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Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

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  • Doug Marmion
    A Ghearoid, a chairde, (did I get that greeting right?) A bit of background on Indo-European... Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 24, 2013
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      A Ghearoid, a chairde,

      (did I get that greeting right?)


      A bit of background on Indo-European...

      Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in the steppes north of the Black Sea, which we call 'proto-Indo-European'.  Over time this language split into a set of daughter languages that themselves split up over the millennia to produce the many subgroups of languages that comprise the Indo-European language family.

      Wikipedia has a good article on Indo-European which includes a list of the various subgroups (one of which is, of course, Celtic) here:
       


      cheers,
      Doug


      On 23/02/2013, at 2:19 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

       

      A chairde,

       

      Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge, Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha, forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl.   Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !

       

      Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.   Please share your knowledge !

       

      LGDG, - G

       

       

       




    • selkiesinger@rocketmail.com
      Here s what my research yielded. Any thoughts on the matter? (sources are listed below). Irish and her sister languages Welsh and Breton are some of the
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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        Here's what my research yielded. Any thoughts on the matter? (sources are listed below).

        Irish and "her sister languages Welsh and Breton" are some of the oldest in Europe.The Celts arrived in Ireland around 500BC and like all invading people affected the language and culture of the land they entered. Prior to this arrival there were diverse languages and tribes that surely influenced the evolution of Celtic language/Gaelic/Irish. Subsequent invasions by the Vikings and French left impressions on the language and some remnants can be found today.
        The oldest written word in Ireland is Ogham thought to be incepted in the 1st century BC. There is a school of thought that it was created by Druids, scholars and/or freedom fighters to have a way to communicate in "opposition to the authorities of Roman Britain".
        The other theory is that it was incepted by early Christian communities that wanted a way to write inscriptions and the Latin alphabet didn't represent the right kind of sounds.


        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Irish_literature
        http://www.omniglot.com/writing/irish.htm
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
        http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/culture/talk/irishguide/histir.shtm

        --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com, Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...> wrote:
        >
        > A Ghearoid, a chairde,
        >
        > (did I get that greeting right?)
        >
        >
        > A bit of background on Indo-European...
        >
        > Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in the steppes north of the Black Sea, which we call 'proto-Indo-European'. Over time this language split into a set of daughter languages that themselves split up over the millennia to produce the many subgroups of languages that comprise the Indo-European language family.
        >
        > Wikipedia has a good article on Indo-European which includes a list of the various subgroups (one of which is, of course, Celtic) here:
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages
        >
        >
        > cheers,
        > Doug
        >
        >
        > On 23/02/2013, at 2:19 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > A chairde,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge, Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha, forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl. Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc. Please share your knowledge !
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > LGDG, - G
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Jerry Kelly
        Go raibh maith agat, a chara.  Aon smaointe air seo, a chairde? Thank you, a chara.  Any thoughts on this, O friends? ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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          Go raibh maith agat, a chara.  Aon smaointe air seo, a chairde?
           
          Thank you, a chara.  Any thoughts on this, O friends?


          From: "selkiesinger@..." <selkiesinger@...>
          To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 10:11:47 AM
          Subject: [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish

           

          Here's what my research yielded. Any thoughts on the matter? (sources are listed below).

          Irish and "her sister languages Welsh and Breton" are some of the oldest in Europe.The Celts arrived in Ireland around 500BC and like all invading people affected the language and culture of the land they entered. Prior to this arrival there were diverse languages and tribes that surely influenced the evolution of Celtic language/Gaelic/Irish. Subsequent invasions by the Vikings and French left impressions on the language and some remnants can be found today.
          The oldest written word in Ireland is Ogham thought to be incepted in the 1st century BC. There is a school of thought that it was created by Druids, scholars and/or freedom fighters to have a way to communicate in "opposition to the authorities of Roman Britain".
          The other theory is that it was incepted by early Christian communities that wanted a way to write inscriptions and the Latin alphabet didn't represent the right kind of sounds.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Irish_literature
          http://www.omniglot.com/writing/irish.htm
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
          http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/culture/talk/irishguide/histir.shtm

          --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com, Doug Marmion wrote:
          >
          > A Ghearoid, a chairde,
          >
          > (did I get that greeting right?)
          >
          >
          > A bit of background on Indo-European...
          >
          > Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in the steppes north of the Black Sea, which we call 'proto-Indo-European'. Over time this language split into a set of daughter languages that themselves split up over the millennia to produce the many subgroups of languages that comprise the Indo-European language family.
          >
          > Wikipedia has a good article on Indo-European which includes a list of the various subgroups (one of which is, of course, Celtic) here:
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages
          >
          >
          > cheers,
          > Doug
          >
          >
          > On 23/02/2013, at 2:19 PM, Jerry Kelly wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > A chairde,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge, Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha, forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl. Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc. Please share your knowledge !
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > LGDG, - G
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >

