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Re: [pfaf] Digest Number 230

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  • Bob Ewing
    ... I am very interested in the new compendium of plants and ritual use. What a great pity that the speech was delivered by one who said: The thread running
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 24, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- Carrie Thomas <carrie.thomas@...> wrote:

      ---------------------------------
      I am very interested in the new compendium of plants
      and ritual use.

      What a great pity that the speech was delivered by one
      who said:

      "The thread running through this compendium is
      man's innate fear of losing his grip on his own
      environment and his
      consequent escape into a world of ill-conceived
      spiritual and
      magical powers."

      Carrie that does match my sense of things as well,
      although in curiosity what did he mean by
      ill-conceived. was he attacking all spiritual
      endeavours?

      My own thoughts lie more aligned with a realm of
      spiritual mysteries,
      thinking that perhaps today we 'escape into a world of
      ill-concieved
      materialism and consumerism' rather than feeling our
      spiritual selves!!!

      Anyone else have any comment?

      -Carrie-


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 6:27 PM
      Subject: [pfaf] Digest Number 230



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      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

      There are 2 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still
      have any point?
      From: "jahopley" <j.a.hopley@...>
      2. Fw: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the
      Roundhouse be pulled
      down?!?
      From: "Graham Burnett"
      <grahamburnett@...>


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:54:48 -0000
      From: "jahopley" <j.a.hopley@...>
      Subject: Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still
      have any point?

      Dear PFAF group members,

      I have attached, below, a copy of the speech given by
      Prof. Marcel
      De Cleene (co-author) at the recent UK launch of the
      'Compendium of
      Symbolic and Ritual Plants in Europe', which I hope
      you will find of
      interest.

      This extraordinary publication is a unique reference
      source
      containing more than 1500 pages in two volumes,
      covering the ritual
      use of trees, shrubs and herbs throughout Europe. I
      hope this text
      whets your appetite and you wish to delve further. I
      have included a
      link to the Compendium web site, where an order form
      can be found.

      Speech:
      Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still have any
      point?
      Marcel DE CLEENE

      It is a great honour and a true privilege to be here
      at this
      fascinating historical Physic Garden. The Garden was
      founded in 1673
      by the Worshipful Society of the Apothecaries of
      London to allow
      medical students to study the plants then used in
      healing. Hence the
      name `physic', the old term for the art of healing.
      One of the
      Garden's present aims is to demonstrate to all its
      visitors the
      numerous uses of plants, including those in medicine.
      We are
      therefore delighted to be able to launch the
      Compendium of Symbolic
      and Ritual Plants in Europe in this remarkable
      location. This
      Compendium deals with popular medicine, magical
      healing and many
      other common beliefs, plant legends and agricultural
      and industrial
      uses. And of course, as the title suggests, it deals
      with plant
      rituals, plant myths and plant symbolism.

      What do we mean by ritual plants? The concept of
      ritual plants
      covers all those trees, shrubs and herbs that have
      played or still
      play a part in man's religious life. Western man is
      probably
      baffled by this use of plants in religion, as he is no
      longer aware
      of the crucial part Nature played in pre-Christian
      religions.
      Nonetheless, the ancient magical reputation of such
      plants still
      lingers on in present-day popular beliefs and
      medicine, in
      traditions, and even in certain common expressions.
      However, we
      hardly ever give this a moment's thought, as we are no
      longer aware
      of its origin.

