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Little boxes

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  • Robert Howes
    Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it s
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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      Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it's traditional. But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is, would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the housing stock gradually deteriorated.
      ***
      In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies, chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that is just to carry on as we are.
      ***
      But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world? I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut. The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for socialising.
      ***
      As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills. Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
      ***
      The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes. But what of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
      ***
      I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
      ***
      Any questions?

      Cheers,

      Bob
      ***
    • Shaman Odin
      Greetings Bob. First off, i am friends with many people from many pagan paths, including dark pagans, middle path (earth centered nature practioners of many
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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        Greetings Bob. First off, i am friends with many people from many
        pagan paths, including dark pagans, middle path (earth centered nature
        practioners of many paths), and that includes middle path satanists!
        The dark only aspects of cos is too extreme, but they can do as they
        may as long as they dont go overboard, but at least they dont try to
        convert anyone! Please refrain from using satanic in a negative way.
        As to the rest of your post, thats generally true, but socialism isnt
        new at all! How did a clan or tribe survive in the old days? By
        pooling their resources to ensure the tribe or clans survival! That
        includes winter and famines! Thats where Karl Marx got it from in the
        first place. It is a better model than capitalism, but unless its
        tribunal ran with everyone in the tribunal being equal, you can get
        abuses of that system also, joseph stalin is a example of what i mean
        by abusing socialism! However, i agree with most of your post.
        Blessings of the Netjer Shaman Odin

        On 21/06/2009, Robert Howes <robertcircle1@...> wrote:
        > Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live
        > together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and
        > it's traditional. But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it
        > is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is,
        > would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the
        > housing stock gradually deteriorated.
        > ***
        > In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to
        > do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many
        > millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present
        > homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies,
        > chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the
        > supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that
        > is just to carry on as we are.
        > ***
        > But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world?
        > I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the
        > time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large
        > planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud
        > hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of
        > them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be
        > right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut.
        > The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for
        > socialising.
        > ***
        > As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick
        > maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we
        > needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills.
        > Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be
        > built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was
        > put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden
        > Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
        > ***
        > The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning
        > Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some
        > senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes. But what
        > of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When
        > the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from
        > the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any
        > border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport
        > systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
        > ***
        > I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have
        > developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to
        > wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can
        > start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show
        > what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist
        > mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the
        > shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
        > ***
        > Any questions?
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Bob
        > ***
        >
        >


        --
        Blessings of the Netjer
        Shaman Odin
      • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
        Yes Sir. I have a question. Why bother thinking about socialism? (Theres a saying that If your still a socialist by the time your 40 then you just havent grown
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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          Yes Sir. I have a question. Why bother thinking about socialism? (Theres a saying that If your still a socialist by the time your 40 then you just havent grown up). Much more important is fair shares,and best practise for people,and the planet and the present culture shift - to - best environmental practise, could that be permaculture (which is what your talking about,really.) And the most important here is whats the flavour of wineberries.
          - i find they grow with a sweet tangy taste here. And also, how to not increase the rat population, when putting kitchen waste straight out on the ground, rather than putting it as i do in an enclosed compost barrel.to do its stuff.
          Fran k



          Robert Howes wrote:
          > Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it's traditional.. But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is, would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the housing stock gradually deteriorated.
          > ***
          > In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies, chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that is just to carry on as we are.
          > ***
          > But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world? I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut.. The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for socialising.
          > ***
          > As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills. Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
          > ***
          > The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes. But what of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
          > ***
          > I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
          > ***
          > Any questions?
          > Cheers,
          > Bob
          > ***
          >
        • matthew@b-and-t-world-seeds.com
          hehehe ^^ When you compost fish after removing the caviar, don t you have trouble keeping the neighbours out of your bins ? Who has rat attracting kitchen
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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            hehehe ^^

            When you compost fish after removing the caviar, don't you have trouble keeping the neighbours out of your bins ?

