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RE: [pilotsppgclub] Re: Looking to get into PPG and would like to know what a good entry level syste

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  • Raymond McMahon
    Hi Bob, Checkout the Dudek Plus glider its a great intermediate free flight glider, but PPg s great also.... Regards Ray . To: pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 28, 2009
      Hi Bob,

      Checkout the Dudek Plus glider its a great intermediate free flight glider, but PPg's great also....


      Regards Ray .






      To: pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com
      From: mjnowland@...
      Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:31:22 +0000
      Subject: [pilotsppgclub] Re: Looking to get into PPG and would like to know what a good entry level syste





      --- In pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com, "drexstudio" <bobfranklin@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I'm currently in a similar situation, and would like some feedback
      on what to buy, with a
      > free-flight wing being the requirement.
      >
      > I would never buy a PPG wing that was designed for power because
      I don't want to own
      > or spend the money on 2 different wings, and free flying is my
      main interest. I think that
      > power-designed wings do not do well in free flight as regular
      paragliders, but free flight
      > wings do well as powered wings. Now I know that will invite some
      flames, but it really has
      > to do with what you expect from the sport.
      >
      > From what I've witnessed, most PPG pilots want fast for their wing
      and typically fly low as
      > the main regime, and a power oriented wing is probably best for
      them. I'm not that
      > interested in swooping around with foot drags and such. I'm
      interested in getting in the
      > air, getting some altitude and cruising around. I don't think I
      need a swooper to achieve
      > that.

      ******

      Bob, for you and your planned style of flying, a free-flight wing
      will be certainly be best. As you have said, most PPG pilots fly in
      a manner that differs from free flying, and will prefer a purpose-
      built power wing.

      There isn't much point, for most of us, to accept the compromises of
      a 'combination' wing. You know you'll fly without power most of the
      time, so a wing optimzed for unpowered flight is the clear choice.
      Relatively few PPG pilots ever fly without power, and most of those
      few do it rarely, so they're happiest with dedicated motor wings.

      Once in a while, I run across statements like one posted earlier, to
      the effect that a wing optimized for flight with no motor will also
      be best for powered flight. I don't follow the reasoning; does that
      mean that a street motorcycle is better on the street, and the
      dirt? That a sailboat is better for getting places now, or a
      powerboat for quiet, economical relaxation? That a sedan is always
      better than a pickup truck?

      My Plasma glides very efficiently, but I don't have illusions that
      it will out-climb the best free-flight wings in weak thermals. Nor
      do I believe that there are free flight wings that are better for
      long, high, 40mph powered XC flights.

      People who choose the way you and I have, by thinking about their
      main interest and buying a wing that's really good at it, will be
      most satisfied in the long run.

      Fly high,

      Mike Nowland










      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Shane
      If you are looking for a great free flying wing I have an 08 Gradient Golden II for sale. Wing is in perfect shape,Size 30 and asking $2000 ... From: Mike
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 28, 2009
        If you are looking for a great free flying wing I have an 08 Gradient Golden II for sale. Wing is in perfect shape,Size 30 and asking $2000

        --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Mike Nowland <mjnowland@...> wrote:

        From: Mike Nowland <mjnowland@...>
        Subject: [pilotsppgclub] Re: Looking to get into PPG and would like to know what a good entry level syste
        To: pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 2:31 PM






        --- In pilotsppgclub@ yahoogroups. com, "drexstudio" <bobfranklin@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I'm currently in a similar situation, and would like some feedback
        on what to buy, with a
        > free-flight wing being the requirement.
        >
        > I would never buy a PPG wing that was designed for power because
        I don't want to own
        > or spend the money on 2 different wings, and free flying is my
        main interest. I think that
        > power-designed wings do not do well in free flight as regular
        paragliders, but free flight
        > wings do well as powered wings. Now I know that will invite some
        flames, but it really has
        > to do with what you expect from the sport.
        >
        > From what I've witnessed, most PPG pilots want fast for their wing
        and typically fly low as
        > the main regime, and a power oriented wing is probably best for
        them. I'm not that
        > interested in swooping around with foot drags and such. I'm
        interested in getting in the
        > air, getting some altitude and cruising around. I don't think I
        need a swooper to achieve
        > that.

        ******

        Bob, for you and your planned style of flying, a free-flight wing
        will be certainly be best. As you have said, most PPG pilots fly in
        a manner that differs from free flying, and will prefer a purpose-
        built power wing.