      - Why do red roses symbolise passionate love?
      - Why are the ceilings of old houses decorated with
      plaster roses?
      - Why is it that, in Western Europe, twigs of willow,
      yew, holly, or
      box are consecrated on Palm Sunday and taken home to
      protect the
      house and stables?
      - Why was a wreath of Rosemary laid before the altar
      at the memorial
      service for the 1987 `Herald of Free
      Enterprise'disaster at
      Zeebrugge in Belgium?
      - Why do we still use sticks to knock walnuts off
      trees?
      - What is the significance of Poppy capsules on a
      grave?
      - Why did Princess Anne's wedding bouquet include a
      sprig of Myrtle?
      - Why is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
      portrayed as an
      Apple Tree in Western iconography, and as a Fig Tree
      in Greek-
      Orthodox iconography?
      - Why is incense burned in churches?
      - Why is a maypole set up at the beginning of May?
      - Why do we say `touch wood', and knock on `wood'?
      - Why do we hang garments of invalids and the ill on a
      rag tree?
      - Why are war memorials decorated with laurel wreaths?
      - Why are grains of Rice thrown at weddings?
      - Why are the Mandrake plant and its fruits so popular
      in European
      folk belief and medicine?

      Numerous other examples of present-day plant rituals
      and symbolism
      can be linked with old heathen beliefs, in which
      Nature played a
      central role. Ancient peoples saw life differently.
      They sought
      emotional stability and a feeling of security in their
      profound
      respect for nature and the gods and spirits connected
      with it. They
      offered sacrifices to trees, springs, stones and
      rivers. They
      attached great importance to mythological stories and
      their
      associated natural symbolism. In all their fear and
      misery it gave
      them the sense that they had a greater say in those
      things that
      were `beyond words', and their feelings were certainly
      reflected in a wide variety of stories or beliefs.
      Nowadays many
      believe that symbols belong to a long-vanished world
      of ancient
      peoples, or to certain so-called `primitive' tribes
      that have
      survived until the present day, but that they no
      longer have the
      slightest relevance to that rational and complex
      species, the modern
      human being. The fertility rites of Neolithic and
      present-day
      Melanesian man are seen as nothing more than archaic
      superstition.
      People no longer see any link between the myths of the
      Ancient
      Greeks or the folk-tales of the American Indians and
      their own
      behaviour and reactions to the `heroes' of our own
      age. And yet
      there definitely is a connection.

      It is unfortunate that modern man is so little aware
      of the
      transcendent value of primeval symbols, which so many
      people have
      for centuries understood to be a source of wisdom.
      Symbols represent
      this connection and see to it that man's great
      universal myths
      and rituals continue to be handed down. They still
      bear a message
      that is relevant to the hectic life of modern,
      supposedly
      `rational' man.

      Symbols can bring greater restfulness, stability and
      harmony, since
      they offer us an insight into the immutable underlying
      values of
      everyday reality.

      The great virtue of such eminent academics as the
      religious
      historians Eug�ne Goblet d'Alviella (1845-1925), Sir
      James
      Frazer (1854-1941), Joseph Campbell (1904-1987) and
      Mircea Eliade
      (1907-1986) lay in their collection of universal myths
      and symbols,
      reassessing them and making them acceptable as objects
      of academic
      study. The Swiss psychoanalyst Carl Jung (1875-1961)
      considered that
      the fundamental issues of mankind have remained
      unchanged over time,
      and that the subconscious plays an essential part in
      dreams,
      fantasies and myths. He regarded symbols and myths as
      the bridges
      that return man to the primal unity: the Earthly
      Paradise, the Lost
      Word, the Elysian Fields, Avalon and so on. Symbols
      and myths make
      people aware that they live in a fundamental duality,
      taking the
      form of good & evil, man & woman, life & death, finite
      & infinite,
      and so on.

      In themselves they have no magical powers of
      expression. It is the
      contemplation and understanding of symbols and myths
      that give man
      greater insight. Everyone works in their own way and
      at their own
      pace. They do so in the solitude of their deepest
      self, yet with no
      feeling of exclusion, since they can count on the
      warmth and
      tenderness of their fellow beings, and on rituals and
      symbols that
      generate a feeling of solidarity. This feeling is of
      tremendous
      value to modern man, who no longer experiences the
      doubts and
      uncertainties of the past, but now faces other, more
      existential
      questions.

