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Re: [pfaf] Re: [PermacultureWoodlands] WHY WE NEED WILD LAND

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  • Andy Reed
    Does anybody know anyone with investments interest in a sustainable wild berry business that encourages economic development for rural aboriginal first nations
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 1997
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      Does anybody know anyone with investments interest in a sustainable wild berry business that encourages economic development for rural aboriginal first nations peoples?  I have it all just waiting to proceed, the community, willing bodies, etc.  It would be a dream come true.
      Andrew Reed, B.S.
      "there is no way to peace, peace is the way"
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:14 PM
      Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: [PermacultureWoodlands] WHY WE NEED WILD LAND

      In the Willamette River valley where I live, many berries grow well.  We grow native blackberries, salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries.  We grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your region, as well as boysenberries, currants, gooseberries. 
      We actually have a huge problem with non-native blackberries being invasive and causing erosion and removing diversity around water bodies-it is just one of the things affecting our loss of salmon habitat. 
      But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches, plums, cherries, some nuts, like walnuts and filberts, and much more.  Even some of the hardier citrus will grow here.  This is a very fertile area with a mild climate.  A nursery that specializes in unusual edibles nearby may help illustrate what we can grow.   
      Here is the nursery's interesting website:  http://www.onegreenworld.com/
      Another similar and terrific nursery north of us in the state of Washington is  http://www.raintreenursery.com/
      Hope you find this interesting,
      Diana
       
      Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
      WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get / pick,
      oregon is from natures side very rich in species compared to Norway /
      Scandianvia...

      Geir Flatabø

      Diana Santry skrev:

      >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
      >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
      >neighborhood.  I don't have much more than a little
      >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
      >weeds! that the pollinators love!  My neighbors don't
      >know much of what to think, because it certainly
      >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
      >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
      > I hope this takes over the town.  Feels so good!
      >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
      >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
      >world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
      >this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
      >people with a future in mind!
      >Diana
      >
      >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:
      >

      >
      >>hi
      >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
      >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
      >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
      >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
      >>are many along the line who know not what any of it
      >>is worth,
      >>martin
      >>
      >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
      >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
      >>show you what has
      >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
      >>8 years we have
      >>lived here.  I don't mow it..well most of it. 
      >>
      >>It is also regenerating.  Each year I see new weeds
      >>replace the
      >>varieties that were there the year before..and
      >>sometimes longer. 
      >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
      >>that have grown
      >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
      >>transplanted
      >>trees from nurseries all of my life.  One hackberry
      >>tree was as tall
      >>as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
      >>from it) after 3
      >>years! 
      >>
      >>Wildflowers also seem to change out.  It has been so
      >>interesting to
      >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
      >>eccentric, to say
      >>the least, and crazy maybe more often. 
      >>
      >>I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
      >>them roll their eyes
      >>too often. 
      >>
      >>When we moved here this was basically dead soil.  It
      >>had been
      >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
      >>I used to get
      >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
      >>soil...and my dogs
      >>lost hair from laying on it. 
      >>
      >>It has taught me so much more than I could ever
      >>learn in a book, even
      >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
      >>
      >>Gloria, Texas USA
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>---------------------------------
      >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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      >>
      >>    Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
      >> 
      >>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
      >>to:
      >> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >> 
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      >>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >>
      >>
      >>---------------------------------
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      >>   
      >>
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    • Andy Reed
      I don t know if it would work where you live, but in the midwest US we have an invincible scourge that takes over any open space called mulitflora rose, also
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 1997
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        I don't know if it would work where you live, but in the midwest US we have an invincible scourge that takes over any open space called mulitflora rose, also non-native.  This is a major problem but a major breakthrough was realized when we figured out goats like to eat it, might be ridiculous, off the mark, but have you tried letting goats eat the invasive blackberry?
        Andrew Reed, B.S.
        "there is no way to peace, peace is the way"
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: [PermacultureWoodlands] WHY WE NEED WILD LAND

        In the Willamette River valley where I live, many berries grow well.  We grow native blackberries, salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries.  We grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your region, as well as boysenberries, currants, gooseberries. 
        We actually have a huge problem with non-native blackberries being invasive and causing erosion and removing diversity around water bodies-it is just one of the things affecting our loss of salmon habitat. 
        But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches, plums, cherries, some nuts, like walnuts and filberts, and much more.  Even some of the hardier citrus will grow here.  This is a very fertile area with a mild climate.  A nursery that specializes in unusual edibles nearby may help illustrate what we can grow.   
        Here is the nursery's interesting website:  http://www.onegreenworld.com/
        Another similar and terrific nursery north of us in the state of Washington is  http://www.raintreenursery.com/
        Hope you find this interesting,
        Diana
         
        Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
        WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get / pick,
        oregon is from natures side very rich in species compared to Norway /
        Scandianvia...

