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Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

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  • Joseph A. Cleary
    Dear Friend: I ve seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it. As some one who remembered
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 13, 2010
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              Dear Friend:
                  I've seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it.
                  As some one who remembered his childhood and who's mother wanted enough back walnut meat to make a tasty cake. They also make a great dye as I had the black stain on my hands for weeks before it finally wore off.
                  Most people who do have trouble with them as they only produce one real good tap root, but I found a way around that as a result none of my trees no matter what kind never blow over or brake off and the ground either, but most people either don't care or they simply don't want any advice.
      Shalom, Shalom, Yosef of Ok.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 8:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

       

      some times wild persimmon will grow nicely with it

      On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM, charfair fairchar <FertilityFair@ gmail.com> wrote:
       

      Is there anything I can plant with black walnuts?

      --
      Charlotte Fairchild
      Fear Thou Not, 501(c)3
      Murder On the Silver Comet Trail!
      http://murdertrail. blogspot. com


    • Joseph A. Cleary
      Dear Miekal: I get along far better with plants than I do people, I ve never been cussed out by any plant. I grew up on a working farm in Texas, so I know
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 13, 2010
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                Dear Miekal:
                    I get along far better with plants than I do people, I've never been cussed out by any plant.
                    I grew up on a working farm in Texas, so I know about growing plants.
                    If want to insure more than one tap root you might try this as I used to do this very trick for friends who's trees were sapped off in a real hard breeze.
                    Most people start their young trees in a paste milk box with dirt, you have to punch holes in the bottom for drainage. 
                    I packed the seedling in the soil well, but instead of just making holes in the bottom, I cut the bottom of the paste box off completely, it's support was galvanized wire. Every time a root hit the wire it would die back, it caused a hundred tap roots to form instead of just one. Those don't blow over nor do the snap off like the other did.
                    You might give that a try if you want to see a really strong tree.
                    Do be well.
        Shalom, Shalom, Yosef of Ok.        
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:43 PM
        Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

         

        I have yet to find anything that is affected by juglone to the point where the plants noticeably suffer.  I have walnuts growing within 25 feet of a full on vegetable garden & everywhere in my 3 acre forest garden.....

        ~mIEKAL


        On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Organic Life <Brave.life.earth@ gmail.com> wrote:
         

        some times wild persimmon will grow nicely with it

        On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM, charfair fairchar <FertilityFair@ gmail.com> wrote:
         

        Is there anything I can plant with black walnuts?

        --
        Charlotte Fairchild
        Fear Thou Not, 501(c)3
        Murder On the Silver Comet Trail!
        http://murdertrail. blogspot. com

      • brave.life.earth@gmail.com
        i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am trying to grow more perhaps
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 14, 2010
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          i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am trying to grow more perhaps the best way to propagate is via branchs
          -----Original Message-----
          Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:09:28 am
          To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: "Joseph A. Cleary" <josepa2@...>
          From: "Joseph A. Cleary" <josepa2@...>
          Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

          Dear Friend:
          I've seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it.
          As some one who remembered his childhood and who's mother wanted enough back walnut meat to make a tasty cake. They also make a great dye as I had the black stain on my hands for weeks before it finally wore off.
          Most people who do have trouble with them as they only produce one real good tap root, but I found a way around that as a result none of my trees no matter what kind never blow over or brake off and the ground either, but most people either don't care or they simply don't want any advice.
          Shalom, Shalom, Yosef of Ok.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Organic Life
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 8:58 PM
          Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.



          some times wild persimmon will grow nicely with it



          On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM, charfair fairchar <Fertili
        • mijwiz
          ... What species is called wild persimmon where you are? Here in the USA, Diospyros virginiana grows wild. The seeds need to be cold-stratified to sprout.
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 15, 2010
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            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "brave.life.earth@..." <Brave.life.earth@...> wrote:
            >
            > i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am trying to grow more perhaps the best way to propagate is via branchs
            > -----Original Message-----

            What species is called "wild persimmon" where you are? Here in the USA, Diospyros virginiana grows wild. The seeds need to be cold-stratified to sprout. The easiest way to do this is to plant them outside in the fall and let them overwinter. They'll sprout in spring.

