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RE: [pfaf] Composting

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  • Annie Sampson
    High acidity is caused by animal manure, and using a concentration of this obviously causes problems but unfortunately when you have read the copious amount of
    Message 1 of 54 , Mar 25, 2011
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      High acidity is caused by animal manure, and using a concentration of this obviously causes problems but unfortunately when you have read the copious amount of  research that is available re farmed animals you would not contemplate utilising it !  Animal manure is simply  not required . 
       
      Eduvolve,
       
      Blessings  Annie and family x 


      From: pfaf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Porter
      Sent: 25 March 2011 10:46
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [pfaf] Composting

       

      my garden is great, -- I use everything I can get, -- [with lots of animal manure] I would sugest a soil test[ to include PH, as animal manure can be very acidic, and make an exsisting PH problem worse in the short run]-- MIchael Porter

      --- On Fri, 3/25/11, Annie Sampson <annie@...> wrote:

      From: Annie Sampson <annie@...>
      Subject: RE: [pfaf] Composting
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, March 25, 2011, 4:04 AM

       
      Hi,  it does not surprise me that you are not achieving great compost.  In my experience farm animal manure is so full of contaminants ! (that is another story altogether).  It just does not enrich the ground and nothing seems to flourish.      We are vegans and our compost is so popular with the locals !  We simply put all our vegetable and fruit cuttings, garden cuttings , leaves,   the contents of our hoover bag   used hay from our rabbits and guinea pigs (herbivores)   we did have our rescue hens also but they are now in 8 acres of true freedom but we still produce beautiful compost.    We have 4 composts and it has amazed us just how easy this process has been.  We have an arrangement with others that they give us veg and fruit in return for us giving compost !   We also grow salads in the summer and kale, spinach,  broccoli  , beetroot ,garlic.   whatever we fancy.  All grows well.   Good luck.
       
      Blessings  Annie and family  :)    


      From: pfaf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of faerie9woman@...
      Sent: 24 March 2011 15:22
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pfaf] Composting

       
      I have a queston about the best way t compost to create and ggelp my gardens to grow. I have lots of manure from farm animals but can't seem to create a growing garden any ideas?
      Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

      From: "i23testingcyborg2000" <cromlech108@...>
      Sender: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:23:50 -0000
      To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [pfaf] NU Free sharing game Forest Garden/Permaculture/Nut Growing forum on riseup!

       
      https://we.riseup.net/permacultureforestgardening

      ...I've also put up a North West Wales free sharing network forum on rise up:

      https://we.riseup.net/northwestwalesfreeexchangepermculture

      ..worth a try anyway - to resurrection some sort of north west wales permy network..and the free sharing ethic being where its at really in the light of the reality of babylon vampire money ritual abuse system. The simple reason why I choose north west wales instead of north wales for the sharing network was due to travelling issues. I would say we do need a North Wales based permaculture network...something like they are doing in mid wales, which is very active area:

      http://www.permaculture-wales.org.uk/

      ..check that sites links:

      http://www.permaculture-wales.org.uk/index.php/web-links

      ..very active! All this sort of stuf should really be bi-lingual Cymraeg/English if focused on this area of the world by the way.

      Its very easy to set networks up on we.riseup.net and is a non heirarchical game so its not 'my' website in any way at all, other than the fact that I decided to share my knoledge and experience that I've aquired so far in the field of fruit and nut tree growing and Forest Gardening in this way. Just worth another plug for Martin Crawfords nu book on Forest Gardening...an excellent exposition of the field in all ways for the UK type climate. Get hold of this book. Its a *suddenly all becomes clear* type moment!

      I've heard from the UK permaculture network that a wales wide permaculture network is being foculised right now, with plans for a national meet up this year..not heard that much about it though.

      Bles

    • fran k
      Wo. Now Theres a paradox and a joke there. We are so brainy and clever we are trashing the planet! Now that actually sounds like we have empty heads full of
      Message 54 of 54 , Apr 13 3:12 PM
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        Wo. Now Theres a paradox and a joke there. We are so brainy and clever we are trashing the planet! Now that actually sounds like we have empty heads full of duck soup.