      We therefore believe that psychologists and
      sociologists would, more
      than ever, benefit from a close study of ancient
      rituals and their
      symbols, as they have a fascinating story to tell
      about man's
      innermost feelings, a story which man himself would
      probably never
      be able or dare to tell.

      In the way it deals with ancient and modern plant
      symbolism, myths
      and rituals as they are known in Europe, in the
      attention it pays to
      legends, to folk beliefs, to magical healing, to
      popular medicine,
      and the many other uses of ritual plants, the
      Compendium does not
      claim to be complete. It covers a range of academic
      disciplines,
      each of which is in itself extremely broad and
      sometimes less
      accessible or even obscure. In addition, there are
      still a great
      many missing links.

      However, we have tried to provide an academically
      sound survey of
      the current knowledge of ritual plants down the
      centuries, seen in a
      broad perspective but also with a critical look at the
      accuracy of
      the naming of plant species mentioned in literature.
      We have
      attempted to present all this in comprehensible
      language, and have
      added about 12,000 references for those who wish to
      explore the
      field further. The thread running through this
      compendium is
      man's innate fear of losing his grip on his own
      environment and his
      consequent escape into a world of ill-conceived
      spiritual and
      magical powers. This fear probably always existed, but
      it can now be
      clearly felt in these turbulent and uncertain
      transitional times.

      Moreover, at a time of major environmental pollution,
      it is
      appropriate to reflect on the age-old bond between man
      and nature,
      and the plant kingdom in particular, and to recognise
      its deeper
      symbolism. The major motivation for the publication of
      this
      Compendium is the hope that this understanding may in
      some way
      contribute to a recovery of Man's lost harmony with
      Nature.

      (Chelsea Physic Garden, Oct 23 2003)

      Link to Compendium web site:
      http://www.smk.be/compendium
      Further information can be obtained from Alpha
      Publishing in the UK,
      at info@..., tel: 01293 881166



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:52:08 -0000
      From: "Graham Burnett"
      <grahamburnett@...>
      Subject: Fw: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the
      Roundhouse be pulled
      down?!?


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <tony@...>
      To: <ecovillageuk@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 4:48 PM
      Subject: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the
      Roundhouse be pulled down?!?


      >
      > From
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/environment/programmes/countryfile
      >
      >
      > "The 'lost tribe' of Wales
      >
      > Brithdir Mawr in Pembrokeshire, West Wales is home
      to a small
      > community who have rejected many of the trappings of
      modern day life
      > in favour of living off the land and relying on
      natural resources.
      > For years the community lived in isolation on a
      165-acre site of
      > farm and woodland. That was until they were spotted
      by a survey
      > plane and became known as the 'lost tribe' of Wales.
      >
      > John Craven meets members of the Brithdir Mawr
      community and finds
      > out about their their aim to become self-sufficient.
      Meanwhile
      > Michaela Strachan learns how the community coppice
      their wood and
      > meets a woman who has opted for a spartan life in a
      straw hut.
      >
      > Since the village was first noticed in 1998,
      Pembrokeshire Coast
      > National Park has insisted the community's turf
      roofed roundhouse be
      > pulled down. The eco-villagers say it's in harmony
      with the local
      > environment but the park authority argue it was
      built without
      > permission and contravenes strict planning
      regulations.
      >
      > Give your views on the future of the Brithdir Mawr
      roundhouse in a
      > phone vote:
      >
      > If you think the house should be ALLOWED, call 0900
      1 800 311.
      >
      > If you think the house should be DEMOLISHED, call
      0900 1 800 322.
      >
      > Calls cost 10p and the lines are open until noon on
      Monday 24
      > November. Results in the 30 November show."
      >
      >
      > Have a look at this link www.brithdirmawr.com loads
      of info on the
      > community, including photos.
      > I don't know why the authorities are so frightened
      of this way of
      > life - the homes are far less destructive to the
      environment than
      > conventional ones and isn't that what the
      authorities say they want
      > these days, sustainable development? Maybe there's
      not enough money
      > to be made.
      > I don't suppose for one moment these communitites
      would get planning
      > permission if they applied in the usual way, before
      building, so
      > this appears to be the only way they can do it.
      Other communities
      > have eventually got planning permission for their
      homes, and maybe
      > this one can be saved too if there's enough public
      support for it.
      > I don't know what else we can do yet except make
      that phone call -
      > hopefully they'll take notice of the result, but as
      the lines are
      > only open till tomorrow lunchtime (Monday) there's
      not much time.
      > Please feel free to post this elsewhere (if I've not
      got there
      > first - I'll be doing the rounds before getting back
      to me sickbed!)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Diggers350 - an e-mail discussion/information-share
      list for campaigners
      > involved with THE LAND IS OURS landrights network
      (based in the UK ..web
      > ref. www.thelandisours.org). The list was originally
      concerned with the
      > 350th anniversary of The Diggers (& still is
      concerned with their
      history).
      > The Diggers appeared at the end of the English Civil
      war with a mission to
      > make the earth 'a common treasury for all'. In the
      spring of 1999 there
      > were celebrations to remember the Diggers vision and
      their contribution.
      > Find out more about the Diggers and see
      illustrations at:
      > http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/diggers.htm
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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      >
      >
      >
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      http://www.urbanpermaculture.net