            However, you might not want to do this, since half the seedlings will be male, and produce no fruit. You might instead want to buy grafted trees, like from here:
            http://www.nolinnursery.com/Persimon.htm

            Or, if you've found a particularly good wild tree, you could try grafting a branch of it onto a seedling.
          • Allen Hancock
            I ve been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet for them to germinate. Allen
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 15, 2010
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              Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.
              I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet for them to germinate.

              Allen


              i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am trying to grow more perhaps the best way to propagate is via branchs
              -----Original Message-----
              Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:09:28 am
              To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: "Joseph A. Cleary" <josepa2@...>
              From: "Joseph A. Cleary" <josepa2@...>
              Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

              Dear Friend:
              I've seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it.
              As some one who remembered his childhood and who's mother wanted enough back walnut meat to make a tasty cake. They also make a great dye as I had the black stain on my hands for weeks before it finally wore off.
              Most people who do have trouble with them as they only produce one real good tap root, but I found a way around that as a result none of my trees no matter what kind never blow over or brake off and the ground either, but most people either don't care or they simply don't want any advice.
              Shalom, Shalom, Yosef of Ok.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Organic Life
              To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 8:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

              some times wild persimmon will grow nicely with it

              On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:49 AM, charfair fairchar <Fertili

            • brave.life.earth@gmail.com
              thank you i have them moist ... Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:00:28 pm To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com From: Allen Hancock Subject: Re: [pfaf]
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 15, 2010
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                thank you i have them moist
                -----Original Message-----
                Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:00:28 pm
                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                From: "Allen Hancock" <impact@...>
                Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

                I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet
                for them to germinate.

                Allen


                >i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild
                >persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am
                >trying to grow more perhaps the best way to propagate is via branchs
                >-----Original Message-----
                >Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:09:28 am
                >To: <<mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                >Cc: "Joseph A. Cleary" <<mailto:josepa2%40sbcglobal.net>josepa2@...>
                >From: "Joseph A. Cleary"
                ><<mailto:josepa2%40sbcglobal.net>josepa2@...>
                >Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.
                >
                >Dear Friend:
                >I've seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have
                >a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it.
                >As some one who remembered his childhood and who's mother wanted
                >enough back walnut meat to make a tasty cake. They also make a great
                >dye as I had the black stain on my hands for weeks before it finally
                >w
              • Allen Hancock
                Just to clarify, my friend told me that persimmon seed has to be kept continuously moist from the moment they are removed from the fruit (not just from the
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 16, 2010
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                  Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.
                  Just to clarify, my friend told me that persimmon seed has to be kept continuously moist from the moment they are removed from the fruit (not just from the time you plant them).   I haven't tried growing persimmon from seed so I can't verify this.

                  Allen



                  thank you i have them moist
                  -----Original Message-----
                  Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:00:28 pm
                  To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                  From: "Allen Hancock" <impact@...>
                  Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.

                  I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet
                  for them to germinate.

                  Allen

                  >i would love advice... i am having trouble trying to grow new wild
                  >persimmons from the pits.. this tiny fruit is so sweet so i am
                  >trying to grow more perhaps the best way to propagate is via branchs
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:09:28 am
                  >To: <<mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Cc: "Joseph A. Cleary" <<mailto:josepa2%40sbcglobal.net>josepa2@...>
                  >From: "Joseph A. Cleary"
                  ><<mailto:josepa2%40sbcglobal.net>josepa2@...>
                  >Subject: Re: [pfaf] Black walnut companion planting.
                  >
                  >Dear Friend:
                  >I've seen persimmons as big as oranges and grapefruit, they did have
                  >a bitter after taste, but I did enjoy eating it.
                  >As some one who remembered his childhood and who's mother wanted
                  >enough back walnut meat to make a tasty cake. They also make a great
                  >dye as I had the black stain on my hands for weeks before it finally
                  >w

                • Gaardenier
                  I ve been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet ... Who invented this city rumours ? Vriendelijke groeten, Leo Aerts Flanders - belgium
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 17, 2010
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                    “I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet

                    >for them to germinate.”

