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Re: [photographic-techniques] studio set up question

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  • Baume FotoArte
    city kid?? yeah, I guess I earned that one...my idea of roughin it would be not having cable or internet...in the hotel...I am pretty much screwed out of
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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      city kid?? yeah, I guess I earned that one...my idea of roughin it would be not having cable or internet...in the hotel...I am pretty much screwed out of camping because of my wife's trauma-filled childhood. Her folks went on a camping trip...they stop at a rest stop the kids stay in the trailer, her parent go inside...while they are inside, two guys try to steal the trailer with the kids still inside...the trip spiraled down from there...

      by the way, welcome back sergio...sage advice. I also have one of those background support systems you recommend. I use the tent poles to put up two space blankets at right angles. I have also been working on a bubble wrap prop--I'd use colored flash behind it. A friend of mine has a shiny silver top I want her to wear on this "set." My 12 yr old thinks it's really cool for her hamster, too. lol

      ciao,
      Evan



      Greg Vincent <gvincent@...> wrote:
      Hi Folks,

      If you have a simple system for hanging your backgrounds, then go for
      it. Otherwise, take Sergio's advice. These systems assemble
      quickly, are sturdy and adjustable for width and height, and pack up
      into their own carry-case for ease of storage and transportation.

      If anyone is looking into the collapsible metal tent poles to use for
      holding their backdrops, just look up "collapsible metal tent poles"
      and you'll probably find what you want :-) :-) (Darned city kids).

      Thanks Sergio,

      At 05:35 PM 5/31/2007, you wrote:
      >Just adding my 2 cents to this thread. For under $100
      >you can get backdrop support systems from B&H that
      >would work perfectly with no sagging in the center.
      >They start around $79 and go up to several hundred
      >dollars. I have one that cost $179 and when I don't
      >need it, I dismantle it put it away (10 minutes). I
      >use it for muslin and seemless paper backdrops. The
      >one I have can be assembled for 6ft, 9ft or 12ft wide.
      >and It stretches up to 10ft high. Sergio

      Greg Vincent





      ______________________________
      Evan Baumhofer alias "Baume"
      http://www.pbase.com/baume_1/root&view=recent

      Heimbachstr 34A
      67716 Heltersberg
      privat 06333-602760
      mobile 01762-515-9492

      baume_fotoarte@...





      ---------------------------------
      Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
      Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrea
      I really liked the look of paper and I have a vinyl now too. Here is a trick that I learned...at the bottom you are always getting footprints or paper is
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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        I really liked the look of paper and I have a vinyl now too. Here is a trick that I learned...at the bottom you are always getting footprints or paper is getting ripped. Go out to Lowe's or other home improvement store and find yourself a piece of white paneling. (erase-a-board type that is glossy) and put at the bottom. You will have no rips or footprints. You can also use plexi glass, but the white paneling looks soo much better.

        HTH
        Andrea

        greg dillon <gregdillongreg@...> wrote:
        just a quick response to the use of white vinyl for studio portraiture,i have used it in our studio, its strong and durable, there is a mild shine but if the background is lit properly there is no problem, it will have to be 1and a half stops over the main subject, otherwise it will be dull and grey.

        The final point i would make it is very heavy approx 15 -17 kg for a 10x10, we made a special rigging of stainless steel tubing to the exact diameter of the core and still had problems of slippage, if it collapses you may have permanent creases on the vinyl.

        the best solution and by far the safest is to use a white paper for background, it gives a much smoother fall off and no sheen and then to use the white vinyl on the floor that's the current trend in Ireland at the moment

        grspette66@... wrote:

        Brook,

        I'd stay away from vinyl, especially white. I would be afraid of unwanted
        sheen or specular reflectance. Just my humble opinion
        I believe the "paper core" they refer to is a long tube that long roll paper
        is attached to. Probably about 6 inches in diameter. Just take a piece of
        thin wood and screw it over the end of the vinyl to the tube. Glue might also
        work. Then roll it up and it will never have any folding marks. Most
        backdrops are held and stored that way also. Ofcourse you will need a tube the
        same length as the width of your backdrop.

        Jerry

        Jerry Spette

        Membership Host
        Color Camera Club of Westchester Co., NY
        www.ColorCameraClub.org

        In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:59:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        vbw20@... writes:

        i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company says
        they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper core.
        where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
        mounting the backdrop on there?

