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Re: [pfaf] Re: Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"

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  • Bekki Shining Bearheart LMT
    We can start by having fewer children... and living with less technology. Many of the problems we face are caused by our dependence on fossil fuels and living
    Message 1 of 27 , May 1 12:07 PM
      We can start by having fewer children... and living with less
      technology. Many of the problems we face are caused by our dependence on
      fossil fuels and living beyond the planet's means.


      john willis wrote:
      >
      > BUT - world demand for meat can only be met by intensive,
      > industrialised farming and the damage done by that is
      > unsustainable................so, if we cannot live without it and
      > producing it cannot be sustained where do we go from here.
      >
      >
      > John.
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > From: camaspermaculture@...
      > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:36:05 +0000
      > Subject: [pfaf] Re: Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
      >
      >
      > Annie, to be polite let me just say that I completely disagree with
      > your "facts" and I will simply ask you to tell me which traditional
      > cultures-ones that aren't dependent on mechanized industrialized
      > agriculture and processing-have eliminated meat from their diet. In
      > Japan, where many of the products you mentioned originate, they do NOT
      > eat these foods in the way you mention. They are a very small part of
      > the diet, more of a flavoring than a substantial part of any meal.
      > BTW, even if all the soy produced in this country wasn't GMO, I
      > wouldn't touch the stuff because it is very difficult even with long
      > fermentation to remove all of the anti-nutrients and hormones from it.
      > The only animals that do well with soy are poultry after the soy is
      > roasted.
      > It isn't just vitamins and amino acids. The fats contained only in
      > meats also contain essential nutrition that support the hormone and
      > immune system. Naturally raised meats and fat are necessary parts of a
      > healthy diet. The list of why your regurgitation of what the
      > industrialized food processing world would like us to believe about
      > our food is wrong is too long to post. Your facts have no more
      > scientific basis than Buddhism, although, I can see that your faith in
      > soy beans is deep and heart felt. I suggest picking up Sally Fallon's
      > "Nourishing Traditions" in which she deals with this subject in depth
      > in the Introduction. You can also dig out the information
      > http://www.westonaprice.org
      > Tom
      > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Annie Sampson" <annie@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Tom,
      > >
      > > I am a nutritionist.................
      >
      >
    • Michael Porter
      The voice of reason, -- I like it-- ... From: Tom Gibson Subject: [pfaf] Re: Plant based diets Was definition of farm To:
      Message 2 of 27 , May 1 4:22 PM
        The voice of reason, -- I like it--

        --- On Sun, 5/1/11, Tom Gibson <camaspermaculture@...> wrote:

        From: Tom Gibson <camaspermaculture@...>
        Subject: [pfaf] Re: Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
        To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, May 1, 2011, 1:36 PM

         

        John-Seems like I have to make this point again. Intense industrialized
        farming should not be in our future and it is NOT necessary to feed the
        world. I guess it's true that if you repeat the same lie over and again
        enough times people will start to believe it. Your belief is a lie.
        There are millions of acres of grassland that co-evolved with vast herds
        of animals that were slaughtered to deprive native Americans of their
        main food source. Grasslands are improved by "mob grazing" (look it up).
        Books and many articles in magazines by sustainable farmers have been
        written on the topic. Google "Joel Salatin", one of the stars or "Food,
        Inc." (the movie against industrialized food production). Yes we can
        feed the world, and no-we don't have to discriminate against plants,
        that are just people too that speak a different language than we do.
        Veganism and vegetarianism are TOTALLY dependent on industrialized
        agricultural systems to survive and I would NEVER deprive a child of
        essential nutrition based on a feeling that it is the right thing to do.

        Having said that I also don't participate in any way in the
        industrialized food system. I buy all my meat from pasture raised
        animals directly from a farmer or grow them myself. I only go to stores
        like Whole Foods when I want to buy junk snacks like organic corn chips
        to eat with our home made chili. Sometimes in the middle of winter we
        will purchase some organic greens wherever they are freshest and most
        nutritious looking, but we are working on that. So, yeah, if you buy all
        of your food in a store then you have some very hard choices to make.
        General rule #1, if it has a label, don't buy it. General rule #2, if it
        has a label with a list of ingredients DON'T BUY IT.

        Tom
        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, john willis <wilf1946@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > BUT - world demand for meat can only be met by intensive,
        industrialised farming and the damage done by that is
        unsustainable................so, if we cannot live without it and
        producing it cannot be sustained where do we go from here.
        > John.
        >

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