        Geir Flatabø

        Diana Santry skrev:

        >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
        >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
        >neighborhood.  I don't have much more than a little
        >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
        >weeds! that the pollinators love!  My neighbors don't
        >know much of what to think, because it certainly
        >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
        >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
        > I hope this takes over the town.  Feels so good!
        >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
        >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
        >world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
        >this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
        >people with a future in mind!
        >Diana
        >
        >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:
        >

        >
        >>hi
        >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
        >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
        >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
        >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
        >>are many along the line who know not what any of it
        >>is worth,
        >>martin
        >>
        >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
        >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
        >>show you what has
        >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
        >>8 years we have
        >>lived here.  I don't mow it..well most of it. 
        >>
        >>It is also regenerating.  Each year I see new weeds
        >>replace the
        >>varieties that were there the year before..and
        >>sometimes longer. 
        >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
        >>that have grown
        >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
        >>transplanted
        >>trees from nurseries all of my life.  One hackberry
        >>tree was as tall
        >>as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
        >>from it) after 3
        >>years! 
        >>
        >>Wildflowers also seem to change out.  It has been so
        >>interesting to
        >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
        >>eccentric, to say
        >>the least, and crazy maybe more often. 
        >>
        >>I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
        >>them roll their eyes
        >>too often. 
        >>
        >>When we moved here this was basically dead soil.  It
        >>had been
        >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
        >>I used to get
        >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
        >>soil...and my dogs
        >>lost hair from laying on it. 
        >>
        >>It has taught me so much more than I could ever
        >>learn in a book, even
        >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
        >>
        >>Gloria, Texas USA
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>---------------------------------
        >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >>
        >>
        >>    Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
        >> 
        >>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
        >>to:
        >> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >> 
        >>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
        >>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >>
        >>
        >>---------------------------------
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Send instant messages to your online friends
        >>http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
        >>   
        >>
        >
        >
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      • Richard Morris
        ... Marks Fishers posts on wilderness have been a real inspiration to me and have given me a new way of thinking about Plants For A Future s site in Devon. The
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 25, 2005
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          Mark Fisher wrote:
          > WHY WE NEED WILD LAND
          >
          > Sustainable agriculture is a much bandied-about phrase, no less than by
          > Jules Pretty, a significant advocate of emerging people and
          > community-based agricultural systems around the world. So I wonder why
          > he felt it necessary to take a pop at wilderness in his latest book (see
          > Agri-culture: Reconnecting People, Land and Nature, 2002)? Is the planet
          > only for people? Where is the balance between the needs of one dominant
          > species and the needs of all the others?
          >
          Marks Fishers posts on wilderness have been a real inspiration to me and
          have given me a new way of thinking about Plants For A Future's site in
          Devon.

          The site is 84 acres of undulating land in North Devon, we bought the
          land eight years ago when it was in a very poor state with many fields
          completely bare, even though they had been lying fallow for two years
          previously. Now the most site has been allowed to regenerate naturally
          and is a vibrant example of nature taking its own course.

          The pattern of regenerating is intriguing. Rather than seeing the whole
          site develop in the same way with the same dominant vegetation we have
          seen a mosaic of different habitats and plant communities emerge. Some
          parts have gorse as the dominant vegetation, others are predominantly
          goat willow, others are bramble, and other wetter parts are heavy with
          reeds. Remarkable much of the site has remained as grassland with little
          colonization by goat willow, gorse or bramble.

          Beneath the dominant vegetation we see a rich variety of wild flowers
          and other plants. In one part over 30 species of wild flower have
          observed. In another place there is a thriving community of orchids
          (Common Spotted Orchid, Dactylorhiza fuchii).

          Young oak trees have also been observed over much of the site giving a
          clue to how the site might develop in years to come. Eight years is only
          a brief period for regeneration with colonization by pioneer species
          (goat willow, gorse and bramble are classic pioneers). As time
          progresses we will observe how the regeneration progresses, as it tend
          towards climax vegetation where oaks and other broad leaf trees take over.

