Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse

Expand Messages
  • travelerinthyme
    I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season. Tomatoes
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 24, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the
      winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season.
      Tomatoes are naturally annuals, and torturing them by extending their normal
      live span is just asking for bugs and diseases.

      If they produced well, and you preserved them properly for storage, in cans,
      the freezer, or dehydrating, you should have all the tomatoes you need for
      winter pizzas and pasta, without wasting energy (electricity, heat, and labour)
      on trying to defy Nature.

      Eat winter veggies in the winter, eat summer veggies in summer, eat smart!

      ~Traveler in Thyme, Blanco County, Texas
      zone 8-9
    • jonathantellerelsberg
      I don t have any particular opinion about overwintering tomatoes, but I would like to point out that tomatoes are in fact short lived perennials in their
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I don't have any particular opinion about overwintering tomatoes, but I would like to point out that tomatoes are in fact short lived perennials in their native tropical zones (so says Eric Toensmeier in "Perennial Vegetables," as does Wikipedia, for what that's worth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato), so overwintering them wouldn't be an extreme defiance of Nature.

        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "travelerinthyme" <traveler.in.thyme@...> wrote:
        >
        > I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season. Tomatoes are naturally annuals, and torturing them by extending their normal live span is just asking for bugs and diseases.
        >
        > If they produced well, and you preserved them properly for storage, in cans, the freezer, or dehydrating, you should have all the tomatoes you need for winter pizzas and pasta, without wasting energy (electricity, heat, and labour) on trying to defy Nature.
        >
        > Eat winter veggies in the winter, eat summer veggies in summer, eat smart!
        >
        > ~Traveler in Thyme, Blanco County, Texas zone 8-9
      • Matthew Sleigh
        Some of the tastiest tomatoes I have grown were on plants that were surviving over winter in a greenhouse - I was not purposefully trying to overwinter them,
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Some of the tastiest tomatoes I have grown were on plants that were
          surviving over winter in a greenhouse - I was not purposefully trying
          to overwinter them, they just stayed alive and kept producing. hmm . .
          . probably they were riper than the tomatoes I pick in season, in
          season I harvest every day, out of season I may not have visited the
          greenhouse every week.

          All the best,
          Matt

          On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:15 AM, jonathantellerelsberg
          <jelsberg@...> wrote:
          > I don't have any particular opinion about overwintering tomatoes, but I would like to point out that tomatoes are in fact short lived perennials in their native tropical zones (so says Eric Toensmeier in "Perennial Vegetables," as does Wikipedia, for what that's worth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato), so overwintering them wouldn't be an extreme defiance of Nature.
          >
          > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "travelerinthyme" <traveler.in.thyme@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season. Tomatoes are naturally annuals, and torturing them by extending their normal live span is just asking for bugs and diseases.
          >>
          >> If they produced well, and you preserved them properly for storage, in cans, the freezer, or dehydrating, you should have all the tomatoes you need for winter pizzas and pasta, without wasting energy (electricity, heat, and labour) on trying to defy Nature.
          >>
          >> Eat winter veggies in the winter, eat summer veggies in summer, eat smart!
          >>
          >> ~Traveler in Thyme, Blanco County, Texas zone 8-9
        • Elaine Sommers
          In Mexico i used to grow tomatoes from seeds out of tomatoes I had just been eating. They grew outside on the roof space and lasted well over a year, still
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 2, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            In Mexico i used to grow tomatoes from seeds out of tomatoes I had just been eating. They grew outside on the roof space and lasted well over a year, still producing and getting stronger. I don't know how long they went on because we had to return to England, but they were still going strong when we left and they were more than a year old then.
             
            Blessings,
            Elaine.

            "We are shaped and fashioned by what we love"
              Goethe
             
            "Losing your mind can be a peak experience!"
              Jane Wagner
             
            "Our nature lies in movement; complete calm is death."
              Blaise Pascal
             
            ". . . the greatest peril of life lies in the fact that human food consists entirely of souls. All the creatures that we have to kill to eat, all those that we have to strike down and destroy to make clothes for ourselves, have souls, souls that do not perish with the body . . . All that exists lives."
             
            from 'Shaman, the wounded healer' by J. Halifax, 1982




             

            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            From: matthew@...
            Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:54:14 +0800
            Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse

             
            Some of the tastiest tomatoes I have grown were on plants that were
            surviving over winter in a greenhouse - I was not purposefully trying
            to overwinter them, they just stayed alive and kept producing. hmm . .
            . probably they were riper than the tomatoes I pick in season, in
            season I harvest every day, out of season I may not have visited the
            greenhouse every week.

