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Eating Sustainably

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  • Peter
    Hi, Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 27, 2010
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      Hi,
      Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots of conflicting issues, for example: Most vegan diets use large amounts of grains. However many grains are not sustainable, requiring annual plowing of the earth, and significant fossel fuel inputs. So what do you use for staples?
      How do you get your protien, carbs, vitamins and minerals from produce that is local and sustainable, thoughout the year? Food forests are a great idea, but what do you do for food while you are waiting for them to mature?

      Thanks in advance.

      Kind regards,

      Pete.
    • Erich Enke
      Remember nut trees. Good for making cereals/granola. Good for protein and carb. Moringa oleifera trees are wonderful for nutrition and they grow fast, if
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 27, 2010
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        Remember nut trees.  Good for making cereals/granola.  Good for protein and carb.

        Moringa oleifera trees are wonderful for nutrition and they grow fast, if your climate supports them.

        One of the main principals of permaculture: make sure to get a yield.  Even if you have to do some annuals at first.  And many permaculturists supplement their perrenials with annuals.

        Erich

        On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Peter <peter_wheat@...> wrote:
         

        Hi,
        Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots of conflicting issues, for example: Most vegan diets use large amounts of grains. However many grains are not sustainable, requiring annual plowing of the earth, and significant fossel fuel inputs. So what do you use for staples?
        How do you get your protien, carbs, vitamins and minerals from produce that is local and sustainable, thoughout the year? Food forests are a great idea, but what do you do for food while you are waiting for them to mature?

        Thanks in advance.

        Kind regards,

        Pete.






      • Geir Flatabø
        And you don`t have to be a vegan to eat sustainable... Geir Flatabø 2010/2/27 Erich Enke ... And you don`t have to be a vegan to eat
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 27, 2010
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          And you don`t have to be a vegan to eat sustainable...
           
          Geir Flatabø

          2010/2/27 Erich Enke <erich.enke@...>


          Remember nut trees.  Good for making cereals/granola.  Good for protein and carb.

          Moringa oleifera trees are wonderful for nutrition and they grow fast, if your climate supports them.

          One of the main principals of permaculture: make sure to get a yield.  Even if you have to do some annuals at first.  And many permaculturists supplement their perrenials with annuals.

          Erich


          On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Peter <peter_wheat@...> wrote:
           

          Hi,
          Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots of conflicting issues, for example: Most vegan diets use large amounts of grains. However many grains are not sustainable, requiring annual plowing of the earth, and significant fossel fuel inputs. So what do you use for staples?
          How do you get your protien, carbs, vitamins and minerals from produce that is local and sustainable, thoughout the year? Food forests are a great idea, but what do you do for food while you are waiting for them to mature?

          Thanks in advance.

          Kind regards,

          Pete.









        • Gail Lloyd
          You can get many vit s & min s from raw veggies & fruits, especially growing your own sprouts indoors.  Sea veggies (like kelp, kombu, etc) offer a wealth of
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 27, 2010
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            You can get many vit's & min's from raw veggies & fruits, especially growing your own sprouts indoors. 
            Sea veggies (like kelp, kombu, etc) offer a wealth of nutrients, although it would be hard to grow your own, and now, of course, there is the problem of contamination of sea waters.
            As far as grains, you can grow flax & chia (to grow in soil, see http://carolinapetsupply.com/chia_pets.htm )
            You can also grow your own wheat grass in soil in your kitchen.  Wheat grass & barley grass are green foods with a wealth of nutrients. 
            For some interesting organic no-till grain rotation info, go to http://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/magfj/vol-07/magfj-v07g.pdf (pp. 27-32)
            I wouldn't eat large amounts of grains, anyway.  They (as well as nuts & seeds) have phytic acid.  You can soak some out, and a little phytic acid is ok for you.  (see http://www.suegregg.com/about/c.htm).  You can grow nut trees & seeds (soak & bake as the website mentions; only have ~ 1 oz/day)
            Beans are a nutritional powerhouse, also. (soak them overnight or up to 24 hrs, also:  1 c dry beans, 2 c water, 1 T raw apple cider vinegar.  The next day, drain, add new water, and boil til done - different for every bean).
            The most important thing is getting a variety in your diet, and if you do, you should also get the vit's & min's you need.
            B12 is one of the exceptions....it's usually found in meats (including fish) or meat products (dairy).  You can also get it in nutritional yeast, but I think it tastes pretty yucky. B12 in plant foods is unreliable (see http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=107).
            There is also another nutrient that can only be found in meats & meat products (and rare mushrooms):  conjugated linoleic acid.  This fatty acid is produced by cows & other grazing farm animals from linoleic acid in the grass that they eat.
            Protein --> grains + legumes, dairy + whole grains, seeds + legumes, or 3-way combos (pizza made with part legume flour like soy flour or white bean flour & cheese; refried beans w/ corn tortilla & cheese, peanut butter on whole grain bread w/ milk).
            Carbs --> fruits & veggies, grains, nuts & seeds
            Fats --> nuts & seeds (only a handful/day or ~ 1 oz), olives, extra virgin olive oil (cold pressed), flax oil, chocolate (dark), avocado (all called monounsaturated fats), and only cook w/ coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil (high smoke points).
            Hope this has helped
            Gail
             


