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Siberian Pea Shrub (caragana arborescens)

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  • David
    Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite recipes using it?
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
      Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite recipes using it?

      Thanks, David
    • Ossi Kakko
      Hi, I m eating it cooked. Usually boil in two waters and just add a little bit of salt, or fermented marinade. I think it s one of the most delicious beans
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
        Hi,

        I'm eating it cooked. Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
        bit of salt, or fermented marinade. I think it's one of the most
        delicious beans just plain like that. I have not noticed any sort of
        reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to combine
        with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.

        I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
        Only sunny sides are worth of it. Then I keep the pods in big paper bags
        for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the bag
        will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
        through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the pods...
        Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
        attached still.

        - happy cooking

        Ossi Kakko,
        Finland




        > Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this
        > plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite recipes
        > using it?
        >
        > Thanks, David
        >
        >
      • david.keltie@gmail.com
        It grows in Finland? I was told it isn t frost hardy! Thanks, David
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
          It grows in Finland? I was told it isn't frost hardy!

          Thanks, David

          On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Ossi Kakko <ossi@...> wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > I'm eating it cooked.   Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
          > bit of salt, or fermented marinade.   I think it's one of the most
          > delicious beans just plain like that.  I have not noticed any sort of
          > reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to combine
          > with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.
          >
          > I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
          > Only sunny sides are worth of it.   Then I keep the pods in big paper bags
          > for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the bag
          > will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
          > through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the pods...
          > Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
          > attached still.
          >
          > - happy cooking
          >
          > Ossi Kakko,
          > Finland
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >> Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this
          >> plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite recipes
          >> using it?
          >>
          >> Thanks, David
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Ossi Kakko
          Yes. It wouldn t be a SIBERIAN pea shrub if it wasn t frost hardy. It can easily tolerate -30 (sometimes -40) celsius as I ve seen ... Btw. it seems to be a
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
            Yes. It wouldn't be a SIBERIAN pea shrub if it wasn't frost hardy.
            It can easily tolerate -30 (sometimes -40) celsius as I've seen ... Btw.
            it seems to be a good companion with apple tree as the pollinators can
            move directly from apple in the end of the bloom to the beginning bloom at
            pea shrub - and they look beautiful together.

            Ossi


            > It grows in Finland? I was told it isn't frost hardy!
            >
            > Thanks, David
            >
            > On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Ossi Kakko <ossi@...> wrote:
            >> Hi,
            >>
            >> I'm eating it cooked.   Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
            >> bit of salt, or fermented marinade.   I think it's one of the most
            >> delicious beans just plain like that.  I have not noticed any sort of
            >> reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to combine
            >> with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the
            >> winter.
            >>
            >> I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
            >> Only sunny sides are worth of it.   Then I keep the pods in big paper
            >> bags
            >> for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the bag
            >> will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
            >> through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the
            >> pods...
            >> Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
            >> attached still.
            >>
            >> - happy cooking
            >>
            >> Ossi Kakko,
            >> Finland
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>> Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this
            >>> plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite
            >>> recipes
            >>> using it?
            >>>
            >>> Thanks, David
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
          • Allmende Verden
            I´m eating often the seeds that have been dried after the harvest (in July?). Harvesting...hmm... We have about 40 shrubs. Each of them seems to be a little
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
              I´m eating often the seeds that have been dried after the harvest (in
              July?). Harvesting...hmm... We have about 40 shrubs. Each of them
              seems to be a little different (so I think they`re seedlings). But
              many have only about 4-6 seeds per pot. So harvesting takes it´s time.
              We pick the pots when some of them start to burst open. Then we dry
              them indoors. While drying they all burst open. In doing so the seeds
              are thrown out, partly quite far. That´s why it´s practically to put a
              sheet on top.
              After this seeds and pods can be divided by shaking it all in a
              bucket, where the heavier seeds tend to sink downwards and the a bit
              stinging pots can be skimed.

              As seeding seems to be a common way of propagation, I`ll try to find
              good individuals for vegetative reproduction. Good is gonna be: Heavy
              seed-weight per pod and good taste (the average seed doesn´t taste to
              good at ours). Does anybody here know a good variety?
              Greetings from Klaus

              Zitat von David <david.keltie@...>:

              > Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from
              > this plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour?
              > Favorite recipes using it?
              >
              > Thanks, David
              >
              >



              Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
              Artilleriestr. 6
              D-27283 Verden
              Tel (+49) 4231- 90 30 470
              Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
              http://www.allmende.de.vu
              Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
            • mIEKAL aND
              I don t know what caragana seeds look like over there but the one s I m growing here in the US are very very small. I like to chew on the pods while they are
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                I don't know what caragana seeds look like over there but the one's
                I'm growing here in the US are very very small. I like to chew on the
                pods while they are still green. I haven't trying cooking them at
                that stage. When russian friends visit they seem to really enjoy
                eating them that way.