        Brooke

        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ---------------------------------
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        Andrea Honse
        www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
        http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/

        www.myspace.com/andreahonse






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Derrick
        Brooke, Vinyl works fine for me, as well as paper and textured/muslin drops. My primary backdrop system is a Bogen kit I got from a photographer closing up
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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          Brooke,

          Vinyl works fine for me, as well as paper and textured/muslin drops.

          My primary backdrop system is a Bogen kit I got from a photographer
          closing up shop in SF. There really is no substitute for the right
          gear, but there are great backups to be found at your local 5 and dime.

          My favorite is a shower curtain rod, with muslin unrolled directly off
          a bolt of 104" material. It's tri-folded to fit the bolt, but muslin
          relaxes well, and will go completely glamour white at +4 stops. The
          shower curtain rod expands into place up to about six feet. Works fine
          stuck in a doorway, or most closet openings.

          You can also use an actual curtain rod, on curtain rod hangers...hides
          well mounted in front of windows. Curtain rods also can be drilled
          with 1/4" holes at the ends, then filled with epoxy for 2" to
          reinforce the end. These fit well on tripods and light stands. Just
          remember to clamp on, or when someone bumps into them they fall apart.

          For a studio, you could mount ceiling-mount bicycle hangers (they type
          with multiple ridges), and hang multiple curtains each on their own
          rod. Although I'd switch to cardboard, 1" EMT, closet hanger rod/dowel
          or spun-aluminum tubing at that point. Not so collapsible.

          hth
          -Derrick

          --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, "Brooke Buchanan"
          <vbw20@...> wrote:
          >
          > i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company says
          > they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper core.
          > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
          > mounting the backdrop on there?
          >
          > Brooke
          >
        • Derrick
          They are referring to a 2 cardboard tube. Any paper or textile distributor will carry them. Mount by unfurling the vinyl, laying one edge centered on the
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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            They are referring to a 2" cardboard tube. Any paper or textile
            distributor will carry them. Mount by unfurling the vinyl, laying one
            edge centered on the tube, then tape down to tube with a single strip
            of 3" masking tape along the full edge, roll up and hang.

            Another thought, that vinyl sounds like it could be used for bonding
            to a sweep, for a more permanent installation. If you DO consider
            installing a sweep, I'd recommend just painting the sweep with an
            epoxy-coat. Really bonds well, cleans like a breeze, and lower
            specularity than vinyl or melamine.

            -D

            > ...the company...suggests mounting it on an empty paper core.
            > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
            > mounting the backdrop on there?
            >
            > Brooke
            >
          • s r
            OMG, that is the funniest thing I ve heard all day. A cool Backdrop for the Hamster. LOL. ...
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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              OMG, that is the funniest thing I've heard all day. A
              cool Backdrop for the Hamster. LOL.


              --- Baume FotoArte <baume_fotoarte@...> wrote:

              > city kid?? yeah, I guess I earned that one...my
              > idea of roughin it would be not having cable or
              > internet...in the hotel...I am pretty much screwed
              > out of camping because of my wife's trauma-filled
              > childhood. Her folks went on a camping trip...they
              > stop at a rest stop the kids stay in the trailer,
              > her parent go inside...while they are inside, two
              > guys try to steal the trailer with the kids still
              > inside...the trip spiraled down from there...
              >
              > by the way, welcome back sergio...sage advice. I
              > also have one of those background support systems
              > you recommend. I use the tent poles to put up two
              > space blankets at right angles. I have also been
              > working on a bubble wrap prop--I'd use colored flash
              > behind it. A friend of mine has a shiny silver top
              > I want her to wear on this "set." My 12 yr old
              > thinks it's really cool for her hamster, too. lol
              >
              > ciao,
              > Evan
              >
              >
              >
              > Greg Vincent <gvincent@...> wrote:
              > Hi Folks,
              >
              > If you have a simple system for hanging your
              > backgrounds, then go for
              > it. Otherwise, take Sergio's advice. These systems
              > assemble
              > quickly, are sturdy and adjustable for width and
              > height, and pack up
              > into their own carry-case for ease of storage and
              > transportation.
              >
              > If anyone is looking into the collapsible metal tent
              > poles to use for
              > holding their backdrops, just look up "collapsible
              > metal tent poles"
              > and you'll probably find what you want :-) :-)
              > (Darned city kids).
              >
              > Thanks Sergio,
              >
              > At 05:35 PM 5/31/2007, you wrote:
              > >Just adding my 2 cents to this thread. For under
              > $100
              > >you can get backdrop support systems from B&H that
              > >would work perfectly with no sagging in the center.
              > >They start around $79 and go up to several hundred
              > >dollars. I have one that cost $179 and when I don't
              > >need it, I dismantle it put it away (10 minutes). I
              > >use it for muslin and seemless paper backdrops. The
              > >one I have can be assembled for 6ft, 9ft or 12ft
              > wide.
              > >and It stretches up to 10ft high. Sergio
              >
              > Greg Vincent
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ______________________________
              > Evan Baumhofer alias "Baume"
              > http://www.pbase.com/baume_1/root&view=recent
              >
              > Heimbachstr 34A
              > 67716 Heltersberg
              > privat 06333-602760
              > mobile 01762-515-9492
              >
              > baume_fotoarte@...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -
              > their life, your story.
              > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
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            • Brooke Buchanan
              hanging them on bike racks to keep them out of your way is a good idea. how did you attach the b/g to the pvc, with duct tape, or what. what size pvc? my
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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                hanging them on bike racks to keep them out of your way is a good
                idea. how did you attach the b/g to the pvc, with duct tape, or
                what. what size pvc? my background stand is made with 3/4" pvc.