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    • Peter Knop
      Carrie, perhaps he meant by ill-conceived , poorly understood . The tone of the rest of his speach clearly suggests that he did not mean to use the words
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 25, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Carrie, perhaps he meant by "ill-conceived", "poorly understood". The tone
        of the rest of his speach clearly suggests that he did not mean to use the
        words "ill-conceived" in the way they appear to have been used.
        Peter, Clean Earth Foundation, USA
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Carrie Thomas" <carrie.thomas@...>
        To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 4:55 PM
        Subject: Re: [pfaf] Digest Number 230


        > I am very interested in the new compendium of plants and ritual use.
        >
        > What a great pity that the speech was delivered by one who said:
        >
        > "The thread running through this compendium is
        > man's innate fear of losing his grip on his own environment and his
        > consequent escape into a world of ill-conceived spiritual and
        > magical powers."
        >
        > My own thoughts lie more aligned with a realm of spiritual mysteries,
        > thinking that perhaps today we 'escape into a world of ill-concieved
        > materialism and consumerism' rather than feeling our spiritual selves!!!
        >
        > Anyone else have any comment?
        >
        > -Carrie-
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
        > To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 6:27 PM
        > Subject: [pfaf] Digest Number 230
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > pfaf-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > There are 2 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1. Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still have any point?
        > From: "jahopley" <j.a.hopley@...>
        > 2. Fw: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the Roundhouse be pulled
        > down?!?
        > From: "Graham Burnett" <grahamburnett@...>
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:54:48 -0000
        > From: "jahopley" <j.a.hopley@...>
        > Subject: Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still have any point?
        >
        > Dear PFAF group members,
        >
        > I have attached, below, a copy of the speech given by Prof. Marcel
        > De Cleene (co-author) at the recent UK launch of the 'Compendium of
        > Symbolic and Ritual Plants in Europe', which I hope you will find of
        > interest.
        >
        > This extraordinary publication is a unique reference source
        > containing more than 1500 pages in two volumes, covering the ritual
        > use of trees, shrubs and herbs throughout Europe. I hope this text
        > whets your appetite and you wish to delve further. I have included a
        > link to the Compendium web site, where an order form can be found.
        >
        > Speech:
        > Do plant symbols, myths and rituals still have any point?
        > Marcel DE CLEENE
        >
        > It is a great honour and a true privilege to be here at this
        > fascinating historical Physic Garden. The Garden was founded in 1673
        > by the Worshipful Society of the Apothecaries of London to allow
        > medical students to study the plants then used in healing. Hence the
        > name `physic', the old term for the art of healing. One of the
        > Garden's present aims is to demonstrate to all its visitors the
        > numerous uses of plants, including those in medicine. We are
        > therefore delighted to be able to launch the Compendium of Symbolic
        > and Ritual Plants in Europe in this remarkable location. This
        > Compendium deals with popular medicine, magical healing and many
        > other common beliefs, plant legends and agricultural and industrial
        > uses. And of course, as the title suggests, it deals with plant
        > rituals, plant myths and plant symbolism.
        >
        > What do we mean by ritual plants? The concept of ritual plants
        > covers all those trees, shrubs and herbs that have played or still
        > play a part in man's religious life. Western man is probably
        > baffled by this use of plants in religion, as he is no longer aware
        > of the crucial part Nature played in pre-Christian religions.
        > Nonetheless, the ancient magical reputation of such plants still
        > lingers on in present-day popular beliefs and medicine, in