        Imo maybe the pachamama is using us to take it back in time 3 billion years, for it to start all over again with all the total 3 billion year old prehistoric laid down vegetable mass dug up and piped up back on top of the earth for the whole nature cycle to start all over again..

        :)frank

        On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:12 BST john willis wrote:

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        >The comment "if they had the brains" is the important one. We humans are way too clever for our own good and as a result we are trashing the planet.
        >John.
        >
        >To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        >From: michaels4gardens@...
        >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:46:44 -0700
        >Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: Composting
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        > ahh, -- the refreshing voice of reason,
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        >--- On Mon, 4/4/11, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...> wrote:
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        >From: Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>
        >Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: Composting
        >To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 7:19 AM
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        >the idea of human created species is sloppy. All of these animals have precedents
        >among wild types, some extinct some not.
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        >the writer is trying to make the point, I think, that it is unnatural for us to be
        >eating animals period, since they are farmed, I suppose we should only eat
        >animals we hunt and kill in the wild.
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        >Also, he may be angling that those animals that have been
        >modified from their original form by selective breeding for thousands of generations,
        >are unnatural, and their behavior probably ditto. (something can be said for this
        >regarding some breeds of dog. However, abnormal behavior has been observed
        >in the wild, as well as in captivity, in non modified animals. downright vicious
        >and sometimes perverted.)
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        >and, that such animals may be unwholesome to eat. I think this is the trend
        >of thought, I have encountered the second point in another egroup more
        >explicitly.
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        >But his logic is totally false. the animals who eat animals as part of the natural
        >order, sometimes follow herds. The next step, if they had the brains, would
        >be to control the herds, select food that makes them more palatable, and
        >even eliminate all the ones they do not want reproducing and let only those
        >reproduce that beget more muscle hence more meat.
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        >Humans are a part of the natural order, but can wayyy overdo it.
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        >Mary Christine
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        >In a message dated 4/4/2011 4:13:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, michaels4gardens@... writes:
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        >Humans have created no animal species, Humans have guided the evolution of some of them, -- Humans are not smart enough yet to create new viable species of animals. this kind thinking is amazing to me, --
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        >--- On Sun, 4/3/11, john willis <wilf1946@...> wrote:
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        >From: john willis <wilf1946@...>
        >Subject: RE: [pfaf] Re: Composting
        >To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 9:23 AM
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        >Again everyone seems to be getting confused between wild animals and human-created ones. The wild ones are a natural part of our planet whereas the human-created ones are a totally unnatural aberration.
        >Giant tortoises eating dead tortoises is fine as is blackbirds eating worms - but humans eating farmed animals (or their by-products) is an abuse of the natural order.
        >I do wish people would stop this ridiculous thing of linking the wild and artificial when stating that using animals is natural or necessary.
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        >To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        >From: michaels4gardens@...
        >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 03:40:05 -0700
        >Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: Composting
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        >I have eaten with the Hopi, --it was not a vegetarian menu, --where does all this "info" come from??
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        >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Sheila <w50srj@...> wrote:
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        >From: Sheila <w50srj@...>
        >Subject: [pfaf] Re: Composting
        >To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 1:22 AM
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        >ummm frank, giant tortoises eat carrion including dead giant tortoises....so do the iguanas
        >sheila
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        >--- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, fran k <frank_bowman@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> This is off topic below! But it is an interesting response. (From big head me!) :)
        >>
        >> Na. I think your slighty wrong there. Theres the hopi indians with their 3 sisters, Arent they reckoned to be vegetarians? If not vegan, and the wider community nation, that they are a part of. Plus, I cant imagine that one or two of the millions of little tribes that existed on earth prior to the start 6000 years ago of our artificially massive mono competitive patriarchy civilisaton werent compassionate of other animals with whom they like we now would have had empathy for there pain.