        • Michael Thompson
          Irish is the native language in heaven, where the angels speak it in conversation with God. Remember that line in Braveheart where the Irishman tells Mel
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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            Irish is the native language in heaven, where the angels speak it in conversation with God. Remember that line in Braveheart where the Irishman tells Mel Gibson that God created the Irish so that he could have a good conversation with someone? That's proof that Irish is the heavenly language. And if you want more, just listen to this song by John Gary http://youtu.be/ACpt3Q6Ke34

            Ireland itself was originally a part of heaven that fell to earth. This accounts for its great beauty and is also the reason the Irish grew up speaking the language of the angels. And that's the origin of the Irish language.

            2013/2/22 Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...>

            Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.   Please share your knowledge !
          • Jerry Kelly
            Go raibh maith agat, a Mhichil!  /  Thank you, Michael! ________________________________ From: Michael Thompson To:
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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              Go raibh maith agat, a Mhichil!  /  Thank you, Michael!


              From: Michael Thompson <michael@...>
              To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 11:26:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

               

              Irish is the native language in heaven, where the angels speak it in conversation with God. Remember that line in Braveheart where the Irishman tells Mel Gibson that God created the Irish so that he could have a good conversation with someone? That's proof that Irish is the heavenly language. And if you want more, just listen to this song by John Gary http://youtu.be/ACpt3Q6Ke34


              Ireland itself was originally a part of heaven that fell to earth. This accounts for its great beauty and is also the reason the Irish grew up speaking the language of the angels. And that's the origin of the Irish language.

              2013/2/22 Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...>

              Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.   Please share your knowledge !
            • Thorn Books
              I think you will find that Ogham predates Christianity by a bit but was quickly Christianized. (Edred Thorsson, The Book of Ogham , St Paul, 1994). Irish has
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                I think you will find that Ogham predates Christianity by a bit but was
                quickly Christianized. (Edred Thorsson, 'The Book of Ogham", St Paul, 1994).

                Irish has rightly been called the second oldest literary language in
                Europe ; only Greek is older.

                This is a fascinating thread. Thanks to all for your contributions.

                Jim Owens


                On 2/27/2013 9:18 AM, Jerry Kelly wrote:
                > Go raibh maith agat, a chara. Aon smaointe air seo, a chairde?
                > Thank you, a chara. Any thoughts on this, O friends?
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > *From:* "selkiesinger@..." <selkiesinger@...>
                > *To:* philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                > *Sent:* Wed, February 27, 2013 10:11:47 AM
                > *Subject:* [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish
                >
                > Here's what my research yielded. Any thoughts on the matter? (sources
                > are listed below).
                >
                > Irish and "her sister languages Welsh and Breton" are some of the
                > oldest in Europe.The Celts arrived in Ireland around 500BC and like
                > all invading people affected the language and culture of the land they
                > entered. Prior to this arrival there were diverse languages and tribes
                > that surely influenced the evolution of Celtic language/Gaelic/Irish.
                > Subsequent invasions by the Vikings and French left impressions on the
                > language and some remnants can be found today.
                > The oldest written word in Ireland is Ogham thought to be incepted in
                > the 1st century BC. There is a school of thought that it was created
                > by Druids, scholars and/or freedom fighters to have a way to
                > communicate in "opposition to the authorities of Roman Britain".
                > The other theory is that it was incepted by early Christian
                > communities that wanted a way to write inscriptions and the Latin
                > alphabet didn't represent the right kind of sounds.
                >
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Irish_literature
                > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/irish.htm
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
                > http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/culture/talk/irishguide/histir.shtm
                >
                > --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:philostartingtolearn%40yahoogroups.com>, Doug Marmion wrote:
                > >
                > > A Ghearoid, a chairde,
                > >
                > > (did I get that greeting right?)
                > >
                > >
                > > A bit of background on Indo-European...
                > >
                > > Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in the
                > steppes north of the Black Sea, which we call 'proto-Indo-European'.
                > Over time this language split into a set of daughter languages that
                > themselves split up over the millennia to produce the many subgroups
                > of languages that comprise the Indo-European language family.
                > >
                > > Wikipedia has a good article on Indo-European which includes a list
                > of the various subgroups (one of which is, of course, Celtic) here:
                > >
                > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages
                > >
                > >
                > > cheers,
                > > Doug
                > >
                > >
                > > On 23/02/2013, at 2:19 PM, Jerry Kelly wrote:
                > >
                > > >
                > > > A chairde,
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na
                > Gaeilge, Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha
                > Indó-eorpacha, forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine
                > Ceilteach?, 7rl. Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language
                > (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European
                > languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?,
                > etc. Please share your knowledge !
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > LGDG, - G
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
              • Jerry Kelly
                Go raibh maith agat, a Dhubhghlais.  I forgot to answer your question.  We say A chara / O friend to one person.  A chairde is the plural.  So A
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                  Go raibh maith agat, a Dhubhghlais.  I forgot to answer your question.  We say "A chara / O friend" to one person.  "A chairde" is the plural.  So "A Ghearo/id a chara" is perfect for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id" and "A Ghearo/id agus a Dhughbhlais a chairde" is used for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id and Dubhghlas". 