        There isn't much point, for most of us, to accept the compromises of
        a 'combination' wing. You know you'll fly without power most of the
        time, so a wing optimzed for unpowered flight is the clear choice.
        Relatively few PPG pilots ever fly without power, and most of those
        few do it rarely, so they're happiest with dedicated motor wings.

        Once in a while, I run across statements like one posted earlier, to
        the effect that a wing optimized for flight with no motor will also
        be best for powered flight. I don't follow the reasoning; does that
        mean that a street motorcycle is better on the street, and the
        dirt? That a sailboat is better for getting places now, or a
        powerboat for quiet, economical relaxation? That a sedan is always
        better than a pickup truck?

        My Plasma glides very efficiently, but I don't have illusions that
        it will out-climb the best free-flight wings in weak thermals. Nor
        do I believe that there are free flight wings that are better for
        long, high, 40mph powered XC flights.

        People who choose the way you and I have, by thinking about their
        main interest and buying a wing that's really good at it, will be
        most satisfied in the long run.

        Fly high,

        Mike Nowland



















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brian Tunnard
        Hi Bob (& Mike) Just wanted to say that I agree totally with Mike s take on this ... it s best to buy the wing that is designed from the outset, to fly in
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
          Hi Bob (& Mike)

          Just wanted to say that I agree totally with Mike's 'take' on this ...
          it's best to buy the wing that is designed from the outset, to fly in
          the style that you're intending to do most... if you're going to free
          fly for 95% of the time, then buy the best free flight wing you can
          afford ... the only other 'proviso' on this is to make sure it is
          certified as a 'beginner' (more forgiving) wing i.e. DHV 1 or 1-2 ...
          there are various other certification standards (see 'borrowed' chart
          below): ...

          Certification Comparison
          Organization Rating Values
          Differences DHV - German 1, 1-2, 2, 2-3, 3
          For collapses and other maneuvers, rates based more on recovery
          than entry resistance. Test pilot makes the ratings.
          EN (CEN) - European A, B, C, D Combination of entry
          resistance and ease of recovery. SHV - Swiss
          & AFNOR Standard, Performance, Competition
          DULV Standard, Advanced, Competition Concentrates on
          testing with a motor in those areas more likely to cause
          problems under power. DMSV Standard,
          Performance, Competition Hope this
          helps?Good Luck

          Oh ... and get some good training .... make friends with other 'free
          flyers' in your area and see who they recommend?

          [:)] Happy Landings (& take-off's!) [:)]

          Brian 'Turbo' Tunnard
          The Cloud Hoppers Paramotor Club
          <http://sites.google.com/site/cloudhoppers/Home>



          --- In pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nowland" <mjnowland@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com, "drexstudio" bobfranklin@
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm currently in a similar situation, and would like some feedback
          > on what to buy, with a
          > > free-flight wing being the requirement.
          > >
          > > I would never buy a PPG wing that was designed for power because
          > I don't want to own
          > > or spend the money on 2 different wings, and free flying is my
          > main interest. I think that
          > > power-designed wings do not do well in free flight as regular
          > paragliders, but free flight
          > > wings do well as powered wings. Now I know that will invite some
          > flames, but it really has
          > > to do with what you expect from the sport.
          > >
          > > From what I've witnessed, most PPG pilots want fast for their wing
          > and typically fly low as
          > > the main regime, and a power oriented wing is probably best for
          > them. I'm not that
          > > interested in swooping around with foot drags and such. I'm
          > interested in getting in the
          > > air, getting some altitude and cruising around. I don't think I
          > need a swooper to achieve
          > > that.
          >
          > ******
          >
          > Bob, for you and your planned style of flying, a free-flight wing
          > will be certainly be best. As you have said, most PPG pilots fly in
          > a manner that differs from free flying, and will prefer a purpose-
          > built power wing.
          >
          > There isn't much point, for most of us, to accept the compromises of
          > a 'combination' wing. You know you'll fly without power most of the
          > time, so a wing optimzed for unpowered flight is the clear choice.
          > Relatively few PPG pilots ever fly without power, and most of those
          > few do it rarely, so they're happiest with dedicated motor wings.
          >
          > Once in a while, I run across statements like one posted earlier, to
          > the effect that a wing optimized for flight with no motor will also
          > be best for powered flight. I don't follow the reasoning; does that
          > mean that a street motorcycle is better on the street, and the
          > dirt? That a sailboat is better for getting places now, or a
          > powerboat for quiet, economical relaxation? That a sedan is always
          > better than a pickup truck?
          >
          > My Plasma glides very efficiently, but I don't have illusions that
          > it will out-climb the best free-flight wings in weak thermals. Nor
          > do I believe that there are free flight wings that are better for
          > long, high, 40mph powered XC flights.
          >
          > People who choose the way you and I have, by thinking about their
          > main interest and buying a wing that's really good at it, will be
          > most satisfied in the long run.
          >
          > Fly high,
          >
          > Mike Nowland
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Brian Tunnard
          Hi Guys Just thought I d better credit where the information I posted came from: ... so here s the full link from Foot Flyer (a great source of information,
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2009
            Hi Guys