        > traditions, and even in certain common expressions. However, we
        > hardly ever give this a moment's thought, as we are no longer aware
        > of its origin.
        >
        > - Why do red roses symbolise passionate love?
        > - Why are the ceilings of old houses decorated with plaster roses?
        > - Why is it that, in Western Europe, twigs of willow, yew, holly, or
        > box are consecrated on Palm Sunday and taken home to protect the
        > house and stables?
        > - Why was a wreath of Rosemary laid before the altar at the memorial
        > service for the 1987 `Herald of Free Enterprise'disaster at
        > Zeebrugge in Belgium?
        > - Why do we still use sticks to knock walnuts off trees?
        > - What is the significance of Poppy capsules on a grave?
        > - Why did Princess Anne's wedding bouquet include a sprig of Myrtle?
        > - Why is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil portrayed as an
        > Apple Tree in Western iconography, and as a Fig Tree in Greek-
        > Orthodox iconography?
        > - Why is incense burned in churches?
        > - Why is a maypole set up at the beginning of May?
        > - Why do we say `touch wood', and knock on `wood'?
        > - Why do we hang garments of invalids and the ill on a rag tree?
        > - Why are war memorials decorated with laurel wreaths?
        > - Why are grains of Rice thrown at weddings?
        > - Why are the Mandrake plant and its fruits so popular in European
        > folk belief and medicine?
        >
        > Numerous other examples of present-day plant rituals and symbolism
        > can be linked with old heathen beliefs, in which Nature played a
        > central role. Ancient peoples saw life differently. They sought
        > emotional stability and a feeling of security in their profound
        > respect for nature and the gods and spirits connected with it. They
        > offered sacrifices to trees, springs, stones and rivers. They
        > attached great importance to mythological stories and their
        > associated natural symbolism. In all their fear and misery it gave
        > them the sense that they had a greater say in those things that
        > were `beyond words', and their feelings were certainly
        > reflected in a wide variety of stories or beliefs. Nowadays many
        > believe that symbols belong to a long-vanished world of ancient
        > peoples, or to certain so-called `primitive' tribes that have
        > survived until the present day, but that they no longer have the
        > slightest relevance to that rational and complex species, the modern
        > human being. The fertility rites of Neolithic and present-day
        > Melanesian man are seen as nothing more than archaic superstition.
        > People no longer see any link between the myths of the Ancient
        > Greeks or the folk-tales of the American Indians and their own
        > behaviour and reactions to the `heroes' of our own age. And yet
        > there definitely is a connection.
        >
        > It is unfortunate that modern man is so little aware of the
        > transcendent value of primeval symbols, which so many people have
        > for centuries understood to be a source of wisdom. Symbols represent
        > this connection and see to it that man's great universal myths
        > and rituals continue to be handed down. They still bear a message
        > that is relevant to the hectic life of modern, supposedly
        > `rational' man.
        >
        > Symbols can bring greater restfulness, stability and harmony, since
        > they offer us an insight into the immutable underlying values of
        > everyday reality.
        >
        > The great virtue of such eminent academics as the religious
        > historians Eugène Goblet d'Alviella (1845-1925), Sir James
        > Frazer (1854-1941), Joseph Campbell (1904-1987) and Mircea Eliade
        > (1907-1986) lay in their collection of universal myths and symbols,
        > reassessing them and making them acceptable as objects of academic
        > study. The Swiss psychoanalyst Carl Jung (1875-1961) considered that
        > the fundamental issues of mankind have remained unchanged over time,
        > and that the subconscious plays an essential part in dreams,
        > fantasies and myths. He regarded symbols and myths as the bridges
        > that return man to the primal unity: the Earthly Paradise, the Lost
        > Word, the Elysian Fields, Avalon and so on. Symbols and myths make
        > people aware that they live in a fundamental duality, taking the