                     

                    Who invented this city rumours ?

                     

                    Vriendelijke groeten,

                     

                    Leo Aerts   Flanders - belgium

                      

                     

                  • Allmende Verden
                    Hey people, in zone 7b I´m interested in walnuts, but not in persimmons, so please use appropriate subjects in Emails. Thanks, Klaus ... Allmende
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 18, 2010
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                      Hey people, in zone 7b I´m interested in walnuts, but not in
                      persimmons, so please use appropriate subjects in Emails. Thanks, Klaus


                      Zitat von Gaardenier <gaardenier@...>:

                      > "I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet
                      >> for them to germinate."
                      >
                      > Who invented this city rumours ?
                      >
                      > Vriendelijke groeten,
                      >
                      > Leo Aerts Flanders - belgium
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                      Artilleriestr. 6
                      D-27283 Verden
                      Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                      Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                      http://www.allmende.de.vu
                      Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                    • Gail Lloyd
                      Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any hard seed needs some kind of help to break the seed coat & to simulate what they get in
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 18, 2010
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                        Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any hard seed needs some kind of help to break the seed coat & to simulate what they get in nature ... different seeds need different kinds of help, such as scratching the seed (called scarification; in nature, birds do this by eating the seed, going thru their digestion system, then pooping the seed out), soaking in water for a certain period of time (seeds normally sprout in spring, when there is abundant rain), going thru a period of cold to simulate winter (called stratification - see below for more info), etc. 
                         
                        Water is essential to germination of almost every seed because it penetrates the seed coat of seeds & sets the sprouting process in motion.  Before I plant any veggie seeds or grow sprouts, I always soak seeds for at least 20 minutes.

                        In cases where the seeds need the cold of winter to germinate (as with persimmons), place the seeds in a small container with moist (not wet) sand, peat or vermiculite, and leave in refrigerator for 4-6 weeks. This procedure is known as stratificationPersimmons are hard to germinate this way, and even after germinating, will probably not produce true to the parent plant.

                        "Propagation of trees is primarily by seed, although root cuttings may be used. Improved varieties are obtained through grafting since persimmons do not reproduce “true” from seeds. Seed must be kept for 60-90 days at 50̊F under moist conditions to obtain good germination, or seed may be planted in the fall and permitted to stratify naturally in the ground over winter. The seed bed should be mulched."
                        http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO-108.pdf
                            
                        More info on germinating seeds from different kinds of trees can be found at:  http://forestry.about.com/od/treeplanting/qt/tree_seed.htm

                        Gail, M.G., horticulturist



                        From: Gaardenier <gaardenier@...>
                        To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 7:02:50 PM
                        Subject: [pfaf] Re: Black walnut companion planting.

                         

                        “I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet

                        >for them to germinate.”

                         

                        Who invented this city rumours ?

                         

                        Vriendelijke groeten,

                         

                        Leo Aerts   Flanders - belgium

                          

                         


                      • Organic Life
                        thank you for your many great suggestions...I appreciate all of you...the seeds have gone through wintering and also they have been kept moist...here in Texas
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 18, 2010
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                          thank you for your many great suggestions...I appreciate all of you...the seeds have gone through wintering and also they have been kept moist...here in Texas we get lots of dry spells...of which I think this tiny wild persimmon is adapted to...but I have tried to keep it moist and also have conditions of its original habitat...i did allow some of the seeds to relish in the flesh of the fruits and decay as well...hopefully soon some little sprouts will become available for me...take care

                          On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...> wrote:
                          Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any hard seed needs some kind of help to break the seed coat & to simulate what they get in nature ... different seeds need different kinds of help, such as scratching the seed (called scarification; in nature, birds do this by eating the seed, going thru their digestion system, then pooping the seed out), soaking in water for a certain period of time (seeds normally sprout in spring, when there is abundant rain), going thru a period of cold to simulate winter (called stratification - see below for more info), etc. 
                           