                   

                  Dubhghlas = nominative = when signing your name or subject or sentence

                  Dhubhghlais = genitive = 'of Dubhghlas'

                  A Dhubhghlais = vocative - 'O Dubhghlas'
                   
                  LGDG, - G



                  From: Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...>
                  To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, February 24, 2013 5:43:25 AM
                  Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                   

                  A Ghearoid, a chairde,

                  (did I get that greeting right?)


                  A bit of background on Indo-European...

                  Sometime before 6,000 years ago there was a language spoken in the steppes north of the Black Sea, which we call 'proto-Indo-European'.  Over time this language split into a set of daughter languages that themselves split up over the millennia to produce the many subgroups of languages that comprise the Indo-European language family.

                  Wikipedia has a good article on Indo-European which includes a list of the various subgroups (one of which is, of course, Celtic) here:
                   


                  cheers,
                  Doug


                  On 23/02/2013, at 2:19 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                   

                  A chairde,

                   

                  Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge, Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha, forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl.   Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !

                   

                  Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.   Please share your knowledge !

                   

                  LGDG, - G

                   

                   

                   




                • Michael Thompson
                  A Gearóid a chara, I have noticed that messages with accent marks often come through fine, and others are garbled along the way. But I ve noticed recently
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                    A Gearóid a chara,

                    I have noticed that messages with accent marks often come through
                    fine, and others are garbled along the way. But I've noticed recently
                    that some words come through with a slash in them, rather than an
                    accent mark, such as a fada. Is this something that you do in order to
                    prevent the garbling, or is it a feature of a garbled word that the
                    fada has been converted to a slash?

                    On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > "A Ghearo/id a chara" is perfect for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id" and "A Ghearo/id agus a Dhughbhlais a chairde" is used for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id and Dubhghlas".
                  • Jerry Kelly
                    Maith an cheist, a Mhi/chil.    Good question, Michael.   Our computers here at work often go through old servers on the internet which can t handle the
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                      Maith an cheist, a Mhi/chil.    Good question, Michael.

                       

                      Our computers here at work often go through old servers on the internet which can't handle the accent marks.  So, when I'm here at work, I'll often use the slash mark after a vowel to indicate that the vowel should have a fada on it.

                       

                      LGDG, - G





                      From: Michael Thompson <michael@...>
                      To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 2:32:14 PM
                      Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                       

                      A Gearóid a chara,

                      I have noticed that messages with accent marks often come through
                      fine, and others are garbled along the way. But I've noticed recently
                      that some words come through with a slash in them, rather than an
                      accent mark, such as a fada. Is this something that you do in order to
                      prevent the garbling, or is it a feature of a garbled word that the
                      fada has been converted to a slash?

                      On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Jerry Kelly jerrykelly@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "A Ghearo/id a chara" is perfect for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id" and "A Ghearo/id agus a Dhughbhlais a chairde" is used for the equivalent of "Dear Gearo/id and Dubhghlas".

                    • Jerry Kelly
                      A chairde (O friends), So, let s see.  I think our discussion has identified the following: * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language; * Anybody
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                        A chairde (O friends),
                         
                        So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                         
                        * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                         
                        * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                         
                        * Irish is a Celtic language;
                         
                        * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                         
                        * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                         
                        * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                         
                        Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                         
                        LGDG, - G 
                      • Doug Marmion
                        A Ghearóid agus a chairde, (ie Gerry and friends , right?) At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                          A Ghearóid agus a chairde, 

                          (ie 'Gerry and friends', right?)

