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Owning land some distance away

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  • beechpark3@aol.com
    Hi All, The dream is owning 5 acres or so mainly for a woodland/orchard. As most of you will know, here in the South East (UK) property with 5 acres is
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 18, 2009
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      Hi All,

       

      The dream is owning 5 acres or so mainly for a woodland/orchard.

       

      As most of you will know, here in the South East (UK) property with 5 acres is very expensive plus buying land with a property involves the hassle of moving house.

       

      Does anyone own a large area of land like this away from their home?  If so, do you think it's worth doing?  How far away is it and do you feel it satisfies the longing for land or is purely a frustration because it's not on your doorstep? We'd be prepared to go up to 15 miles.

       

      Town living is better for us as we prefer public transport and like the facilities.  Getting 5 acres near town in this part of the country though is near impossible unless you have a lot of money to burn and want to live in a mansion!

       

      Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

       

      Judy

       

    • matthew@b-and-t-world-seeds.com
      Hi Judy, We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away. (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away) Difficulties: Trying to do
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 20, 2009
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        Hi Judy,

        We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away.
        (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away)

        Difficulties:
        Trying to do too much in a visit.
        Forgetting tools, plants, food, water ! matches.
        Neighbours.

        Neighbours will: walk across your land, park vehicles on your land, steal or damage anything, let their animals on your land, move boundary fences, spoil your water, use your land as a tip.

        Neighbours will: look after the tools you don't want to carry back and forth between your home and land, give you water for watering/drinking, watch your land for vandals, let you park on their land, help with work (paid or unpaid) help find local people with skills or useful machinery (tractor to pull your truck out of the mud / builder to make secure lockup / JCB to dig pond)

        Our family has had about 3 hectares on the Quantock hills for 70 years or so, usually there have been family living within 15 miles, very much loved by everyone ! Primitive huts for staying overnight/weekend, fruit and nut trees, mushrooms, blackberries, raspberries. When visited frequently more upkeep is done. If left too long it tends to become overgrown with nettles and brambles etc.

        I guess it depends what you want to do with the land.

        Matt
      • ryborgryborg268
        Control of tenure/land use usually implies ownership, or long agricultural tenancy or crofting lease. Then there is the descion to do individualistic free
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 23, 2009
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          Control of tenure/land use usually implies ownership, or long agricultural tenancy or crofting lease. Then there is the descion to do individualistic free enetrrpise type trip or some sort of collective thing. Really, actually, I believe in community/tribal tenure for woodland. It wood make for a much better and postive community reality from my expereince of this form of woodland ownership such as in the Alps, various parts of the Himalayas.

          However to make it real I think it needs to be made real by NVDA (Non Violent Direct Action) by the mainstream community.

          Groups of hippys collectives in general piss me off, although I have to UK 'peace convoy' days were probably the best of my life, that was on squatted land with individually owned and free vehicles/caravans - communlaising following true individuation, unlike I would say some of the protest camps I've stayed at.which are kinda communistic as it goes. Ego.

          Freedom to leave at any moment avoids the horrific politics and headgames that can and do happy in 'owned' communes)...time passes...time passes, and communities are not making this breakthrough of empowerment and consciousness here in the UK...so you get older and want to make it real, you want some land that you have control over to enact long term projects knowing that the trees are safe and that you can harvest fruit etc.

          Good luck. Oh take a look at the pics of my project in East Sussex on the website of this yahoo group:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf/photos/album/0/list

          (Brightling Farm/Woodland). If you do a multimap search 'kent lane' and select the klent lane in east sussex the red circle will hopefully be rite close to the main entrance - theres a footpath crossing the foodwood pasture. Feel free to check it out people.




