones who will suffer under the slavery
                            > > of being baby-making machines.
                            > >
                            > > Though sometimes, Gabriela can be an insult to the ear, at the heart
                            > > of their organization is a cause that I believe is noble. I hope I
                            > > have made my point Benj. I hope this doesn't make us enemies or
                            > > something. *smiles*
                            > >
                            > > And by the way, pinayatheist, I like your passion. Don't let the flame
                            > > die out. But don't let it consume everything either. Objectively and
                            > > conscientiously asses any organization you would like to join. After
                            > > wall, what's reason for? *smiles*
                            > >
                            > > -Pecier
                            > >
                            > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                            <pinoy_atheists%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > "Benj Espina"
                            > > <swingonthespiral@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Well, Gabriela is nothing but a mouth piece for the CCP with a
                            female
                            > > > perspective. That's just me. I still say that this organization is
                            > > nothing
                            > > > but BULL.
                            > > >
                            > > > 2008/12/5 pinayatheist <pinayatheist@>
                            > > >
                            > > > > Hey ya'll. Umm meron bang may info dito about gabriella? Gusto ko
                            > > > > kasing sumali. I want an outlet for my militant feminism.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > Benjamin A. Espina III
                            > > > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                            > > > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                            > > > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                            > > > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                            > > > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Benjamin A. Espina III
                            > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                            > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                            > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                            > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                            > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • John
                            What do you mean, Where do we go from here? Is it SOP for a Yahoogroup to become a registered organization? Make no mistake, I m not saying we should not
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 8, 2008
                              What do you mean, "Where do we go from here?"

                              Is it SOP for a Yahoogroup to become a registered organization?

                              Make no mistake, I'm not saying we should not form one, but the way you say it, it's as if we're REQUIRED to make one.

                              If someone has the time and resources to make a secular org, I'm all for it. I'm sure I'll be able to donate some cash, and I might even be able to donate some time.





                              ________________________________
                              From: Oliver Floralde <edlarolf_revilo@...>
                              To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 5:12:11 PM
                              Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?

                              nakakatawa naman ang ilang reaksiyon dito...

                              kinulit ng kinulit ng husto ang paggamit ng salitang Republic*, pero interestingly hindi sinagot ang talagang isyu ng query, which is, where do we go from here? mukhang magandang suhestyon ang secular org. hindi man po tayo magkasundo sa iba-ibang isyu, pero dun sa pinagkakasunduan natin, ano na ang gagawin natin?

                              *pasensiyahan niyo na po ako, nakasanayan ko kasing gamitin ang salitang republic sa ibang forum na kasali ako...




                              ________________________________
                              From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
                              To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 3:35:35 PM
                              Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?

                              And in more concrete issues, this becomes for tedious. Atheists can find
                              themselves in opposite sides of contentious issues like stem cell research,
                              abortion, same sex marriage, national security, etc.

                              Having an atheist republic is tantamount to having our own religion.

                              On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:28 PM, John <harmless168@...> wrote:

                              > Agreed. I've always said that there's only one thing you will find out
                              > about a person once you know that he/she is an atheist: That he/she does not
                              > believe in a god/gods.
                              >
                              > By that single attribute (being an atheist), you cannot tell whether he
                              > believes in ghosts or the supernatural. You cannot tell if he believes in
                              > climate change. You cannot tell if he thinks everyone must die. You cannot
                              > tell if he believes in equal rights. That's because the only thing that
                              > atheists have in common is a non-belief in a god or gods.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Benj Espina <swingonthespiral@...>
                              > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:04:08 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                              > Benj?
                              >
                              > The "atheist republic" is non-existent. We are people only united by one
                              > thread -free thought. To even suggest congruence on more issues would be
                              > unnecessary.
                              >
                              > "to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
                              > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
                              > where do we go from here?"
                              >
                              > This is too reminiscent of the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Republican
                              > party uses regarding the "founding forefathers".
                              >
                              >
                              > I was on duty last night so I missed it.Dang it,
                              >
                              > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Oliver Floralde
                              > <edlarolf_revilo@...>wrote:
                              >
                              > > if i remember it right, before Pinay Atheist showed an interest in the
                              > > 'Feminist movement' she was primarily concerned with our group, our
                              > > movement...
                              > >
                              > > so before we busy ourselves with the gabriella vs other organization
                              > > discussion which is hogging the forum, let's focus on the initial issue
                              > > whihc i think is very valid, i for one is all for growth and movement
                              > >
                              > > to the author/s of this e-group, what have you envisioned when you
                              > > 'created' this? to the 'learned' men and women of the Atheist republic,
                              > > where do we go from here?
                              > >
                              > > should we just go on lambasting each other and every believer who
                              > > 'accidentally' gets into the forum :)?
                              > >
                              > > P.S. who get to watch Stephen Hawking's theory of everything last night?
                              > > pretty awesome eh?!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: tony <paetenian@...>
                              > > To: pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 6:32:38 PM
                              > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL' Benj?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Obviously pinayatheist is looking for feminist movements currently out
                              > > there and not Susan B Anthony. She mentioned Gabriela somebody else
                              > > mentioned that Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement. So I am
                              > > curious what other organization is out there that pinayatheist may
                              > > also be interested in?
                              > >
                              > > T
                              > >
                              > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                              > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I don't know their organization and I am not sure on how they
                              > > brought (if there was a case) their feminism in public debate.
                              > > > The original feminist movement (early 19th) is geared mostly on
                              > > equal right on contract and property and the right to vote. Even at
                              > > that time feminism involve wide range of women, some belonging to
                              > > conservative religious group while others belong to the militant
                              > > outfit. In the US, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony were
                              > > active in the abolition of slavery later to involvement in the
                              > > movement for women's right to vote.
                              > > >
                              > > > The second upsurge of feminism was determined to be in the 60's in
                              > > which the concern was mainly equality and being against discrimination
                              > > by virtue of sex. This was the time when the phrase Women's Lib was
                              > > born. These were the women who "burn the bra".
                              > > >
                              > > > While the 60's Libbers are tolerant to abortion, the original
                              > > feminists are hostile to abortion.
                              > > >
                              > > > Gabriella represents only a portion of feminist movement � the
                              > > militant/radical variety. Some women fight/argue for their basic
                              > > rights but recognize the difference in sex, as God decreed it to be
                              > > and yet, they rightly call themselves Feminist.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > From: tony <paetenian@. ..>
                              > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:23:28 AM
                              > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                              > Benj?
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com, jose mario sison
                              > > > <joma_sison@ ...> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Being a feminist means differently to different women.
                              > > >
                              > > > That may very well be but which are the other women and what
                              > > > organizations do they belong to that have taken the step to bring
                              > > > their feminism into the public debate?
                              > > >
                              > > > T
                              > > >
                              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > > From: tony <paetenian@ ..>
                              > > > > To: pinoy_atheists@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:05:12 AM
                              > > > > Subject: [pinoy_atheists] Re: Hello. Guys question - What's 'BULL'
                              > > Benj?
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Benj Espina wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Gabriela doesn't own the feminist movement.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Pardon my ignorance but besides Gabriela, what other movements are
                              > > > > advocating feminism? I would think our answers will be what we
                              > usually
                              > > > > categorize as "left-leaning militants". Unfortunately, the word
                              > "left"
                              > > > > is much too broad a word nowadays. The left has serious issues it
                              > want
                              > > > > the government to look into and I think they have valid and pressing
                              > > > > issues given that 20% of our population subsists on $1 a day.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > T
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Benjamin A. Espina III
                              > Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                              > Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                              > Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                              > Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                              > UP College of Medicine Class of 2010
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > http://www.philippineatheists.org/Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              --
                              Benjamin A. Espina III
                              Author and Founder, Phil Debate - http://phildebate.com
                              Co-author and Co-owner, Visit Sagada - http://visitsagada.com
                              Press Secretary, Filipino Voices - http://filipinovoices.com
                              Author and Owner, Atheista.net - http://atheista.net
                              UP College of Medicine Class of 2010


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