                Brooke

                --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, Andrea <ahdh4@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I still have a couple b/gs rolled up on pvc pipe. They hang from
                the ceiling with bike racks, I know a little hillbilly-ish but they
                are out of my way when I don't need them. LOL
                >
                > I have PSCS2 and started with Elements 3, if you can get away
                with working with it I say stick with it until you can afford to go
                higher. I wouldn't spend the money on upgrades until your ready for
                CS2 or even 3.
                >
                > Good luck
                > Andrea
                >
                > Brooke Buchanan <vbw20@...> wrote:
                > that's what my background stand is made out of. my
                husband just
                > finished it last weekend. he made it so i could change the
                > dimensions a couple of different ways. i was mainly just looking
                for
                > a way to roll my backdrops instead of folding them because folding
                > causes creases and wrinkles. i've managed to hide the wrinkles in
                > photoshop for black backgrounds and white backgrounds, but i
                haven't
                > shot anything on another color to see about editing those in
                > photoshop yet and wondered if it would be a pain. if not, then i
                > won't worry so much about it.
                >
                > i have a book about photoshop that i've been working with, and have
                > pretty much been through the whole thing, but there are still a lot
                > of features on there that i have no clue what they do and the book
                > doesn't touch on everything. i'm wondering if i should get another
                > book besides just depending on the one. i am currently using
                > photoshop elements 4.0 and have been thinking about upgrading to
                > elements 5.0 (i can not afford cs2 right now), but elements 4 seems
                > to be serving my purposes for the time being, so i will probably
                wait
                > a little bit.
                >
                > --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, Andrea <ahdh4@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > You could also go out and get PVC pipe. When I first started I
                > made a background stand from it. I've "grown up" since then tho! LOL
                > >
                > > HTH
                > > Andrea
                > >
                > > Greg Vincent <gvincent@> wrote:
                > > Hi Brooke,
                > >
                > > Find a photographer/studio that uses the large paper backdrops
                and
                > see if they have an old core laying around. You might also try a
                top
                > line photo store that stock the rolls as they might have something
                > too.
                > >
                > > Good old duck tape or gaffers tape should do. You want somewthing
                > to hold, yet break away if someone puts too much pressure on the
                > backdrop "when" that happens.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > Greg
                > >
                > > > From: "Brooke Buchanan" <vbw20@>
                > > > i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company
                > says
                > > > they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper
                > core.
                > > > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go
                > about
                > > > mounting the backdrop on there?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Andrea Honse
                > > www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
                > > http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/
                > >
                > > www.myspace.com/andreahonse
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Andrea Honse
                > www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
                > http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/
                >
                > www.myspace.com/andreahonse
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Brooke Buchanan
                i wondered if vinyl would cause a sheen or reflection from the photo lights too. i just assumed that if these items sell, someone must be liking them. all of
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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                  i wondered if vinyl would cause a sheen or reflection from the photo
                  lights too. i just assumed that if these items sell, someone must be
                  liking them. all of my backdrops are fabric (fabric i've picked up
                  at fabric stores or king size flat sheets). the main one i seem to
                  be having a problem with as far as wrinkles right now is the white
                  sheet. i fix the wrinkles in photoshop, but it's very time consuming
                  and sometimes in order to blow out the appearance of the wrinkles in
                  the photograph, i feel that i have to lighten the background to much
                  in photoshop.