          There is also a rich variety of wildlife on site. Grass snakes have been
          spotted near an abandoned pile of compost, and last year saw a the
          grassland areas full of six spot burnet moths with a distinctive red and
          black markings. Voles, dormice, foxes, badgers, moles and lizards have
          all been spotted as well as 46 different types of birds and 20 species
          of butterflys and moths (probably a very low estimate). Four different
          species of deer are common visitors to the site, a big problem to the
          trees we've planted but not to the wild lands.

          Thinking about the site as wilderness has given me a very different view
          to the site. Before the gorse, goat willow and bramble were all problems
          needing a lot of labor to manage. But now they are not problems, they
          keep each other in check and much grows beneath. Other invasive species
          such as Himalayan balsam are also present but these are contained by the
          mosaic of habitats. To follow the adage "A weed is only a plant where
          you don't want it to be" at Blagdon nothing is a weed.

          There are conflicts between ideas of wilderness and those of managing
          land for wildlife. Parts of our site are culm grassland and from a
          traditional wildlife perspective we should impose a traditional
          management regime with a mix of light grazing and cutting every four
          years. One can raise questions as to whether this sort of management is
          really sustainable as it requires constant attention. If the management
          stops for a period then the land will regenerate in a different pattern.
          True unmanaged wilderness will take care of itself and may provide a
          stronger habitat as we beginning to see the effects of climate change.

          An illustreaded version of this article can be found at
          http://www.pfaf.org/devon/wilderness.php
          with photos showing how the site has regenerated over the past eight years.

          Currently the status of the site is in question, we now have severe
          funding, staffing and orginisational problems facing the site. We are
          considering all options including sale of all or part of the site. See
          http://www.pfaf.org/devon/index.php for details.

          Richard Morris
          --
          Plants for a Future: 7000 useful plants
          Web: http://www.pfaf.org/
          Post: 1 Lerryn View, Lerryn, Lostwithiel, Cornwall, PL22 0QJ
          Tel: 01208 872 963
          Email: webweaver@...
          PFAF electronic mailing list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf
        • Gloria C. Baikauskas
          I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to show you what has happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the 8 years we have lived here. I don t
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 31, 2005
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            I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to show you what has
            happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the 8 years we have
            lived here. I don't mow it..well most of it.

            It is also regenerating. Each year I see new weeds replace the
            varieties that were there the year before..and sometimes longer.
            Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us that have grown
            so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with transplanted
            trees from nurseries all of my life. One hackberry tree was as tall
            as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway from it) after 3
            years!

            Wildflowers also seem to change out. It has been so interesting to
            watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am eccentric, to say
            the least, and crazy maybe more often.

            I have tried to explain it to them...and watched them roll their eyes
            too often.

            When we moved here this was basically dead soil. It had been
            chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered. I used to get
            rashes all over me when I tried working in the soil...and my dogs
            lost hair from laying on it.

            It has taught me so much more than I could ever learn in a book, even
            if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.

            Gloria, Texas USA
          • Martin Naylor
            hi thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant s it changed to an untidy town s competition, at least you
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 31, 2005
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              hi
              thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it changed to an untidy town's competition, at least you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there are many along the line who know not what any of it is worth,
              martin 

              "Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
              I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to show you what has
              happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the 8 years we have
              lived here.  I don't mow it..well most of it. 

              It is also regenerating.  Each year I see new weeds replace the
              varieties that were there the year before..and sometimes longer. 
              Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us that have grown
              so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with transplanted
              trees from nurseries all of my life.  One hackberry tree was as tall
              as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway from it) after 3
              years! 

              Wildflowers also seem to change out.  It has been so interesting to
              watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am eccentric, to say
              the least, and crazy maybe more often. 

              I have tried to explain it to them...and watched them roll their eyes
              too often. 

              When we moved here this was basically dead soil.  It had been
              chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.  I used to get
              rashes all over me when I tried working in the soil...and my dogs
              lost hair from laying on it. 

              It has taught me so much more than I could ever learn in a book, even
              if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.

