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Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted 2007/8 season with comments:

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  • Jim
    Don t forget to check out the germination method I use (see below) - its ideal for restricted space locations who can t or don t want to construct large
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 21, 2008
      Don't forget to check out the germination method I use (see below) -
      its ideal for restricted space locations who can't or don't want to
      construct large nursery beds...as long as you get the soil dampness
      right, and plant around the right time of year, say New Year for
      everything apart from exotic oaks and chestnuts which are soft
      skinned and rot easily and can be planted a month or two later
      depending on location, weather etc. If they are in a greenhouse,
      spring in this microclimate will be early of course.

      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
      >
      > List of varieties of nut seed planted 2007/8 season:
      >
      > Location: outside and in cold greenhouse in Kent, UK.
      >
      > RESULTS 22/10/08
      >
      >
      > From Grimo Nuts:(all outside)
      >
      > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - Broadview good, Combe
      > v.good
      > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3, Good
      > Buartnut - Not sprouted yet, seed intact
      > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - Good
      > Hican, var. Burton - Good
      > Shellbark Hickory - Good
      > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson, V.good
      >
      >
      > Schumachers: (outside)
      >
      > Pecan (improved) variety Burkett - V.good
      >
      >
      > Sandeman: (cold greenhouse)
      >
      > Quercus ilex Ballota - Nothing, rotted, probably soil too moist
      >
      >
      > Forestart (cold greenhouse)
      >
      > Monkey Puzzle - OK
      >
      > Pineus Pinea - V.good
      >
      >
      > Almonds and pecans from Christmas nut packs - Almonds ok, rest poor
      >
      > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold) -
      > still nothing
      >
      > Lots of native oak - Ok
      >
      > Following all in cold greenhouse:
      >
      > Best Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury - Nothing, rotted, soil too moist
      > probably
      >
      > Walnuts from farm shop at Pembury - Nothing
      >
      > Sweet Chestnuts from ART both directly from Riverford Farm Shop -
      > Nothing, rotted, soil too moist.
      >
      >
      > The sweet chestnuts and Quercus Ilex Ballota were planted early,
      > before Christmas...and stupidly the soil was too moist and the seed
      > rotted before the warmer weather arrived to start growth. (annoying
      > waste of time and seed)... So next time I'll use much drier compost
      > with the stuff I plant early. Grimo seed was planted late probably
      > fortunatly due to it being sent from the USA by surface mail rather
      > than airmail. The stuff from Grimo has done really well. Buartnuts
      > from Schmachers I seem to recall from previous years was
      consistantly
      > large nuts and germinated ok. I would appreciate any suggestings
      for
      > other nut species and best sources for this region by the way.
      >
      > Time to put that seed order in folks!!!
      >
      > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "cromlech108" <cromlech108@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi everyone ESPECIALLY TEMPERATE NUT GROWERS LOOK!
      > >
      > > The seasons well advanced now here in the UK, everything lush and
      > > green. I thought I'd post up which varieties of nut seeds I've
      > planted
      > > this year, - and where its sourced from. The broadleaves have been
      > > planted in the feartliser/compost etc plastic sacks cut down and
      > > filled with compost/leafmold. The bottoms of sacks are puntured to
      > > give drainage and placed out of reach of the nut growers menace -
      > the
      > > introduced to the UK, american grey (and now black mutated)
      > squirrel.
      > > The Pecans were planted in large plastic pots. All containers are
      > > labelled.
      > >
      > > I would recommend that you get air mail delivery rather than
      surface
      > > mail if required because you'll be waiting...and waiting..and
      > waiting
      > > otherwise. Remember that many varities need cold stratification
      of
      > up
      > > to 90 days. In terms of 'Exotics' (here in the UK), some years
      they
      > > seem to sprout well, other years nothing. (i.e. Butternuts,
      > Heartnuts,
      > > Buartnuts, Pecans, Walnuts, Hickorys etc.
      > > I seem not to have got any Butternuts this year - Ernie Grimo must
      > > have been out of them. I have a few growing from 2 years ago that
      > are
      > > to planted out this winter in my East Sussex nut grove.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Seed placed outside in cold and shady in winter, closed off side
      > > passage that the grey squirrels don't seem to have sussed, this
      > seems
      > > to provide the required cold startification:
      > >
      > >
      > > From Grimo Nuts, a sound supplier at $10/lb:
      > >
      > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - good germination
      > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3
      > > Buartnut
      > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - good germination
      > > Hican, var. Burton
      > > Shellbark Hickory
      > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson
      > >
      > >
      > > Schumachers:
      > >
      > > Pecan improved (variety Burkett) - The best Pecan in terms of
      > > germination and nut size I've seen so far. (these were cold
      > stratified
      > > for 90 days in the fridge and have just been planted - some were
      > > splitting openwhen planted)
      > > Oh I got some very nice large consistantly sized Buartnuts
      (hybrids
      > of
      > > Butternuts and Heartnuts) from Schumachers last year, but the
      seed
      > was
      > > eaten I think :(
      > >
      > >
      > > In The Greenhouse:
      > >
      > > Sandeman:
      > >
      > > Quercus ilex Ballota - The largest were selected from the
      seedpack.
      > > The rest were tainted with creosote and planted out in an
      abandoned
      > > Orchard, plus on or two carefully selected areas of freshly felled
      > > conifers on Forestry Commission estate near where I have a
      cottage
      > on
      > > Anglesey. Thats a whole story actually! I also planted small
      trees
      > of
      > > pecan, walnut and chestnut etc etc on this site. I removed some
      > samll
      > > conifers that were there previously. Guess what happened next? I
      got
      > > 'raided' by North Wales Police, including the Countryside Council
      > for
      > > Wales specialist wildlife cop... and even 2 camera people from
      the
      > BBC
      > > who were doing a film on wildlife crime in Wales. (look out for
      the
      > > show - a silent geezer with dreads being lead away to a waiting
      cop
      > > car). There are 600 acres of conifers up there. Craig
      Shuttleworth
      > of
      > > the Anglesey Red Squirrel Project thinks there should be even
      more.
      > He
      > > fitted me up badly! Luckily the cops were actually impressed I
      think
      > > with what I was actually doing and no charges under the wildlife
      and
      > > countryside act (damaging the habitate of an endangered species -
      > the
      > > Red Squirrel) were filed.) I was just formally cautioned for
      > criminal
      > > damage. Anyone know this guy Craig Shuttleworth? - try and get
      him
      > to
      > > back off please. We'll be appreciative of those nut trees in the
      > > future...and he keep trying to plant more f'ing conifers where
      the
      > nut
      > > trees have been planted. Most of the forest should be native
      > greenwood
      > > , plus areas of nutting and fruiting trees. The era of
      > coniferistaion
      > > is over. Red Squirrels are native animals who like a native tree
      > cover
      > > the best. Grey squirrels have been eliminated from Anglesey, so
      > > competition from this species is not an issue.
      > >
      > >
      > > Forestart:
      > >
      > > Monkey Puzzle - good but slightly slow germination
      > >
      > > Pineus Pinea - good germination (cold stratified for 28 days in
      sand
      > > in fridge, other people say plant instantly after 2 days soak in
      > water)
      > >
      > >
      > > Also:
      > >
      > > Almonds (good quick germination) and pecans from Christmas nut
      packs
      > >
      > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold)
      > >
      > > Lots of the special native oak from different areas and different
      > > trees. Good germination. Blessed be!
      > >
      > > Best selected local Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury
      > >
      > > Walnuts from local farm shop at Pembury
      > >
      > > Sweet Chestnuts from the legendary Agroforestry Research Trust,
      both
      > > directly and from Riverford Farm Shop
      > >
      > >
      > > I've heard the cherries from good trees can be germinated by just
      > > leaving them on the surface of the soil in pots.
      >
    • Jim
      Here is a picture showing the germnination and growing on to small trees technique that I use:
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 22, 2008
        Here is a picture showing the germnination and growing on to small
        trees technique that I use:

        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/pfaf/photos/view/fe14?b=1&m=f&o=0

        These trees will be ready to plant out or distribute to others to do
        so when the leaves drop off immenently.