            From: Peter <peter_wheat@...>
            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 12:21:47 PM
            Subject: [pfaf] Eating Sustainably

             

            Hi,
            Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots of conflicting issues, for example: Most vegan diets use large amounts of grains. However many grains are not sustainable, requiring annual plowing of the earth, and significant fossel fuel inputs. So what do you use for staples?
            How do you get your protien, carbs, vitamins and minerals from produce that is local and sustainable, thoughout the year? Food forests are a great idea, but what do you do for food while you are waiting for them to mature?

            Thanks in advance.

            Kind regards,

            Pete.






          • Peter Ellis
            The message ... Hi Where do you find avocado oil ? I cannot recollect ever seeing it before. Cheers -- Peter
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 27, 2010
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              The message <790645.35961.qm@...>
              from Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...> contains these words:

              > only cook w/ coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil (high smoke points).


              Hi

              Where do you find avocado oil ? I cannot recollect ever seeing it before.

              Cheers

              --
              Peter Ellis

              Porec Sales Office
              Croatia Property Services
              A trading name of Peter Ellis Grupa d.o.o.
              Selling in the new Tuscany!

              Tel +385 (0) 92 247 5879 Personal
              +385 (0) 98 1 826240

              peter.ellis@...
              info@...

              http://www.croatiapropertyservices.com
              http://croatiaproperty.proboards16.com
            • Michael Porter
              I grow all my own food, I raise Taro, Malanga, Tropical Yams, and lots of normal vegetables and fruit trees, I have free range Chickens, and hatch some of
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 28, 2010
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                I grow all my own food, I raise Taro, Malanga, Tropical Yams, and lots of "normal" vegetables and fruit trees, I have free range Chickens, and hatch some of the eggs, to raise for meat Chickens. I do import as much organic material as I can get for free, I use Daikon most of the year as a lettuce substitute, as some varieties have lettuce like leaves,etc, etc,
                Michael Porter
                Orange Springs FL
                michael@... 

                --- On Sat, 2/27/10, Peter <peter_wheat@...> wrote:

                From: Peter <peter_wheat@...>
                Subject: [pfaf] Eating Sustainably
                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 2:21 PM

                 
                Hi,
                Does anyone have any top tips on how to build a sustainable and nutritional diet? I want to eat locally and grow most of my own food, but there are lots of conflicting issues, for example: Most vegan diets use large amounts of grains. However many grains are not sustainable, requiring annual plowing of the earth, and significant fossel fuel inputs. So what do you use for staples?
                How do you get your protien, carbs, vitamins and minerals from produce that is local and sustainable, thoughout the year? Food forests are a great idea, but what do you do for food while you are waiting for them to mature?

                Thanks in advance.

                Kind regards,

                Pete.





              • watchintheriver
                Mountain Rose, an herbal company in Eugene, OR sells Avocado Oil. I think it is www.mountainreose.com, or Google it. Sustainable gardening has been one of my
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 28, 2010
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                  Mountain Rose, an herbal company in Eugene, OR sells Avocado Oil. I think it is www.mountainreose.com, or Google it.