                          At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain and Ireland they covered much of modern Spain and central Europe, and were as far east as modern Turkey (the biblical Galatians that St Póil wrote to). A widespread and wandering lot!

                          -Dubhghlas



                          On 28/02/2013, at 6:55 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                           

                          A chairde (O friends),
                           
                          So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                           
                          * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                           
                          * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                           
                          * Irish is a Celtic language;
                           
                          * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                           
                          * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                           
                          * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                           
                          Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                           
                          LGDG, - G 



                        • Thea Mcginnis
                          So you are all telling me that Gaelic wasn t invented by the fairies? huh. t ... From: Doug Marmion To: philostartingtolearn
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                            So you are all telling me that Gaelic wasn't invented by the fairies? huh.  t
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...>
                            To: philostartingtolearn <philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:12 pm
                            Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                             
                            A Ghearóid agus a chairde, 

                            (ie 'Gerry and friends', right?)

                            At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain and Ireland they covered much of modern Spain and central Europe, and were as far east as modern Turkey (the biblical Galatians that St Póil wrote to). A widespread and wandering lot!

                            -Dubhghlas



                            On 28/02/2013, at 6:55 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                             

                            A chairde (O friends),
                             
                            So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                             
                            * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                             
                            * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                             
                            * Irish is a Celtic language;
                             
                            * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                             
                            * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                             
                            * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                             
                            Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                             
                            LGDG, - G 



                          • Thea Mcginnis
                            here s a link to the Celtic Guide - there a bit about Scotland as well as Ireland, but each edition has quite about Celtic history.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                              here's a link to the Celtic Guide - there a bit about Scotland as well as Ireland, but each edition has quite about Celtic history.
                              http://www.thecelticguide.com/2013.html - you can click the pdfs for each edition to read on your computer.  t
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...>
                              To: philostartingtolearn <philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:12 pm
                              Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                               
                              A Ghearóid agus a chairde, 

                              (ie 'Gerry and friends', right?)

                              At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain and Ireland they covered much of modern Spain and central Europe, and were as far east as modern Turkey (the biblical Galatians that St Póil wrote to). A widespread and wandering lot!

                              -Dubhghlas



                              On 28/02/2013, at 6:55 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                               

                              A chairde (O friends),
                               
                              So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                               
                              * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                               
                              * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                               
                              * Irish is a Celtic language;
                               
                              * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                               
                              * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                               
                              * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                               
                              Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                               
                              LGDG, - G 



                            • Jerry Kelly
                              A Thea a chara / Hi Thea,   Go raibh maith agat.  /  Thank you.   I see that some of the material in the Celtic Guide is accurate.  Quite a bit would not
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 27, 2013
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                                A Thea a chara / Hi Thea,

                                 

                                Go raibh maith agat.  /  Thank you.

                                 

                                I see that some of the material in the Celtic Guide is accurate.  Quite a bit would not be accepted by any modern scholars.  A good reminder to us to be careful of what we find on the internet.

                                 

                                Le gach dea-ghui/

                                Best,

                                Gearo/id

                                Jerry





                                From: Thea Mcginnis <humblebeewriter@...>
                                To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 6:05:42 PM
                                Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                                 

                                here's a link to the Celtic Guide - there a bit about Scotland as well as Ireland, but each edition has quite about Celtic history.
                                http://www.thecelticguide.com/2013.html - you can click the pdfs for each edition to read on your computer.  t
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...>
                                To: philostartingtolearn <philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 5:12 pm
                                Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                                 
                                A Ghearóid agus a chairde, 

                                (ie 'Gerry and friends', right?)

                                At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain and Ireland they covered much of modern Spain and central Europe, and were as far east as modern Turkey (the biblical Galatians that St Póil wrote to). A widespread and wandering lot!

                                -Dubhghlas



                                On 28/02/2013, at 6:55 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                                 

                                A chairde (O friends),
                                 
                                So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                                 
                                * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                                 
                                * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                                 
                                * Irish is a Celtic language;
                                 
                                * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                                 
                                * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                                 
                                * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                                 
                                Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                                 
                                LGDG, - G 



                              • Michael Thompson
                                I thought that might be the case, but I wanted to ask to make sure. GRMH.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                                  I thought that might be the case, but I wanted to ask to make sure. GRMH.

                                  On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:


                                  Maith an cheist, a Mhi/chil.    Good question, Michael.

