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Re: [pfaf] Pasteurizing medicinal infused oils ok?

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  • Anthony Johnson
    Well, I would never think to use something as harsh as lysol. Or do I just have the wrong impression of this product? Your first comment is exactly what I ve
    Message 1 of 15 , May 28, 2010
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      Well, I would never think to use something as harsh as lysol. Or do I just have the wrong impression of this product? Your first comment is exactly what I've been wondering about. I mean, in my case, I make the oils myself, so I know how they are made. But, the question around heat infusions still lingers as a bit of a contradiction in the anti-pasteurization argument. Not completely contradictory, but enough to warrant more consideration of the question at hand.

      Thanks!

      Aaron

      --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...> wrote:

      > From: Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>
      > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Pasteurizing medicinal infused oils ok?
      > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 2:48 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > some oils are extracted under heat anyway. two
      > suggestions.
      >  
      > 1. determine the mode of the oil's extraction in
      > the first place.
      >  
      > 2. get ahold of some disinfectant spray, that has the
      > original
      > lysol spray formula which uses ammonium chloride
      > not
      > ammonium succinate (spelling?) which is good, but the
      >
      > original formula is better.
      >  
      > while you are infusing the oil, spray the air.
      >  
      > Best wishes in Christ,
      >  
      > Mary Christine
      >  
      >
      > In a message dated 5/25/2010 1:38:54 A.M. Pacific
      > Daylight Time,
      > joeliridgeway@ gmail.com writes:
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > I would say
      > avoid pasteurization altogether. The medicinal components
      > in herbs are often
      > very susceptible to heat. Unfortunately microbes are most
      > often stronger heat
      > wise than the beneficial components. Grapefruit seed
      > extract is a good
      > preservative for creams and lotions.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Joel
      > Student
      > Herbalist   
      >
      >
      >
      > From:
      > pfaf@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pfaf@ yahoogroups. com]
      > On Behalf
      > Of AJ
      > Sent: Monday, 24 May 2010 12:50 PM
      > To:
      > pfaf@yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [pfaf] Pasteurizing medicinal
      > infused oils ok?
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > I am making skin creams and to extend the short shelf
      > life of oil and water
      > creams, I will add natural anti-oxidants. I was
      > wondering, however, whether
      > pasteurizing an infused oil would decrease or neutralize
      > the medicinal
      > properties. If anyone knows whether I could pasteurize at
      > a temperature high
      > enough to kill microbes, but low enough to avoid damaging
      > herbs' beneficial
      > components, or just avoid pasteurizing altogether, I need
      > your input
      > desperately!
      >
      > Thank you!
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this
      > incoming
      > message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database:
      > 271.1.1/2894 - Release Date: 05/25/10
      > 04:26:00
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    • Infowolf1@aol.com
      I thought by infusion you were referring to diffusing sorry my confusion. In a message dated 5/29/2010 12:20:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      Message 2 of 15 , May 29, 2010
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        I thought by infusion you were referring to diffusing sorry my
        confusion.
         
        In a message dated 5/29/2010 12:20:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aj_translators@... writes:
         

        Well, I would never think to use something as harsh as lysol. Or do I just have the wrong impression of this product? Your first comment is exactly what I've been wondering about. I mean, in my case, I make the oils myself, so I know how they are made. But, the question around heat infusions still lingers as a bit of a contradiction in the anti-pasteurization argument. Not completely contradictory, but enough to warrant more consideration of the question at hand.

        Thanks!

        Aaron

        --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...> wrote:

        > From: Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>
        > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Pasteurizing medicinal infused oils ok?
        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 2:48 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > some oils are extracted under heat anyway. two
        > suggestions.
        >  
        > 1. determine the mode of the oil's extraction in
        > the first place.
        >  
        > 2. get ahold of some disinfectant spray, that has the
        > original
        > lysol spray formula which uses ammonium chloride
        > not
        > ammonium succinate (spelling?) which is good, but the
        >
        > original formula is better.
        >  
        > while you are infusing the oil, spray the air.
        >  
        > Best wishes in Christ,
        >  
        > Mary Christine
        >  
        >
        > In a message dated 5/25/2010 1:38:54 A.M. Pacific
        > Daylight Time,
        > joeliridgeway@ gmail.com writes:
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > I would say
        > avoid pasteurization altogether. The medicinal components
        > in herbs are often
        > very susceptible to heat. Unfortunately microbes are most
        > often stronger heat
        > wise than the beneficial components. Grapefruit seed
        > extract is a good
        > preservative for creams and lotions.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Joel
        > Student
        > Herbalist   
        >
        >
        >
        > From:
        > pfaf@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pfaf@ yahoogroups. com]
        > On Behalf
        > Of AJ
        > Sent: Monday, 24 May 2010 12:50 PM
        > To:
        > pfaf@yahoogroups. com
        > Subject: [pfaf] Pasteurizing medicinal
        > infused oils ok?
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > I am making skin creams and to extend the short shelf
        > life of oil and water
        > creams, I will add natural anti-oxidants. I was
        > wondering, however, whether
        > pasteurizing an infused oil would decrease or neutralize
        > the medicinal
        > properties. If anyone knows whether I could pasteurize at
        > a temperature high
        > enough to kill microbes, but low enough to avoid damaging
        > herbs' beneficial
        > components, or just avoid pasteurizing altogether, I need
        > your input
        > desperately!
        >
        > Thank you!
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this
        > incoming
        > message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database:
        > 271.1.1/2894 - Release Date: 05/25/10
        > 04:26:00
        >
        >
        >
        > Reply
        > to sender | Reply
        > to group | Reply
        >
        > via web post |
        > Start
        >
        > a New Topic Messages
        >
        > in this topic (2)
        >
        > .
        >
        >
        >
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      • Liz
        Hi You may find this group helpful for cosmetic use of herbs http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/oils_herbs_etc/ HTH
        Message 3 of 15 , May 29, 2010
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          Hi
          You may find this group helpful for cosmetic use of herbs
          HTH