        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
        >
        > Don't forget to check out the germination method I use (see below) -

        > its ideal for restricted space locations who can't or don't want to
        > construct large nursery beds...as long as you get the soil dampness
        > right, and plant around the right time of year, say New Year for
        > everything apart from exotic oaks and chestnuts which are soft
        > skinned and rot easily and can be planted a month or two later
        > depending on location, weather etc. If they are in a greenhouse,
        > spring in this microclimate will be early of course.
        >
        > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@> wrote:
        > >
        > > List of varieties of nut seed planted 2007/8 season:
        > >
        > > Location: outside and in cold greenhouse in Kent, UK.
        > >
        > > RESULTS 22/10/08
        > >
        > >
        > > From Grimo Nuts:(all outside)

        > >
        > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - Broadview good, Combe
        > > v.good
        > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3, Good
        > > Buartnut - Not sprouted yet, seed intact
        > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - Good
        > > Hican, var. Burton - Good
        > > Shellbark Hickory - Good
        > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson, V.good
        > >
        > >
        > > Schumachers: (outside)
        > >
        > > Pecan (improved) variety Burkett - V.good
        > >
        > >
        > > Sandeman: (cold greenhouse)
        > >
        > > Quercus ilex Ballota - Nothing, rotted, probably soil too moist
        > >
        > >
        > > Forestart (cold greenhouse)
        > >
        > > Monkey Puzzle - OK
        > >
        > > Pineus Pinea - V.good
        > >
        > >
        > > Almonds and pecans from Christmas nut packs - Almonds ok, rest
        poor
        > >
        > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold) -
        > > still nothing
        > >
        > > Lots of native oak - Ok
        > >
        > > Following all in cold greenhouse:
        > >
        > > Best Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury - Nothing, rotted, soil too
        moist
        > > probably
        > >
        > > Walnuts from farm shop at Pembury - Nothing
        > >
        > > Sweet Chestnuts from ART both directly from Riverford Farm Shop -
        > > Nothing, rotted, soil too moist.
        > >
        > >
        > > The sweet chestnuts and Quercus Ilex Ballota were planted early,
        > > before Christmas...and stupidly the soil was too moist and the
        seed
        > > rotted before the warmer weather arrived to start growth.
        (annoying
        > > waste of time and seed)... So next time I'll use much drier
        compost
        > > with the stuff I plant early. Grimo seed was planted late
        probably
        > > fortunatly due to it being sent from the USA by surface mail
        rather
        > > than airmail. The stuff from Grimo has done really well.
        Buartnuts
        > > from Schmachers I seem to recall from previous years was
        > consistantly
        > > large nuts and germinated ok. I would appreciate any suggestings
        > for
        > > other nut species and best sources for this region by the way.
        > >
        > > Time to put that seed order in folks!!!
        > >
        > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "cromlech108" <cromlech108@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi everyone ESPECIALLY TEMPERATE NUT GROWERS LOOK!
        > > >
        > > > The seasons well advanced now here in the UK, everything lush
        and
        > > > green. I thought I'd post up which varieties of nut seeds I've
        > > planted
        > > > this year, - and where its sourced from. The broadleaves have
        been
        > > > planted in the feartliser/compost etc plastic sacks cut down and
        > > > filled with compost/leafmold. The bottoms of sacks are puntured
        to
        > > > give drainage and placed out of reach of the nut growers
        menace -
        > > the
        > > > introduced to the UK, american grey (and now black mutated)
        > > squirrel.
        > > > The Pecans were planted in large plastic pots. All containers
        are
        > > > labelled.
        > > >
        > > > I would recommend that you get air mail delivery rather than
        > surface
        > > > mail if required because you'll be waiting...and waiting..and
        > > waiting
        > > > otherwise. Remember that many varities need cold stratification
        > of
        > > up
        > > > to 90 days. In terms of 'Exotics' (here in the UK), some years
        > they
        > > > seem to sprout well, other years nothing. (i.e. Butternuts,
        > > Heartnuts,
        > > > Buartnuts, Pecans, Walnuts, Hickorys etc.
        > > > I seem not to have got any Butternuts this year - Ernie Grimo
        must
        > > > have been out of them. I have a few growing from 2 years ago
        that
        > > are
        > > > to planted out this winter in my East Sussex nut grove.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Seed placed outside in cold and shady in winter, closed off side
        > > > passage that the grey squirrels don't seem to have sussed, this
        > > seems
        > > > to provide the required cold startification:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > From Grimo Nuts, a sound supplier at $10/lb:
        > > >
        > > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - good germination
        > > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3
        > > > Buartnut
        > > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - good germination
        > > > Hican, var. Burton
        > > > Shellbark Hickory
        > > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Schumachers:
        > > >
        > > > Pecan improved (variety Burkett) - The best Pecan in terms of
        > > > germination and nut size I've seen so far. (these were cold
        > > stratified
        > > > for 90 days in the fridge and have just been planted - some were
        > > > splitting openwhen planted)
        > > > Oh I got some very nice large consistantly sized Buartnuts
        > (hybrids
        > > of
        > > > Butternuts and Heartnuts) from Schumachers last year, but the
        > seed
        > > was
        > > > eaten I think :(
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In The Greenhouse:
        > > >
        > > > Sandeman:
        > > >
        > > > Quercus ilex Ballota - The largest were selected from the
        > seedpack.
        > > > The rest were tainted with creosote and planted out in an
        > abandoned
        > > > Orchard, plus on or two carefully selected areas of freshly
        felled
        > > > conifers on Forestry Commission estate near where I have a
        > cottage
        > > on
        > > > Anglesey. Thats a whole story actually! I also planted small
        > trees
        > > of
        > > > pecan, walnut and chestnut etc etc on this site. I removed some
        > > samll
        > > > conifers that were there previously. Guess what happened next?
        I
        > got
        > > > 'raided' by North Wales Police, including the Countryside
        Council
        > > for
        > > > Wales specialist wildlife cop... and even 2 camera people from
        > the
        > > BBC
        > > > who were doing a film on wildlife crime in Wales. (look out for
        > the
        > > > show - a silent geezer with dreads being lead away to a waiting
        > cop
        > > > car). There are 600 acres of conifers up there. Craig
        > Shuttleworth
        > > of
        > > > the Anglesey Red Squirrel Project thinks there should be even
        > more.
        > > He
        > > > fitted me up badly! Luckily the cops were actually impressed I
        > think
        > > > with what I was actually doing and no charges under the
        wildlife
        > and
        > > > countryside act (damaging the habitate of an endangered
        species -
        > > the
        > > > Red Squirrel) were filed.) I was just formally cautioned for
        > > criminal
        > > > damage. Anyone know this guy Craig Shuttleworth? - try and get
        > him
        > > to
        > > > back off please. We'll be appreciative of those nut trees in the
        > > > future...and he keep trying to plant more f'ing conifers where
        > the
        > > nut
        > > > trees have been planted. Most of the forest should be native
        > > greenwood
        > > > , plus areas of nutting and fruiting trees. The era of
        > > coniferistaion
        > > > is over. Red Squirrels are native animals who like a native
        tree
        > > cover
        > > > the best. Grey squirrels have been eliminated from Anglesey, so
        > > > competition from this species is not an issue.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Forestart:
        > > >
        > > > Monkey Puzzle - good but slightly slow germination
        > > >
        > > > Pineus Pinea - good germination (cold stratified for 28 days in
        > sand
        > > > in fridge, other people say plant instantly after 2 days soak
        in
        > > water)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Also:
        > > >
        > > > Almonds (good quick germination) and pecans from Christmas nut
        > packs
        > > >
        > > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold)
        > > >
        > > > Lots of the special native oak from different areas and
        different
        > > > trees. Good germination. Blessed be!
        > > >
        > > > Best selected local Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury
        > > >
        > > > Walnuts from local farm shop at Pembury
        > > >
        > > > Sweet Chestnuts from the legendary Agroforestry Research Trust,
        > both
        > > > directly and from Riverford Farm Shop
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I've heard the cherries from good trees can be germinated by
        just
        > > > leaving them on the surface of the soil in pots.
        > >
        >
      • Geir Flatabø
        No Hazelnuts,? there are lots of possible Corylus spp and cultivars.. and then all the possible Pine nuts - Pinions.. Pinus koraiensis and P cembra and P
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 23, 2008
          No Hazelnuts,?
          there are lots of possible Corylus spp and cultivars..
          and then all the possible Pine nuts - Pinions..
          Pinus koraiensis and P cembra and P sibirica, P cembroides etc....