                I wonder if there are large seeded varieties?

                ~mIEKAL

                z4b southwest Wisconsin


                On Nov 25, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Ossi Kakko wrote:

                > Hi,
                >
                > I'm eating it cooked. Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
                > bit of salt, or fermented marinade. I think it's one of the most
                > delicious beans just plain like that. I have not noticed any sort of
                > reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to
                > combine
                > with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the
                > winter.
                >
                > I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
                > Only sunny sides are worth of it. Then I keep the pods in big paper
                > bags
                > for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the
                > bag
                > will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
                > through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the
                > pods...
                > Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
                > attached still.
                >
                > - happy cooking
                >
                > Ossi Kakko,
                > Finland
                >
                > > Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from
                > this
                > > plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite
                > recipes
                > > using it?
                > >
                > > Thanks, David
                > >http://filevillage.info
                >
              • david.keltie@gmail.com
                fermented wild greens - which greens? how do you ferment them? Thanks, David
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                  "fermented wild greens" - which greens? how do you ferment them?

                  Thanks, David

                  > On Nov 25, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Ossi Kakko wrote:
                  >
                  >> Hi,
                  >>
                  >> I'm eating it cooked. Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
                  >> bit of salt, or fermented marinade. I think it's one of the most
                  >> delicious beans just plain like that. I have not noticed any sort of
                  >> reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to
                  >> combine
                  >> with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the
                  >> winter.
                  >>
                  >> I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
                  >> Only sunny sides are worth of it. Then I keep the pods in big paper
                  >> bags
                  >> for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the
                  >> bag
                  >> will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
                  >> through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the
                  >> pods...
                  >> Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
                  >> attached still.
                  >>
                  >> - happy cooking
                  >>
                  >> Ossi Kakko,
                  >> Finland
                  >>
                  >> > Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from
                  >> this
                  >> > plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite
                  >> recipes
                  >> > using it?
                  >> >
                  >> > Thanks, David
                  >> >http://filevillage.info
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Ossi Kakko
                  Caragana arborescens seeds around here after soaking are about the size of dry asian mung-bean (phaseolus aureus) ... Just perfect and I don t really get it
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                    Caragana arborescens seeds around here after soaking are about the size of
                    dry asian mung-bean (phaseolus aureus) ... Just perfect and I don't
                    really get it why in "edible forest gardens" those are considered better
                    off as a chicken feed . . . Very young green pods are great vegetables,
                    before they turn out too fibrous. I have no idea what they are like
                    elsewhere.

                    Ossi Kakko,
                    Finland


                    > I don't know what caragana seeds look like over there but the one's
                    > I'm growing here in the US are very very small. I like to chew on the
                    > pods while they are still green. I haven't trying cooking them at
                    > that stage. When russian friends visit they seem to really enjoy
                    > eating them that way.
                    >
                    > I wonder if there are large seeded varieties?
                    >
                    > ~mIEKAL
                    >
                    > z4b southwest Wisconsin
                    >
                    >
                    > On Nov 25, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Ossi Kakko wrote:
                    >
                    >> Hi,
                    >>
                    >> I'm eating it cooked. Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
                    >> bit of salt, or fermented marinade. I think it's one of the most
                    >> delicious beans just plain like that. I have not noticed any sort of
                    >> reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to
                    >> combinewith seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during
                    >> the winter.
                    >>
                    >> I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
                    >> Only sunny sides are worth of it. Then I keep the pods in big paper
                    >> bags for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking
                    >> the bag will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally
                    >> roll them through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds
                    >> from the pods...
                    >>
                    >> Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
                    >> attached still.
                    >>
                    >> - happy cooking
                    >>
                    >> Ossi Kakko,
                    >> Finland
                    >>
                    >> > Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from
                    >> > this plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite
                    >> > recipes using it?
                    >> >
                    >> > Thanks, David
                    >> >http://filevillage.info
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • ossi
                    Any edible greens. Basic idea of lactofermentation is to squeeze greens under their cell fluids, so the plant matter stays under the surface of water. If
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                      Any edible greens. Basic idea of lactofermentation is to squeeze greens
                      under their cell fluids, so the plant matter stays under the surface of
                      water. If veggies are dry (like many wild greens are) then additional
                      brine is needed. F.e. granite stone on top keeps it so... and then let
                      it ferment for two days in around +20 celsius and 10 days in around +16
                      celsius and three months in under 8 celsius.