            Just thought I'd better credit where the information I posted came from:
            ... so here's the full link from 'Foot Flyer' (a great source of
            information, by the way) ... it's listed as an update to Jeff Goin's
            'must have' book the 'PPG Bible'.

            Wing Certification (& stuff)
            <http://footflyer.com/PPGBibleUpdates/Chapter26Wing/certification.htm>

            I'd just like to add one more thing ... the above certifications do NOT
            really apply to any of the current 'REFLEX' powered paraglider specific
            wings (when they have been trimmed into reflex mode), especially the
            collapse resistance testing.

            These types of wing are 'inherently' more stable to collapse (when in
            reflex mode) ... BUT ... if you FORCE them to collapse, for testing
            purposes - by extreme pulling on the 'A's to induce a collapse etc ...
            then they will recover in a much more dynamic way, and fail the test or
            be wrongly classified as a more 'advanced' wing.

            Paramania are currently 'leading the way' to get a different type of
            certification for these types of wing that takes the 'reflex'
            characteristics into account for powered paragliders.


            [:)] Happy Landings (& take-off's!) [:)]

            Brian 'Turbo' Tunnard
            The Cloud Hoppers Paramotor Club
            <http://sites.google.com/site/cloudhoppers/Home>


            --- In pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nowland" <mjnowland@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In pilotsppgclub@yahoogroups.com, "drexstudio" bobfranklin@
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > I'm currently in a similar situation, and would like some feedback
            > on what to buy, with a
            > > free-flight wing being the requirement.
            > >
            > > I would never buy a PPG wing that was designed for power because
            > I don't want to own
            > > or spend the money on 2 different wings, and free flying is my
            > main interest. I think that
            > > power-designed wings do not do well in free flight as regular
            > paragliders, but free flight
            > > wings do well as powered wings. Now I know that will invite some
            > flames, but it really has
            > > to do with what you expect from the sport.
            > >
            > > From what I've witnessed, most PPG pilots want fast for their wing
            > and typically fly low as
            > > the main regime, and a power oriented wing is probably best for
            > them. I'm not that
            > > interested in swooping around with foot drags and such. I'm
            > interested in getting in the
            > > air, getting some altitude and cruising around. I don't think I
            > need a swooper to achieve
            > > that.
            >
            > ******
            >
            > Bob, for you and your planned style of flying, a free-flight wing
            > will be certainly be best. As you have said, most PPG pilots fly in
            > a manner that differs from free flying, and will prefer a purpose-
            > built power wing.
            >
            > There isn't much point, for most of us, to accept the compromises of
            > a 'combination' wing. You know you'll fly without power most of the
            > time, so a wing optimzed for unpowered flight is the clear choice.
            > Relatively few PPG pilots ever fly without power, and most of those
            > few do it rarely, so they're happiest with dedicated motor wings.
            >
            > Once in a while, I run across statements like one posted earlier, to
            > the effect that a wing optimized for flight with no motor will also
            > be best for powered flight. I don't follow the reasoning; does that
            > mean that a street motorcycle is better on the street, and the
            > dirt? That a sailboat is better for getting places now, or a
            > powerboat for quiet, economical relaxation? That a sedan is always
            > better than a pickup truck?
            >
            > My Plasma glides very efficiently, but I don't have illusions that
            > it will out-climb the best free-flight wings in weak thermals. Nor
            > do I believe that there are free flight wings that are better for
            > long, high, 40mph powered XC flights.
            >
            > People who choose the way you and I have, by thinking about their
            > main interest and buying a wing that's really good at it, will be
            > most satisfied in the long run.
            >
            > Fly high,
            >
            > Mike Nowland
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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