          Geir Flatabø

          2008/10/21 Jim <cromlech108@...>

          > List of varieties of nut seed planted 2007/8 season:
          >
          > Location: outside and in cold greenhouse in Kent, UK.
          >
          > RESULTS 22/10/08
          >
          >
          > From Grimo Nuts:(all outside)
          >
          > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - Broadview good, Combe
          > v.good
          > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3, Good
          > Buartnut - Not sprouted yet, seed intact
          > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - Good
          > Hican, var. Burton - Good
          > Shellbark Hickory - Good
          > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson, V.good
          >
          >
          > Schumachers: (outside)
          >
          > Pecan (improved) variety Burkett - V.good
          >
          >
          > Sandeman: (cold greenhouse)
          >
          > Quercus ilex Ballota - Nothing, rotted, probably soil too moist
          >
          >
          > Forestart (cold greenhouse)
          >
          > Monkey Puzzle - OK
          >
          > Pineus Pinea - V.good
          >
          >
          > Almonds and pecans from Christmas nut packs - Almonds ok, rest poor
          >
          > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold) -
          > still nothing
          >
          > Lots of native oak - Ok
          >
          > Following all in cold greenhouse:
          >
          > Best Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury - Nothing, rotted, soil too moist
          > probably
          >
          > Walnuts from farm shop at Pembury - Nothing
          >
          > Sweet Chestnuts from ART both directly from Riverford Farm Shop -
          > Nothing, rotted, soil too moist.
          >
          >
          > The sweet chestnuts and Quercus Ilex Ballota were planted early,
          > before Christmas...and stupidly the soil was too moist and the seed
          > rotted before the warmer weather arrived to start growth. (annoying
          > waste of time and seed)... So next time I'll use much drier compost
          > with the stuff I plant early. Grimo seed was planted late probably
          > fortunatly due to it being sent from the USA by surface mail rather
          > than airmail. The stuff from Grimo has done really well. Buartnuts
          > from Schmachers I seem to recall from previous years was consistantly
          > large nuts and germinated ok. I would appreciate any suggestings for
          > other nut species and best sources for this region by the way.
          >
          > Time to put that seed order in folks!!!
          >
          > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "cromlech108" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi everyone ESPECIALLY TEMPERATE NUT GROWERS LOOK!
          > >
          > > The seasons well advanced now here in the UK, everything lush and
          > > green. I thought I'd post up which varieties of nut seeds I've
          > planted
          > > this year, - and where its sourced from. The broadleaves have been
          > > planted in the feartliser/compost etc plastic sacks cut down and
          > > filled with compost/leafmold. The bottoms of sacks are puntured to
          > > give drainage and placed out of reach of the nut growers menace -
          > the
          > > introduced to the UK, american grey (and now black mutated)
          > squirrel.
          > > The Pecans were planted in large plastic pots. All containers are
          > > labelled.
          > >
          > > I would recommend that you get air mail delivery rather than surface
          > > mail if required because you'll be waiting...and waiting..and
          > waiting
          > > otherwise. Remember that many varities need cold stratification of
          > up
          > > to 90 days. In terms of 'Exotics' (here in the UK), some years they
          > > seem to sprout well, other years nothing. (i.e. Butternuts,
          > Heartnuts,
          > > Buartnuts, Pecans, Walnuts, Hickorys etc.
          > > I seem not to have got any Butternuts this year - Ernie Grimo must
          > > have been out of them. I have a few growing from 2 years ago that
          > are
          > > to planted out this winter in my East Sussex nut grove.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Seed placed outside in cold and shady in winter, closed off side
          > > passage that the grey squirrels don't seem to have sussed, this
          > seems
          > > to provide the required cold startification:
          > >
          > >
          > > From Grimo Nuts, a sound supplier at $10/lb:
          > >
          > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - good germination
          > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3
          > > Buartnut
          > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - good germination
          > > Hican, var. Burton
          > > Shellbark Hickory
          > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson
          > >
          > >
          > > Schumachers:
          > >
          > > Pecan improved (variety Burkett) - The best Pecan in terms of
          > > germination and nut size I've seen so far. (these were cold
          > stratified
          > > for 90 days in the fridge and have just been planted - some were
          > > splitting openwhen planted)
          > > Oh I got some very nice large consistantly sized Buartnuts (hybrids
          > of
          > > Butternuts and Heartnuts) from Schumachers last year, but the seed
          > was
          > > eaten I think :(
          > >
          > >
          > > In The Greenhouse:
          > >
          > > Sandeman:
          > >
          > > Quercus ilex Ballota - The largest were selected from the seedpack.
          > > The rest were tainted with creosote and planted out in an abandoned
          > > Orchard, plus on or two carefully selected areas of freshly felled
          > > conifers on Forestry Commission estate near where I have a cottage
          > on
          > > Anglesey. Thats a whole story actually! I also planted small trees
          > of
          > > pecan, walnut and chestnut etc etc on this site. I removed some
          > samll
          > > conifers that were there previously. Guess what happened next? I got
          > > 'raided' by North Wales Police, including the Countryside Council
          > for
          > > Wales specialist wildlife cop... and even 2 camera people from the
          > BBC
          > > who were doing a film on wildlife crime in Wales. (look out for the
          > > show - a silent geezer with dreads being lead away to a waiting cop
          > > car). There are 600 acres of conifers up there. Craig Shuttleworth
          > of
          > > the Anglesey Red Squirrel Project thinks there should be even more.
          > He
          > > fitted me up badly! Luckily the cops were actually impressed I think
          > > with what I was actually doing and no charges under the wildlife and
          > > countryside act (damaging the habitate of an endangered species -
          > the
          > > Red Squirrel) were filed.) I was just formally cautioned for
          > criminal
          > > damage. Anyone know this guy Craig Shuttleworth? - try and get him
          > to
          > > back off please. We'll be appreciative of those nut trees in the
          > > future...and he keep trying to plant more f'ing conifers where the
          > nut
          > > trees have been planted. Most of the forest should be native
          > greenwood
          > > , plus areas of nutting and fruiting trees. The era of
          > coniferistaion
          > > is over. Red Squirrels are native animals who like a native tree
          > cover
          > > the best. Grey squirrels have been eliminated from Anglesey, so
          > > competition from this species is not an issue.
          > >
          > >
          > > Forestart:
          > >
          > > Monkey Puzzle - good but slightly slow germination
          > >
          > > Pineus Pinea - good germination (cold stratified for 28 days in sand
          > > in fridge, other people say plant instantly after 2 days soak in
          > water)
          > >
          > >
          > > Also:
          > >
          > > Almonds (good quick germination) and pecans from Christmas nut packs
          > >
          > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold)
          > >
          > > Lots of the special native oak from different areas and different
          > > trees. Good germination. Blessed be!
          > >
          > > Best selected local Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury
          > >
          > > Walnuts from local farm shop at Pembury
          > >
          > > Sweet Chestnuts from the legendary Agroforestry Research Trust, both
          > > directly and from Riverford Farm Shop
          > >
          > >
          > > I've heard the cherries from good trees can be germinated by just
          > > leaving them on the surface of the soil in pots.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim
          Yes I ve planted of of Hazels grown from seed - Kent Cobbs which are actually fiberts...I did have some filbert seed also this year which didn t germinate. I
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 23, 2008
            Yes I've planted of of Hazels grown from seed - 'Kent Cobbs' which
            are actually fiberts...I did have some filbert seed also this year
            which didn't germinate. I have been a bit slack perhaps on conifers,
            but I understand that Pinus Pinea is the best to try in this
            location. Germination of other edibles pine seed is more difficult
            than Pinus Pinea. I've tried Pinion Pine - nothing. I think I'd have
            to buy in trees to have these species as specimin trees.