          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, beechpark3@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi All,
          > The dream is owning 5 acres or so mainly for a woodland/orchard.
          > As most of you will know, here in the South East (UK) property with 5
          > acres is very expensive plus buying land with a property involves the hassle of
          > moving house.
          > Does anyone own a large area of land like this away from their home? If
          > so, do you think it's worth doing? How far away is it and do you feel it
          > satisfies the longing for land or is purely a frustration because it's not on
          > your doorstep? We'd be prepared to go up to 15 miles.
          > Town living is better for us as we prefer public transport and like the
          > facilities. Getting 5 acres near town in this part of the country though is
          > near impossible unless you have a lot of money to burn and want to live in
          > a mansion!
          > Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
          > Judy
          >
        • Allmende Verden
          Hi, we have a land about 6km away from the city. This means 20minutes by bike one way. Additionally you have to think of everything you`re gonna need (cloth,
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 23, 2009
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            Hi,
            we have a land about 6km away from the city. This means 20minutes by
            bike one way. Additionally you have to think of everything you`re
            gonna need (cloth, food etc.), so you won´t make the journey, if you
            don´t have at least 2hours time on the land. So you need about 3hours
            all in all for a visit in the garden. If you´re havin a job or
            something, you won´t find the time every day.

            Things that need more often or sudden visits than once a weekend:
            * little plants with little roots in droughts need watering,
            especially when in trellis
            * sudden frosts are forecasted and you want to protect some plants
            * slug-collection
            (for a vegan project, don´t know about animal-breeding)

            Other problems:
            * no electicity? No saw, angel grinder, empty notebook
            * dirt roads? No car-transport possible in wet/muddy conditions?
            * public transport to the place? what about guests that come by train?
            * deliverymen can´t tell what day or what time they will arrive and
            maybe the place doesn´t have an adress
            * good luck we never had an accident in the garden - ambulance will
            take long (until they found it)
            * where there are no settlements in the area
            - you might have a pollinationproblem for lack of bees
            - there are no fed cats that built in settlements normally an
            overpopulation of predators that suppress the mousepopulation. So
            you`re gonna have a mouseproblem. Mice like everything you like and
            built a growing population over the vegetation-period until
            everything´s eaten or you´ve done something horrible.

            A good thing about a public/not private land that nobody lives on is
            that it doesn´t divide the people in those, who live on the land and
            those who doesn´t.

            greetings from Klaus


            Zitat von matthew@...:

            > Hi Judy,
            >
            > We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away.
            > (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away)
            >
            > Difficulties:
            > Trying to do too much in a visit.
            > Forgetting tools, plants, food, water ! matches.
            > Neighbours.
            >
            > Neighbours will: walk across your land, park vehicles on your land,
            > steal or damage anything, let their animals on your land, move
            > boundary fences, spoil your water, use your land as a tip.
            >
            > Neighbours will: look after the tools you don't want to carry back
            > and forth between your home and land, give you water for
            > watering/drinking, watch your land for vandals, let you park on
            > their land, help with work (paid or unpaid) help find local people
            > with skills or useful machinery (tractor to pull your truck out of
            > the mud / builder to make secure lockup / JCB to dig pond)
            >
            > Our family has had about 3 hectares on the Quantock hills for 70
            > years or so, usually there have been family living within 15 miles,
            > very much loved by everyone ! Primitive huts for staying
            > overnight/weekend, fruit and nut trees, mushrooms, blackberries,
            > raspberries. When visited frequently more upkeep is done. If left
            > too long it tends to become overgrown with nettles and brambles etc.
            >
            > I guess it depends what you want to do with the land.
            >
            > Matt
            >



            Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
            Artilleriestr. 6
            D-27283 Verden
            Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
            Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
            http://www.allmende.de.vu
            Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
          • Allmende Verden
            forgot buildings: In Germany, outside from the settlement-area you´re not allowed to built any buildings! Under circumstances you can get authorisation for a
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 23, 2009
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              forgot buildings: In Germany, outside from the settlement-area you´re
              not allowed to built any buildings! Under circumstances you can get
              authorisation for a small hut (up to 10m³).***

              Zitat von Allmende Verden <allmendeperma@...>:

              > Hi,
              > we have a land about 6km away from the city. This means 20minutes by
              > bike one way. Additionally you have to think of everything you`re
              > gonna need (cloth, food etc.), so you won´t make the journey, if you
              > don´t have at least 2hours time on the land. So you need about 3hours
              > all in all for a visit in the garden. If you´re havin a job or
              > something, you won´t find the time every day.
              >
              > Things that need more often or sudden visits than once a weekend:
              > * little plants with little roots in droughts need watering,
              > especially when in trellis
              > * sudden frosts are forecasted and you want to protect some plants
              > * slug-collection
              > (for a vegan project, don´t know about animal-breeding)
              >
              > Other problems:
              > * no electicity? No saw, angel grinder, empty notebook
              > * dirt roads? No car-transport possible in wet/muddy conditions?
              > * public transport to the place? what about guests that come by train?
              > * deliverymen can´t tell what day or what time they will arrive and
              > maybe the place doesn´t have an adress
              > * good luck we never had an accident in the garden - ambulance will
              > take long (until they found it)
              > * where there are no settlements in the area
              > - you might have a pollinationproblem for lack of bees
              > - there are no fed cats that built in settlements normally an
              > overpopulation of predators that suppress the mousepopulation. So
              > you`re gonna have a mouseproblem. Mice like everything you like and
              > built a growing population over the vegetation-period until
              > everything´s eaten or you´ve done something horrible.
              >
              > A good thing about a public/not private land that nobody lives on is
              > that it doesn´t divide the people in those, who live on the land and
              > those who doesn´t.
              >
              > greetings from Klaus
              >
              >
              > Zitat von matthew@...:
              >
              >> Hi Judy,
              >>
              >> We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away.
              >> (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away)
              >>
              >> Difficulties:
              >> Trying to do too much in a visit.
              >> Forgetting tools, plants, food, water ! matches.
              >> Neighbours.
              >>
              >> Neighbours will: walk across your land, park vehicles on your land,
              >> steal or damage anything, let their animals on your land, move
              >> boundary fences, spoil your water, use your land as a tip.
              >>
              >> Neighbours will: look after the tools you don't want to carry back
              >> and forth between your home and land, give you water for
              >> watering/drinking, watch your land for vandals, let you park on
              >> their land, help with work (paid or unpaid) help find local people
              >> with skills or useful machinery (tractor to pull your truck out of
              >> the mud / builder to make secure lockup / JCB to dig pond)
              >>
              >> Our family has had about 3 hectares on the Quantock hills for 70
              >> years or so, usually there have been family living within 15 miles,
              >> very much loved by everyone ! Primitive huts for staying
              >> overnight/weekend, fruit and nut trees, mushrooms, blackberries,
              >> raspberries. When visited frequently more upkeep is done. If left
              >> too long it tends to become overgrown with nettles and brambles etc.
              >>
              >> I guess it depends what you want to do with the land.
              >>
              >> Matt
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
              > Artilleriestr. 6
              > D-27283 Verden
              > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
              > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
              > http://www.allmende.de.vu
              > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
              >
              >



              Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
              Artilleriestr. 6
              D-27283 Verden
              Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
              Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
              http://www.allmende.de.vu
              Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
            • giantgardener
              Many people do this in Russia and thereabouts, and have for centuries. Many plots are handed down within families also. Called dachas, its amazing how much
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 25, 2009
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                Many people do this in Russia and thereabouts, and have for centuries. Many plots are handed down within families also. Called dachas, its amazing how much these little country plots produce each year, an abundance of veg and fruits, etc. They are also hardly ever vandalized. Mostly because society respects the tradition.