                          Water is essential to germination of almost every seed because it penetrates the seed coat of seeds & sets the sprouting process in motion.  Before I plant any veggie seeds or grow sprouts, I always soak seeds for at least 20 minutes.

                          In cases where the seeds need the cold of winter to germinate (as with persimmons), place the seeds in a small container with moist (not wet) sand, peat or vermiculite, and leave in refrigerator for 4-6 weeks. This procedure is known as stratificationPersimmons are hard to germinate this way, and even after germinating, will probably not produce true to the parent plant.

                          "Propagation of trees is primarily by seed, although root cuttings may be used. Improved varieties are obtained through grafting since persimmons do not reproduce “true” from seeds. Seed must be kept for 60-90 days at 50̊F under moist conditions to obtain good germination, or seed may be planted in the fall and permitted to stratify naturally in the ground over winter. The seed bed should be mulched."
                          http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/HO-108.pdf
                              
                          More info on germinating seeds from different kinds of trees can be found at:  http://forestry.about.com/od/treeplanting/qt/tree_seed.htm

                          Gail, M.G., horticulturist



                          From: Gaardenier <gaardenier@...>
                          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 7:02:50 PM
                          Subject: [pfaf] Re: Black walnut companion planting.

                           

                          “I've been told that persimmon seeds have to be kept constantly wet
                          >for them to germinate.”

                           

                          Who invented this city rumours ?

                           

                          Vriendelijke groeten,

                           

                          Leo Aerts   Flanders - belgium

                            

                           



                        • Gaardenier
                          I agree of course, that seeds, to germinate, SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any, aso. Thus except for germination, the seeds must be kept
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 19, 2010
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                            I agree of course, that seeds, to germinate, SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any,

                            aso.

                            Thus except for germination, the seeds must be kept dry.

                             

                            Quote:

                            Ø    Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any

                             

                            As far as I understand this phrase, no germination is involved. At the other hand, there are no seeds who need to be dried out for germination, so what is the question basically?

                             

                            Vriendelijke groeten,

                             

                            Leo Aerts

                            Flanders – belgium

                             

                              

                             

                          • chex.rice
                            American Persimmon seeds need to be cold stratified in the refrigerator over the winter in damp sand or sphagnum moss. Chris Rice USDA Hardiness Zone 5a
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 21, 2010
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                              American Persimmon seeds need to be cold stratified in the
                              refrigerator over the winter in damp sand or sphagnum moss.

                              Chris Rice
                              USDA Hardiness Zone 5a
                              Illinois

                              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Gaardenier" <gaardenier@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I agree of course, that seeds, to germinate, SHOULD be kept constantly moist
                              > (but not wet) ... any,
                              > aso.
                              > Thus except for germination, the seeds must be kept dry.
                              >
                              > Quote:
                              > * Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any
                              >
                              > As far as I understand this phrase, no germination is involved. At the other
                              > hand, there are no seeds who need to be dried out for germination, so what
                              > is the question basically?
                              >
                              > Vriendelijke groeten,
                              >
                              > Leo Aerts
                              > Flanders - belgium
                              >
                            • Geir Flatabø
                              That is probably right althoug I have two emerging seedlings coming these last days, without any cold stratifying... Geir Flatabø 2010/4/21 chex.rice
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 22, 2010
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                                That is probably right
                                althoug
                                I have two emerging seedlings coming these last  days,
                                without any cold stratifying...
                                 
                                Geir Flatabø

                                2010/4/21 chex.rice <chex.rice@...>
                                American Persimmon seeds need to be cold stratified in the
                                refrigerator over the winter in damp sand or sphagnum moss.