            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:
            >
            > No Hazelnuts,?
            > there are lots of possible Corylus spp and cultivars..
            > and then all the possible Pine nuts - Pinions..
            > Pinus koraiensis and P cembra and P sibirica, P cembroides etc....
            >
            > Geir Flatabø
            >
            > 2008/10/21 Jim <cromlech108@...>
            >
            > > List of varieties of nut seed planted 2007/8 season:
            > >
            > > Location: outside and in cold greenhouse in Kent, UK.
            > >
            > > RESULTS 22/10/08
            > >
            > >
            > > From Grimo Nuts:(all outside)
            > >
            > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - Broadview good, Combe
            > > v.good
            > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3, Good
            > > Buartnut - Not sprouted yet, seed intact
            > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - Good
            > > Hican, var. Burton - Good
            > > Shellbark Hickory - Good
            > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson, V.good
            > >
            > >
            > > Schumachers: (outside)
            > >
            > > Pecan (improved) variety Burkett - V.good
            > >
            > >
            > > Sandeman: (cold greenhouse)
            > >
            > > Quercus ilex Ballota - Nothing, rotted, probably soil too moist
            > >
            > >
            > > Forestart (cold greenhouse)
            > >
            > > Monkey Puzzle - OK
            > >
            > > Pineus Pinea - V.good
            > >
            > >
            > > Almonds and pecans from Christmas nut packs - Almonds ok, rest
            poor
            > >
            > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold) -
            > > still nothing
            > >
            > > Lots of native oak - Ok
            > >
            > > Following all in cold greenhouse:
            > >
            > > Best Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury - Nothing, rotted, soil too
            moist
            > > probably
            > >
            > > Walnuts from farm shop at Pembury - Nothing
            > >
            > > Sweet Chestnuts from ART both directly from Riverford Farm Shop -
            > > Nothing, rotted, soil too moist.
            > >
            > >
            > > The sweet chestnuts and Quercus Ilex Ballota were planted early,
            > > before Christmas...and stupidly the soil was too moist and the
            seed
            > > rotted before the warmer weather arrived to start growth.
            (annoying
            > > waste of time and seed)... So next time I'll use much drier
            compost
            > > with the stuff I plant early. Grimo seed was planted late probably
            > > fortunatly due to it being sent from the USA by surface mail
            rather
            > > than airmail. The stuff from Grimo has done really well.
            Buartnuts
            > > from Schmachers I seem to recall from previous years was
            consistantly
            > > large nuts and germinated ok. I would appreciate any suggestings
            for
            > > other nut species and best sources for this region by the way.
            > >
            > > Time to put that seed order in folks!!!
            > >
            > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "cromlech108" <cromlech108@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi everyone ESPECIALLY TEMPERATE NUT GROWERS LOOK!
            > > >
            > > > The seasons well advanced now here in the UK, everything lush
            and
            > > > green. I thought I'd post up which varieties of nut seeds I've
            > > planted
            > > > this year, - and where its sourced from. The broadleaves have
            been
            > > > planted in the feartliser/compost etc plastic sacks cut down and
            > > > filled with compost/leafmold. The bottoms of sacks are puntured
            to
            > > > give drainage and placed out of reach of the nut growers
            menace -
            > > the
            > > > introduced to the UK, american grey (and now black mutated)
            > > squirrel.
            > > > The Pecans were planted in large plastic pots. All containers
            are
            > > > labelled.
            > > >
            > > > I would recommend that you get air mail delivery rather than
            surface
            > > > mail if required because you'll be waiting...and waiting..and
            > > waiting
            > > > otherwise. Remember that many varities need cold stratification
            of
            > > up
            > > > to 90 days. In terms of 'Exotics' (here in the UK), some years
            they
            > > > seem to sprout well, other years nothing. (i.e. Butternuts,
            > > Heartnuts,
            > > > Buartnuts, Pecans, Walnuts, Hickorys etc.
            > > > I seem not to have got any Butternuts this year - Ernie Grimo
            must
            > > > have been out of them. I have a few growing from 2 years ago
            that
            > > are
            > > > to planted out this winter in my East Sussex nut grove.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Seed placed outside in cold and shady in winter, closed off side
            > > > passage that the grey squirrels don't seem to have sussed, this
            > > seems
            > > > to provide the required cold startification:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > From Grimo Nuts, a sound supplier at $10/lb:
            > > >
            > > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - good germination
            > > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3
            > > > Buartnut
            > > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - good germination
            > > > Hican, var. Burton
            > > > Shellbark Hickory
            > > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Schumachers:
            > > >
            > > > Pecan improved (variety Burkett) - The best Pecan in terms of
            > > > germination and nut size I've seen so far. (these were cold
            > > stratified
            > > > for 90 days in the fridge and have just been planted - some were
            > > > splitting openwhen planted)
            > > > Oh I got some very nice large consistantly sized Buartnuts
            (hybrids
            > > of
            > > > Butternuts and Heartnuts) from Schumachers last year, but the
            seed
            > > was
            > > > eaten I think :(
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In The Greenhouse:
            > > >
            > > > Sandeman:
            > > >
            > > > Quercus ilex Ballota - The largest were selected from the
            seedpack.
            > > > The rest were tainted with creosote and planted out in an
            abandoned
            > > > Orchard, plus on or two carefully selected areas of freshly
            felled
            > > > conifers on Forestry Commission estate near where I have a
            cottage
            > > on
            > > > Anglesey. Thats a whole story actually! I also planted small
            trees
            > > of
            > > > pecan, walnut and chestnut etc etc on this site. I removed some
            > > samll
            > > > conifers that were there previously. Guess what happened next?
            I got
            > > > 'raided' by North Wales Police, including the Countryside
            Council
            > > for
            > > > Wales specialist wildlife cop... and even 2 camera people from
            the
            > > BBC
            > > > who were doing a film on wildlife crime in Wales. (look out for
            the
            > > > show - a silent geezer with dreads being lead away to a waiting
            cop
            > > > car). There are 600 acres of conifers up there. Craig
            Shuttleworth
            > > of
            > > > the Anglesey Red Squirrel Project thinks there should be even
            more.
            > > He
            > > > fitted me up badly! Luckily the cops were actually impressed I
            think
            > > > with what I was actually doing and no charges under the
            wildlife and
            > > > countryside act (damaging the habitate of an endangered
            species -
            > > the
            > > > Red Squirrel) were filed.) I was just formally cautioned for
            > > criminal
            > > > damage. Anyone know this guy Craig Shuttleworth? - try and get
            him
            > > to
            > > > back off please. We'll be appreciative of those nut trees in the
            > > > future...and he keep trying to plant more f'ing conifers where
            the
            > > nut
            > > > trees have been planted. Most of the forest should be native
            > > greenwood
            > > > , plus areas of nutting and fruiting trees. The era of
            > > coniferistaion
            > > > is over. Red Squirrels are native animals who like a native tree
            > > cover
            > > > the best. Grey squirrels have been eliminated from Anglesey, so
            > > > competition from this species is not an issue.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Forestart:
            > > >
            > > > Monkey Puzzle - good but slightly slow germination
            > > >
            > > > Pineus Pinea - good germination (cold stratified for 28 days in
            sand
            > > > in fridge, other people say plant instantly after 2 days soak in
            > > water)
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Also:
            > > >
            > > > Almonds (good quick germination) and pecans from Christmas nut
            packs
            > > >
            > > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf mold)
            > > >
            > > > Lots of the special native oak from different areas and
            different
            > > > trees. Good germination. Blessed be!
            > > >
            > > > Best selected local Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury
            > > >
            > > > Walnuts from local farm shop at Pembury
            > > >
            > > > Sweet Chestnuts from the legendary Agroforestry Research Trust,
            both
            > > > directly and from Riverford Farm Shop
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I've heard the cherries from good trees can be germinated by
            just
            > > > leaving them on the surface of the soil in pots.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Jim
            I spent today at the Weald/Brightling, Sussex, UK, farmy planting up specimin trees in tree shelters. I ll post some photos up maybe. I might actually be
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 23, 2008
              I spent today at the Weald/Brightling, Sussex, UK, farmy planting up
              specimin trees in tree shelters. I'll post some photos up maybe. I
              might actually be selling all or some of the 40 acres I have there
              because people keep phoning me up from adverts previous placed on the
              web and Permy mag and the like. If I do this I'll put legal covenants
              on the trees (or legal equivalents to replace them if the die) in the
              woodend shelters and on the species rich meadow as well. Then maybe
              do the same thing somewhere else!

              Very nice over there. Problem with deer poachers at the moment - the
              price for fallow deer carcus has gone up from £20 to £60 sold to
              illegal game dealers. Dan has made citizens arrests on 3 separate
              poachers, held them until the cops arrive. I understand that the cops
              just let them go because they say they don't know where the
              boundaries are. Maybe I should put some 'private property no poaching
              signs up'. Then they'll have no excuse.

              The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in the
              week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
              £28....so I have few grands worth of Larch, ut again if someone buys
              it immenently they might want that for making roundwood buildings.
              Good article by Ben Law in this montsh 'Smallwoods Magazine'

              "A wood of my own" (in half baked idiotic voice). Urgh too much. Was
              always against landowners. Dont seem to get that much of buzz from it
              really. I Prefer the vibe of squatting for camps/parties really.
              Woodlands should be collectivly/tribally owned like Alpine forests
              and old Amdo.

              But then on the other hand money can be made and drugs and rich food
              and so on can be bought (burp)