                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, beechpark3@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi All,
                > The dream is owning 5 acres or so mainly for a woodland/orchard.
                > As most of you will know, here in the South East (UK) property with 5
                > acres is very expensive plus buying land with a property involves the hassle of
                > moving house.
                > Does anyone own a large area of land like this away from their home? If
                > so, do you think it's worth doing? How far away is it and do you feel it
                > satisfies the longing for land or is purely a frustration because it's not on
                > your doorstep? We'd be prepared to go up to 15 miles.
                > Town living is better for us as we prefer public transport and like the
                > facilities. Getting 5 acres near town in this part of the country though is
                > near impossible unless you have a lot of money to burn and want to live in
                > a mansion!
                > Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
                > Judy
                >
              • ryborgryborg268
                Neighbours can: be screaming fascists that seek to **** you up in all mannner of ways due to the presence of dreadlock on ones head, with the ultimate aim, it
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 27, 2009
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                  Neighbours can: be screaming fascists that seek to **** you up in all mannner of ways due to the presence of dreadlock on ones head, with the ultimate aim, it seems, of totally trashing the headtrip that caused you to start the land project in the first place. Thats the UK for you. A different game in Ireland and elsewhere. Of course there are nice straight type locals in the England, its just the (other) hippys that the problem in many ways for real!! (such as the new age anglo clique in north west wales who seem to be totally unable to acept the realy of 'babylon' vampire system and are in effect (still) contained with that entity, and channelling it, despite apparent cosmicness man. This other factor that can be very annoying. I think I've achieved break through in the east sussex case as regards 'the farmers'...but various (mostly respect) issues with the Anglesey site....crazy situation really. Going into racism (towards me), again due to some folks (locals crucially this time) being able to accept the horror reality of 'babylon', and projecting truth onto me, as dreadlock scapegoat of regime type thing.

                  I think really I need to be a traveller so I can say whatever I want, preach whatever I want without running the possibility of getting wound up into adverse reaction from the locals. It can all get very gossipy, silly, dangerous even being in one place all the time - you lose a certin freedom of consciousness....usually hostility manifests just verbally, yes that can be the worst - the head games that you people (human beings) play...and then people claim to be into non violence! It is amazing how inside each others heads these fukers get. I tend to blast through all of that - fearing no one and not bothering about offending any cliques - most people arn't like this and are controlled by society. BIUt of course I'm not Moses or Jesus and don't seek to be some sort of saint that radically shifts consciousness for a whole mass of people in the mainstream. Thus the danger - and need to be a travelling (preacher) or whatever.

                  For axample (facosts trying to take over yer head): Gate locking...kinda like a 'game' to implode free love (essentially) , by the means of para games. OK, an old one, but in the context of land owqnership suddenly becomes a serious negative occult mansonic trip. Yes ok there are some possible real issues - perhaps some people might move on site that are into dealing and hard drugs - smakhesd and the like. You don't want to be associated with that sort of thing if you are to stay on good terms with locals...et people like Simon Fairlie are unwilling to disscuss these sorts of issues as regards making new (hippy type) traveller sites.

                  Simon Fairlie is connected to The Land is Ours!:

                  http://www.tlio.org.uk/pubs/le3fish.html

                  Check this out!:

                  http://www.tlio.org.uk/chapter7/index.html

                  ..if you're UK based and interested in this field, make sure that you get hold of their DIY Planning Handbook - covers all the essential
                  issues.