            All the best,
            Matt

            On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:15 AM, jonathantellerelsberg
            <jelsberg@...> wrote:
            > I don't have any particular opinion about overwintering tomatoes, but I would like to point out that tomatoes are in fact short lived perennials in their native tropical zones (so says Eric Toensmeier in "Perennial Vegetables," as does Wikipedia, for what that's worth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato), so overwintering them wouldn't be an extreme defiance of Nature.
            >
            > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "travelerinthyme" <traveler.in.thyme@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season. Tomatoes are naturally annuals, and torturing them by extending their normal live span is just asking for bugs and diseases.
            >>
            >> If they produced well, and you preserved them properly for storage, in cans, the freezer, or dehydrating, you should have all the tomatoes you need for winter pizzas and pasta, without wasting energy (electricity, heat, and labour) on trying to defy Nature.
            >>
            >> Eat winter veggies in the winter, eat summer veggies in summer, eat smart!
            >>
            >> ~Traveler in Thyme, Blanco County, Texas zone 8-9

          • peter wheat
            Of interest? From: http://deepgreenpermaculture.wordpress.com/diy-instructions/grafting-eggplant-onto-devil-plant/ This grafting process make plants that are
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 2, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Of interest?

              From: 
               
              http://deepgreenpermaculture.wordpress.com/diy-instructions/grafting-eggplant-onto-devil-plant/
               
              "This grafting process make plants that are annual in cold climates into perennials. I have seen tomatoes grafted onto Devil plants in greenhouses fruiting almost all year round, and I have seen outdoor eggplant grafted Devil plants survive a winter and fruit for their second year ..."



              To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              From: matthew@...
              Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:54:14 +0800
              Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse

               
              Some of the tastiest tomatoes I have grown were on plants that were
              surviving over winter in a greenhouse - I was not purposefully trying
              to overwinter them, they just stayed alive and kept producing. hmm . .
              . probably they were riper than the tomatoes I pick in season, in
              season I harvest every day, out of season I may not have visited the
              greenhouse every week.

              All the best,
              Matt

              On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:15 AM, jonathantellerelsberg
              <jelsberg@...> wrote:
              > I don't have any particular opinion about overwintering tomatoes, but I would like to point out that tomatoes are in fact short lived perennials in their native tropical zones (so says Eric Toensmeier in "Perennial Vegetables," as does Wikipedia, for what that's worth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato), so overwintering them wouldn't be an extreme defiance of Nature.
              >
              > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "travelerinthyme" <traveler.in.thyme@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> I advise against trying to keep tomato plants alive in a greenhouse over the winter, after they have given their all during the normal growing season. Tomatoes are naturally annuals, and torturing them by extending their normal live span is just asking for bugs and diseases.
              >>
              >> If they produced well, and you preserved them properly for storage, in cans, the freezer, or dehydrating, you should have all the tomatoes you need for winter pizzas and pasta, without wasting energy (electricity, heat, and labour) on trying to defy Nature.
              >>
              >> Eat winter veggies in the winter, eat summer veggies in summer, eat smart!
              >>
              >> ~Traveler in Thyme, Blanco County, Texas zone 8-9

            • travelerinthyme
              In my opinion, just trying to save precious energy: while tomatoes are indeed short lived perennials in their Native Habitat, the tropics, greenhouses are real
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                In my opinion, just trying to save precious energy:
                while tomatoes are indeed short lived perennials in their Native Habitat, the tropics, greenhouses are real energy hogs in colder climates, and aren't we all trying not to use so much electricity that comes from coal and nukes, and isn't there a water shortage over most of the world?