              Gloria, Texas USA



              Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

            • Diana Santry
              We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a tidy neighborhood. I don t have much more than a little city
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 1, 2005
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                We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
                Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                neighborhood. I don't have much more than a little
                city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
                weeds! that the pollinators love! My neighbors don't
                know much of what to think, because it certainly
                doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
                can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
                I hope this takes over the town. Feels so good!
                Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
                to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
                world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
                this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
                people with a future in mind!
                Diana

                --- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:

                > hi
                > thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
                > a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
                > changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
                > you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
                > are many along the line who know not what any of it
                > is worth,
                > martin
                >
                > "Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
                > I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
                > show you what has
                > happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
                > 8 years we have
                > lived here. I don't mow it..well most of it.
                >
                > It is also regenerating. Each year I see new weeds
                > replace the
                > varieties that were there the year before..and
                > sometimes longer.
                > Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
                > that have grown
                > so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
                > transplanted
                > trees from nurseries all of my life. One hackberry
                > tree was as tall
                > as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
                > from it) after 3
                > years!
                >
                > Wildflowers also seem to change out. It has been so
                > interesting to
                > watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
                > eccentric, to say
                > the least, and crazy maybe more often.
                >
                > I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
                > them roll their eyes
                > too often.
                >
                > When we moved here this was basically dead soil. It
                > had been
                > chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
                > I used to get
                > rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                > soil...and my dogs
                > lost hair from laying on it.
                >
                > It has taught me so much more than I could ever
                > learn in a book, even
                > if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
                >
                > Gloria, Texas USA
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >
                > Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                > to:
                > pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                > Send instant messages to your online friends
                > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com


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              • Martin Naylor
                HI oregan must be a pretty nice place, two of my gods from the seventies moved there, robert masters and jean houston, as oregon become the new hippy land
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 2, 2005
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                  HI
                  oregan must be a pretty nice place, two of my gods from the seventies moved there, robert masters and jean houston, as oregon become the new hippy land
                  martin

                  Diana Santry <dianasantry@...> wrote:
                  We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
                  Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                  neighborhood.  I don't have much more than a little
                  city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
                  weeds! that the pollinators love!  My neighbors don't
                  know much of what to think, because it certainly
                  doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
                  can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
                  I hope this takes over the town.  Feels so good!
                  Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
                  to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
                  world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
                  this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
                  people with a future in mind!
                  Diana

                  --- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:

                  > hi
                  > thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
                  > a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
                  > changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
                  > you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
                  > are many along the line who know not what any of it
                  > is worth,
                  > martin
                  >
                  > "Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
                  > I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
                  > show you what has
                  > happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
                  > 8 years we have
                  > lived here.  I don't mow it..well most of it. 
                  >
                  > It is also regenerating.  Each year I see new weeds
                  > replace the
                  > varieties that were there the year before..and
                  > sometimes longer. 
                  > Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
                  > that have grown
                  > so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
                  > transplanted
                  > trees from nurseries all of my life.  One hackberry
                  > tree was as tall
                  > as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
                  > from it) after 3
                  > years! 
                  >
                  > Wildflowers also seem to change out.  It has been so
                  > interesting to
                  > watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
                  > eccentric, to say
                  > the least, and crazy maybe more often. 
                  >
                  > I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
                  > them roll their eyes
                  > too often. 
                  >
                  > When we moved here this was basically dead soil.  It
                  > had been
                  > chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
                  > I used to get
                  > rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                  > soil...and my dogs
                  > lost hair from laying on it. 
                  >
                  > It has taught me so much more than I could ever
                  > learn in a book, even
                  > if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
                  >
                  > Gloria, Texas USA
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  >     Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
                  >  
                  >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  >  pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >  
                  >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Send instant messages to your online friends
                  > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com


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                • Geir Flatabø
                  WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get / pick, oregon is from natures side very rich in species compared to Norway / Scandianvia... Geir Flatabø
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 2, 2005
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                    WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get / pick,
                    oregon is from natures side very rich in species compared to Norway /
                    Scandianvia...

                    Geir Flatabø

                    Diana Santry skrev:

                    >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
                    >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                    >neighborhood. I don't have much more than a little
                    >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
                    >weeds! that the pollinators love! My neighbors don't
                    >know much of what to think, because it certainly
                    >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
                    >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
                    > I hope this takes over the town. Feels so good!
                    >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
                    >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
                    >world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
                    >this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
                    >people with a future in mind!
                    >Diana
                    >
                    >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>hi
                    >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
                    >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
                    >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
                    >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
                    >>are many along the line who know not what any of it
                    >>is worth,
                    >>martin
                    >>
                    >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
                    >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
                    >>show you what has
                    >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
                    >>8 years we have
                    >>lived here. I don't mow it..well most of it.
                    >>
                    >>It is also regenerating. Each year I see new weeds
                    >>replace the
                    >>varieties that were there the year before..and
                    >>sometimes longer.
                    >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
                    >>that have grown
                    >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
                    >>transplanted
                    >>trees from nurseries all of my life. One hackberry
                    >>tree was as tall
                    >>as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
                    >>from it) after 3
                    >>years!
                    >>
                    >>Wildflowers also seem to change out. It has been so
                    >>interesting to
                    >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
                    >>eccentric, to say
                    >>the least, and crazy maybe more often.
                    >>
                    >>I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
                    >>them roll their eyes
                    >>too often.
                    >>
                    >>When we moved here this was basically dead soil. It
                    >>had been
                    >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
                    >>I used to get
                    >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                    >>soil...and my dogs
                    >>lost hair from laying on it.
                    >>
                    >>It has taught me so much more than I could ever
                    >>learn in a book, even
                    >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
                    >>
                    >>Gloria, Texas USA
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>---------------------------------
                    >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
                    >>
                    >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                    >>to:
                    >> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>
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                    >>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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                  • Diana Santry
                    In the Willamette River valley where I live, many berries grow well. We grow native blackberries, salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have added
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 4, 2005
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                      In the Willamette River valley where I live, many berries grow well.  We grow native blackberries, salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries.  We grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your region, as well as boysenberries, currants, gooseberries. 
                      We actually have a huge problem with non-native blackberries being invasive and causing erosion and removing diversity around water bodies-it is just one of the things affecting our loss of salmon habitat. 
                      But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches, plums, cherries, some nuts, like walnuts and filberts, and much more.  Even some of the hardier citrus will grow here.  This is a very fertile area with a mild climate.  A nursery that specializes in unusual edibles nearby may help illustrate what we can grow.   
                      Here is the nursery's interesting website:  http://www.onegreenworld.com/
                      Another similar and terrific nursery north of us in the state of Washington is  http://www.raintreenursery.com/
                      Hope you find this interesting,
                      Diana
                       
                      Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
                      WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get / pick,
                      oregon is from natures side very rich in species compared to Norway /
                      Scandianvia...

                      Geir Flatabø

                      Diana Santry skrev:

                      >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness here in
                      >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                      >neighborhood.  I don't have much more than a little
                      >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and fruit and
                      >weeds! that the pollinators love!  My neighbors don't
                      >know much of what to think, because it certainly
                      >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and the kids
                      >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life is here!
                      > I hope this takes over the town.  Feels so good!
                      >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing our earth
                      >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all over this
                      >world! We don't need to control everything! Thanks for
                      >this posting. My heart feels better hearing about
                      >people with a future in mind!
                      >Diana
                      >
                      >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...> wrote:
                      >

                      >
                      >>hi
                      >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we have
                      >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison whant's it
                      >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at least
                      >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear there
                      >>are many along the line who know not what any of it
                      >>is worth,
                      >>martin
                      >>
                      >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...> wrote:
                      >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a camera...to
                      >>show you what has
                      >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas in the
                      >>8 years we have
                      >>lived here.  I don't mow it..well most of it. 
                      >>
                      >>It is also regenerating.  Each year I see new weeds
                      >>replace the
                      >>varieties that were there the year before..and
                      >>sometimes longer. 
                      >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees for us
                      >>that have grown
                      >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing with
                      >>transplanted
                      >>trees from nurseries all of my life.  One hackberry
                      >>tree was as tall
                      >>as the house (sits on the other side of the driveway
                      >>from it) after 3
                      >>years! 
                      >>
                      >>Wildflowers also seem to change out.  It has been so
                      >>interesting to
                      >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I am
                      >>eccentric, to say
                      >>the least, and crazy maybe more often. 
                      >>
                      >>I have tried to explain it to them...and watched
                      >>them roll their eyes
                      >>too often. 
                      >>
                      >>When we moved here this was basically dead soil.  It
                      >>had been
                      >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone remembered.
                      >>I used to get
                      >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                      >>soil...and my dogs
                      >>lost hair from laying on it. 
                      >>
                      >>It has taught me so much more than I could ever
                      >>learn in a book, even
                      >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at all.
                      >>
                      >>Gloria, Texas USA
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>---------------------------------
                      >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>    Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
                      >> 
                      >>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                      >>to:
                      >> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >> 
                      >>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      >>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>---------------------------------
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>Send instant messages to your online friends
                      >>http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                      >>   
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >__________________________________________________
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                      >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      >http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      >


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                    • Geir Flatabø
                      Thank you for the information. We can grow mostly the same here at the Atlantic Northwest , that you mentions, except that the figs and Citrus have to be
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 5, 2005
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                        Thank you for the information.
                        We can grow mostly the same here at the "Atlantic Northwest", that you
                        mentions, except that the figs and Citrus have to be moved indooors at
                        winter time,
                        and the huckleberries I have not tried.
                        Would it be possible for you to send some huckleberry (Gaylussacia ?)
                        seeds ??

