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Re: [pfaf] planting on public land

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  • Frank Woolf
    The Indians planted carefully planned food forests of many food trees and other plants. They were cut down by settlers for timber. Frank Southern Philippines.
    Message 1 of 34 , Aug 5, 2013
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      The Indians planted carefully planned food forests of many food trees and other plants.  They were cut down by settlers for timber.


      Southern Philippines. Zone somewhere between 9 and 11

      On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:02 AM, Infowolf1@... wrote:


      nature itself plants such things all the time. birds poop seeds, squirrels drop or

      bury stuff, etc. etc. so called invasive non native plants and animals sometimes
      have a prior history in the location and are just returning. The list of plants
      the other poster described are often wild anyway. 

      If someone runs off seeding a location, a lot of seeds with be lost to animals
      and pests, and some will survive. And such pre seeding is necessary if
      foraging isn't going to lead to depletion, especially in a disaster situation.

      Did you know that in CA and probably any place that has a history of
      Indians eating acorns, that the oak tree forests are often descended from
      deliberate planting by Indians?


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Christopher McCOY <chrismccoy3@...>
      To: pfaf <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Chris <chrismccoy3@...>
      Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2013 4:40 am
      Subject: Re: [pfaf] planting on public land

      Dear All,
      Regards planting on (allegedly) Public land.
      Please don't - yet.
      I have plans to aid the UK and further afield in these regards in what might be called a cohesive yet still 'liberal' way, where far more awareness of the interactions, consequences, life-form, etc...requires to be inherent.
      Currently, 'give' someone 'seed' idea(s), and they're off like infants presuming a playground of life, self-involevd, self-important, moody, dislikign anyone risking the continuance of 'their' 'seeded/seeding game, planting... Suggest 'foraging' and the, potentially, millions, billions, of humans do so and, before you know it, depletion is the name of the game, earthquake-like unsettling upheaval and change of ecosystems the norm, which, like a table cloth waved excitedy about by well-meaning children trying (perhaps) to see what happens or to get that fly off of it, can unsettle the entire table unless done magically, as a tablecloth rapidly whipped away whilst not unsettling any of the fine fragile porcelain. Suggest monocultural forestry plantations, and they're off... Suggest tagging animals and they're off... Suggest wildlife spy cameras, and they're off... Suggest Permacultiure, and 'they're off' out of permaculture courses transforming according that that latest fad, using the suggested plants, bought/grafted/made-available by the fashionable nurseries, in femptosecond geological/ecosystem time,  transforming yet again, whether nature wants it like that or not... Suggest town-planning, and they're off planting Towns (which grow to become cities).. Suggest industry is good, and tey;re of building Engineering PLANT(s)... Suggest colonializing the Americas and Australia, and the Natives (not just humans) forced, wrangled, mandated, to up-roo else be poisoned/pesticided/fungicided, etc...and the Stories thusly-seeded grow, and consume, transforming... Suggest 'Sustainability' and they're off marketing the unsustainable as 'sustainable'/'green'/'eco' and trying to SUSTAIN the 'stuff', the 'materialism', the 'plant breeding and GM-modifications and wild-plantings', the industries, 'good for jobs', etc...and such grow, are fed, consume, transform, whether the natural world wants it or not, is pleasantly affected or not...
      ...as if ecosystems didn't have enough Earth-shaking changes to deal with...that might sink many an entire populated town build on sand...
      Please don't...yet.
      There are those who read these forums who encourage, 'seed', BROAD-CAST, the masses to behave inappropriately, and watch them run amok as if they understand anything. There are those who read these forums who keep  close watch on those who might spill the Giant's stalk beans... There are a very very few who DO have some comprehension of these things and some wisdom and concern, but who appreciate and worry about what happens if ideas get into and/or via the 'wrong' hands/minds...
      There is much more to mature, wise, and genuine Forest gardening, Gardening Eden, than you may know, care about, or certainly have been told. If you feel self-important, perhaps as a child with a new/'old' game to play trying to prevent others from stopping you, as a soldier mindlessly unquestioningly complicitly slaughtering in the Middle East under the notion of 'Saving Lives', to make yourself feel important or having something meaningful to do, and/or out of vested interests, then you are merely being used 'by' the 'Story(ies)'/'Idea(s)' as a host, much as the Dawkin's 'Meme(s)' re-branding of Green Man Seeded River Out of Eden past knowledge...