        > form of good & evil, man & woman, life & death, finite & infinite,
        > and so on.
        >
        > In themselves they have no magical powers of expression. It is the
        > contemplation and understanding of symbols and myths that give man
        > greater insight. Everyone works in their own way and at their own
        > pace. They do so in the solitude of their deepest self, yet with no
        > feeling of exclusion, since they can count on the warmth and
        > tenderness of their fellow beings, and on rituals and symbols that
        > generate a feeling of solidarity. This feeling is of tremendous
        > value to modern man, who no longer experiences the doubts and
        > uncertainties of the past, but now faces other, more existential
        > questions.
        >
        > We therefore believe that psychologists and sociologists would, more
        > than ever, benefit from a close study of ancient rituals and their
        > symbols, as they have a fascinating story to tell about man's
        > innermost feelings, a story which man himself would probably never
        > be able or dare to tell.
        >
        > In the way it deals with ancient and modern plant symbolism, myths
        > and rituals as they are known in Europe, in the attention it pays to
        > legends, to folk beliefs, to magical healing, to popular medicine,
        > and the many other uses of ritual plants, the Compendium does not
        > claim to be complete. It covers a range of academic disciplines,
        > each of which is in itself extremely broad and sometimes less
        > accessible or even obscure. In addition, there are still a great
        > many missing links.
        >
        > However, we have tried to provide an academically sound survey of
        > the current knowledge of ritual plants down the centuries, seen in a
        > broad perspective but also with a critical look at the accuracy of
        > the naming of plant species mentioned in literature. We have
        > attempted to present all this in comprehensible language, and have
        > added about 12,000 references for those who wish to explore the
        > field further. The thread running through this compendium is
        > man's innate fear of losing his grip on his own environment and his
        > consequent escape into a world of ill-conceived spiritual and
        > magical powers. This fear probably always existed, but it can now be
        > clearly felt in these turbulent and uncertain transitional times.
        >
        > Moreover, at a time of major environmental pollution, it is
        > appropriate to reflect on the age-old bond between man and nature,
        > and the plant kingdom in particular, and to recognise its deeper
        > symbolism. The major motivation for the publication of this
        > Compendium is the hope that this understanding may in some way
        > contribute to a recovery of Man's lost harmony with Nature.
        >
        > (Chelsea Physic Garden, Oct 23 2003)
        >
        > Link to Compendium web site: http://www.smk.be/compendium
        > Further information can be obtained from Alpha Publishing in the UK,
        > at info@..., tel: 01293 881166
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 2
        > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:52:08 -0000
        > From: "Graham Burnett" <grahamburnett@...>
        > Subject: Fw: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the Roundhouse be pulled
        > down?!?
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: <tony@...>
        > To: <ecovillageuk@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 4:48 PM
        > Subject: [ecovillageuk] BBCvote - Should the Roundhouse be pulled down?!?
        >
        >
        > >
        > > From http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/environment/programmes/countryfile
        > >
        > >
        > > "The 'lost tribe' of Wales
        > >
        > > Brithdir Mawr in Pembrokeshire, West Wales is home to a small
        > > community who have rejected many of the trappings of modern day life
        > > in favour of living off the land and relying on natural resources.
        > > For years the community lived in isolation on a 165-acre site of
        > > farm and woodland. That was until they were spotted by a survey
        > > plane and became known as the 'lost tribe' of Wales.
        > >
        > > John Craven meets members of the Brithdir Mawr community and finds
        > > out about their their aim to become self-sufficient. Meanwhile
        > > Michaela Strachan learns how the community coppice their wood and