                ~Traveler in Thyme
              • john willis
                Hello Traveller in ThymeTotally agree about heating greenhouses with fossil fuel but I do feel they are pretty good passive solar collectors on sunny days and
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 2, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Traveller in Thyme
                  Totally agree about heating greenhouses with fossil fuel but I do feel they are pretty good passive solar collectors on sunny days and also pv panels can be used to charge batteries for nights and dark days.
                  JohnMW  


                  To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                  From: traveler.in.thyme@...
                  Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:59:36 +0000
                  Subject: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse

                   
                  In my opinion, just trying to save precious energy:
                  while tomatoes are indeed short lived perennials in their Native Habitat, the tropics, greenhouses are real energy hogs in colder climates, and aren't we all trying not to use so much electricity that comes from coal and nukes, and isn't there a water shortage over most of the world?

                  ~Traveler in Thyme


                • trenthillsa
                  You have to have lots of panels and lots of storage capacity to handle the nights and the unexpected days when there is cloud cover. In northern latitudes,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 3, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You have to have lots of panels and lots of storage capacity to handle the nights and the unexpected days when there is cloud cover. In northern latitudes, solar in winter is a dream or a very, very expensive reality.

                    From experience, it doesn't take many hours to drain a storage bank if it is not being replenished every day and I do mean every day. An overcast day is a big, big problem. Two days in a row means turning on the mains or a generator. When ever I look at a so-called off-grid setup, the moment I see a generator is the moment that I call foul.

                    Since you are trying to minimise heat loss, it would seem to make sense to look at construction. Obviously, south facing is critical. If that's where the sun is strongest, why expose the northern wall to the air? Insulate it, ideally, by building into a hill side and burying all but that south wall. Build on a concrete slab that is painted black.

                    MikeH

                    --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, john willis <wilf1946@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello Traveller in ThymeTotally agree about heating greenhouses with fossil fuel but I do feel they are pretty good passive solar collectors on sunny days and also pv panels can be used to charge batteries for nights and dark days.JohnMW
                    >
                    > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: traveler.in.thyme@...
                    > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:59:36 +0000
                    > Subject: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse
                    >
                  • travelerinthyme
                    I had an Edible Flower biz back in the 1980 s, and in this part of Texas it takes more energy to keep a greenhouse cool in the summer than warm in the winter.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 3, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I had an Edible Flower biz back in the 1980's, and in this part of Texas it takes more energy to keep a greenhouse cool in the summer than warm in the winter. We had a "water wall" of excelsior kept wet, with a big exhaust fan at the other end, like a giant swamp cooler, but it was still too hot for nasturtiums and pansies, and we never spent the $$$ for real air conditioning. In winter, we had two wood stoves, easy when the temps rarely freeze here, anyway.

                      Now, if it won't live outdoors, forget it. Cheaper to buy organic produce than to produce it, some years,, like this one, with no rain at all for months at a thyme.

                      ~Traveler in Thyme, zone 8-9
                    • Ossi Kakko
                      Just want to let you know that Jerome Osentowski in Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute has excellent cool/cold climate greenhouse design utilizing
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 3, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Just want to let you know that Jerome Osentowski in Central Rocky Mountain
                        Permaculture Institute has excellent cool/cold climate greenhouse design
                        utilizing the subterranean heating and cooling system, aka climate
                        battery. See more info:

                        http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/16/clever-rocky-mountain-greenhouses-give-major-season-extension/

                        http://ecosystems-design.com/Greenhouse%20Design%20Services.html


                        :) ossi (from finland)


                        > You have to have lots of panels and lots of storage capacity to handle the
                        > nights and the unexpected days when there is cloud cover. In northern
                        > latitudes, solar in winter is a dream or a very, very expensive reality.
                        >
                        > From experience, it doesn't take many hours to drain a storage bank if it
                        > is not being replenished every day and I do mean every day. An overcast
                        > day is a big, big problem. Two days in a row means turning on the mains
                        > or a generator. When ever I look at a so-called off-grid setup, the
                        > moment I see a generator is the moment that I call foul.
                        >
                        > Since you are trying to minimise heat loss, it would seem to make sense to
                        > look at construction. Obviously, south facing is critical. If that's
                        > where the sun is strongest, why expose the northern wall to the air?
                        > Insulate it, ideally, by building into a hill side and burying all but
                        > that south wall. Build on a concrete slab that is painted black.
                        >
                        > MikeH
                        >
                        > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, john willis <wilf1946@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Hello Traveller in ThymeTotally agree about heating greenhouses with
                        >> fossil fuel but I do feel they are pretty good passive solar collectors
                        >> on sunny days and also pv panels can be used to charge batteries for
                        >> nights and dark days.JohnMW
                        >>
                        >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                        >> From: traveler.in.thyme@...
                        >> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:59:36 +0000
                        >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                      • Steve
                        Hi there, Poultry and other living beings we share our farm/homestead spaces with may contribute heat to a greenhouse in winter. Peace and love. Steve. --
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 3, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi there,
                           
                          Poultry and other living beings we share our farm/homestead spaces with may contribute heat to a greenhouse in winter.
                           