                  Sustainable gardening has been one of my lifelong passions. I also forage. My yard contains, naturally, everything from Asparagus to Barley Grass, rose, currants and wild plums. I collect Rumex, Chenopodium and Plantain (Plantago) seeds. My freezer is full of not only vegetables from my garden but Goosefoot pesto. My larder and dried stashes include herbs, seeds and roots/tubers from Lovage, Milk Weed, Cat tail...What I can't gather/grow here I can collect in the mountains or buy locally. Pinon, great Chiles (we have a short season).
                  I 'inherited' two acres of lush field that is sub-watered. In the canal is Reed Grass, Smartweed, Brook Mint (and Mallards right now). My predecessors,Spanish with their keen sense of remedios and drawing on Native knowledge, grew a garden of herbs including Native Silverweed and Osha (Lovage), they imported wonderful Dandelions and Purslane. It has been a pleasure to 're-instate' the weeds and add other important plants because of their medicinal/edible uses, as well as beauty to deter the Quack Grass--the only thing I have found in my yard that has no use, per se.
                  My goat straw is recycled-after a year of fermenting-into my garden and my neighbor brings me Elk now and again....
                  On a fixed income, I feel pretty darn sustained....

                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ellis <peter.ellis@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The message <790645.35961.qm@...>
                  > from Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...> contains these words:
                  >
                  > > only cook w/ coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil (high smoke points).
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi
                  >
                  > Where do you find avocado oil ? I cannot recollect ever seeing it before.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  >
                  > --
                  > Peter Ellis
                  >
                  > Porec Sales Office
                  > Croatia Property Services
                  > A trading name of Peter Ellis Grupa d.o.o.
                  > Selling in the new Tuscany!
                  >
                  > Tel +385 (0) 92 247 5879 Personal
                  > +385 (0) 98 1 826240
                  >
                  > peter.ellis@...
                  > info@...
                  >
                  > http://www.croatiapropertyservices.com
                  > http://croatiaproperty.proboards16.com
                  >
                • Warron Van Riet
                  Hi Pete, As to nutrition I m not an expert, but I grow my own food and find it healthy enough. As to sustainability, your idea to grow food yourself is good
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 28, 2010
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                    Hi Pete,
                    As to nutrition I'm not an expert, but I grow my own food and find it healthy enough. As to sustainability, your idea to grow food yourself is good enough. If you have or can rent a plot of land @1000sqm you can support a family in food aswell. As to ploughing, techniques such as covering the soil with old black plastic or old carpets for a couple of months will reduce the depth at which you would need to plough (15cm) which will not permanently damage the soil structure. As to fossil fuels being used in agricultural equipment, the few liters of fuel you use is negligble compared to the 100's of liters of fuel one uses to transport food or travel to the supermarket. Rotate your crops often, interplant with crops that improve the soil, use a wormery for fertilization and recomposting, use drip irrigation or find old varieties that can grow without or almost no water. Grow varieties unique to you area and introduce animal and insect species to do most of
                    your farming work for you. The trick in sustainability is efficency. Do this and you will be the envy of all seeking to make our planet a more sustainable place.
                    Respectfully,

                    Warron van Riet
                  • Warron Van Riet
                    Hi Pete, A quick update on what you can grow to supplement your protein intake. Seeds sprouted and not Lentils Tofu, tempeh, seitan Peanuts Legumes, the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 28, 2010
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                      Hi Pete,
                      A quick update on what you can grow to supplement your protein intake.

                      Seeds sprouted and not
                      Lentils
                      Tofu, tempeh, seitan
                      Peanuts
                      Legumes, the highest # being soya
                      Brocolli
                      Artichoke
                      Beets
                      Mushrooms
                      Cauliflower
                      Aubergine
                      Peppers
                      Lettuce
                      Greens
                      Onions
                      Potatoes and yams
                      Spinach
                      Corn
                      Courgettes
                      Water cress
                      Pumpkin, sunflower seeds
                      Apples
                      Bananas
                      Grapes
                      Strawberries
                      Melons
                      Grapefruit, oranges
                      Peach
                      Pears

                      Hope this helps until your nut trees grow!