        > And by empathy and compassion I mean that they Wouldnt harm them in the same way as care we didnt harm our grannies. The physiology of the human is fruitarian like the bnobos, and other close ape cousins. Length of gut and teeth bear this out. We have same as they. But I do have my own theory that humans slightly veer out of the fruitarian scenario, with the addition of raw fish, as there are too many clues pointing to our love of swimming and water, and especially the
        >> cooking of meat flesh points to this, by tenderising it to resemble the eating qualities of raw fish flesh. Eskimos eating raw meat flesh? no dont think so, as most of their diet was raw fish flesh. Plus as far as other animals are concerned theres many other vegan animals. 3 of the 5 most dangerous in africa are vegan. Cape buffallo. Elephant, Rhino.
        >>
        >> Plus all but one species that originally existed for millenia on the Gallapogus islands were all vegans, the
        > cormorants eat mainly seaweed, the Iguanas eat mainly bay, and them theres the giant tortoises and on and on.
        >>
        >> The majority of the people living on the planet now, especially in the poorest countries are vegetarian.
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        >> It is the commonest diet, in the world.
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        >> Best really not to go there as far as this issue is concerned. Let people be. Difference between a meat diet and a vegan one is that both dont prioritise raw fish, so if what you say about vegan diet is actually true, then cooked meat is just as new and artificial too.
        >>
        >> As far as soil is concerned. It is an amazing mystery. There are more lifeforms below the earth than above, and there is more mass of life below too. If an alien came to the planet first of all theyd call it a water planet, then theyd note that most of the life lives below it. This made me think about plants and trees. Are the plants and trees actually the thing we
        > call the roots. And what we see above the actual roots.
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        >> When I first started growing trees and plants, I noticed that if I put empty pots out id get silver birch and willow appearing in them! Without even planting them theyd just appear. As if carried through the air and from the birds lots of varieties of seeds may have dropped into them, but the ones that grew in the pots were ones that loved the compost mix in the pot. Which led me to think Aye aye, maybe you dont even have to plant out trees and plants at all. Imagine, if, with a knowledge of making the right soil mixes in different places, the trees and plants that you wanted would just appear there like weeds do, loving and thriving in the soil thats just right.
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        >> I also have an idea that the soil changes itself to suit what is growing in it. For instance around here there is just grass, so the soil will only really have The culture and life in it which thrives in
        > a grass ecosystem. As other plants arent growing in it what would be the point of other types of soil flora and fauna being there. So when I come along and start to plant all sorts of trees, then at first they struggle to grow and I would expect it will take some time for the soil to change its constituency and structure to cater for the new plants.
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        >> So maybe coming back to this issue of compost, if as most have said, that a good all round mix of all stuff that composts down and changes to soil is best, as the roots and the mycorhizal fungi will find in amongst all of it what they need.
        >> Hey, just thought. Vegans using vegan compost to grow vegan food, soil then adapts itself to grow those foods for them the best!
        >>
        >> :) frank
        >>
        >> On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:15 BST Tom Gibson wrote:
        >>
        >> >
        >> >I find this a very curious statement. The soil is filled with animals
        >> >and fungi
        > that all show remarkable signs of sentience. Plants likewise
        >> >grow healthiest when they are part of communities of living things that
        >> >communicate and cooperate with each other for their livelihoods. In many
        >> >ways the interactions in these communities are far more complex than
        >> >what we see in animals. I am puzzled by people that say they don't want
        >> >to harm animals but they have no such feelings for plants and fungi
        >> >based on the mistaken assumption that they are too simple a life form to
        >> >care about.
        >> >
        >> >I believe that all life is sacred and we need to treat all life equally.
        >> >If those lives are in our care then we have a responsibility to make
        >> >them the best lives possible and to not waste or discriminate against
        >> >anything that life produces. We have a responsibility to make sure that
        >> >all animals, including
        > humans, have a good death, not a lingering one
        >> >because we are too heartless to help someone or some animal pass when
        >> >it's time has come. Having not seen one traditional society that is
        >> >vegetarian or vegan I believe this is an phenomenon that only exists and
        >> >is only possible in highly industrialized countries and while
        >> >interesting of only passing interest. If we want to learn how to feed
        >> >ourselves as part of a long term proposition and not be dependent on
        >> >external industrialized sources then animals must be a part of an
        >> >integrated diversified farming system that can provide all necessary
        >> >nutrition.
        >> >
        >> >Tom
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        >> > We are vegans and our compost is so popular >
        >> >> Blessings Annie and family :)
        >> >>
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