                      I'm utilizing wide variety including nettles, fireweed, cow parsnips,
                      ground elder, dandelion, thistles, plantain, wild cabbages, flowers,
                      stems, stalks, roots etc... some years I had 40 different ones, as I don't
                      like growing greens under electric light during the winter.

                      Ossi


                      > "fermented wild greens" - which greens? how do you ferment them?
                      >
                      > Thanks, David
                      >
                      >>> Something to try is to combine caragana arborescensis with seeds of
                      >>> good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.
                    • Francesca Beamish
                      i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a couple to spare? thankyou.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 27, 2009
                        i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a couple to spare? thankyou.
                        Cesca Beamish
                        Leicester, UK

                        On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Ossi Kakko <ossi@...> wrote:
                         

                        Yes. It wouldn't be a SIBERIAN pea shrub if it wasn't frost hardy.
                        It can easily tolerate -30 (sometimes -40) celsius as I've seen ... Btw.
                        it seems to be a good companion with apple tree as the pollinators can
                        move directly from apple in the end of the bloom to the beginning bloom at
                        pea shrub - and they look beautiful together.

                        Ossi



                        > It grows in Finland? I was told it isn't frost hardy!
                        >
                        > Thanks, David
                        >
                        > On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Ossi Kakko <ossi@...> wrote:
                        >> Hi,
                        >>
                        >> I'm eating it cooked.   Usually boil in two waters and just add a little
                        >> bit of salt, or fermented marinade.   I think it's one of the most
                        >> delicious beans just plain like that.  I have not noticed any sort of
                        >> reason why those should not be eaten ... Something to try is to combine
                        >> with seeds of good king henry and fermented wild greens during the
                        >> winter.
                        >>
                        >> I harvest pods before they crack open by picking them from the shurb.
                        >> Only sunny sides are worth of it.   Then I keep the pods in big paper
                        >> bags
                        >> for some time in room temperature as they crack open... shaking the bag
                        >> will make most of the seeds go to the bottom... and finally roll them
                        >> through a sloping even-tempered surface to separate seeds from the
                        >> pods...
                        >> Another round after crushing the remaining pods, as some seeds stay
                        >> attached still.
                        >>
                        >> - happy cooking
                        >>
                        >> Ossi Kakko,
                        >> Finland
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> Anyone on the list actually cooked and eaten any seeds/pods from this
                        >>> plant? If so, how easy is it to harvest? Taste/flavour? Favorite
                        >>> recipes
                        >>> using it?
                        >>>
                        >>> Thanks, David
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >




                        --
                        Cesca Beamish
                        Corner Plot
                      • Thomas J Shelley
                        ... Dear PFAF Friends--I found them difficult to germinate as well. In started 100 Siberian Pea Shrub seeds last spring and not a single germination. I think
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 27, 2009
                          > i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to
                          > germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a couple to
                          > spare? thankyou.
                          > Cesca Beamish
                          > Leicester, UK

                          Dear PFAF Friends--I found them difficult to germinate as well. In
                          started 100 Siberian Pea Shrub seeds last spring and not a single
                          germination. I think I had the flat too cool--I think they need warmth to
                          germinate, even though they are native to the far North. I wanted to
                          raise them, ultimately, for chicken feed. I'll try again another year.
                          Tom Shelley in Ithaca, Upstate New York.
                        • Thomas J Shelley
                          ... Dear Friends--I think the seeds are always fairly small and I would think very labor intensive to harvest on a large scale? Does anyone have experience on
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 27, 2009
                            > I don't know what caragana seeds look like over there but the one's
                            > I'm growing here in the US are very very small. I like to chew on the
                            > pods while they are still green. I haven't trying cooking them at
                            > that stage. When russian friends visit they seem to really enjoy
                            > eating them that way.
                            >
                            > I wonder if there are large seeded varieties?