                                Chris Rice
                                USDA Hardiness Zone 5a
                                Illinois

                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Gaardenier" <gaardenier@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I agree of course, that seeds, to germinate, SHOULD be kept constantly moist
                                > (but not wet) ... any,
                                > aso.
                                > Thus except for germination, the seeds must be kept dry.
                                >
                                > Quote:
                                > *    Persimmon seeds SHOULD be kept constantly moist (but not wet) ... any
                                >
                                > As far as I understand this phrase, no germination is involved. At the other
                                > hand, there are no seeds who need to be dried out for germination, so what
                                > is the question basically?
                                >
                                > Vriendelijke groeten,
                                >
                                > Leo Aerts
                                > Flanders - belgium
                                >




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                              • Francis S
                                Im not sure if anyone alse wrote this, y you mentioned it being dry so maybe this could help too. I have found a terarium to work for starting seeds, any
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 25, 2010
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                                  Im not sure if anyone alse wrote this, y
                                  you mentioned it being dry so maybe this could help too.

                                  I have found a terarium to work for starting seeds,
                                  any aqarium sealed I cut A piece of cardboard, ,
                                  and line it with a platic garbage bag
                                  to hold in the humidity while they are in pots.
                                  (Im not sure you you need to,
                                  but I even add water out side the pots)

                                  but I even use a plasic Grocery bag
                                  puffed out not wrapped up for building up humidity.

                                  I have even went as far as fermenting wine inside the aquarium.
                                  (In a glass gallon size jar)

                                  Uncovering it at night IS what I do,
                                  I also use soil thats not to pasty,
                                  (it acts different in pots)
                                  Some decaying leaf matter from a forest floor may be useful.




                                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Organic Life <Brave.life.earth@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > thank you for your many great suggestions...I appreciate all of you...the
                                  > seeds have gone through wintering and also they have been kept moist...here
                                  > in Texas we get lots of dry spells...of which I think this tiny wild
                                  > persimmon is adapted to...but I have tried to keep it moist and also have
                                  > conditions of its original habitat...i did allow some of the seeds to relish
                                  > in the flesh of the fruits and decay as well...hopefully soon some little
                                  > sprouts will become available for me...take care
                                  >

                                  >
                                • Organic Life
                                  Thank you for the furthering of this thread...I like your website idea too...I wish you the most splendid luck. I like Wix.com for a site or zen cart if you
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 25, 2010
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                                    Thank you for the furthering of this thread...I like your website idea too...I wish you the most splendid luck. I like Wix.com for a site or zen cart if you ever wish to sell things.
                                    My little sprouts still have not made it to the surface...boo...however I do like your idea.

                                    On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 4:10 AM, Francis S <manofpeace32@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Im not sure if anyone alse wrote this, y
                                    you mentioned it being dry so maybe this could help too.

                                    I have found a terarium to work for starting seeds,
                                    any aqarium sealed I cut A piece of cardboard, ,
                                    and line it with a platic garbage bag
                                    to hold in the humidity while they are in pots.
                                    (Im not sure you you need to,
                                    but I even add water out side the pots)

                                    but I even use a plasic Grocery bag
                                    puffed out not wrapped up for building up humidity.

                                    I have even went as far as fermenting wine inside the aquarium.
                                    (In a glass gallon size jar)

                                    Uncovering it at night IS what I do,
                                    I also use soil thats not to pasty,
                                    (it acts different in pots)
                                    Some decaying leaf matter from a forest floor may be useful.


                                    --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Organic Life <Brave.life.earth@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > thank you for your many great suggestions...I appreciate all of you...the
                                    > seeds have gone through wintering and also they have been kept moist...here
                                    > in Texas we get lots of dry spells...of which I think this tiny wild
                                    > persimmon is adapted to...but I have tried to keep it moist and also have
                                    > conditions of its original habitat...i did allow some of the seeds to relish
                                    > in the flesh of the fruits and decay as well...hopefully soon some little
                                    > sprouts will become available for me...take care
                                    >

                                    >


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