            Who has rat attracting kitchen waste that the ducks, chicken, goats or pigs won't eat ?

            m@

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: frank_bowman@...
            To: robertcircle1@...
            Cc: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: 6/21/09 7:25 AM
            Subject: RE: [pfaf] Little boxes

            Yes Sir. I have a question. Why bother thinking about socialism? (Theres a saying that If your still a socialist by the time your 40 then you just havent grown up). Much more important is fair shares,and best practise for people,and the planet and the present culture shift - to - best environmental practise, could that be permaculture (which is what your talking about,really.) And the most important here is whats the flavour of wineberries.
            - i find they grow with a sweet tangy taste here. And also, how to not increase the rat population, when putting kitchen waste straight out on the ground, rather than putting it as i do in an enclosed compost barrel.to do its stuff.
            Fran k



            Robert Howes wrote:
            > Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it's traditional.. But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is, would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the housing stock gradually deteriorated.
            > ***
            > In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies, chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that is just to carry on as we are.
            > ***
            > But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world? I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut.. The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for socialising.
            > ***
            > As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills. Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
            > ***
            > The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes. But what of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
            > ***
            > I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
            > ***
            > Any questions?
            > Cheers,
            > Bob
            > ***
            >







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          • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
            Hi. Well, it is a fact that the owls do love to appear more when the rat population goes up, and its really great to see them. But id rather just have a normal
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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              Hi. Well, it is a fact that the owls do love to appear more when the rat population goes up, and its really great to see them. But id rather just have a normal rat population,and not be overun. I think rats are probably great creatures like other rodents. I really love the little stubby fat voles. I reckon our minds in Uk, have been propoganderised to dislike rats. If ive got to have them around though, I think id rather have just a normal amount. As they do suffer from acute incontinance. . I do appreciate other places dont suffer from this problem, and in towns houses, every body is living a bit sealed in, not so close to nature, as we do here, low impact. Putting the kitchen waste straight in the ground has to be the best thing i agree, except for making great rich potting compost, and so its good to have a supply. What i do find good otherwise is putting a little at the bottom of a pot when potting and also putting some in the bottom of the hole
              when planting a tree.
              And we were given that advise with squashes, cucumbers, courgettes, grown in a pot and it worked really well. Fran k.

              matthew@... wrote:
              > hehehe ^^
              > When you compost fish after removing the caviar, don't you have trouble keeping the neighbours out of your bins ?
              > Who has rat attracting kitchen waste that the ducks, chicken, goats or pigs won't eat ?
              > m@
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: frank_bowman@ yahoo.co. uk
              > To: robertcircle1@ yahoo.co. uk
              > Cc: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: 6/21/09 7:25 AM
              > Subject: RE: [pfaf] Little boxes
              > Yes Sir. I have a question. Why bother thinking about socialism? (Theres a saying that If your still a socialist by the time your 40 then you just havent grown up). Much more important is fair shares,and best practise for people,and the planet and the present culture shift - to - best environmental practise, could that be permaculture (which is what your talking about,really. ) And the most important here is whats the flavour of wineberries.
              > - i find they grow with a sweet tangy taste here. And also, how to not increase the rat population, when putting kitchen waste straight out on the ground, rather than putting it as i do in an enclosed compost barrel.to do its stuff.
              > Fran k
              > Robert Howes wrote:
              >> Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it's traditional. . But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is, would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the housing stock gradually deteriorated.
              >> ***
              >> In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies, chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that is just to carry on as we are.
              >> ***
              >> But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world? I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut.. The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for socialising.
              >> ***
              >> As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills. Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
              >> ***
              >> The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes. But what of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
              >> ***
              >> I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
              >> ***
              >> Any questions?
              >> Cheers,
              >> Bob
              >> ***
              >>
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            • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
              Im thinking should i post this or should i not. After all this group is an amazing plant focussed learning thing, and im just contributing to taking it away
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 21, 2009
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                Im thinking should i post this or should i not. After all this group is an amazing plant focussed learning thing, and im just contributing to taking it away from its focus.and into other areas. But i will, and thats it, ill shut up spouting.