                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Allmende Verden <allmendeperma@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > forgot buildings: In Germany, outside from the settlement-area you´re
                  > not allowed to built any buildings! Under circumstances you can get
                  > authorisation for a small hut (up to 10m³).***
                  >
                  > Zitat von Allmende Verden <allmendeperma@...>:
                  >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > we have a land about 6km away from the city. This means 20minutes by
                  > > bike one way. Additionally you have to think of everything you`re
                  > > gonna need (cloth, food etc.), so you won´t make the journey, if you
                  > > don´t have at least 2hours time on the land. So you need about 3hours
                  > > all in all for a visit in the garden. If you´re havin a job or
                  > > something, you won´t find the time every day.
                  > >
                  > > Things that need more often or sudden visits than once a weekend:
                  > > * little plants with little roots in droughts need watering,
                  > > especially when in trellis
                  > > * sudden frosts are forecasted and you want to protect some plants
                  > > * slug-collection
                  > > (for a vegan project, don´t know about animal-breeding)
                  > >
                  > > Other problems:
                  > > * no electicity? No saw, angel grinder, empty notebook
                  > > * dirt roads? No car-transport possible in wet/muddy conditions?
                  > > * public transport to the place? what about guests that come by train?
                  > > * deliverymen can´t tell what day or what time they will arrive and
                  > > maybe the place doesn´t have an adress
                  > > * good luck we never had an accident in the garden - ambulance will
                  > > take long (until they found it)
                  > > * where there are no settlements in the area
                  > > - you might have a pollinationproblem for lack of bees
                  > > - there are no fed cats that built in settlements normally an
                  > > overpopulation of predators that suppress the mousepopulation. So
                  > > you`re gonna have a mouseproblem. Mice like everything you like and
                  > > built a growing population over the vegetation-period until
                  > > everything´s eaten or you´ve done something horrible.
                  > >
                  > > A good thing about a public/not private land that nobody lives on is
                  > > that it doesn´t divide the people in those, who live on the land and
                  > > those who doesn´t.
                  > >
                  > > greetings from Klaus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Zitat von matthew@...:
                  > >
                  > >> Hi Judy,
                  > >>
                  > >> We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away.
                  > >> (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away)
                  > >>
                  > >> Difficulties:
                  > >> Trying to do too much in a visit.
                  > >> Forgetting tools, plants, food, water ! matches.
                  > >> Neighbours.
                  > >>
                  > >> Neighbours will: walk across your land, park vehicles on your land,
                  > >> steal or damage anything, let their animals on your land, move
                  > >> boundary fences, spoil your water, use your land as a tip.
                  > >>
                  > >> Neighbours will: look after the tools you don't want to carry back
                  > >> and forth between your home and land, give you water for
                  > >> watering/drinking, watch your land for vandals, let you park on
                  > >> their land, help with work (paid or unpaid) help find local people
                  > >> with skills or useful machinery (tractor to pull your truck out of
                  > >> the mud / builder to make secure lockup / JCB to dig pond)
                  > >>
                  > >> Our family has had about 3 hectares on the Quantock hills for 70
                  > >> years or so, usually there have been family living within 15 miles,
                  > >> very much loved by everyone ! Primitive huts for staying
                  > >> overnight/weekend, fruit and nut trees, mushrooms, blackberries,
                  > >> raspberries. When visited frequently more upkeep is done. If left
                  > >> too long it tends to become overgrown with nettles and brambles etc.
                  > >>
                  > >> I guess it depends what you want to do with the land.
                  > >>
                  > >> Matt
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                  > > Artilleriestr. 6
                  > > D-27283 Verden
                  > > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                  > > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                  > > http://www.allmende.de.vu
                  > > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                  > Artilleriestr. 6
                  > D-27283 Verden
                  > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                  > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                  > http://www.allmende.de.vu
                  > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                  >
                • ryborgryborg268
                  By the way I do think that it might be possible to change community wide consciousness and reality in this kinda direct magical based way (as [per saints etc)
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 27, 2009
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                    By the way I do think that it might be possible to change community wide consciousness and reality in this kinda direct magical based way (as [per saints etc) coming from the base of a sound protest squat. I think I was attempting to foculise this when at Ethinog/Brewery fields protest camp back in 1998. Sort of like the potential was like convoy meets the community in a tribal context...a nice dragon flag game (the Dragon being the flag of Wales and generally the dragon represent earth energy in magic, in this context with a tribal grounding to it). And I can tell you that never did I ever imagine the degree of magic in this tribal protest trip. (unlike the posionous british state compliant type newbury nazi trip). Unfortunately due to, essentially, to other trips going on that site, specially, in retrospect I would the 'Dongas', it ws not possible to make my trip a collective group trip, and thus foculise it community wide. This is verbalising a spirit guide type process by the way. However the potential was there, and I seem to keep trying to make it real anyway, but again, as an individual saint in the 'west', this is a waste of time.