                  --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, grspette66@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Brook,
                  >
                  > I'd stay away from vinyl, especially white. I would be afraid of
                  unwanted
                  > sheen or specular reflectance. Just my humble opinion
                  > I believe the "paper core" they refer to is a long tube that long
                  roll paper
                  > is attached to. Probably about 6 inches in diameter. Just take a
                  piece of
                  > thin wood and screw it over the end of the vinyl to the tube. Glue
                  might also
                  > work. Then roll it up and it will never have any folding marks.
                  Most
                  > backdrops are held and stored that way also. Ofcourse you will
                  need a tube the
                  > same length as the width of your backdrop.
                  >
                  > Jerry
                  >
                  >
                  > Jerry Spette
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Membership Host
                  > Color Camera Club of Westchester Co., NY
                  > www.ColorCameraClub.org
                  >
                  > In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:59:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  > vbw20@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company
                  says
                  > they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper
                  core.
                  > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
                  > mounting the backdrop on there?
                  >
                  > Brooke
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ************************************** See what's free at
                  http://www.aol.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Brooke Buchanan
                  do you not have a seam in your photographs where the paper and vinyl meet? ... portraiture,i have used it in our studio, its strong and durable, there is a
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 1, 2007
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                    do you not have a seam in your photographs where the paper and vinyl
                    meet?

                    --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, greg dillon
                    <gregdillongreg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > just a quick response to the use of white vinyl for studio
                    portraiture,i have used it in our studio, its strong and durable,
                    there is a mild shine but if the background is lit properly there is
                    no problem, it will have to be 1and a half stops over the main
                    subject, otherwise it will be dull and grey.
                    >
                    > The final point i would make it is very heavy approx 15 -17 kg
                    for a 10x10, we made a special rigging of stainless steel tubing to
                    the exact diameter of the core and still had problems of slippage, if
                    it collapses you may have permanent creases on the vinyl.
                    >
                    > the best solution and by far the safest is to use a white paper
                    for background, it gives a much smoother fall off and no sheen and
                    then to use the white vinyl on the floor that's the current trend in
                    Ireland at the moment
                    >
                    > grspette66@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Brook,
                    >
                    > I'd stay away from vinyl, especially white. I would be afraid of
                    unwanted
                    > sheen or specular reflectance. Just my humble opinion
                    > I believe the "paper core" they refer to is a long tube that long
                    roll paper
                    > is attached to. Probably about 6 inches in diameter. Just take a
                    piece of
                    > thin wood and screw it over the end of the vinyl to the tube. Glue
                    might also
                    > work. Then roll it up and it will never have any folding marks.
                    Most
                    > backdrops are held and stored that way also. Ofcourse you will need
                    a tube the
                    > same length as the width of your backdrop.
                    >
                    > Jerry
                    >
                    >
                    > Jerry Spette
                    >
                    > Membership Host
                    > Color Camera Club of Westchester Co., NY
                    > www.ColorCameraClub.org
                    >
                    > In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:59:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    > vbw20@... writes:
                    >
                    > i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company says
                    > they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper
                    core.
                    > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
                    > mounting the backdrop on there?
                    >
                    > Brooke
                    >
                    > ************************************** See what's free at
                    http://www.aol.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less,
                    sign up for your freeaccount today.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Ez2cDave@aol.com
                    In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:59:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vbw20@yahoo.com writes: i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company says
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 2, 2007
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                      In a message dated 5/30/2007 2:59:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      vbw20@... writes:

                      i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company says
                      they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper core.
                      where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go about
                      mounting the backdrop on there?

                      Brooke



                      ******************************************************************************
                      ***************************

                      Brooke,

                      "Empty Paper Cores" are readily available . . . Usually for FREE ! ! !

                      Just go to a local carpet sales business and ask them !

                      Dave Fitch



                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ez2cDave@aol.com
                      In a message dated 5/30/2007 4:30:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, baume_fotoarte@yahoo.com writes: how would you go about mounting the backdrop on there?
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 2, 2007
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                        In a message dated 5/30/2007 4:30:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        baume_fotoarte@... writes:

                        how would you go about
                        mounting the backdrop on there?