          On 29 May 2010 06:25, Anthony Johnson <aj_translators@...> wrote:
          Thanks. I was reading about GSE recently. However, since that is mainly used as an antioxidant, as opposed to an antimicrobial. So, I have been wondering what if anything can be done to counter that, aside from using various synthetic chemicals. So far, based on what I've read and heard from others, there doesn't seem to be very many options. Thanks for your input. I will certainly keep that in mind.

          Aaron.

        • Steve
          Hi Aaron, In reference to your message to Judy, where you mention the apparent contradiction of how plants medicinal properties are extracted by heat using
          Message 4 of 15 , May 30, 2010
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            Hi Aaron,

            In reference to your message to Judy, where you mention the apparent
            contradiction of how plants' medicinal properties are extracted by
            heat using teas, decoctions and poultices, it must be pointed out that
            one could not hope to effectively extract volatile essential oils into
            a water solution - this is especially relevant to teas and decoctions,
            since they are by definition water-based and involve extended exposure
            to heat.
            These preparations are more properly used to extract other properties
            from plants. For instance, in addition to essential oils, plants may
            contain alkaloids, glycosides, mucilage, polysaccharides, resins,
            saponins and tannins.

            (the following information may be found in "Making Plant Medicine" by
            Richo Cech - an excellent resource)

            Resins are soluble in alcohol and hot oil, but insoluble in water,
            whereas mucilage, polysaccharides, saponins and tannins are
            water-soluble (tannins may also be dissolved in glycerin). Essential
            oils are soluble in alcohol (tincture) and cold-pressed fixed oils
            like olive oil, sweet almond oil or jojoba oil. Alkaloids are soluble
            in alcohol and may be rendered unstable by heat.

            Peace,

            Steve.



            --
            "Soon we realized that these men . . . they were mad. They wanted the
            land; they wanted to carry away the wood; they were also searching for
            stones. We explained that the jungle is not something to be tossed
            over your shoulder and transported like a dead bird, but they did not
            want to hear our arguments."

            ~ Isabel Allende, from The Stories of Eva Luna
          • Anthony Johnson
            Thanks Steve. Hmmmm. I really appreciate your point. However, I do not take that to mean that essential oils cannot be extracted into an aqueous solution, such
            Message 5 of 15 , May 30, 2010
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              Thanks Steve.

              Hmmmm. I really appreciate your point. However, I do not take that to mean that essential oils cannot be extracted into an aqueous solution, such as tea, by way of heat infusion. My understanding is that the essential oil will not lend itself to uniform diffusion in an aqueous solution. In other words, it would be like dropping a ball of oil into a cup of water. Or better yet, like taking a fish oil capsule and boiling it in water. The capsule will break down and the oil will be released into the water by the heat process, but it will not mix or blend well with the water. The very process of obtaining essential oils (which of course are not really oils, but blend well with oil and tend to act like oils in water) involves distillation and water is usually employed. However, the essential oil will generally sit at the top of the water and afterwards, is collected by sort of skimming it from the water's surface. Therefore, I do not think the point is that
              teas from hot infusion do not contain essential oils. One of the concerns is that the heat will cause them to evaporate rather quickly. However, if a good lid is used during the steeping step of making your tea, evaporation can be minimized and the tea will indeed contain essential oils. I usually let the liquid that has condensed on the surface of the lid drip back into the container before I consume the tea. Also, as I mentioned in my original post, I am making creams, which are oil and water mixtures. The high-powered and high speed blending process sort of bridges the incompatible nature of oil/water, so that the essential oils may be floating at on the top of my tea portions of the cream, is not really an issue in the end. Of course, I also always have the option of reserving plants high in essential oils for oil infusions, rather than teas, and using plants where the essential oil is not the main target for the water infusions. I usually do both,
              however, just to get an extra boost in the oil and water form, before blending them together.