      Luke: "Is the Dark Side stronger?" Master Yoda: "No! Quicker, easier, more seductive..."
      Do you think the Light side would evidence the behaviours, laws, enforcements, fashions, pollutions, myopia, that abounds...? Do you think the Light side would try to undermine/usurp/make-illegal the ability of self-reliance and force everyone into total dependent, indebted, and thus leveraged, domesticated, farmed, roped-in, treadmill'd at work, put to work, harnessed and harnessing...?
      Will you truly be allowed, or lead, to do what is truly right, or just what you have been led/baited/lured/enticed to 'think' might be?
      Do you think that you are being 'led'/'lead(Pb)' by the Mad as Hatters? How toxic to minds, the Plumbed-in Lead? How does the Garden grow then? With what symptoms, diseases, pests, rot?
      We do require to plant differently on/in Nature's land...it can never be 'the public's', it can never be 'humans'' land...but please may I kindly ask, suggest, that you may yourself, and/or that you may be encouraging of/via others, to do that which is NOT appropriate, that which is myopic, fashionable, that which is peacemeal and fracturing, that which is destabilising, that which is blinkered, that which is fragmented, that which is a tiny fraction of a humanoid lifespan and as short-sighted as such, that which disregards other forms of life an things going on in favour of quickness, ease, seductive ideas.
      A few apple trees here and there may be one thing, but from the seeded trickle what Amazon may grow, consuming, transforming, undermining, eroding, feeding, spreading,...?
      Please...there I more to what is going on than what plants to buy and plant from the local fashion's garden catalogue/nursery, or what to run out and apply from the latest (permaculture?) course...
      I can but ask...
      It usually falls to the more mature to try to clean up the broken crockery/lives/tableware that the childish have as Lords of the Flies Gaia'n spead everywhere, whilst the childish try to attack/gag/heads-on-spikes the more mature who clean up after them...
      Please be very careful what Idea(s) you allow through you, from you, via you, and host/empower/disempower.
      Gandalf and Galadriel, in the stories, knew better than to be Green Man in such cases and risk allowing/nabling the Ring to act through them...and chose other... whereas the Kings, theNine, Saruman, Sméagol, Boromir, and later Frodo, did not...to the near-extinction of Middle EARTH and all The Shire(s)...
      How are BerkShire, Devonshire, Herefordshire, Buckinghamshire, LondonShire, etc...these days...?
      PFAF - What Future are you REAL-ly planting...!?
      All the Best,
      From: "Infowolf1@..." <Infowolf1@...>
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com; ChristPerm@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2013, 7:24
      Subject: [pfaf] planting on public land
      Someone on one of these two egroups suggested planting
      gardens in greenbelts or other public lands. My initial 
      reaction was relevant to you having an identifiable as such
      garden that you work and claim as yours. (maybe permits
      would be available.)

      But Alex Jones has made an interesting suggestion. That
      you plant various non GMO fruit trees and I guess you 
      could add the kind of veggies that can run wild and reseed,
      in such public land spaces, because they will go on and 
      be of use eventually in future. To whoever. Should look 
      like irregular scattered mixed growth, not like something 
      planned and deliberate.

      Good idea. Just don't treat it as exclusively yours, think 
      of it as aiding survival of those in the future who know 
      what kind of plants to look for to eat.


    • trenthillsmike
      http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?29835 ... Dear friends, One of the last of the Prunus genus missing here, we are looking for is the Desert
      Message 34 of 34 , Aug 13, 2013
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        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Gaardenier" <gaardenier@...> wrote:

        Dear friends,

        One of the last of the Prunus genus missing here, we are looking for is the Desert Peach or Prunus Andersonii. While it is true to seed, I start my search here, to add in my collection-addiction. Trades are possible also.

        Maybe someone has a reliable source for seeds?

        Some info:



        <http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=photos_index&where-taxon=Prunus+andersonii> &where-taxon=Prunus+andersonii



        vriendelijke groeten, Kind Regards,

        Leo Aerts, alias Gaardenier from Flanders - belgium
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