                      Respectfully,

                      Warron van Riet
                    • Michael Kenna
                      Your comments contain great insite. Do you recommend any reading resources, so I might follow your knowledge path? Thanks in advance. Michael Kenna
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 28, 2010
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                        Your comments contain great insite. Do you recommend any reading resources, so I might follow your knowledge path?
                        Thanks in advance.

                        Michael Kenna
                        michaelkenna@...

                        --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Warron Van Riet <pinigardens@...> wrote:

                        From: Warron Van Riet <pinigardens@...>
                        Subject: [pfaf] Re:Eating Sustainably
                        To: "pfaf@yahoogroups.com" <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 2:22 PM

                         
                        Hi Pete,
                        As to nutrition I'm not an expert, but I grow my own food and find it healthy enough. As to sustainability, your idea to grow food yourself is good enough. If you have or can rent a plot of land @1000sqm you can support a family in food aswell. As to ploughing, techniques such as covering the soil with old black plastic or old carpets for a couple of months will reduce the depth at which you would need to plough (15cm) which will not permanently damage the soil structure. As to fossil fuels being used in agricultural equipment, the few liters of fuel you use is negligble compared to the 100's of liters of fuel one uses to transport food or travel to the supermarket. Rotate your crops often, interplant with crops that improve the soil, use a wormery for fertilization and recomposting, use drip irrigation or find old varieties that can grow without or almost no water. Grow varieties unique to you area and introduce animal and insect species to do most of
                        your farming work for you. The trick in sustainability is efficency. Do this and you will be the envy of all seeking to make our planet a more sustainable place.
                        Respectfully,

                        Warron van Riet

                      • Allmende Verden
                        What milkweed-species do you use for tubers? greetings from KLaus ... Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden Artilleriestr. 6 D-27283
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 1, 2010
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                          What milkweed-species do you use for tubers? greetings from KLaus

                          Zitat von watchintheriver <maury@...>:

                          > Mountain Rose, an herbal company in Eugene, OR sells Avocado Oil. I
                          > think it is www.mountainreose.com, or Google it.
                          >
                          > Sustainable gardening has been one of my lifelong passions. I also
                          > forage. My yard contains, naturally, everything from Asparagus to
                          > Barley Grass, rose, currants and wild plums. I collect Rumex,
                          > Chenopodium and Plantain (Plantago) seeds. My freezer is full of not
                          > only vegetables from my garden but Goosefoot pesto. My larder and
                          > dried stashes include herbs, seeds and roots/tubers from Lovage,
                          > Milk Weed, Cat tail...What I can't gather/grow here I can collect in
                          > the mountains or buy locally. Pinon, great Chiles (we have a short
                          > season).
                          > I 'inherited' two acres of lush field that is sub-watered. In the
                          > canal is Reed Grass, Smartweed, Brook Mint (and Mallards right now).
                          > My predecessors,Spanish with their keen sense of remedios and
                          > drawing on Native knowledge, grew a garden of herbs including Native
                          > Silverweed and Osha (Lovage), they imported wonderful Dandelions and
                          > Purslane. It has been a pleasure to 're-instate' the weeds and add
                          > other important plants because of their medicinal/edible uses, as
                          > well as beauty to deter the Quack Grass--the only thing I have found
                          > in my yard that has no use, per se.
                          > My goat straw is recycled-after a year of fermenting-into my garden
                          > and my neighbor brings me Elk now and again....
                          > On a fixed income, I feel pretty darn sustained....
                          >
                          > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ellis <peter.ellis@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> The message <790645.35961.qm@...>
                          >> from Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...> contains these words:
                          >>
                          >> > only cook w/ coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil (high smoke points).
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Hi
                          >>
                          >> Where do you find avocado oil ? I cannot recollect ever seeing it before.
                          >>
                          >> Cheers
                          >>
                          >> --
                          >> Peter Ellis
                          >>
                          >> Porec Sales Office
                          >> Croatia Property Services
                          >> A trading name of Peter Ellis Grupa d.o.o.
                          >> Selling in the new Tuscany!
                          >>
                          >> Tel +385 (0) 92 247 5879 Personal
                          >> +385 (0) 98 1 826240
                          >>
                          >> peter.ellis@...
                          >> info@...
                          >>
                          >> http://www.croatiapropertyservices.com
                          >> http://croatiaproperty.proboards16.com
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                          Artilleriestr. 6
                          D-27283 Verden
                          Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                          Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                          http://www.allmende.de.vu
                          Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                        • Gail Lloyd
                          i get mine at Sprouts farmers market and I think I got it once at Trader Joe s.  Any health food store should have it. Gail ________________________________
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 1, 2010
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                            i get mine at Sprouts farmers market and I think I got it once at Trader Joe's.  Any health food store should have it.
                            Gail