              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes I've planted of of Hazels grown from seed - 'Kent Cobbs' which
              > are actually fiberts...I did have some filbert seed also this year
              > which didn't germinate. I have been a bit slack perhaps on
              conifers,
              > but I understand that Pinus Pinea is the best to try in this
              > location. Germination of other edibles pine seed is more difficult
              > than Pinus Pinea. I've tried Pinion Pine - nothing. I think I'd
              have
              > to buy in trees to have these species as specimin trees.
              >
              >
              > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@> wrote:
              > >
              > > No Hazelnuts,?
              > > there are lots of possible Corylus spp and cultivars..
              > > and then all the possible Pine nuts - Pinions..
              > > Pinus koraiensis and P cembra and P sibirica, P cembroides etc....
              > >
              > > Geir Flatabø
              > >
              > > 2008/10/21 Jim <cromlech108@>
              > >
              > > > List of varieties of nut seed planted 2007/8 season:
              > > >
              > > > Location: outside and in cold greenhouse in Kent, UK.
              > > >
              > > > RESULTS 22/10/08
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > From Grimo Nuts:(all outside)
              > > >
              > > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - Broadview good, Combe
              > > > v.good
              > > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3, Good
              > > > Buartnut - Not sprouted yet, seed intact
              > > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - Good
              > > > Hican, var. Burton - Good
              > > > Shellbark Hickory - Good
              > > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson, V.good
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Schumachers: (outside)
              > > >
              > > > Pecan (improved) variety Burkett - V.good
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Sandeman: (cold greenhouse)
              > > >
              > > > Quercus ilex Ballota - Nothing, rotted, probably soil too moist
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Forestart (cold greenhouse)
              > > >
              > > > Monkey Puzzle - OK
              > > >
              > > > Pineus Pinea - V.good
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Almonds and pecans from Christmas nut packs - Almonds ok, rest
              > poor
              > > >
              > > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf
              mold) -
              > > > still nothing
              > > >
              > > > Lots of native oak - Ok
              > > >
              > > > Following all in cold greenhouse:
              > > >
              > > > Best Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury - Nothing, rotted, soil too
              > moist
              > > > probably
              > > >
              > > > Walnuts from farm shop at Pembury - Nothing
              > > >
              > > > Sweet Chestnuts from ART both directly from Riverford Farm
              Shop -
              > > > Nothing, rotted, soil too moist.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The sweet chestnuts and Quercus Ilex Ballota were planted early,
              > > > before Christmas...and stupidly the soil was too moist and the
              > seed
              > > > rotted before the warmer weather arrived to start growth.
              > (annoying
              > > > waste of time and seed)... So next time I'll use much drier
              > compost
              > > > with the stuff I plant early. Grimo seed was planted late
              probably
              > > > fortunatly due to it being sent from the USA by surface mail
              > rather
              > > > than airmail. The stuff from Grimo has done really well.
              > Buartnuts
              > > > from Schmachers I seem to recall from previous years was
              > consistantly
              > > > large nuts and germinated ok. I would appreciate any
              suggestings
              > for
              > > > other nut species and best sources for this region by the way.
              > > >
              > > > Time to put that seed order in folks!!!
              > > >
              > > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "cromlech108" <cromlech108@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi everyone ESPECIALLY TEMPERATE NUT GROWERS LOOK!
              > > > >
              > > > > The seasons well advanced now here in the UK, everything lush
              > and
              > > > > green. I thought I'd post up which varieties of nut seeds I've
              > > > planted
              > > > > this year, - and where its sourced from. The broadleaves have
              > been
              > > > > planted in the feartliser/compost etc plastic sacks cut down
              and
              > > > > filled with compost/leafmold. The bottoms of sacks are
              puntured
              > to
              > > > > give drainage and placed out of reach of the nut growers
              > menace -
              > > > the
              > > > > introduced to the UK, american grey (and now black mutated)
              > > > squirrel.
              > > > > The Pecans were planted in large plastic pots. All containers
              > are
              > > > > labelled.
              > > > >
              > > > > I would recommend that you get air mail delivery rather than
              > surface
              > > > > mail if required because you'll be waiting...and waiting..and
              > > > waiting
              > > > > otherwise. Remember that many varities need cold
              stratification
              > of
              > > > up
              > > > > to 90 days. In terms of 'Exotics' (here in the UK), some
              years
              > they
              > > > > seem to sprout well, other years nothing. (i.e. Butternuts,
              > > > Heartnuts,
              > > > > Buartnuts, Pecans, Walnuts, Hickorys etc.
              > > > > I seem not to have got any Butternuts this year - Ernie Grimo
              > must
              > > > > have been out of them. I have a few growing from 2 years ago
              > that
              > > > are
              > > > > to planted out this winter in my East Sussex nut grove.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Seed placed outside in cold and shady in winter, closed off
              side
              > > > > passage that the grey squirrels don't seem to have sussed,
              this
              > > > seems
              > > > > to provide the required cold startification:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > From Grimo Nuts, a sound supplier at $10/lb:
              > > > >
              > > > > Persian Walnut, var. Broadview and Combe - good germination
              > > > > Heartnut, var. Campbell CW3
              > > > > Buartnut
              > > > > Black Walnut, var. Potsdam - good germination
              > > > > Hican, var. Burton
              > > > > Shellbark Hickory
              > > > > Shagbark Hickory, var. Neilson
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Schumachers:
              > > > >
              > > > > Pecan improved (variety Burkett) - The best Pecan in terms of
              > > > > germination and nut size I've seen so far. (these were cold
              > > > stratified
              > > > > for 90 days in the fridge and have just been planted - some
              were
              > > > > splitting openwhen planted)
              > > > > Oh I got some very nice large consistantly sized Buartnuts
              > (hybrids
              > > > of
              > > > > Butternuts and Heartnuts) from Schumachers last year, but the
              > seed
              > > > was
              > > > > eaten I think :(
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > In The Greenhouse:
              > > > >
              > > > > Sandeman:
              > > > >
              > > > > Quercus ilex Ballota - The largest were selected from the
              > seedpack.
              > > > > The rest were tainted with creosote and planted out in an
              > abandoned
              > > > > Orchard, plus on or two carefully selected areas of freshly
              > felled
              > > > > conifers on Forestry Commission estate near where I have a
              > cottage
              > > > on
              > > > > Anglesey. Thats a whole story actually! I also planted small
              > trees
              > > > of
              > > > > pecan, walnut and chestnut etc etc on this site. I removed
              some
              > > > samll
              > > > > conifers that were there previously. Guess what happened
              next?
              > I got
              > > > > 'raided' by North Wales Police, including the Countryside
              > Council
              > > > for
              > > > > Wales specialist wildlife cop... and even 2 camera people
              from
              > the
              > > > BBC
              > > > > who were doing a film on wildlife crime in Wales. (look out
              for
              > the
              > > > > show - a silent geezer with dreads being lead away to a
              waiting
              > cop
              > > > > car). There are 600 acres of conifers up there. Craig
              > Shuttleworth
              > > > of
              > > > > the Anglesey Red Squirrel Project thinks there should be even
              > more.
              > > > He
              > > > > fitted me up badly! Luckily the cops were actually impressed
              I
              > think
              > > > > with what I was actually doing and no charges under the
              > wildlife and
              > > > > countryside act (damaging the habitate of an endangered
              > species -
              > > > the
              > > > > Red Squirrel) were filed.) I was just formally cautioned for
              > > > criminal
              > > > > damage. Anyone know this guy Craig Shuttleworth? - try and
              get
              > him
              > > > to
              > > > > back off please. We'll be appreciative of those nut trees in
              the
              > > > > future...and he keep trying to plant more f'ing conifers
              where
              > the
              > > > nut
              > > > > trees have been planted. Most of the forest should be native
              > > > greenwood
              > > > > , plus areas of nutting and fruiting trees. The era of
              > > > coniferistaion
              > > > > is over. Red Squirrels are native animals who like a native
              tree
              > > > cover
              > > > > the best. Grey squirrels have been eliminated from Anglesey,
              so
              > > > > competition from this species is not an issue.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Forestart:
              > > > >
              > > > > Monkey Puzzle - good but slightly slow germination
              > > > >
              > > > > Pineus Pinea - good germination (cold stratified for 28 days
              in
              > sand
              > > > > in fridge, other people say plant instantly after 2 days soak
              in
              > > > water)
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Also:
              > > > >
              > > > > Almonds (good quick germination) and pecans from Christmas
              nut
              > packs
              > > > >
              > > > > Heartnuts from previous year (unsprouted in Sacks of leaf
              mold)
              > > > >
              > > > > Lots of the special native oak from different areas and
              > different
              > > > > trees. Good germination. Blessed be!
              > > > >
              > > > > Best selected local Sweet Chestnuts from Pembury
              > > > >
              > > > > Walnuts from local farm shop at Pembury
              > > > >
              > > > > Sweet Chestnuts from the legendary Agroforestry Research
              Trust,
              > both
              > > > > directly and from Riverford Farm Shop
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > I've heard the cherries from good trees can be germinated by
              > just
              > > > > leaving them on the surface of the soil in pots.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • MelC
              Jim. thought you might like to know that of the ten Pecan nuts you kindly gave me, nine have germinated and are growing strongly. Now in pots, they were
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 23, 2008
                Jim. thought you might like to know that of the ten Pecan nuts you kindly gave me, nine have germinated and are growing strongly. Now in pots, they were germinated in an old compost sack, in compost & leaf mould, hidden away in undergrowth, but protected from munching wildlife!
                It will not now be necessary to 'guerilla' plant them, as the once MOD land has been purchased by a gentleman in our village, who plans to leave it exactly as it is, and we shall be able to plant and tend them without interference.
                Thanks for your generosity.
                Mel.




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jim
                ... Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices for Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and costs £6-8/ton),
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 24, 2008
                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@...> wrote:

                  > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in the
                  > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                  > £28

                  Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices for
                  Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                  costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price is
                  £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                  firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside - £38/ton.
                  More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can extract
                  the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around 1000
                  tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just goes
                  to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                  softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural traditional
                  coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on any
                  level basically, even profit maximisation.

                  Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags by
                  giving them £100.

                  Blessings
                • Jim
                  ... kindly gave me, nine have germinated and are growing strongly. Now in pots, they were germinated in an old compost sack, in compost & leaf mould, hidden
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 24, 2008
                    --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, MelC <omcflo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Jim. thought you might like to know that of the ten Pecan nuts you
                    kindly gave me, nine have germinated and are growing strongly. Now in
                    pots, they were germinated in an old compost sack, in compost & leaf
                    mould, hidden away in undergrowth, but protected from munching wildlife!
                    > It will not now be necessary to 'guerilla' plant them, as the once
                    MOD land has been purchased by a gentleman in our village, who plans to
                    leave it exactly as it is, and we shall be able to plant and tend them
                    without interference.
                    > Thanks for your generosity.
                    > Mel.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Frank Bowman
                    (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably just described the world money making system, and the saints who do it, and do the rest of
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 24, 2008
                      (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably just described the world money making system, and the saints who do it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here, you can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!

                      (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I wont philosophise again, I promise)


                      "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb

                      So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_simplicity and http://www.simpleliving.net/content/custom_voluntary_simplicity_part_1.asp

                      Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is about us, it is -
                      The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing, matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement, permaculture, forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see www.gift-economy.com

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jim
                      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                      Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted 2007/8 season with comments:


                      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@...> wrote:

                      > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in the
                      > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                      > £28

                      Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices for
                      Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                      costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price is
                      £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                      firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside - £38/ton.
                      More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can extract
                      the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around 1000
                      tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just goes
                      to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                      softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural traditional
                      coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on any
                      level basically, even profit maximisation.

                      Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags by
                      giving them £100.

                      Blessings





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jim
                      R! I see you joined the group then Frank. Welcome. But please have some respect for the space and don t feel you immediately have to start bad mouthing me in
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 28, 2008
                        R! I see you joined the group then Frank.

                        Welcome.

                        But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                        immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean as I
                        said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                        from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.

                        I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                        come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have you
                        been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                        changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut the
                        fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear, my
                        fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.

                        As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of the
                        western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                        reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                        happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!

                        Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it could
                        be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                        local community in the way that many genuine community
                        permaculture/forest garden projects have. Its really stretching the
                        truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the added
                        input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to be
                        handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new agers
                        PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship shape,
                        which to be quite honest, it isn't now.

                        Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the grow
                        bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                        talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                        slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                        pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!

                        Ok, thats enough of the B/S.

                        Blessings.


                        Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                        reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                        That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                        respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.


                        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                        just described the world money making system, and the saints who do
                        it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                        giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                        words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here, you
                        can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                        good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                        taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                        >
                        > (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                        wont philosophise again, I promise)
                        >
                        >
                        > "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                        polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                        realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                        >
                        > So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                        up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_simplicity and
                        http://www.simpleliving.net/content/custom_voluntary_simplicity_part_1
                        .asp
                        >
                        > Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                        about us, it is -
                        > The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                        operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                        matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement, permaculture,
                        forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                        www.gift-economy.com
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Jim
                        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                        > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                        planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <cromlech108@> wrote:
                        >
                        > > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                        the
                        > > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                        > > £28
                        >
                        > Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices
                        for
                        > Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                        > costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price
                        is
                        > £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                        > firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                        £38/ton.
                        > More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                        extract
                        > the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                        1000
                        > tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                        goes
                        > to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                        > softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                        traditional
                        > coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                        any
                        > level basically, even profit maximisation.
                        >
                        > Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                        by
                        > giving them £100.
                        >
                        > Blessings
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Dee Harris
                        I m going to be honest here. It isn t only the fruit bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help to give shelter as well. I would love
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 28, 2008
                          I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it. I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in Houston, Texas.
                          Wolf


                           




                          --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim <cromlech108@...> wrote:

                          From: Jim <cromlech108@...>
                          Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM






                          R! I see you joined the group then Frank.

