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Re: [pfaf] Growing vines in trees

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  • ossi
    Thanks a lot for the hops n alder! Not so much info here, but little observations. In Finland I ve seen Parthenocissus inserta succesfully climbing up in
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 30, 2009
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      Thanks a lot for the hops n' alder!

      Not so much info here, but little observations. In Finland I've seen
      Parthenocissus inserta succesfully climbing up in Rowan and both were
      about 100 years old. About the same age Actinidia kolomikta had
      suffocated a 5 meter tall juneberry and reached into the douglas fir
      behind that... Therefore 6 meters of climbing space seems to be
      necessary for the kiwis. In Finland apples and plums rarely grow
      taller than that, even though I've seen one 15 meter tall apple tree.
      Young kiwi saplings do good in shade, but fruiting requires sunlight
      (forest edge)... I'm keen to find out how kiwis get along with pinus
      sylvestris, which seems to be ok for hablizia to climb on as well as
      are pruned spruces. Schisandra chinensis is naturally occuring in
      shady forests of north-eastern Asia in which it's growing up to the
      canopy. In Finland I have not seen any succesfull cultivars of
      Schisandra in open areas or pergolas, as it has usually remained about
      one meter tall...

      Ossi Kakko

      > In Norway
      > Hops - Humulus lupulus grows vigoriously in alder habitats.
      > Alder is nitrogen fixing, Hops giving edible nice tasting shoots in
      > spring and hops in the autumn.
      >
      > Geir Flatabø
      >
      > 2009/11/29 hydrochar <bgmartin@...>
      >
      >> I'm very interested in growing food producing vines like grape, kiwi,
      >> Schisandra, cinnamon vine, Akebia and Hablitzia in fruit, nut or
      >> nitrogen fixing trees. I've been told that I shouldn't do this, but
      >> rather that I should build arbors so the plants don't compete. I'm
      >> guessing that Hablitzia, Schisandra and arctic kiwi will not overly
      >> compete with dwarf trees and can handle light shade. I've seen wild
      >> grapes growing beautifully in crabapples in the forest edges here in
      >> Maine (USA). Does anyone have specific examples of vine/tree
      >> combinations that have worked well? Any pictures or advice?
      >>
    • Norris Thomlinson
      ... Hi Michael, The literature and my experience suggest that D. batatas requires excavation to a depth of 2-3 to harvest the entire root. Do you have a way
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 30, 2009
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        On 11/30/09, Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...> wrote:
        > Dioscorea Batatas works well, -Dioscorea alata does not, --

        Hi Michael,

        The literature and my experience suggest that D. batatas requires excavation to a depth of 2-3' to harvest the entire root. Do you have a way to manage the root harvest without harming its host tree? Or should folks limit this combination to trees they don't mind harming?

        I've been growing D. batatas as I've read the Japanese do: in wooden or chicken wire cages with 2'+ of soil. At the end of the season I dismantle the enclosure and excavate the root from the side. I suppose I could build such an enclosure under a tree with high enough lowest branches, to use the tree as a trellis without mangling its roots at harvest time.

        Or if I wanted to grow D. batatas purely for its aerial tubers I could grow it in the ground and just leave the root alone.

        Any other thoughts or experiences with this combo?

        Norris Thomlinson
        Portland, OR

      • Michael Porter
        I don t recomend Dioscorea alata in trees --because it grows so big it smothers trees less then 60 feet tall, --the Dioscorea batatas is only 10 feet or so at
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2009
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          I don't recomend Dioscorea alata in trees --because it grows so big it smothers trees less then 60 feet tall, --the Dioscorea batatas is only 10 feet or so at the most and not too thick on top and trees are not much hurt by it, --  but right, the root is the edible part of both, --and the tubercles of D. batatas are good to eat also,   love them stir-fried, --
          Michael Porter
          North Florida USA

          --- On Mon, 11/30/09, matthew@... <matthew@...> wrote:

          From: matthew@... <matthew@...>
          Subject: Re: [pfaf] Growing vines in trees
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 6:52 PM

          Dioscorea alata certainly grows in trees. This is another herbaceous perennial, if you don't like it in the tree, just eat the root :)

          For best results, it does need a reasonably large tree, rather than a shrub.

          You should get aerial tubers, these may be bigger than a soft drink can.

          http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/carth.asp?species=Dioscorea%20alata&sref=443412
          This photo is not up a tree.

          I should be passing a big plant in a grove of trees today, I'll try to get a photo - only the tubers are visible as it is out of the growing season.

          Matt

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: michaels4gardens@...
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 11/30/09 6:37 PM
          Subject: Re: [pfaf] Growing vines in trees

          Dioscorea Batatas works well, -Dioscorea alata does not, --

          --- On Sun, 11/29/09, hydrochar  wrote:


          From: hydrochar
          Subject: [pfaf] Growing vines in trees
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 8:31 AM


           



          I'm very interested in growing food producing vines like grape, kiwi, Schisandra, cinnamon vine, Akebia and Hablitzia in fruit, nut or nitrogen fixing trees. I've been told that I shouldn't do this, but rather that I should build arbors so the plants don't compete. I'm guessing that Hablitzia, Schisandra and arctic kiwi will not overly compete with dwarf trees and can handle light shade. I've seen wild grapes growing beautifully in crabapples in the forest edges here in Maine (USA). Does anyone have specific examples of vine/tree combinations that have worked well? Any pictures or advice?








        • Stephen Barstow
          The great thing about Hablitzia is that it is in full growth long before the leaves spring out and can climb to 3-4m before mid-summer. In this way I think it
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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            The great thing about Hablitzia is that it is in full growth long before the leaves spring out and can climb to 3-4m before mid-summer. In this way I think it should grow well together with trees without being outcompeted. Nevertheless it does very much depend on your climate and local conditions as to how well this would work. In my garden I don’t have more than 20 cm deep soil over rock and I think it would have trouble competing with the water-hungry birch trees. Therefore, I’ve so far made a trench so that the birch roots cannot compete. I should try though…   It is one of the earliest plants to start growing in spring and if anything will work then it would be Hablitzia I think.

             

            Stephen (Norway)

             

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