                    If you can do this process correctly, then you are free of 'babylon' in your community. Again, the reaction is serious and severe. Be warned. Expect to get people screaming into your face when you're off yer head at events stuff like "HES A PAEDOPHILE"...kinda trying to foculise that reality around you by inverting the real story and projecting 'babylon' poison onto the channel...sending one so called skitzaphrenic at the same time (yes thats what ritual child abuse causes) what whould be 'channels', a collective trip in which case one would not be isolated and thus vunerable. Thats why its not neccessarily possible to just ignore the fuking assholes - these ignorant scum are just channelling babylon ritual child abuse regime. These are unfortunmate tactics to play by the way, because it creates a 'gloves off' situation by the way. Clueless new age plastics.

                    This is the crux, to change community wide reality so it all falls easily into place and you arn't fighting and struggling within babylon all the time.

                    "thats not true - hes menatlly ill"£

                    Whatever. I don't have any kids, I frankly couldn't give a damn anymore if this particular planet is trashed and that you people incarnate agaiun and again into an endless hell until you learn to have some respect for the Mother Earth. I.e right back to the start. Ha.

                    --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "ryborgryborg268" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Neighbours can: be screaming fascists that seek to **** you up in all mannner of ways due to the presence of dreadlock on ones head, with the ultimate aim, it seems, of totally trashing the headtrip that caused you to start the land project in the first place. Thats the UK for you. A different game in Ireland and elsewhere. Of course there are nice straight type locals in the England, its just the (other) hippys that the problem in many ways for real!! (such as the new age anglo clique in north west wales who seem to be totally unable to acept the realy of 'babylon' vampire system and are in effect (still) contained with that entity, and channelling it, despite apparent cosmicness man. This other factor that can be very annoying. I think I've achieved break through in the east sussex case as regards 'the farmers'...but various (mostly respect) issues with the Anglesey site....crazy situation really. Going into racism (towards me), again due to some folks (locals crucially this time) being able to accept the horror reality of 'babylon', and projecting truth onto me, as dreadlock scapegoat of regime type thing.
                    >
                    > I think really I need to be a traveller so I can say whatever I want, preach whatever I want without running the possibility of getting wound up into adverse reaction from the locals. It can all get very gossipy, silly, dangerous even being in one place all the time - you lose a certin freedom of consciousness....usually hostility manifests just verbally, yes that can be the worst - the head games that you people (human beings) play...and then people claim to be into non violence! It is amazing how inside each others heads these fukers get. I tend to blast through all of that - fearing no one and not bothering about offending any cliques - most people arn't like this and are controlled by society. BIUt of course I'm not Moses or Jesus and don't seek to be some sort of saint that radically shifts consciousness for a whole mass of people in the mainstream. Thus the danger - and need to be a travelling (preacher) or whatever.
                    >
                    > For axample (facosts trying to take over yer head): Gate locking...kinda like a 'game' to implode free love (essentially) , by the means of para games. OK, an old one, but in the context of land owqnership suddenly becomes a serious negative occult mansonic trip. Yes ok there are some possible real issues - perhaps some people might move on site that are into dealing and hard drugs - smakhesd and the like. You don't want to be associated with that sort of thing if you are to stay on good terms with locals...et people like Simon Fairlie are unwilling to disscuss these sorts of issues as regards making new (hippy type) traveller sites.
                    >
                    > Simon Fairlie is connected to The Land is Ours!:
                    >
                    > http://www.tlio.org.uk/pubs/le3fish.html
                    >
                    > Check this out!:
                    >
                    > http://www.tlio.org.uk/chapter7/index.html
                    >
                    > ..if you're UK based and interested in this field, make sure that you get hold of their DIY Planning Handbook - covers all the essential
                    > issues.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Allmende Verden <allmendeperma@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > forgot buildings: In Germany, outside from the settlement-area you´re
                    > > not allowed to built any buildings! Under circumstances you can get
                    > > authorisation for a small hut (up to 10m³).***
                    > >
                    > > Zitat von Allmende Verden <allmendeperma@>:
                    > >
                    > > > Hi,
                    > > > we have a land about 6km away from the city. This means 20minutes by
                    > > > bike one way. Additionally you have to think of everything you`re
                    > > > gonna need (cloth, food etc.), so you won´t make the journey, if you
                    > > > don´t have at least 2hours time on the land. So you need about 3hours