                          Welcome.

                          But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                          immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean as I
                          said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                          from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.

                          I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                          come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have you
                          been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                          changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut the
                          fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear, my
                          fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.

                          As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of the
                          western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                          reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                          happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!

                          Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it could
                          be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                          local community in the way that many genuine community
                          permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching the
                          truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the added
                          input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to be
                          handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new agers
                          PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship shape,
                          which to be quite honest, it isn't now.

                          Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the grow
                          bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                          talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                          slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                          pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!

                          Ok, thats enough of the B/S.

                          Blessings.

                          Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                          reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                          That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                          respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.

                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                          just described the world money making system, and the saints who do
                          it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                          giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                          words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here, you
                          can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                          good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                          taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                          >
                          > (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                          wont philosophise again, I promise)
                          >
                          >
                          > "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                          polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                          realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                          >
                          > So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                          up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                          http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                          http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_ simplicity_ part_1
                          .asp
                          >
                          > Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                          about us, it is -
                          > The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                          operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                          matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement, permaculture,
                          forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                          www.gift-economy. com
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Jim
                          > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                          > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                          > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                          planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                          >
                          > > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                          the
                          > > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                          > > £28
                          >
                          > Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices
                          for
                          > Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                          > costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price
                          is
                          > £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                          > firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                          £38/ton.
                          > More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                          extract
                          > the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                          1000
                          > tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                          goes
                          > to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                          > softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                          traditional
                          > coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                          any
                          > level basically, even profit maximisation.
                          >
                          > Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                          by
                          > giving them £100.
                          >
                          > Blessings
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >


















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
                          Hi Jim, Im very sorry. I didnt mean to bad mouth you, i didnt know i had, i dont know you to put you down anyway, so please dont take it that way. Thanks for
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                            Hi Jim, Im very sorry. I didnt mean to bad mouth you, i didnt know i had, i dont know you to put you down anyway, so please dont take it that way. Thanks for saying. Societies downers are bad enough,and so any person making a happier world,which im sure you are, needs a hand, support,¬ their head done in. I thought you made a good point about the amazingness of the inequality. of people,of us.

                            Its an enjoyable sporty race for the top,for riches, for some,and not so enjoyable race for others just to survive,and race just to keep your head above water.
                            Xfrank

                            Jim wrote:
                            > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                            > Welcome.
                            > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                            > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean as I
                            > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                            > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                            > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                            > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have you
                            > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                            > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut the
                            > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear, my
                            > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                            > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of the
                            > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                            > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                            > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                            > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it could
                            > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                            > local community in the way that many genuine community
                            > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching the
                            > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the added
                            > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to be
                            > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new agers
                            > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship shape,
                            > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                            > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the grow
                            > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                            > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                            > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                            > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                            > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                            > Blessings.
                            > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                            > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                            > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                            > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                            > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                            > just described the world money making system, and the saints who do
                            > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                            > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                            > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here, you
                            > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                            > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                            > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                            >>
                            >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                            > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                            > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                            > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                            >>
                            >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                            > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                            > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                            > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_ simplicity_ part_1
                            > .asp
                            >>
                            >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                            > about us, it is -
                            >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                            > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                            > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement, permaculture,
                            > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                            > www.gift-economy. com
                            >>
                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                            >> From: Jim
                            >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                            >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                            >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                            > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                            > the
                            >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                            >> > £28
                            >>
                            >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices
                            > for
                            >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                            >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price
                            > is
                            >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                            >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                            > £38/ton.
                            >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                            > extract
                            >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                            > 1000
                            >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                            > goes
                            >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                            >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                            > traditional
                            >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                            > any
                            >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                            >>
                            >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                            > by
                            >> giving them £100.
                            >>
                            >> Blessings
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >
                          • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
                            Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone needs some. This postage cost
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                              Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                              Xfrank

                              Dee Harris wrote:
                              > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it. I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in Houston, Texas.
                              > Wolf
                              >  
                              > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                              > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                              > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                              > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                              > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                              > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                              > Welcome.
                              > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                              > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean as I
                              > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                              > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                              > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                              > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have you
                              > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                              > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut the
                              > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear, my
                              > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                              > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of the
                              > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                              > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                              > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                              > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it could
                              > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                              > local community in the way that many genuine community
                              > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching the
                              > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the added
                              > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to be
                              > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new agers
                              > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship shape,
                              > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                              > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the grow
                              > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                              > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                              > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                              > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                              > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                              > Blessings.
                              > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                              > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                              > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                              > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                              > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                              > just described the world money making system, and the saints who do
                              > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                              > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                              > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here, you
                              > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                              > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                              > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                              >>
                              >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                              > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                              > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                              > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                              >>
                              >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                              > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                              > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                              > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_ simplicity_ part_1
                              > .asp
                              >>
                              >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                              > about us, it is -
                              >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                              > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                              > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement, permaculture,
                              > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                              > www.gift-economy. com
                              >>
                              >> ----- Original Message -----
                              >> From: Jim
                              >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                              >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                              >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                              > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                              >>
                              >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                              > the
                              >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                              >> > £28
                              >>
                              >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill prices
                              > for
                              >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle and
                              >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside price
                              > is
                              >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                              >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                              > £38/ton.
                              >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                              > extract
                              >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                              > 1000
                              >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                              > goes
                              >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                              >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                              > traditional
                              >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                              > any
                              >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                              >>
                              >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                              > by
                              >> giving them £100.
                              >>
                              >> Blessings
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Jim
                              No worries Frank. We are basically on the same one in terms of germination methods, species, ethic and the sharing ethic also. I don t know how old you are m8,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                                No worries Frank. We are basically on the same one in terms of
                                germination methods, species, ethic and the sharing ethic also. I
                                don't know how old you are m8, but it got to the point where I
                                thought I need to make some dash so I can travel etc, and doing some
                                dodgy capitalist land deal was the only way I could see to make any
                                serious money. Sure I was lucky enough to have access to some family
                                capital, but how I am doing it, and what I am doing with the money is
                                general ethical. For example I sold on some land to a permaculturist.
                                The deal was actually very stressful, but I persevered because
                                despite the buyers fobiles, I knew that he would be doing something
                                sound with the land rather than grazing horses. So I think its ok to
                                win when 'playing the game', rather than being suckered all the time.
                                There are other issues that impelled me to win at this game that I
                                don't want to discuss here. Its also enabled me also been able to
                                give cash to causes like Leonard Peltier, (who is an amazing warrior
                                by the way Frank) Black Mesa Indigenous Support and the like. And
                                they are good causes that need the cash desparatly by the way if
                                anyone would like to accumulate some good karma merit! Because thats
                                the way it works in India, and you can actually feel the change in
                                your consciousness when you give in a worthwhile way there, which is
                                why people do it - for there own benefit rather than being do gooders
                                as such. I can also do nut and fruit tree projects such as shown on
                                the PFAF photo album, and as I said before, this doesn't mean that I
                                have lost faith in any way in tribal/collective land
                                tenure/managment, or sharing in general. Its just time passes, time
                                passes, you get older and no society wide change to sharing reality
                                hasn't happened and you need to survive, and do things and so on.
                                Reality! I do think that the Bangor Uni Forest Garden project could
                                do with being handed over in managment terms to a keen group of
                                locals, you know what I mean, then the place would have much more
                                work input basically, and there is much work that needs doing there.
                                (for a start weeding). There are projects like this in other places.

                                PFAF group is the ideal medium for sharing stuff to do with edible
                                plants, because of corse thats what we are all into! So for example
                                if I sell the larch land, I'll offer the trees I was going to plant
                                there to people on the group for free, again the cash in hand I have
                                allows me to do all this for free including postage, hopefully as a
                                incentive for people to get hold of the seed nuts from the source I
                                gave previously and elsewhere and grow them themselves. Its about
                                sharing knoledge, so that people don't have to keep rediscovering the
                                wheel for themselves, and sharing resources so that the auspicious
                                reality that we have connected into in some way or other is made
                                real. Making it real by direct action! (of one sort or another). Its
                                also true Frank, what I said about the Cree prophecy. I'll find the
                                original quote with references and post it up here. That might not be
                                info that many new agers want to here. I did find a large degree
                                (sick) of illusion, nay mind control, as regards theft of Native
                                American religion in that scene. False medicene makes for false
                                realities that have no real power. Real Native American medicene, in
                                my experience is community wide in effect as it is real tribal
                                medicene. They are also in no way communistic/maoist, in terms of
                                some individuals have tribal shamman type karma, others do not. We
                                are not all equal in that respect. Daniel Zapata (more of a an
                                anarchist than communist in reality) gave me the Eagle Feather for a
                                reason at Ethinog/Brewery field protest camp up there in Bangor.
                                Thats why I'm doing what I'm doing. That is real Native American
                                tribal medicene, not some sort of imitation new ager version. It
                                still upsets me thinking back to the way the Earth First group in
                                Bangor blcoked that energy 10 years ago, when I was very keen to make
                                a anti roads Reclaim the Streets party happen there. Those guys were
                                more communist that collective anarchist - not really awake. Twice
                                the number of people at the meeting as I had networked the idea about
                                town, but the EF! clique insisted on blocked/blackballing me, and the
                                energy of tribal sovereignty that the feather embodied. Not only did
                                they blackball me, but they also try and throw into my face the abuse
                                that happened to my ex partner as described. Thats why I use the word
                                scum. Its appropriate.

