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6891Re: The Pro-Life Vs Pro-choice Debate: Where should atheists stand?

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  • pecierpoldo
    Jan 1, 2008
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      If someone coerces another person to submit herself to abortion,
      where's the CHOICE in there? I think the key word in the pro-choice
      agenda is not ABORTION, but CHOICE. A line must be drawn between the
      pro-choice people, those who want to give the choice to the woman and
      family involved, and the pro-abortion people, who think the best
      solution is abortion.

      By the way, I do not like the name "pro-life". Those people aren't
      really pro-life. Look at what "pro-life" Atienza had done to many
      families Manila in his tenure as Manila City Mayor, at how he withdrew
      all condoms and other contraceptives from all of Manila's public
      health centers. I believe to be pro-choice is to be truly pro-life.
      Life is not just about the quantity, its also about the quality. And
      how can we provide quality life for our children if we are not given
      the choice? The choice, that is, to help start a human life or to
      prevent it from starting?

      I am pro-life, I am for a good quality of life in this country, that
      is why I am pro-choice.

      --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "simpleleila" <simpleleila@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi din,
      >
      > I would probably say, (and in fact already did tell my friend i was
      > talking about), "hey, don't do it YET" instead sa direchong "don't
      > do it". Up to 3 months naman eh embryo pa daw matatawag so abortion
      > can still be safe. I would let a woman think things over. Like i
      > said, pag nasa lowest low ang tao it's difficult to make decisions
      > that can alter the course of his or her life. That's the only
      > situation i can think of right now na sasabihin kong "dont do it
      > yet."
      >
      > If she says she'd thought things over and she's made up her mind
      > then i would tell her to find a safe abortion clinic, which
      > unfortunately is hard to find here in the Phils.
      >
      > Gulo pa din ba?.... oh, and i remember, to be a pro-choice is also
      > giving other options such as adoption. Lalo na if the pregnancy is
      > accidental, she can also choose to continue her pregnancy at ibigay
      > ang magiging anak nya dun sa mga walang anak. That makes sense to
      > me.
      >
      >
      > len
      >
      > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, jose mario sison
      > <joma_sison@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi!
      > >
      > > Thanks for the reply
      > >
      > > Parang merong mali ang tanong ko. I will repeat again, ha? You
      > and me are pro-choicers. We both respect the wish of the woman
      > involved. Will there be a situation when we can say to the woman
      > that "hey, dont do it"?
      > >
      > > I know, what you mean is that when the bf is forcing her to
      > terminate and she can always say no. But, is there any other
      > situation?
      > >
      > > Gulo ano, but I would appreciate a view.
      > >
      > > joma
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > simpleleila <simpleleila@> wrote:
      > > Hi Joma,
      > >
      > > I will be against abortion if it's another person who tells a
      > woman
      > > to terminate her pregnancy, say an irresponsible man who would a
      > > woman he impregnated to get an abortion because HE isn't ready or
      > HE
      > > simply does not want to assume responsibility.
      > >
      > > len
      > >
      > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, jose mario sison
      > > <joma_sison@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > hi there, simpleleila!
      > > > Up to what extent will you be "against" an abortion?
      > > >
      > > > joma
      > > >
      > > > simpleleila <simpleleila@> wrote:
      > > > being pro-life or pro-choice is not about being an
      > > atheist or
      > > > theist. it's about respecting a woman's right to control her own
      > > > body. pro-life advocates make it a moral issue. but there are
      > > other
      > > > things to consider.
      > > >
      > > > i was once approached by a friend who wanted to have an abortion
      > > > thinking that i would support her decision. i am pro-choice and
      > i
      > > > could easily accompany her to an abortion clinic... but then it
      > is
      > > > her choice and her decision that should matter. not mine. being
      > > pro-
      > > > choice doesn't mean just letting any woman terminate pregnancy.
      > it
      > > > means giving her choice.
      > > >
      > > > len
      > > >
      > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "cityspiker"
      > <cityspiker@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > In all cases of unwanted pregnancy, the impregnated has the
      > > right
      > > > to abort!
      > > > >
      > > > > cityspiker
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, jose mario sison
      > > > <joma_sison@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Despite commonality in disbelie in a god or god, i am under
      > > the
      > > > impression that many
      > > > > 'atheists' are 'divided' on the issue.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > for me, it is situational. for example;
      > > > > > if the fetus is determined to be sick with down syndrome or
      > > > terminal disease - the
      > > > > parents has the right to decide.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > if the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest and the
      > mother
      > > > does not want to be
      > > > > reminded - she has the right to decide.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > if the pregnancy is a result of one night stand - its down
      > to
      > > > the mother.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > in a planned pregnancy, it is irresponsible to terminate but
      > > > that is still her choice
      > > > > >
      > > > > > NOW, I realised its all down to mother - she can select
      > freely
      > > > what she want.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ackie82990 <ackie82990@> wrote:
      > > > > > I very much agree with your point. But I could argue
      > > > similarly about
      > > > > > the pregnant woman. It really is situational. There are a
      > lot
      > > > more
      > > > > > factors involved. But whoa... haha. I think that abortion
      > shit
      > > > really
      > > > > > hurts. >_<
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In pinoy_atheists@yahoogroups.com, "Benj Espina"
      > > > > > <swingonthespiral@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Despite the supposed link between secularism/atheism and
      > the
      > > > > > > pro-choice movement, I am very much aligned with a pro-
      > life
      > > > stance.
      > > > > > > Why? Here's my rationale.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > 1. Life as the only means of existence.
      > > > > > > Since atheists do not believe in an afterlife, I believe
      > > that
      > > > atheists
      > > > > > > should value it more. The extent of existence is defined
      > by
      > > > your
      > > > > > > lifespan, denying one individual that opportunity is in
      > fact
      > > > criminal.
      > > > > > > I think a pro-choice stance betrays the very idea of the
      > > > importance of
      > > > > > > human life on a secular level. I think that's the most
      > > > compelling
      > > > > > > secular argument for the value of life.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > 2. Life as a result of a statistical improbability.
      > > > > > > Once an embryo forms in its natural environment, it can be
      > > > considered
      > > > > > > as the one combination out of a quadrillion permutations
      > of
      > > > ova and
      > > > > > > spermatozoa. The individual that would be yielded from each
      > > > > > > combination is different, thus, the resulting individual
      > is a
      > > > > > > benefactor of a startling statistical odds.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > From a meritocratic standpoint (hehe), I think that level
      > of
      > > > defiance
      > > > > > > of odds warrants respect from people who understand this
      > > > process.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Have a nice day.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Benj
      > > > > > > http://atheista.net
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
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      > > >
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