                    > > > all in all for a visit in the garden. If you´re havin a job or
                    > > > something, you won´t find the time every day.
                    > > >
                    > > > Things that need more often or sudden visits than once a weekend:
                    > > > * little plants with little roots in droughts need watering,
                    > > > especially when in trellis
                    > > > * sudden frosts are forecasted and you want to protect some plants
                    > > > * slug-collection
                    > > > (for a vegan project, don´t know about animal-breeding)
                    > > >
                    > > > Other problems:
                    > > > * no electicity? No saw, angel grinder, empty notebook
                    > > > * dirt roads? No car-transport possible in wet/muddy conditions?
                    > > > * public transport to the place? what about guests that come by train?
                    > > > * deliverymen can´t tell what day or what time they will arrive and
                    > > > maybe the place doesn´t have an adress
                    > > > * good luck we never had an accident in the garden - ambulance will
                    > > > take long (until they found it)
                    > > > * where there are no settlements in the area
                    > > > - you might have a pollinationproblem for lack of bees
                    > > > - there are no fed cats that built in settlements normally an
                    > > > overpopulation of predators that suppress the mousepopulation. So
                    > > > you`re gonna have a mouseproblem. Mice like everything you like and
                    > > > built a growing population over the vegetation-period until
                    > > > everything´s eaten or you´ve done something horrible.
                    > > >
                    > > > A good thing about a public/not private land that nobody lives on is
                    > > > that it doesn´t divide the people in those, who live on the land and
                    > > > those who doesn´t.
                    > > >
                    > > > greetings from Klaus
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Zitat von matthew@:
                    > > >
                    > > >> Hi Judy,
                    > > >>
                    > > >> We have 5 acres (2 hectares) a bit more than 15 miles away.
                    > > >> (and a half acre nursery garden a couple of hundred yards away)
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Difficulties:
                    > > >> Trying to do too much in a visit.
                    > > >> Forgetting tools, plants, food, water ! matches.
                    > > >> Neighbours.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Neighbours will: walk across your land, park vehicles on your land,
                    > > >> steal or damage anything, let their animals on your land, move
                    > > >> boundary fences, spoil your water, use your land as a tip.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Neighbours will: look after the tools you don't want to carry back
                    > > >> and forth between your home and land, give you water for
                    > > >> watering/drinking, watch your land for vandals, let you park on
                    > > >> their land, help with work (paid or unpaid) help find local people
                    > > >> with skills or useful machinery (tractor to pull your truck out of
                    > > >> the mud / builder to make secure lockup / JCB to dig pond)
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Our family has had about 3 hectares on the Quantock hills for 70
                    > > >> years or so, usually there have been family living within 15 miles,
                    > > >> very much loved by everyone ! Primitive huts for staying
                    > > >> overnight/weekend, fruit and nut trees, mushrooms, blackberries,
                    > > >> raspberries. When visited frequently more upkeep is done. If left
                    > > >> too long it tends to become overgrown with nettles and brambles etc.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> I guess it depends what you want to do with the land.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Matt
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                    > > > Artilleriestr. 6
                    > > > D-27283 Verden
                    > > > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                    > > > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                    > > > http://www.allmende.de.vu
                    > > > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                    > > Artilleriestr. 6
                    > > D-27283 Verden
                    > > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
                    > > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                    > > http://www.allmende.de.vu
                    > > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                    > >
                    >
                  • Gaardenier
                    In Flanders - belgium there are lots of spare lands from the railway trust. One can hire these lands as far as one can be asked to move away, when they need
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 29, 2009
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                      In Flanders – belgium there are lots of spare lands from the railway trust. One can hire these lands as far as one can be asked to move away, when they need it. Maybe in GB there are also opportunities?