              All that said, the matter of whether to pasteurize or not to pasteurize has more or less been resolved. Although I will still keep in open mind.



              --- On Sun, 5/30/10, Steve <permalove@...> wrote:

              > From: Steve <permalove@...>
              > Subject: [pfaf] re: Pasteurizing medicinal infused oils ok?
              > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010, 2:01 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Aaron,
              >
              >
              >
              > In reference to your message to Judy, where you mention the
              > apparent
              >
              > contradiction of how plants' medicinal properties are
              > extracted by
              >
              > heat using teas, decoctions and poultices, it must be
              > pointed out that
              >
              > one could not hope to effectively extract volatile
              > essential oils into
              >
              > a water solution - this is especially relevant to teas and
              > decoctions,
              >
              > since they are by definition water-based and involve
              > extended exposure
              >
              > to heat.
              >
              > These preparations are more properly used to extract other
              > properties
              >
              > from plants. For instance, in addition to essential oils,
              > plants may
              >
              > contain alkaloids, glycosides, mucilage, polysaccharides,
              > resins,
              >
              > saponins and tannins.
              >
              >
              >
              > (the following information may be found in "Making
              > Plant Medicine" by
              >
              > Richo Cech - an excellent resource)
              >
              >
              >
              > Resins are soluble in alcohol and hot oil, but insoluble in
              > water,
              >
              > whereas mucilage, polysaccharides, saponins and tannins
              > are
              >
              > water-soluble (tannins may also be dissolved in glycerin).
              > Essential
              >
              > oils are soluble in alcohol (tincture) and cold-pressed
              > fixed oils
              >
              > like olive oil, sweet almond oil or jojoba oil. Alkaloids
              > are soluble
              >
              > in alcohol and may be rendered unstable by heat.
              >
              >
              >
              > Peace,
              >
              >
              >
              > Steve.
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              > "Soon we realized that these men . . . they were mad.
              > They wanted the
              >
              > land; they wanted to carry away the wood; they were also
              > searching for
              >
              > stones. We explained that the jungle is not something to
              > be tossed
              >
              > over your shoulder and transported like a dead bird, but
              > they did not
              >
              > want to hear our arguments."
              >
              >
              >
              > ~ Isabel Allende, from The Stories of Eva Luna
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Joseph A. Cleary
              Dear Steve & Aaron: What you make and sell interests me greatly, not for injection of the oils though. In that I m allergic to alcohol all forms of the stuff,
              Message 6 of 15 , May 30, 2010
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                        Dear Steve & Aaron:
                            What you make and sell interests me greatly, not for injection of the oils though.
                            In that I'm allergic to alcohol all forms of the stuff, as a habit I wear perfumed oils, as I'd much rather smell like a flower than a dirty armpit.
                            When I was there in 04 I bought a bottle of something I gave to a friend, it was way too strong for me.
                            But settle scents are just fine, and they don't offend any one here.
                Shalom, Shalom, Yosef of Ok.    
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Steve
                Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 9:01 AM
                Subject: [pfaf] re: Pasteurizing medicinal infused oils ok?

                 

                Hi Aaron,

                In reference to your message to Judy, where you mention the apparent
                contradiction of how plants' medicinal properties are extracted by
                heat using teas, decoctions and poultices, it must be pointed out that
                one could not hope to effectively extract volatile essential oils into
                a water solution - this is especially relevant to teas and decoctions,
                since they are by definition water-based and involve extended exposure
                to heat.
                These preparations are more properly used to extract other properties
                from plants. For instance, in addition to essential oils, plants may
                contain alkaloids, glycosides, mucilage, polysaccharides, resins,
                saponins and tannins.

                (the following information may be found in "Making Plant Medicine" by
                Richo Cech - an excellent resource)

                Resins are soluble in alcohol and hot oil, but insoluble in water,
                whereas mucilage, polysaccharides, saponins and tannins are
                water-soluble (tannins may also be dissolved in glycerin). Essential
                oils are soluble in alcohol (tincture) and cold-pressed fixed oils
                like olive oil, sweet almond oil or jojoba oil. Alkaloids are soluble
                in alcohol and may be rendered unstable by heat.

                Peace,

                Steve.

                --
                "Soon we realized that these men . . . they were mad. They wanted the
                land; they wanted to carry away the wood; they were also searching for
                stones. We explained that the jungle is not something to be tossed
                over your shoulder and transported like a dead bird, but they did not
                want to hear our arguments."

                ~ Isabel Allende, from The Stories of Eva Luna

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