                                I would say to young people to be aware and go into things with your
                                eyes open. The games that people play can be very very pathetic and
                                destructive DESPITE the seemingly 'soundness' of the scene.

                                Just so you get the wider picture Frank!

                                Welcome aboard the PFAF wagon!

                                Blessings.

                                Jim
                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "frank_bowman@..." <frank_bowman@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Jim, Im very sorry. I didnt mean to bad mouth you, i didnt know
                                i had, i dont know you to put you down anyway, so please dont take it
                                that way. Thanks for saying. Societies downers are bad enough,and so
                                any person making a happier world,which im sure you are, needs a
                                hand, support,¬ their head done in. I thought you made a good
                                point about the amazingness of the inequality. of people,of us.
                                >
                                > Its an enjoyable sporty race for the top,for riches, for some,and
                                not so enjoyable race for others just to survive,and race just to
                                keep your head above water.
                                > Xfrank
                                >
                                > Jim wrote:
                                > > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                > > Welcome.
                                > > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                > > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                as I
                                > > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                > > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                > > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs
                                to
                                > > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                you
                                > > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                > > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                the
                                > > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                my
                                > > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                > > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                the
                                > > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                > > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                > > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                > > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                could
                                > > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                > > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                > > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                the
                                > > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                added
                                > > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                be
                                > > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                agers
                                > > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                shape,
                                > > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                > > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                grow
                                > > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                > > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                > > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                > > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                > > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                > > Blessings.
                                > > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                > > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                > > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                > > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have
                                probably
                                > > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                do
                                > > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                > > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                > > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                you
                                > > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                > > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these
                                twits
                                > > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                > >>
                                > >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                > > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                > > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                > > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                > >>
                                > >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the
                                earth
                                > > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                > > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                simplicity_ part_1
                                > > .asp
                                > >>
                                > >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing
                                is
                                > > about us, it is -
                                > >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                > > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                > > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                permaculture,
                                > > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives.
                                see
                                > > www.gift-economy. com
                                > >>
                                > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                > >> From: Jim
                                > >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                > >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                > >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                > > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton
                                in
                                > > the
                                > >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered
                                to
                                > >> > £28
                                > >>
                                > >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                prices
                                > > for
                                > >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                and
                                > >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                price
                                > > is
                                > >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                > >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                > > £38/ton.
                                > >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                > > extract
                                > >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                > > 1000
                                > >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR!
                                Just
                                > > goes
                                > >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                > >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                > > traditional
                                > >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational
                                on
                                > > any
                                > >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                > >>
                                > >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in
                                rags
                                > > by
                                > >> giving them £100.
                                > >>
                                > >> Blessings
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >>
                                > >
                                >
                              • Jim
                                You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed itself is deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have some edible Hawthorns
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                                  You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed itself is
                                  deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have
                                  some edible Hawthorns growing, they are producing fruits. I did read
                                  that if you sow the fresh seed inmmediately, then you have a
                                  reasonable chance of germination come spring, otherwise you are
                                  talking up to 2 years stratification!

                                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "frank_bowman@..." <frank_bowman@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive
                                  just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone
                                  needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                                  > Xfrank
                                  >
                                  > Dee Harris wrote:
                                  > > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit
                                  bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help
                                  to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and
                                  others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it.
                                  I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in
                                  Houston, Texas.
                                  > > Wolf
                                  > >  
                                  > > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                                  > > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                  > > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                  planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                  > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                                  > > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                  > > Welcome.
                                  > > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                  > > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                  as I
                                  > > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                  > > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                  > > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                                  > > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                  you
                                  > > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                  > > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                  the
                                  > > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                  my
                                  > > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                  > > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                  the
                                  > > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                  > > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                  > > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                  > > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                  could
                                  > > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                  > > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                  > > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                  the
                                  > > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                  added
                                  > > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                  be
                                  > > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                  agers
                                  > > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                  shape,
                                  > > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                  > > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                  grow
                                  > > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                  > > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                  > > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                  > > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                  > > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                  > > Blessings.
                                  > > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                  > > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                  > > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                  > > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                  > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                                  > > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                  do
                                  > > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                  > > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                  > > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                  you
                                  > > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                  > > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                                  > > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                  > >>
                                  > >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                  > > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                  > > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                  > > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                  > >>
                                  > >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                                  > > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                  > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                  > > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                  simplicity_ part_1
                                  > > .asp
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                                  > > about us, it is -
                                  > >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                  > > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                  > > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                  permaculture,
                                  > > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                                  > > www.gift-economy. com
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                  > >> From: Jim
                                  > >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                  > >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                  > >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                  > > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                                  > > the
                                  > >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                                  > >> > £28
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                  prices
                                  > > for
                                  > >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                  and
                                  > >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                  price
                                  > > is
                                  > >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                  > >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                  > > £38/ton.
                                  > >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                  > > extract
                                  > >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                  > > 1000
                                  > >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                                  > > goes
                                  > >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                  > >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                  > > traditional
                                  > >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                                  > > any
                                  > >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                                  > > by
                                  > >> giving them £100.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Blessings
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Dee Harris
                                  That depends on where you re at, Frank. Wolf   ... From: Jim Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                                    That depends on where you're at, Frank.
                                    Wolf


                                     




                                    --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Jim <cromlech108@...> wrote:

                                    From: Jim <cromlech108@...>
                                    Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                    To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 7:17 AM






                                    You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed itself is
                                    deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have
                                    some edible Hawthorns growing, they are producing fruits. I did read
                                    that if you sow the fresh seed inmmediately, then you have a
                                    reasonable chance of germination come spring, otherwise you are
                                    talking up to 2 years stratification!

                                    --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "frank_bowman@ ..." <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive
                                    just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone
                                    needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                                    > Xfrank
                                    >
                                    > Dee Harris wrote:
                                    > > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit
                                    bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help
                                    to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and
                                    others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it.
                                    I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in
                                    Houston, Texas.
                                    > > Wolf
                                    > >  
                                    > > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                                    > > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                    > > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                    planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                    > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                    > > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                                    > > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                    > > Welcome.
                                    > > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                    > > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                    as I
                                    > > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                    > > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                    > > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                                    > > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                    you
                                    > > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                    > > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                    the
                                    > > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                    my
                                    > > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                    > > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                    the
                                    > > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                    > > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                    > > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                    > > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                    could
                                    > > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                    > > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                    > > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                    the
                                    > > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                    added
                                    > > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                    be
                                    > > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                    agers
                                    > > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                    shape,
                                    > > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                    > > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                    grow
                                    > > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                    > > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                    > > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                    > > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                    > > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                    > > Blessings.
                                    > > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                    > > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                    > > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                    > > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                    > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                                    > > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                    do
                                    > > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                    > > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                    > > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                    you
                                    > > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                    > > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                                    > > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                    > >>
                                    > >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                    > > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                    > > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                    > > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                    > >>
                                    > >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                                    > > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                    > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                    > > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                    simplicity_ part_1
                                    > > .asp
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                                    > > about us, it is -
                                    > >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                    > > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                    > > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                    permaculture,
                                    > > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                                    > > www.gift-economy. com
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    > >> From: Jim
                                    > >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                    > >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                    > >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                    > > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                                    > > the
                                    > >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                                    > >> > £28
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                    prices
                                    > > for
                                    > >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                    and
                                    > >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                    price
                                    > > is
                                    > >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                    > >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                    > > £38/ton.
                                    > >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                    > > extract
                                    > >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                    > > 1000
                                    > >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                                    > > goes
                                    > >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                    > >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                    > > traditional
                                    > >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                                    > > any
                                    > >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                                    > > by
                                    > >> giving them £100.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Blessings
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >>
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >


















                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
                                    Hi. Id really love to get growing big edible hawthorns. If u have some spare seeds to spare thatd be good. Will have to look up what stratification is, is it
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 29, 2008
                                      Hi. Id really love to get growing big edible hawthorns. If u have some spare seeds to spare thatd be good. Will have to look up what stratification is, is it them getting frozen in the winter. I wonder if these long time germination periods are because of the allellopathic effect ive been reading,bcos they say the same about yews. So maybe youve got to plant them far apart.
                                      Xfrank