                            Dear Friends--I think the seeds are always fairly small and I would think
                            very labor intensive to harvest on a large scale? Does anyone have
                            experience on harvesting techniques for caragana seeds? Thanks. Tom
                            Shelley in Ithaca, Upstate New York
                          • Geir Flatabø
                            Hard dry Leguminous seeds could be put in hot, up to 100C deg water to take them out of hiberneting. They will then sprout within 2- 5 days like peas and
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                              Hard dry Leguminous seeds could be put in hot, up to 100C deg water to take them out of hiberneting.
                              They will then sprout within 2- 5 days like peas and beans...

                              Geir Flatabø

                              2009/11/28 Thomas J Shelley <tjs1@...>
                              > i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to
                              > germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a couple to
                              > spare? thankyou.
                              > Cesca Beamish
                              > Leicester, UK

                              Dear PFAF Friends--I found them difficult to germinate as well.  In
                              started 100 Siberian Pea Shrub seeds last spring and not a single
                              germination.  I think I had the flat too cool--I think they need warmth to
                              germinate, even though they are native to the far North.   I wanted to
                              raise them, ultimately, for chicken feed.  I'll try again another year.
                              Tom Shelley in Ithaca, Upstate New York.



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                            • mIEKAL aND
                              I ve had excellent germination two different ways. Typical cold stratification in the fridge for 3 months. Didn t do a germination test but I m pretty sure I
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                I've had excellent germination two different ways. Typical cold
                                stratification in the fridge for 3 months. Didn't do a germination
                                test but I'm pretty sure I get over 50%. I've also potted up seeds
                                straight off the trees in early Sept & put them in the greenhouse &
                                they germinated in under a month. Not really a good way to do it tho
                                cuz you have very young plants that haven't had a chance to grow
                                before they go dormant.

                                Speaking of caragana, I heard an interesting use of them from some
                                permie friends in the area. When planting fruit trees, they combine a
                                peashrub in the same hole as a fruit tree. I haven't seen what this
                                setup looks like when mature tho, wondering if the peashrub would make
                                it harder to get at the fruit.

                                ~mIEKAL


                                On Nov 27, 2009, at 6:55 PM, Thomas J Shelley wrote:

                                > > i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to
                                > > germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a
                                > couple to
                                > > spare? thankyou.
                                > > Cesca Beamish
                                > > Leicester, UK
                                >
                                > Dear PFAF Friends--I found them difficult to germinate as well. In
                                > started 100 Siberian Pea Shrub seeds last spring and not a single
                                > germination. I think I had the flat too cool--I think they need
                                > warmth to
                                > germinate, even though they are native to the far North. I wanted to
                                > raise them, ultimately, for chicken feed. I'll try again another year.
                                > Tom Shelley in Ithaca, Upstate New York.
                                >
                              • Gail Lloyd
                                Fermenting with some whey (the clear liquid that drains out of plain yogurt when you put yogurt in a coffee filter or other filter) is a good way to ferment
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                  Fermenting with some whey (the clear liquid that drains out of plain yogurt when you put yogurt in a coffee filter or other filter) is a good way to ferment veggies of any kind.  You can find more info in the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.
                                  Kimchee is a pickled cabbage that is a good example of fermented veggies, also. 
                                  Gail
                                  --- On Thu, 11/26/09, ossi <ossi@...> wrote:

                                  From: ossi <ossi@...>
                                  Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                  To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 4:24 PM

                                   
                                  Any edible greens. Basic idea of lactofermentation is to squeeze greens
                                  under their cell fluids, so the plant matter stays under the surface of
                                  water. If veggies are dry (like many wild greens are) then additional
                                  brine is needed. F.e. granite stone on top keeps it so... and then let
                                  it ferment for two days in around +20 celsius and 10 days in around +16
                                  celsius and three months in under 8 celsius.

                                  I'm utilizing wide variety including nettles, fireweed, cow parsnips,
                                  ground elder, dandelion, thistles, plantain, wild cabbages, flowers,
                                  stems, stalks, roots etc... some years I had 40 different ones, as I don't
                                  like growing greens under electric light during the winter.

                                  Ossi

                                  > "fermented wild greens" - which greens? how do you ferment them?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks, David
                                  >
                                  >>> Something to try is to combine caragana arborescensis with seeds of
                                  >>> good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.


                                • Thomas J Shelley
                                  ... Dear Geir and Friends--I did this with my seeds, as directed by the seller. I thought this would promote fairly easy germination as well, but I must have
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                    > Hard dry Leguminous seeds could be put in hot, up to 100C deg water to
                                    > take
                                    > them out of hiberneting.
                                    > They will then sprout within 2- 5 days like peas and beans...