                                   

                                  Our computers here at work often go through old servers on the internet which can't handle the accent marks.  So, when I'm here at work, I'll often use the slash mark after a vowel to indicate that the vowel should have a fada on it.

                                   

                                  LGDG, - G

                                • Jerry Kelly
                                  Go raibh maith agat, a Dhubhghlais. And you are right about A Ghearo/id agus a chairde .   So, if we list the places where Celts were living at about 300
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                                    Go raibh maith agat, a Dhubhghlais. And you are right about "A Ghearo/id agus a chairde".

                                     

                                    So, if we list the places where Celts were living at about 300 B.C., we come up with all or part of the places now called Ireland, Britain, the Isle of Man, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Germany (a Celtic name meaning 'True Men'), Switzerland, northern Italy (Cisalpine Gaul), Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and Turkey.  There are plenty of blond Turks and Sicilians.  Ever wonder why?  Well, you already have part of the answer for Turkey.  As for Sicily, yes, the Normans did at one point rule Sicily, but we also know that Hannibal dropped off about 25,000 of his Celtic allies when he was fighting Rome but never made it back to pick them up.  So that's part of the answer, too. 

                                     

                                    To put all this another way, hundreds of millions of today's Europeans and Turks descend from Celts, which makes Irish and the Celts important parts of Europe's history and culture.

                                     

                                    As for our linguistic heritage, Dubhghlas can tell us more and better about it, but consider this:

                                     

                                    French is Frankish German on top of Latin on top of Gaulish, a Celtic language.  Example:  horse = cheval in French and capall in Irish.  (Horses were hugely important as sacred animals in Celtic culture so we might expect the Celtic word to survive in a descendant language.)

                                     

                                    Spanish and Portuguese are Visigothic German (if I remember correctly) on top of Latin on top of Celt-Iberian, a Celtic language regularly noted as very close to Archaic Irish.  Example:  horse = caballo in Spanish and capall in Irish.  If we let our Irish capall resume its pre-5th century archaic Indo-European ending, we go back to capallos in Irish and caballo in Spanish.  How about that! 

                                     

                                    Dubhghlas and others may have other, better examples.  Don't hesitate.

                                     

                                    LGDG,

                                    Gearo/id

                                     

                                     



                                    From: Doug Marmion <doug.marmion@...>
                                    To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wed, February 27, 2013 5:12:43 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] origin of Irish

                                     

                                    A Ghearóid agus a chairde, 


                                    (ie 'Gerry and friends', right?)

                                    At around 300 BC there were Celtic-speaking peoples scattered across Europe. As well as Britain and Ireland they covered much of modern Spain and central Europe, and were as far east as modern Turkey (the biblical Galatians that St Póil wrote to). A widespread and wandering lot!

                                    -Dubhghlas



                                    On 28/02/2013, at 6:55 AM, Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    A chairde (O friends),
                                     
                                    So, let's see.  I think our discussion has identified the following:
                                     
                                    * A Celt is a person who speaks a Celtic language;
                                     
                                    * Anybody can become a Celt by learning to speak a Celtic language;
                                     
                                    * Irish is a Celtic language;
                                     
                                    * The Celtic language group is a branch of the Indo-European language group;
                                     
                                    * The surviving Celtic languages are Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton; and
                                     
                                    * Anybody who speaks one of those languages is a Celt.
                                     
                                    Question:  Who were Celts (i.e., where were Celts living) at about 300 B.C.?
                                     
                                    LGDG, - G 



                                  • Barbara
                                    Hi All, I have just joined the group and I am very excited to have a new resource to help in my Irish learning. I am still a beginner. Tá mé ag foghlaim
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 2, 2013
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                                      Hi All,

                                      I have just joined the group and I am very excited to have a new resource to help in my Irish learning. I am still a beginner.

                                      Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge le BBC.

                                      I realize I am a little late to this party, but I wanted to contribute a link to my favourite history of Irish.

                                      "Scéal na Gaeilge" from TG4.
                                      http://www.tg4.ie/en/player/tg4-player.html

                                      You will see the pic for the program on the right of the main page.
                                      The program is in two parts, each with 3 sections.

                                      It's in Irish with English sub-titles.
                                      So, it's like a double treat. I get the history, and I also get to listen and try to understand some of the Irish, which is feasible with the English translation.
                                      It's really well-done, with lots of animation, and very fun!
                                      I've watched the whole thing, but I've also re-watched the first part three times so far, to try to match up the Irish with the English.
                                      So, maybe others here will enjoy that too.