                          Peace and love.

                          Steve.

                          --
                          "All that is gold does not glitter,
                          Not all those who wander are lost;
                          The old that is strong does not wither,
                          Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
                          From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
                          A light from the shadows shall spring;
                          Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
                          The crownless again shall be king."
                          ~  J.R.R. Tolkien

                        • travelerinthyme
                          I had a friend in the A/C biz tell me that you should never expect your heat/cool mechanism to make more than a 20 degree Farenheit difference between the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 4, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I had a friend in the A/C biz tell me that you should never expect your heat/cool mechanism to make more than a 20 degree Farenheit difference between the indoors and outdoors, or else you are spending way too much money and overburdening your equipment. If it's cold inside, put on longjohns and a sweater, if it's pleasant, open the windows (why I never could stand working in an office or retail store ... Claustrophobia!)



                            I've always wish I lived at Amory Lovins' house in Colorado, with banana trees in the greenhouse. But that kinda emphasises my point that it's easier to maintain a greenhouse in the cold than in the heat. Same with our house here in Texas. You can put on longjohns and a sweater, and sit by the fire on chilly days, but when it's 99 degrees in the shade with 99% humidity, ain't nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and the A/C bills are horrendous. This big old barn is not too difficult to cool, as the wide eaves prevent the sun from hitting the glass until late afternoon, when I pull the same thick, insulating drapes we use to keep out the winter drafts.

                            ~Traveler in Thyme, zone 8-9
                          • Sapho
                            Thats very intresting, thanks for the links! More on heating greenhouses in substainable & energy efficient ways: Has any of you done any experimenting with
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 4, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thats very intresting, thanks for the links!

                              More on heating greenhouses in substainable & energy efficient ways:
                              Has any of you done any experimenting with compost-heating?

                              http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/compostheatedgh.html

                              Sapha



                              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Ossi Kakko" <ossi@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Just want to let you know that Jerome Osentowski in Central Rocky Mountain
                              > Permaculture Institute has excellent cool/cold climate greenhouse design
                              > utilizing the subterranean heating and cooling system, aka climate
                              > battery. See more info:
                              >
                              > http://permaculture.org.au/2010/08/16/clever-rocky-mountain-greenhouses-give-major-season-extension/
                              >
                              > http://ecosystems-design.com/Greenhouse%20Design%20Services.html
                              >
                              >
                              > :) ossi (from finland)
                              >
                              >
                              > > You have to have lots of panels and lots of storage capacity to handle the
                              > > nights and the unexpected days when there is cloud cover. In northern
                              > > latitudes, solar in winter is a dream or a very, very expensive reality.
                              > >
                              > > From experience, it doesn't take many hours to drain a storage bank if it
                              > > is not being replenished every day and I do mean every day. An overcast
                              > > day is a big, big problem. Two days in a row means turning on the mains
                              > > or a generator. When ever I look at a so-called off-grid setup, the
                              > > moment I see a generator is the moment that I call foul.
                              > >
                              > > Since you are trying to minimise heat loss, it would seem to make sense to
                              > > look at construction. Obviously, south facing is critical. If that's
                              > > where the sun is strongest, why expose the northern wall to the air?
                              > > Insulate it, ideally, by building into a hill side and burying all but
                              > > that south wall. Build on a concrete slab that is painted black.
                              > >
                              > > MikeH
                              > >
                              > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, john willis <wilf1946@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> Hello Traveller in ThymeTotally agree about heating greenhouses with
                              > >> fossil fuel but I do feel they are pretty good passive solar collectors
                              > >> on sunny days and also pv panels can be used to charge batteries for
                              > >> nights and dark days.JohnMW
                              > >>
                              > >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                              > >> From: traveler.in.thyme@
                              > >> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:59:36 +0000
                              > >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: overwintering tomatoes in greenhouse
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.