                                    Dear Geir and Friends--I did this with my seeds, as directed by the
                                    seller. I thought this would promote fairly easy germination as well, but
                                    I must have done something else wrong as I still had no seeds sprout.
                                    That's why I thought the flat was too cold for germination. Tom in
                                    Ithaca, New York
                                  • Anna Janek
                                    I make Kombucha which is fermented tea, if anybody would like to get it I can sent it. Anna ________________________________ From: Gail Lloyd
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                      I make Kombucha which is fermented tea, if anybody would like to get it I can sent it.
                                       
                                      Anna


                                      From: Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...>
                                      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, November 28, 2009 9:54:07 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?

                                       

                                      Fermenting with some whey (the clear liquid that drains out of plain yogurt when you put yogurt in a coffee filter or other filter) is a good way to ferment veggies of any kind.  You can find more info in the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.
                                      Kimchee is a pickled cabbage that is a good example of fermented veggies, also. 
                                      Gail
                                      --- On Thu, 11/26/09, ossi <ossi@...> wrote:

                                      From: ossi <ossi@...>
                                      Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                      To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                      Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 4:24 PM

                                       
                                      Any edible greens. Basic idea of lactofermentation is to squeeze greens
                                      under their cell fluids, so the plant matter stays under the surface of
                                      water. If veggies are dry (like many wild greens are) then additional
                                      brine is needed. F.e. granite stone on top keeps it so... and then let
                                      it ferment for two days in around +20 celsius and 10 days in around +16
                                      celsius and three months in under 8 celsius.

                                      I'm utilizing wide variety including nettles, fireweed, cow parsnips,
                                      ground elder, dandelion, thistles, plantain, wild cabbages, flowers,
                                      stems, stalks, roots etc... some years I had 40 different ones, as I don't
                                      like growing greens under electric light during the winter.

                                      Ossi

                                      > "fermented wild greens" - which greens? how do you ferment them?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks, David
                                      >
                                      >>> Something to try is to combine caragana arborescensis with seeds of
                                      >>> good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.



                                    • ossi
                                      Dear all, Vegetables, grains and milks all have different types of lactobacillus strains, from which vegetables are the strongest. I have never used any
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                        Dear all,

                                        Vegetables, grains and milks all have different types of lactobacillus
                                        strains, from which vegetables are the strongest. I have never used any
                                        animal milk products for fermentations as it's totally unnecessary.
                                        However, any of the three types can do it for the beginning... Rather
                                        use sprouted grains if there's a big need for fermented liquid. Green
                                        leaves gathered after two-three sunny days after rain are loaded with good
                                        bacteria, like f.e. black currant leaves or any near ground vegetable.

                                        happy fermentation,

                                        ossi

                                        ps. See also: http://www.wildfermentation.com/resources.php?page=vegetables

                                        > Fermenting with some whey (the clear liquid that drains out of plain
                                        > yogurt when you put yogurt in a coffee filter or other filter) is a good
                                        > way to ferment veggies of any kind.  You can find more info in the book
                                        > Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.
                                        > Kimchee is a pickled cabbage that is a good example of fermented veggies,
                                        > also. 
                                        > Gail
                                        > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, ossi <ossi@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: ossi <ossi@...>
                                        > Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 4:24 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Any edible greens. Basic idea of lactofermentation is to squeeze greens
                                        > under their cell fluids, so the plant matter stays under the surface of
                                        > water. If veggies are dry (like many wild greens are) then additional
                                        > brine is needed. F.e. granite stone on top keeps it so... and then let
                                        > it ferment for two days in around +20 celsius and 10 days in around +16
                                        > celsius and three months in under 8 celsius.
                                        >
                                        > I'm utilizing wide variety including nettles, fireweed, cow parsnips,
                                        > ground elder, dandelion, thistles, plantain, wild cabbages, flowers,
                                        > stems, stalks, roots etc... some years I had 40 different ones, as I don't
                                        > like growing greens under electric light during the winter.
                                        >
                                        > Ossi
                                        >
                                        >> "fermented wild greens" - which greens? how do you ferment them?
                                        >>
                                        >> Thanks, David
                                        >>
                                        >>>> Something to try is to combine caragana arborescensis with seeds of
                                        >>>> good king henry and fermented wild greens during the winter.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • newmoonherbs2000
                                        Greetings from another lurker, My experience germinating Caragana seeds is that they need cold treatment. The best option is to plant them outside somewhere
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 28, 2009
                                          Greetings from another lurker,

                                          My experience germinating Caragana seeds is that they need cold treatment. The best option is to plant them outside somewhere (cold frame) in the Fall and leave them out there all winter. Mine germinated very well the following spring. If you live in a milder climate without frost, they may germinate this way but you could also put the planted pots/trays in the freezer for a couple of months. Now that I have mature flowering trees I have seeds from them sprouting everywhere each year.