                        Geir Flatabø

                        Diana Santry skrev:

                        > In the Willamette River valley where I live, many berries grow well.
                        > We grow native blackberries, salal, salmon berries and
                        > huckleberries, and have added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries.
                        > We grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your region, as well
                        > as boysenberries, currants, gooseberries.
                        > We actually have a huge problem with non-native blackberries being
                        > invasive and causing erosion and removing diversity around water
                        > bodies-it is just one of the things affecting our loss of salmon
                        > habitat.
                        > But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches, plums, cherries, some
                        > nuts, like walnuts and filberts, and much more. Even some of the
                        > hardier citrus will grow here. This is a very fertile area with a
                        > mild climate. A nursery that specializes in unusual edibles nearby
                        > may help illustrate what we can grow.
                        > Here is the nursery's interesting website: http://www.onegreenworld.com/
                        > Another similar and terrific nursery north of us in the state of
                        > Washington is http://www.raintreenursery.com/
                        > Hope you find this interesting,
                        > Diana
                        >
                        >
                      • Diana Santry
                        Andy- My apologies for the delay in answering this..people around here are using goats to eat the blackberry too! It s a great plan! Rent-a goat! Also, we ve
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 23, 2005
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                          Andy-
                          My apologies for the delay in answering this..people
                          around here are using goats to eat the blackberry too!
                          It's a great plan! Rent-a goat! Also, we've just
                          heard that a disease is attacking some of the berries
                          in Oregon, possibly will affect the non-natives,
                          possibly will affect natives to.. too early to tell
                          what will happen, but interesting.
                          We have a little of the multi flora rose,
                          also-probably not nearly as much as you have. I
                          guess the government handed that out years back as a
                          fencing material to encourage livestock. Is that
                          true?
                          The amount of invasive blackberry and english ivy is
                          stunning around here.
                          I volunteer some weekends for SOLV (stop Oregon litter
                          and vandalism) a large organization that also has
                          enouraged 'stream teams'- we get out and remove
                          invasive plants and replant natives around
                          streams-especially salmon spawning areas. There's
                          also a group called the 'no ivy league' which is
                          helping remove ivy from our forests where it will kill
                          huge amounts of trees. I like the goat plan best
                          *smile*
                          Thanks for your comment.
                          Diana

                          --- Andy Reed <rare_edition@...> wrote:

                          > I don't know if it would work where you live, but in
                          > the midwest US we have an invincible scourge that
                          > takes over any open space called mulitflora rose,
                          > also non-native. This is a major problem but a
                          > major breakthrough was realized when we figured out
                          > goats like to eat it, might be ridiculous, off the
                          > mark, but have you tried letting goats eat the
                          > invasive blackberry?
                          > Andrew Reed, B.S.
                          > "there is no way to peace, peace is the way"
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Diana Santry
                          > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:14 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: [PermacultureWoodlands]
                          > WHY WE NEED WILD LAND
                          >
                          >
                          > In the Willamette River valley where I live, many
                          > berries grow well. We grow native blackberries,
                          > salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have
                          > added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries. We
                          > grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your
                          > region, as well as boysenberries, currants,
                          > gooseberries.
                          > We actually have a huge problem with non-native
                          > blackberries being invasive and causing erosion and
                          > removing diversity around water bodies-it is just
                          > one of the things affecting our loss of salmon
                          > habitat.
                          > But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches,
                          > plums, cherries, some nuts, like walnuts and
                          > filberts, and much more. Even some of the hardier
                          > citrus will grow here. This is a very fertile area
                          > with a mild climate. A nursery that specializes in
                          > unusual edibles nearby may help illustrate what we
                          > can grow.
                          > Here is the nursery's interesting website:
                          > http://www.onegreenworld.com/
                          > Another similar and terrific nursery north of us
                          > in the state of Washington is
                          > http://www.raintreenursery.com/
                          >
                          > Hope you find this interesting,
                          > Diana
                          >
                          > Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
                          > WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get /
                          > pick,
                          > oregon is from natures side very rich in species
                          > compared to Norway /
                          > Scandianvia...
                          >
                          > Geir Flatabø
                          >
                          > Diana Santry skrev:
                          >
                          > >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness
                          > here in
                          > >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                          > >neighborhood. I don't have much more than a
                          > little
                          > >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and
                          > fruit and
                          > >weeds! that the pollinators love! My neighbors
                          > don't
                          > >know much of what to think, because it
                          > certainly
                          > >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and
                          > the kids
                          > >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life
                          > is here!
                          > > I hope this takes over the town. Feels so
                          > good!
                          > >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing
                          > our earth
                          > >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all
                          > over this
                          > >world! We don't need to control everything!
                          > Thanks for
                          > >this posting. My heart feels better hearing
                          > about
                          > >people with a future in mind!
                          > >Diana
                          > >
                          > >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >>hi
                          > >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we
                          > have
                          > >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison
                          > whant's it
                          > >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at
                          > least
                          > >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear
                          > there
                          > >>are many along the line who know not what any
                          > of it
                          > >>is worth,
                          > >>martin
                          > >>
                          > >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a
                          > camera...to
                          > >>show you what has
                          > >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas
                          > in the
                          > >>8 years we have
                          > >>lived here. I don't mow it..well most of it.
                          >
                          > >>
                          > >>It is also regenerating. Each year I see new
                          > weeds
                          > >>replace the
                          > >>varieties that were there the year before..and
                          > >>sometimes longer.
                          > >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees
                          > for us
                          > >>that have grown
                          > >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing
                          > with
                          > >>transplanted
                          > >>trees from nurseries all of my life. One
                          > hackberry
                          > >>tree was as tall
                          > >>as the house (sits on the other side of the
                          > driveway
                          > >>from it) after 3
                          > >>years!
                          > >>
                          > >>Wildflowers also seem to change out. It has
                          > been so
                          > >>interesting to
                          > >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I
                          > am
                          > >>eccentric, to say
                          > >>the least, and crazy maybe more often.
                          > >>
                          > >>I have tried to explain it to them...and
                          > watched
                          > >>them roll their eyes
                          > >>too often.
                          > >>
                          > >>When we moved here this was basically dead
                          > soil. It
                          > >>had been
                          > >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone
                          > remembered.
                          > >>I used to get
                          > >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                          > >>soil...and my dogs
                          > >>lost hair from laying on it.
                          > >>
                          > >>It has taught me so much more than I could
                          > ever
                          > >>learn in a book, even
                          > >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at
                          > all.
                          > >>
                          > >>Gloria, Texas USA
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>---------------------------------
                          > >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Visit your group "pfaf" on the web.
                          > >>
                          > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                          > email
                          > >>to:
                          > >> pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >>
                          > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > the
                          > >>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>---------------------------------
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>Send instant messages to your online friends
                          > >>http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >__________________________________________________
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                          > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                          > protection around
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                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Diana Santry
                          Andy, This wonderful idea sounds as though a grant might be waiting for it. If those are available anymore under the current administration... I would start
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 23, 2005
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                            Andy,
                            This wonderful idea sounds as though a grant might be
                            waiting for it. If those are available anymore under
                            the current administration... I would start with a
                            google search for grants for economic development/
                            agricultural/ maybe make contact with the particular
                            tribal government...if in the US..for seed money?
                            Great idea! I think you can find someone willing to
                            help that get off the ground. Let me know if you want
                            to discuss more ideas!
                            Diana

                            --- Andy Reed <rare_edition@...> wrote:

                            > Does anybody know anyone with investments interest
                            > in a sustainable wild berry business that encourages
                            > economic development for rural aboriginal first
                            > nations peoples? I have it all just waiting to
                            > proceed, the community, willing bodies, etc. It
                            > would be a dream come true.
                            > Andrew Reed, B.S.
                            > "there is no way to peace, peace is the way"
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Diana Santry
                            > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:14 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: [PermacultureWoodlands]
                            > WHY WE NEED WILD LAND
                            >
                            >
                            > In the Willamette River valley where I live, many
                            > berries grow well. We grow native blackberries,
                            > salal, salmon berries and huckleberries, and have
                            > added raspberries, blueberries, cranberries. We
                            > grow some lingonberries-that I think come from your
                            > region, as well as boysenberries, currants,
                            > gooseberries.
                            > We actually have a huge problem with non-native
                            > blackberries being invasive and causing erosion and
                            > removing diversity around water bodies-it is just
                            > one of the things affecting our loss of salmon
                            > habitat.
                            > But back to what grows: apples, figs, peaches,
                            > plums, cherries, some nuts, like walnuts and
                            > filberts, and much more. Even some of the hardier
                            > citrus will grow here. This is a very fertile area
                            > with a mild climate. A nursery that specializes in
                            > unusual edibles nearby may help illustrate what we
                            > can grow.
                            > Here is the nursery's interesting website:
                            > http://www.onegreenworld.com/
                            > Another similar and terrific nursery north of us
                            > in the state of Washington is
                            > http://www.raintreenursery.com/
                            >
                            > Hope you find this interesting,
                            > Diana
                            >
                            > Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
                            > WHat kind of wild berries / fruits do you get /
                            > pick,
                            > oregon is from natures side very rich in species
                            > compared to Norway /
                            > Scandianvia...
                            >
                            > Geir Flatabø
                            >
                            > Diana Santry skrev:
                            >
                            > >We have a pretty good attitude about wildness
                            > here in
                            > >Portland, Oregon, US, still I live in a 'tidy'
                            > >neighborhood. I don't have much more than a
                            > little
                            > >city lot, but it's teeming with berries and
                            > fruit and
                            > >weeds! that the pollinators love! My neighbors
                            > don't
                            > >know much of what to think, because it
                            > certainly
                            > >doesn't fit in, but its gorgeous! and me and
                            > the kids
                            > >can eat berries if we beat the birds and life
                            > is here!
                            > > I hope this takes over the town. Feels so
                            > good!
                            > >Congratulations to all of us humans allowing
                            > our earth
                            > >to recover in Texas and in Australia and all
                            > over this
                            > >world! We don't need to control everything!
                            > Thanks for
                            > >this posting. My heart feels better hearing
                            > about
                            > >people with a future in mind!
                            > >Diana
                            > >
                            > >--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >>hi
                            > >>thats so wonderfull, over here in australia we
                            > have
                            > >>a tidy towns competition, bill mollison
                            > whant's it
                            > >>changed to an untidy town's competition, at
                            > least
                            > >>you know that your eyes don't lie, don't fear
                            > there
                            > >>are many along the line who know not what any
                            > of it
                            > >>is worth,
                            > >>martin
                            > >>
                            > >>"Gloria C. Baikauskas" <gcb49@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >>I wish I had a camera...and had had a
                            > camera...to
                            > >>show you what has
                            > >>happened to my own 3 acres in NCentral Texas
                            > in the
                            > >>8 years we have
                            > >>lived here. I don't mow it..well most of it.
                            >
                            > >>
                            > >>It is also regenerating. Each year I see new
                            > weeds
                            > >>replace the
                            > >>varieties that were there the year before..and
                            > >>sometimes longer.
                            > >>Birds, or other critters, have planted trees
                            > for us
                            > >>that have grown
                            > >>so quickly it is hard to believe after dealing
                            > with
                            > >>transplanted
                            > >>trees from nurseries all of my life. One
                            > hackberry
                            > >>tree was as tall
                            > >>as the house (sits on the other side of the
                            > driveway
                            > >>from it) after 3
                            > >>years!
                            > >>
                            > >>Wildflowers also seem to change out. It has
                            > been so
                            > >>interesting to
                            > >>watch, though I suspect the neighbors think I
                            > am
                            > >>eccentric, to say
                            > >>the least, and crazy maybe more often.
                            > >>
                            > >>I have tried to explain it to them...and
                            > watched
                            > >>them roll their eyes
                            > >>too often.
                            > >>
                            > >>When we moved here this was basically dead
                            > soil. It
                            > >>had been
                            > >>chemically farmed for as long as anyone
                            > remembered.
                            > >>I used to get
                            > >>rashes all over me when I tried working in the
                            > >>soil...and my dogs
                            > >>lost hair from laying on it.
                            > >>
                            > >>It has taught me so much more than I could
                            > ever
                            > >>learn in a book, even
                            > >>if it looks like no gardener lives here at
                            > all.
                            > >>
                            > >>Gloria, Texas USA
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
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