        > > meets a woman who has opted for a spartan life in a straw hut.
        > >
        > > Since the village was first noticed in 1998, Pembrokeshire Coast
        > > National Park has insisted the community's turf roofed roundhouse be
        > > pulled down. The eco-villagers say it's in harmony with the local
        > > environment but the park authority argue it was built without
        > > permission and contravenes strict planning regulations.
        > >
        > > Give your views on the future of the Brithdir Mawr roundhouse in a
        > > phone vote:
        > >
        > > If you think the house should be ALLOWED, call 0900 1 800 311.
        > >
        > > If you think the house should be DEMOLISHED, call 0900 1 800 322.
        > >
        > > Calls cost 10p and the lines are open until noon on Monday 24
        > > November. Results in the 30 November show."
        > >
        > >
        > > Have a look at this link www.brithdirmawr.com loads of info on the
        > > community, including photos.
        > > I don't know why the authorities are so frightened of this way of
        > > life - the homes are far less destructive to the environment than
        > > conventional ones and isn't that what the authorities say they want
        > > these days, sustainable development? Maybe there's not enough money
        > > to be made.
        > > I don't suppose for one moment these communitites would get planning
        > > permission if they applied in the usual way, before building, so
        > > this appears to be the only way they can do it. Other communities
        > > have eventually got planning permission for their homes, and maybe
        > > this one can be saved too if there's enough public support for it.
        > > I don't know what else we can do yet except make that phone call -
        > > hopefully they'll take notice of the result, but as the lines are
        > > only open till tomorrow lunchtime (Monday) there's not much time.
        > > Please feel free to post this elsewhere (if I've not got there
        > > first - I'll be doing the rounds before getting back to me sickbed!)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Diggers350 - an e-mail discussion/information-share list for campaigners
        > > involved with THE LAND IS OURS landrights network (based in the UK ..web
        > > ref. www.thelandisours.org). The list was originally concerned with the
        > > 350th anniversary of The Diggers (& still is concerned with their
        > history).
        > > The Diggers appeared at the end of the English Civil war with a mission
        to
        > > make the earth 'a common treasury for all'. In the spring of 1999 there
        > > were celebrations to remember the Diggers vision and their contribution.
        > > Find out more about the Diggers and see illustrations at:
        > > http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/diggers.htm
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
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        > >
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        > >
        >
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      • C. B.
        Hmm... How about To each their own or Live and let live ? :-) And definitively Please, please please don t include the whole digest in the replies! Cabe.
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 26, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Hmm... How about "To each their own" or "Live and let live"? :-)

          And definitively
          Please, please please don't include the whole digest in the replies!

          Cabe.

          >Message: 1
          > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:55:59 -0000
          > From: "Carrie Thomas" <carrie.thomas@...>
          >Subject: Re: Digest Number 230
          >
          >I am very interested in the new compendium of plants and ritual use.
          >
          >What a great pity that the speech was delivered by one who said:
          >
          > "The thread running through this compendium is
          >man's innate fear of losing his grip on his own environment and his
          >consequent escape into a world of ill-conceived spiritual and
          >magical powers."
          >
          >My own thoughts lie more aligned with a realm of spiritual mysteries,
          >thinking that perhaps today we 'escape into a world of ill-concieved
          >materialism and consumerism' rather than feeling our spiritual selves!!!
          >
          >Anyone else have any comment?
          >
          >-Carrie-

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