                            From: watchintheriver <maury@...>
                            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 6:45:25 AM
                            Subject: [pfaf] Re: Eating Sustainably

                             

                            Mountain Rose, an herbal company in Eugene, OR sells Avocado Oil. I think it is www.mountainreose. com, or Google it.

                            Sustainable gardening has been one of my lifelong passions. I also forage. My yard contains, naturally, everything from Asparagus to Barley Grass, rose, currants and wild plums. I collect Rumex, Chenopodium and Plantain (Plantago) seeds. My freezer is full of not only vegetables from my garden but Goosefoot pesto. My larder and dried stashes include herbs, seeds and roots/tubers from Lovage, Milk Weed, Cat tail...What I can't gather/grow here I can collect in the mountains or buy locally. Pinon, great Chiles (we have a short season).
                            I 'inherited' two acres of lush field that is sub-watered. In the canal is Reed Grass, Smartweed, Brook Mint (and Mallards right now). My predecessors, Spanish with their keen sense of remedios and drawing on Native knowledge, grew a garden of herbs including Native Silverweed and Osha (Lovage), they imported wonderful Dandelions and Purslane. It has been a pleasure to 're-instate' the weeds and add other important plants because of their medicinal/edible uses, as well as beauty to deter the Quack Grass--the only thing I have found in my yard that has no use, per se.
                            My goat straw is recycled-after a year of fermenting-into my garden and my neighbor brings me Elk now and again....
                            On a fixed income, I feel pretty darn sustained... .

                            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, Peter Ellis <peter.ellis@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The message <790645.35961. qm@...>
                            > from Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@ ...> contains these words:
                            >
                            > > only cook w/ coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil (high smoke points).
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi
                            >
                            > Where do you find avocado oil ? I cannot recollect ever seeing it before.
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            >
                            > --
                            > Peter Ellis
                            >
                            > Porec Sales Office
                            > Croatia Property Services
                            > A trading name of Peter Ellis Grupa d.o.o.
                            > Selling in the new Tuscany!
                            >
                            > Tel +385 (0) 92 247 5879 Personal
                            > +385 (0) 98 1 826240
                            >
                            > peter.ellis@ ...
                            > info@...
                            >
                            > http://www.croatiap ropertyservices. com
                            > http://croatiaprope rty.proboards16. com
                            >


                          • Steve
                            Hi Michael, How much land are you growing on, if you don t mind me asking? Also, what are some examples of your carbon imports? Do you use things like cane or
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 1, 2010
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                              Hi Michael,

                              How much land are you growing on, if you don't mind me asking?

                              Also, what are some examples of your carbon imports? Do you use
                              things like cane or pampas grass?


                              Peace.

                              Steve


                              (Michael wrote)
                              I grow all my own food, I raise Taro, Malanga, Tropical Yams, and lots
                              of "normal" vegetables and fruit trees, I have free range Chickens,
                              and hatch some of the eggs, to raise for meat Chickens. I do import as
                              much organic material as I can get for free, I use Daikon most of the
                              year as a lettuce substitute, as some varieties have lettuce like
                              leaves,etc, etc,
                              Michael Porter
                              Orange Springs FL


                              --
                              "In the face of all-annihilating weapons, the natural next step may be
                              the use of no weapons. It may be that the only possibly effective
                              defense against the ultimate weapon is no weapon at all."

                              ~ Wendell Berry, in '84 (from the essay "Property, Patriotism and
                              National Defense" as included in the book "Home Economics")
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