                Hi. I was just being cheeky about 'if ur still a socialist by the time ur 40' thing. As of course if the answer to a competitive (u call capatilist) tribe, in our case world tribe is to share (at least - life - lifes 4 elements - lifes essentials) then thats the answer to pursue and beyond 40.

                The answer to someone who says u havent grown up is 'well you only climbed the mountain of awareness so far up,and u came back down, if u had carried on up, u may have got to the top!. For me the top awareness, is that we are best becoming us, from growing in the right soil, the right environment for us, so that whatever plant or flower we individually are we will blossom and flower,in happiness, content we are becoming growing, and the only thing thats stopping some of us from doing that is that the competitive success oriented soil that we live in is not the right type of soil for us. X fran k

                frank_bowman@... wrote:
                > Yes Sir. I have a question. Why bother thinking about socialism? (Theres a saying that If your still a socialist by the time your 40 then you just havent grown up). Much more important is fair shares,and best practise for people,and the planet and the present culture shift - to - best environmental practise, could that be permaculture (which is what your talking about,really. ) And the most important here is whats the flavour of wineberries.
                > - i find they grow with a sweet tangy taste here. And also, how to not increase the rat population, when putting kitchen waste straight out on the ground, rather than putting it as i do in an enclosed compost barrel.to do its stuff.
                > Fran k
                > Robert Howes wrote:
                >> Why do we live in little boxes? It kinda makes sense for a family to live together in a few rooms (living room, kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms), and it's traditional. . But is it suitable to our real needs? I don't think it is. For socialism to take over this society with all of its housing, as is, would put a great strain on the first few decades of socialism as the housing stock gradually deteriorated.
                >> ***
                >> In theory you would patch up your own house or get the trades persons in to do it, for free. But with a couple of billion homes to maintain and in many millions of cases to build from scratch for the millions that are at present homeless or living in squalor will take a massive army of brickies, chippies, electricians, plumbers, roofers, labourers and so on. Also the supply of building materials would have to be stepped up greatly. And that is just to carry on as we are.
                >> ***
                >> But as I said, are little boxes what people will want in a socialist world? I think not. Why did we start living this way. Well it made sense at the time. Back in the old days when there were very few humans on a very large planet you would find a cave to live in, or a tree, or you'd build a mud hut. But caves can be damp, and they are dark, and there aren't enough of them to go around. Also, as people developed agriculture they needed to be right by the land. A tribe would build a few small huts and one big hut.. The small huts would give more privacy, the big huts were good for socialising.
                >> ***
                >> As we industrialised we created towns where the butcher, baker, candlestick maker were all close to each other, and as we further industrialised we needed the workers accommodation to be next to the dark satanic mills. Labout was cheap and building control non-existant, and a house could be built in a day (they normally took a couple of weeks). No other thought was put into it until Ebenezer Howard built Letchworth and later Welwyn Garden Cities and brought in the garden cities movement.
                >> ***
                >> The Garden Cities organisation became the TCPA (Town & Country Planning Association) of which I am a member. Unfortunately the TCPA is in some senses backward looking, still wedded to the idea of family homes.. But what of the future? What form will the family take in a socialist world? When the relationship between worker and work might be entirely different from the present, when everyone in the world is free to move around without any border controls or financial impediment, what sort of housing and transport systems and work places will satisfy their needs?
                >> ***
                >> I have so often imagined the future and how it might operate that I have developed various ideas to answer these questions. And there is no need to wait until the overwhelming majority are in favour of socialism, we can start building the future right now, pull the world out of recession, show what socialist thought really can do, attract more people to the socialist mode of thinking and cause a snowball effect resulting in socialism in the shortest time possible. How can anyone argue with that?
                >> ***
                >> Any questions?
                >> Cheers,
                >> Bob
                >> ***
                >>
                >
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