                        Brooke




                        ******************************************************************************
                        ***********************************

                        Brooke . . .

                        Hmm . . How about using a Staple Gun ?

                        Dave Fitch



                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Fay Kelley
                        ... So what do you use now? -- Cheers, Fay http://www.faykelley.com 928.600.1733
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 3, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Andrea wrote:
                          >You could also go out and get PVC pipe. When I first started I made a background stand from it. I've "grown up" since then tho! LOL

                          So what do you use now?
                          --
                          Cheers, Fay
                          http://www.faykelley.com
                          928.600.1733
                        • Andrea
                          Sorry I haven t responded, been outta town. I think it s 3/4 and they aren t attaced, just rolled up and when I use them I use clamps to keep them up. HTH
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 4, 2007
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                            Sorry I haven't responded, been outta town. I think it's 3/4" and they aren't attaced, just rolled up and when I use them I use clamps to keep them up.

                            HTH
                            Andrea

                            Brooke Buchanan <vbw20@...> wrote:
                            hanging them on bike racks to keep them out of your way is a good
                            idea. how did you attach the b/g to the pvc, with duct tape, or
                            what. what size pvc? my background stand is made with 3/4" pvc.

                            Brooke

                            --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, Andrea <ahdh4@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I still have a couple b/gs rolled up on pvc pipe. They hang from
                            the ceiling with bike racks, I know a little hillbilly-ish but they
                            are out of my way when I don't need them. LOL
                            >
                            > I have PSCS2 and started with Elements 3, if you can get away
                            with working with it I say stick with it until you can afford to go
                            higher. I wouldn't spend the money on upgrades until your ready for
                            CS2 or even 3.
                            >
                            > Good luck
                            > Andrea
                            >
                            > Brooke Buchanan <vbw20@...> wrote:
                            > that's what my background stand is made out of. my
                            husband just
                            > finished it last weekend. he made it so i could change the
                            > dimensions a couple of different ways. i was mainly just looking
                            for
                            > a way to roll my backdrops instead of folding them because folding
                            > causes creases and wrinkles. i've managed to hide the wrinkles in
                            > photoshop for black backgrounds and white backgrounds, but i
                            haven't
                            > shot anything on another color to see about editing those in
                            > photoshop yet and wondered if it would be a pain. if not, then i
                            > won't worry so much about it.
                            >
                            > i have a book about photoshop that i've been working with, and have
                            > pretty much been through the whole thing, but there are still a lot
                            > of features on there that i have no clue what they do and the book
                            > doesn't touch on everything. i'm wondering if i should get another
                            > book besides just depending on the one. i am currently using
                            > photoshop elements 4.0 and have been thinking about upgrading to
                            > elements 5.0 (i can not afford cs2 right now), but elements 4 seems
                            > to be serving my purposes for the time being, so i will probably
                            wait
                            > a little bit.
                            >
                            > --- In photographic-techniques@yahoogroups.com, Andrea <ahdh4@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > You could also go out and get PVC pipe. When I first started I
                            > made a background stand from it. I've "grown up" since then tho! LOL
                            > >
                            > > HTH
                            > > Andrea
                            > >
                            > > Greg Vincent <gvincent@> wrote:
                            > > Hi Brooke,
                            > >
                            > > Find a photographer/studio that uses the large paper backdrops
                            and
                            > see if they have an old core laying around. You might also try a
                            top
                            > line photo store that stock the rolls as they might have something
                            > too.
                            > >
                            > > Good old duck tape or gaffers tape should do. You want somewthing
                            > to hold, yet break away if someone puts too much pressure on the
                            > backdrop "when" that happens.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > >
                            > > Greg
                            > >
                            > > > From: "Brooke Buchanan" <vbw20@>
                            > > > i have been looking at a white vinyl backdrop, but the company
                            > says
                            > > > they ship it folded and suggests mounting it on an empty paper
                            > core.
                            > > > where would you get an empty paper core and how would you go
                            > about
                            > > > mounting the backdrop on there?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Andrea Honse
                            > > www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
                            > > http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/
                            > >
                            > > www.myspace.com/andreahonse
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Andrea Honse
                            > www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
                            > http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/
                            >
                            > www.myspace.com/andreahonse
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >






                            Andrea Honse
                            www.reflectionsbyandrea.com
                            http://andrea3h.blogspot.com/

                            www.myspace.com/andreahonse






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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