I whole heartedly agree with Hasin bhai. and you as well. My point was
not about disagreeing, my point was, who are entering the world, let
them not be over crowded with so much pressure. His post was an
excellent one. In fact, I myself was checking Cake PHP after seeing
his post (before I used Code Igniter). But, without these things I
have made some good sites. And without these, people have made many
great sites. So, I was trying to tell everybody that, learn all these,
but, more importantly, create more. "I will have to use this, and this
and this and that, else everything will fail" this idea will resist
people from making things. Just here was my point that, people should
make things, and learn by that. In Hasin bhai's post, actually he was
a enforcing. That is why my post, to relax the forcing. That's all.
See, many great sites have been made, and are yet being made, without
Liquid Design. Liquid design is a new concept, have many good parts,
but also comes up with some problems too. Try to make some very
complicated site with Liquid design, and you will find what I mean
where there are many divs under many divs with liquid design.
I have been using SVN for about a year, that is a great technology,
and you don't need to learn or get used to with almost like nothing.
But, here, your total programming structure is changed when you start
coding in Cake PHP. My point is, is it necessary to over burden and
kind of forget, how you used to write Sql, and adopt a whole new
concept. I wonder how much that is worth. But, yes, that is a personal
choice probably. I was just stating mine. And I know many other, even
in this group, posses same mentality or some body think, those are
good but we are not good enough. May be that is true. But, nobody
dares to say that. I just thought why don't I be the first idiot to
say that, hehe.
On 1/27/07, Elie Zedeck RANDRIAMIANDRIRAY <elie.zedeck@ mel.wanadoo. mg> wrote:
> Me personally, I think that Hasin was right on most of his points. I have been developing with PHP for a long time already, and I find that what he said was quite TRUE (== 1 ;-) ). Though, I did not see his post, but I realized that I was just doing what he was saying.
> I then conclude, that if you really going to make a real big application, you're going to need a lot of other backgrounds to tackle the work. Doing PHP alone is nothing; it must be combined with dozens of other things.
> Let admit it, you're not just doing text with the Web ! you do Multimedia, you do Exchange with other programming languages, you do lots of other things !
> Recently, I found-out my self learning and integrating Subversion (SVN) to my work, and dumping out the (almost) deprecated CVS versionning system. This is because the Trend is going to SVN now, and soon, you will find yourself working with people that only work with SVN, and what you do if you don't know SVN ? you're gonna be the big looser, because people will want to work only with people that are comfortable with what they like, not what you like.
> Thus, a second conclusion is to follow the Trend (and if possible, detect it, and get ahead) ! Follow the trend guys, that's the only way to earn more money. (don't say either that you don't like money ? !!!). But not dumbly following it, but be sharp, be intelligent, be curious, have a vision of the future...
> If you watch the codings of Professional Web applications, you will find out that they are quite complex. Badly for some of you who are always looking for easy things, but Easy coding, will result in Bad Application.
> Whether you look at Extensibility, Compatibility, Longevity, ... you will find out, that Complex codes are in fact Easy, when you really dig in it.
> Complex applications means, support for wider stuffs. And dare say that application that supports many things don't get popular ? open your eyes!
> I usually teach students of PHP, but the first thing I teach them, is to learn to do things with "Complex but Efficient" philosophy in mind. Which means, not just Complex codes, but also Efficient codes. Simple codes could be efficient, but not in the long run.
> Complex codes are usually the result of lot of Knowledge and Experiences. So, when you code it the Simple way, people usually think, that the guy who coded it is not sharp !!!
> That's my own Idea, you're all free to share yours.
> Elie Zedeck.
> Raisul Kabir wrote:
> Hi all,
> Everybody has been very stiff and shrink reading Hasin bhai's comment
> about PHP alone will give you nothing. Specially those who are not
> advanced like Hasin bhai or others and kind of newbie like me. This is
> a post for them.
> Do you know what PHP standed for? Personal Home Page. Back on old
> days, when PERL like complicated language was ruling web world, Rasmus
> Lerdorf decided to make a simple, yet powerful tool, well, for his
> home page, so that he can make it dynamic, and don't need to go
> through the pain of complicated programming to upgrade it.
> So, then things changed, PHP advanced to a lot more powerful, and was
> simple, yes, WAS simple. Then, the programming guru's decided, Yallah,
> so simple thing is ruling world, taking our bread (not Hasin bhai,
> more guru, upper guru ;-) so they decided to make it complex. And
> other people joined with them. Who? Those who were thinking, ahm,
> people will not value so simple thing. So, make it complex, people
> will value more :-)
> Then about web design, it was also simple, back old days, when you
> were making websites with tables, pages were so consistent over all
> browsers. You don't have to make them float and while floating, you
> don't know where they go with the tidal wave (well where there is
> floating, there may be some wave in the water, right?)
> The main Guru, Rasmus, made it for simple and unintelligent people
> like us. Of course there are some obvious benefits of doing OOP, but
> it obviously makes it complex and time consuming. Say, you want to
> show the table "Notes". You go to controller, add some code, go to
> view, add some code, and then do it. For inline php, you just do code
> once in a file, and it is done. One PHP file, does it all. After a
> month, you need to change something. You have forgot everything, just
> start the web app, see where the note is showing, open the page, edit
> it, and done. You don't need to remember where you coded the
> controller, and go back and forth between two pages to change one
> Besides, don't everybody agree that it consumes your processor power?
> For scripting, a file connects with database, then returns the result
> in an array, and you show it, simple! And for OOP, a file connects
> with database, then pours the data in another array, that array is
> passed to another page, that page again goes through the whole array,
> and finally uses database. This is a very intelligent way, no doubt,
> but I have a confusion if it is very good for PHP, since PHP makes the
> pages on the fly, unlike Java or ASP.net. So, it may be a performance
> issue, but yet I'm not sure.
> But, I do agree that for bigger application, it is a must to use OOP,
> but why bother small application with that burden and extra time?
> See, flyspray, a popular bug tracking software, with many features,
> has codes in html. Though it has gained popularity and got no
> performance questions. So, I believe, the thing is, make websites,
> make applications, for you, as much as possible. Sharpen your
> thoughts, ideas, problem solving capacity. Don't overburden yourself
> with, ok I'll have to go there and there and there. Compete with
> Ahm, sorry, it was intended for a fun post, gone little bit serious.
> But let me clarify the reason. I run a very small company, I also need
> to hire people. When I take their interview, I hardly can find anybody
> with the experience that Hasin bhai was writing in his mail. In fact,
> I don't find any. But, even if I find a person, who can at least
> understand web, understand cookies, sessions, when to use them, how to
> use them, how to solve a database, I can start working with them. Goto
> doodle.ch, a very simple application. You don't need to bother about
> framework or anything. Just html,php,mySql. But, if I take an
> interview of 50 people, 47 of them will not be able to solve that
> simple database. Then what will I do with people who have knowledge
> about this complex things. Knowledge is very important, but much more
> important is being able to use them perfectly. You may have a Bazooka,
> but if perfectly used, you can win a fight against a bazooka just with
> a sword if you know the use.
> I'm sorry if I offended anybody. My post was not to hurt anybody, but
> just to relax normal people like me.
> Best wishes to all.
> Visit phpXperts website at www.phpxperts. com
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