                       

                      vriendelijke groeten, kind regards

                       

                      Gaardenier

                       

                       

                       

                       

                    • ryborgryborg268
                      ... ...whooops a daisy...think I might have spoken to soon there...was cycling by a pub inhabited by one the pink coats people....some guys outside made some
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 13, 2010
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                        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "ryborgryborg268" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Neighbours can: be screaming fascists that seek to **** you up in all mannner of ways due to the presence of dreadlock on ones head, with the ultimate aim, it seems, of totally trashing the headtrip that caused you to start the land project in the first place. Thats the UK for you. A different game in Ireland and elsewhere. Of course there are nice straight type locals in the England, its just the (other) hippys that the problem in many ways for real!! (such as the new age anglo clique in north west wales who seem to be totally unable to acept the realy of 'babylon' vampire system and are in effect (still) contained with that entity, and channelling it, despite apparent cosmicness man. This other factor that can be very annoying. I think I've achieved break through in the east sussex case as regards 'the farmers'...


                        ...whooops a daisy...think I might have spoken to soon there...was cycling by a pub inhabited by one the 'pink coats' people....some guys outside made some comments...I said: "wild dog ritual abuse county or wild yak country - which one?". Lots of people in the village (Robertsbridge) were out in the snow. The pink coats hate that description of their 'game'. It goes right to the heart of the pink coat fox hunt trip. They don't like it, they don't like been shown, ESPECIALLY not in words, but in terms of community shammanism believe it or not in ordinary locations like the village shop, the reality of ritual abuse. They react badly quite often, refuse to accept this reality, (which would just simply ceasing this activity), and fight back. Very weird vibes I can tell you! I really do think/know that the pink coat type fox hunt has been a community wide rural anti occult/magic/real religious mechanism for many many years that needs to end really so their can be consciousness awareness of the pagan/Mother Earth aspect in rural society, and thus a radical change in behaviour towards genuine respect for the entity. I think in particular regard to the woodland especially communally community owned type forest.

                        So if you can accept this analysis for one moment, perhaps you might see how the pink coat trip might seek to undermine the channel that is causing folks to accuratly perceive their reality. They certainly spread some pretty evil what I call 'mind viruses'..or malicious gossip you could say coming from the viewpoint/energy of ritual abuse..of various sorts, thus seeking to trash and or contain the human mind that is channelling the reality if you see what I mean. So something to be aware of please how many time do I have to say it but it doesn't seem to make any difference to those arrogant know all new age types does it now you know who you are solidarity is in order instead the complete and total oppositte appears to the the reality doesn't it now well its you thats got the kids so its you thats in panicing fear about environmental earth crisis that is inevitable if community wide reality does not radically shift.

                        So f'k you Ben Law etc, F'k U

                        :)

                        Actually be aware that even these suppossedly 'sound' individuals don't really have a clue about the cure for this 'old age' type energy - i.e. (especially collective) anarchist consciousness. In other words they are not truely free or awake. Now stop egoising and go and live with the peace convoy in Ireland I'm telling you especially the youth. This factor is absolutely essential, and its not just a matter of getting the appropriate permaculture qualifications or whatever. OK?

                        ..they you can think about getting hold of control of some land for a permy project. First learn what its all about. The problem with this is that you keep remembering about free squat sharing type reality, and thus relativly what a pile of tedius s*** some sort of individual free enterprise land based trip is!

                        Well at least the bur-ruds (AND FOXES) are my friends.

                        KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA!

                        oM
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