                                          Regards,
                                          Susan

                                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas J Shelley" <tjs1@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > i bought some siberian tree shrub seeds a few years ago and tried to
                                          > > germinate them but with no success. please does anyone have a couple to
                                          > > spare? thankyou.
                                          > > Cesca Beamish
                                          > > Leicester, UK
                                          >
                                          > Dear PFAF Friends--I found them difficult to germinate as well. In
                                          > started 100 Siberian Pea Shrub seeds last spring and not a single
                                          > germination. I think I had the flat too cool--I think they need warmth to
                                          > germinate, even though they are native to the far North. I wanted to
                                          > raise them, ultimately, for chicken feed. I'll try again another year.
                                          > Tom Shelley in Ithaca, Upstate New York.
                                          >
                                        • Sam Norris
                                          Another excellent book is Preserving Food Without Canning or Freezing.  - Sam Another excellent book is Preserving Food Without Canning or Freezing. - Sam
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 29, 2009
                                            Another excellent book is Preserving Food Without Canning or Freezing.  - Sam

                                          • newmoonherbs2000
                                            Hi Tom, I ve found that a hot, in fact boiling, water soak works well for Honey Locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) seeds (also a legume) but Caragana needs cold
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 29, 2009
                                              Hi Tom,

                                              I've found that a hot, in fact boiling, water soak works well for Honey Locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) seeds (also a legume) but Caragana needs cold treatment.

                                              Regards,
                                              Susan

                                              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas J Shelley" <tjs1@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Hard dry Leguminous seeds could be put in hot, up to 100C deg water to
                                              > > take
                                              > > them out of hiberneting.
                                              > > They will then sprout within 2- 5 days like peas and beans...
                                              >
                                              > Dear Geir and Friends--I did this with my seeds, as directed by the
                                              > seller. I thought this would promote fairly easy germination as well, but
                                              > I must have done something else wrong as I still had no seeds sprout.
                                              > That's why I thought the flat was too cold for germination. Tom in
                                              > Ithaca, New York
                                              >
                                            • Laury Carter
                                              Thank you all so much for this interesting discussion! I have been making kimchee for years, thanks to having the pleasure of hosting S. Korean students, but I
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 29, 2009
                                                Thank you all so much for this interesting discussion! I have been making
                                                kimchee for years, thanks to having the pleasure of hosting S. Korean
                                                students, but I thought the fermentation was related to the cabbage and bok
                                                choy only.

                                                Clearly I didn't think very hard! btw, I find that sea salt works well but
                                                iodized salt leaves a bitter taste.

                                                I am looking forward to using this new info.

                                                Thanks!
                                                Laury
                                              • Gail Lloyd
                                                The reason I use whey (from yogurt) to ferment is that it has probiotics, which I think is advantageous if the recipe calls for that type of fermentation. 
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Dec 3, 2009
                                                  The reason I use whey (from yogurt) to ferment is that it has probiotics, which I think is advantageous if the recipe calls for that type of fermentation.  Any veggie can be used.  You can use goat yogurt, too, which I think is better than cow yogurt.  Yogurt is easy to make...just bring 4 c milk (goat or cow) almost to boil, take off heat & put in glass bowl & cover w/ towel for 50 minutes, then mix in 2 T plain yogurt mixed with 2 T milk & add to your cooled milk.  Store in a thermos that is covered with a folded towel or washcloth & let sit about 8-10 hours or until thickened, then refrigerate.
                                                  Gail

                                                  --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Laury Carter <claury@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Laury Carter <claury@...>
                                                  Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                                  To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 12:39 PM

                                                   
                                                  Thank you all so much for this interesting discussion! I have been making
                                                  kimchee for years, thanks to having the pleasure of hosting S. Korean
                                                  students, but I thought the fermentation was related to the cabbage and bok
                                                  choy only.