                                      Hope this isn't redundant. Enjoy!!

                                      Slán!

                                      Barbara

                                      --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Kelly" <jerrykelly@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > A chairde,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge,
                                      > Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha,
                                      > forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl.
                                      > Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language
                                      > (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European
                                      > languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.
                                      > Please share your knowledge !
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > LGDG, - G
                                      >
                                    • Jerry Kelly
                                      Go raibh maith agat, a Bhairbre! ... From: Barbara Subject: [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish To:
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 2, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Go raibh maith agat, a Bhairbre!


                                        --- On Tue, 4/2/13, Barbara <dooley.barb@...> wrote:

                                        From: Barbara <dooley.barb@...>
                                        Subject: [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish
                                        To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 5:07 PM

                                         
                                        Hi All,

                                        I have just joined the group and I am very excited to have a new resource to help in my Irish learning. I am still a beginner.

                                        Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge le BBC.

                                        I realize I am a little late to this party, but I wanted to contribute a link to my favourite history of Irish.

                                        "Scéal na Gaeilge" from TG4.
                                        http://www.tg4.ie/en/player/tg4-player.html

                                        You will see the pic for the program on the right of the main page.
                                        The program is in two parts, each with 3 sections.

                                        It's in Irish with English sub-titles.
                                        So, it's like a double treat. I get the history, and I also get to listen and try to understand some of the Irish, which is feasible with the English translation.
                                        It's really well-done, with lots of animation, and very fun!
                                        I've watched the whole thing, but I've also re-watched the first part three times so far, to try to match up the Irish with the English.
                                        So, maybe others here will enjoy that too.

                                        Hope this isn't redundant. Enjoy!!

                                        Slán!

                                        Barbara

                                        --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Kelly" <jerrykelly@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > A chairde,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge,
                                        > Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha,
                                        > forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl.
                                        > Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language
                                        > (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European
                                        > languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.
                                        > Please share your knowledge !
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > LGDG, - G
                                        >

                                      • Thea Mcginnis
                                        Go raibh maith agat, a chara. T ea ... From: Jerry Kelly To: philostartingtolearn Sent: Tue, Apr
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Apr 2, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                           Go raibh maith agat, a chara.  T'ea
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Jerry Kelly <jerrykelly@...>
                                          To: philostartingtolearn <philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 6:18 pm
                                          Subject: Re: [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish

                                           
                                          Go raibh maith agat, a Bhairbre!


                                          --- On Tue, 4/2/13, Barbara <dooley.barb@...> wrote:

                                          From: Barbara <dooley.barb@...>
                                          Subject: [philostartingtolearn] Re: origin of Irish
                                          To: philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 5:07 PM

                                           
                                          Hi All,

                                          I have just joined the group and I am very excited to have a new resource to help in my Irish learning. I am still a beginner.

                                          Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge le BBC.

                                          I realize I am a little late to this party, but I wanted to contribute a link to my favourite history of Irish.

                                          "Scéal na Gaeilge" from TG4.
                                          http://www.tg4.ie/en/player/tg4-player.html

                                          You will see the pic for the program on the right of the main page.
                                          The program is in two parts, each with 3 sections.

                                          It's in Irish with English sub-titles.
                                          So, it's like a double treat. I get the history, and I also get to listen and try to understand some of the Irish, which is feasible with the English translation.
                                          It's really well-done, with lots of animation, and very fun!
                                          I've watched the whole thing, but I've also re-watched the first part three times so far, to try to match up the Irish with the English.
                                          So, maybe others here will enjoy that too.

                                          Hope this isn't redundant. Enjoy!!

                                          Slán!

                                          Barbara

                                          --- In philostartingtolearn@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Kelly" <jerrykelly@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > A chairde,
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Anois, an féidir libhse go léir insint dúinn faoi bhun-fhoinse na Gaeilge,
                                          > Q-Ceiltis, P-Ceiltis, bhun-fhoinse na Ceiltis, na teangacha Indó-eorpacha,
                                          > forleathnú na gCeilteach thar an nEoraip, cad é duine Ceilteach?, 7rl.
                                          > Roinn bhur bhfaisnéis, le bhur dtoil !
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Now, can all of you tell us about the origin of the Irish Language
                                          > (Gaeilge), Q-Celtic, P-Celtic, the origin of Celtic, the Indo-European
                                          > languages, the spread of the Celts across Europe, what is a Celt?, etc.
                                          > Please share your knowledge !
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > LGDG, - G
                                          >

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