                                                  Clearly I didn't think very hard! btw, I find that sea salt works well but
                                                  iodized salt leaves a bitter taste.

                                                  I am looking forward to using this new info.

                                                  Thanks!
                                                  Laury


                                                • Geir Flatabø
                                                  In literature of what eskimos and Lappish people have been eating.......... fermenting wild greens like Rhodiola , Cochlearia and Angelica are mentioned in
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Dec 3, 2009
                                                    In literature of what eskimos and Lappish people  have been eating..........
                                                    fermenting wild greens like Rhodiola , Cochlearia and Angelica  are mentioned in reindeer or seal stomachs with reindeer milk... (Porsild ?).
                                                     
                                                    Geir Flatabø

                                                    2009/12/4 Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...>


                                                    The reason I use whey (from yogurt) to ferment is that it has probiotics, which I think is advantageous if the recipe calls for that type of fermentation.  Any veggie can be used.  You can use goat yogurt, too, which I think is better than cow yogurt.  Yogurt is easy to make...just bring 4 c milk (goat or cow) almost to boil, take off heat & put in glass bowl & cover w/ towel for 50 minutes, then mix in 2 T plain yogurt mixed with 2 T milk & add to your cooled milk.  Store in a thermos that is covered with a folded towel or washcloth & let sit about 8-10 hours or until thickened, then refrigerate.
                                                    Gail

                                                    --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Laury Carter <claury@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Laury Carter <claury@...>
                                                    Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                                    To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 12:39 PM

                                                     
                                                    Thank you all so much for this interesting discussion! I have been making
                                                    kimchee for years, thanks to having the pleasure of hosting S. Korean
                                                    students, but I thought the fermentation was related to the cabbage and bok
                                                    choy only.

                                                    Clearly I didn't think very hard! btw, I find that sea salt works well but
                                                    iodized salt leaves a bitter taste.

                                                    I am looking forward to using this new info.

                                                    Thanks!
                                                    Laury





                                                  • Ossi Kakko
                                                    Yes, and eastern finnish shifting cultivators used to ferment at least Urtica dioicea, Cirsium heterophyllum, C. Arvense and Heracleum sibiricum just the way
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Dec 4, 2009
                                                      Yes, and eastern finnish shifting cultivators used to ferment at least
                                                      Urtica dioicea, Cirsium heterophyllum, C. Arvense and Heracleum sibiricum
                                                      just the way like the cherokee or nepalese - without milk - just the
                                                      veggies - and they're even more full of probiotics too ...

                                                      Ossi Kakko


                                                      > In literature of what eskimos and Lappish people have been
                                                      > eating.......... fermenting wild greens like Rhodiola , Cochlearia and
                                                      > Angelica are mentioned in reindeer or seal stomachs with reindeer
                                                      > milk... (Porsild ?).
                                                      >
                                                      > Geir Flatabø
                                                      >
                                                      > 2009/12/4 Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...>
                                                      >
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> The reason I use whey (from yogurt) to ferment is that it has
                                                      >> probiotics, which I think is advantageous if the recipe calls for that
                                                      >> type
                                                      >> of fermentation. Any veggie can be used. You can use goat yogurt, too,
                                                      >> which I think is better than cow yogurt. Yogurt is easy to make...just
                                                      >> bring 4 c milk (goat or cow) almost to boil, take off heat & put in
                                                      >> glass
                                                      >> bowl & cover w/ towel for 50 minutes, then mix in 2 T plain yogurt mixed
                                                      >> with 2 T milk & add to your cooled milk. Store in a thermos that is
                                                      >> covered
                                                      >> with a folded towel or washcloth & let sit about 8-10 hours or until
                                                      >> thickened, then refrigerate.
                                                      >> Gail
                                                      >>
                                                      >> --- On *Sun, 11/29/09, Laury Carter <claury@...>* wrote:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> From: Laury Carter <claury@...>
                                                      >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: fermented wild greens ?
                                                      >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 12:39 PM
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Thank you all so much for this interesting discussion! I have been
                                                      >> making
                                                      >> kimchee for years, thanks to having the pleasure of hosting S. Korean
                                                      >> students, but I thought the fermentation was related to the cabbage and
                                                      >> bok
                                                      >>
                                                      >> choy only.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Clearly I didn't think very hard! btw, I find that sea salt works well
                                                      >> but
                                                      >> iodized salt leaves a bitter taste.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> I am looking forward to using this new info.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Thanks!
                                                      >> Laury
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
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