                                      Jim wrote:
                                      > You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed itself is
                                      > deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have
                                      > some edible Hawthorns growing, they are producing fruits. I did read
                                      > that if you sow the fresh seed inmmediately, then you have a
                                      > reasonable chance of germination come spring, otherwise you are
                                      > talking up to 2 years stratification!
                                      > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "frank_bowman@ ..." <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive
                                      > just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone
                                      > needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                                      >> Xfrank
                                      >>
                                      >> Dee Harris wrote:
                                      >> > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit
                                      > bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help
                                      > to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and
                                      > others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it.
                                      > I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in
                                      > Houston, Texas.
                                      >> > Wolf
                                      >> >  
                                      >> > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                                      >> > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                      >> > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                      > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                      >> > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                      >> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                                      >> > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                      >> > Welcome.
                                      >> > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                      >> > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                      > as I
                                      >> > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                      >> > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                      >> > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                                      >> > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                      > you
                                      >> > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                      >> > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                      > the
                                      >> > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                      > my
                                      >> > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                      >> > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                      > the
                                      >> > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                      >> > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                      >> > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                      >> > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                      > could
                                      >> > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                      >> > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                      >> > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                      > the
                                      >> > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                      > added
                                      >> > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                      > be
                                      >> > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                      > agers
                                      >> > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                      > shape,
                                      >> > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                      >> > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                      > grow
                                      >> > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                      >> > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                      >> > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                      >> > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                      >> > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                      >> > Blessings.
                                      >> > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                      >> > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                      >> > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                      >> > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                      >> > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                                      >> > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                      > do
                                      >> > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                      >> > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                      >> > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                      > you
                                      >> > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                      >> > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                                      >> > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                      >> > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                      >> > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                      >> > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                                      >> > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                      >> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                      >> > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                      > simplicity_ part_1
                                      >> > .asp
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                                      >> > about us, it is -
                                      >> >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                      >> > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                      >> > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                      > permaculture,
                                      >> > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                                      >> > www.gift-economy. com
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> ----- Original Message -----
                                      >> >> From: Jim
                                      >> >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                      >> >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                      >> >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                      >> > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                                      >> > the
                                      >> >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                                      >> >> > £28
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                      > prices
                                      >> > for
                                      >> >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                      > and
                                      >> >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                      > price
                                      >> > is
                                      >> >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                      >> >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                      >> > £38/ton.
                                      >> >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                      >> > extract
                                      >> >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                      >> > 1000
                                      >> >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                                      >> > goes
                                      >> >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                      >> >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                      >> > traditional
                                      >> >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                                      >> > any
                                      >> >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                                      >> > by
                                      >> >> giving them £100.
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> Blessings
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >>
                                      >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >> >>
                                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >> >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                    • Geir Flatabø
                                      I could send you Crataegus succulenta, bland taste. and possibly Crataegus orientalis (?) tastes like peaches Geir Flatabø 2008/10/29 frank_bowman@yahoo.co.uk
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 30, 2008
                                        I could send you Crataegus succulenta, bland taste.
                                        and possibly Crataegus orientalis (?) tastes like peaches

                                        Geir Flatabø


                                        2008/10/29 frank_bowman@... <frank_bowman@...>

                                        > Hi. Id really love to get growing big edible hawthorns. If u have some
                                        > spare seeds to spare thatd be good. Will have to look up what stratification
                                        > is, is it them getting frozen in the winter. I wonder if these long time
                                        > germination periods are because of the allellopathic effect ive been
                                        > reading,bcos they say the same about yews. So maybe youve got to plant them
                                        > far apart.
                                        > Xfrank
                                        >
                                        > Jim wrote:
                                        > > You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed
                                        > itself is
                                        > > deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have
                                        > > some edible Hawthorns growing, they are producing fruits. I did read
                                        > > that if you sow the fresh seed inmmediately, then you have a
                                        > > reasonable chance of germination come spring, otherwise you are
                                        > > talking up to 2 years stratification!
                                        > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "frank_bowman@ ..." <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive
                                        > > just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone
                                        > > needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                                        > >> Xfrank
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Dee Harris wrote:
                                        > >> > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit
                                        > > bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help
                                        > > to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and
                                        > > others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it.
                                        > > I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in
                                        > > Houston, Texas.
                                        > >> > Wolf
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                                        > >> > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                        > >> > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                        > > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                        > >> > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                        > >> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                                        > >> > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                        > >> > Welcome.
                                        > >> > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                        > >> > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                        > > as I
                                        > >> > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                        > >> > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                        > >> > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                                        > >> > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                        > > you
                                        > >> > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                        > >> > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                        > > the
                                        > >> > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                        > > my
                                        > >> > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                        > >> > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                        > > the
                                        > >> > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                        > >> > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                        > >> > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                        > >> > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                        > > could
                                        > >> > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                        > >> > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                        > >> > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                        > > the
                                        > >> > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                        > > added
                                        > >> > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                        > > be
                                        > >> > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                        > > agers
                                        > >> > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                        > > shape,
                                        > >> > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                        > >> > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                        > > grow
                                        > >> > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                        > >> > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                        > >> > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                        > >> > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                        > >> > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                        > >> > Blessings.
                                        > >> > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                        > >> > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                        > >> > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                        > >> > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                        > >> > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                                        > >> > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                        > > do
                                        > >> > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                        > >> > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                        > >> > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                        > > you
                                        > >> > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                        > >> > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                                        > >> > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                        > >> > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                        > >> > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                        > >> > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                                        > >> > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                        > >> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                        > >> > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                        > > simplicity_ part_1
                                        > >> > .asp
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                                        > >> > about us, it is -
                                        > >> >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                        > >> > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                        > >> > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                        > > permaculture,
                                        > >> > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                                        > >> > www.gift-economy. com
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
                                        > >> >> From: Jim
                                        > >> >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                        > >> >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                        > >> >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                        > >> > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                                        > >> > the
                                        > >> >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                                        > >> >> > £28
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                        > > prices
                                        > >> > for
                                        > >> >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                        > > and
                                        > >> >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                        > > price
                                        > >> > is
                                        > >> >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                        > >> >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                        > >> > £38/ton.
                                        > >> >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                        > >> > extract
                                        > >> >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                        > >> > 1000
                                        > >> >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                                        > >> > goes
                                        > >> >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                        > >> >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                        > >> > traditional
                                        > >> >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                                        > >> > any
                                        > >> >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                                        > >> > by
                                        > >> >> giving them £100.
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> Blessings
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >> >>
                                        > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >> >
                                        > >>
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jim
                                        I ve just ordered 2 kilos of Agroforestry Research Trust (ART) sweet chestnuts from: http://www.riverfordfarmshop.co.uk/riverfordfarmshops/staverton.html They
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Oct 30, 2008
                                          I've just ordered 2 kilos of Agroforestry Research Trust (ART) sweet
                                          chestnuts from:

                                          http://www.riverfordfarmshop.co.uk/riverfordfarmshops/staverton.html

                                          They are going to get back to me with a price for postage. They were
                                          about £2.50 for a bag that is approx 450 grams. I warned them that
                                          there might be other orders. They want payment by cheque only unless
                                          you are there in person.

                                          ART chestnuts are from grafted cultivars that do well in the UK. I
                                          would recommend that you grow these rather than wild or southern
                                          European varieties especially if you favour nut production. They
                                          cannot be guarenteed to be as good croppers as the cultivar Mother
                                          tree, but will have similar characteristics.

                                          ART supply these themselves now, so if you are outside the UK, Martin
                                          should be able to sort you out with payment by debit/credit card.

                                          From ART's guide: Chestnuts Production and Culture by Martin
                                          Crawford...

                                          Propagation by seed

                                          Trees in Britain fruit in most years, but the fruits only ripen
                                          properly in warm summers although good fruiting cultivars should
                                          perform better. The seeds from wild trees usually range from 150 to
                                          330/Kg, averaging 240 seeds/Kg (109/1b) of which 175 are viable. They
                                          ripen in October, either falling from the prickly husks or falling
                                          intact with them, in which case they must be freed by treading on.

                                          Chestnut seeds are not dormant and are difficult to store; they
                                          should be sown immediately. If you cannot sow them immediately, store
                                          in cool, moist, airy conditions in shallow layers, turning daily.

                                          The seeds are extremely attractive to mice and squirrels, and if
                                          you're brave enough to sow in outside seed beds (at 100 seeds/m\ make
                                          sure they are well protected. More reliably, sow in deep pots which
                                          are kept off the ground. The seeds germinate very quickly, sending
                                          down roots over the winter; shoots emerge during the spring, and
                                          young plants should be protected against late frosts as these will
                                          cut them back severely - if possible, keep in a frame, tunnel or
                                          greenhouse until late May. Once the seedlings are a few inches high,
                                          they can be planted out into a nursery bed, or kept in deep pots if
                                          large enough. Typical first year growth is 1 Q..50 cm (8-20"), and
                                          one-year seedlings can often be planted out for forestry or coppice
                                          use.
                                        • Mr frank bowman
                                          Hi. Thats great thanks. I cant believe my luck with this site. Ive been silent cos got so much on. I cant just go on the net because ive got to set it all up
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Oct 31, 2008
                                            Hi. Thats great thanks. I cant believe my luck with this site. Ive been silent cos got so much on. I cant just go on the net because ive got to set it all up every time&got slow mobile connection&can somtimes take 1/2 hour just sending an email. This is by phone. Will reply properly nxt couple days. :-) xfrank

                                            Geir Flatabø wrote:
                                            > I could send you Crataegus succulenta, bland taste.
                                            > and possibly Crataegus orientalis (?) tastes like peaches
                                            > Geir Flatabø
                                            > 2008/10/29 frank_bowman@ yahoo.co. uk < frank_bowman@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                            >> Hi. Id really love to get growing big edible hawthorns. If u have some
                                            >> spare seeds to spare thatd be good. Will have to look up what stratification
                                            >> is, is it them getting frozen in the winter. I wonder if these long time
                                            >> germination periods are because of the allellopathic effect ive been
                                            >> reading,bcos they say the same about yews. So maybe youve got to plant them
                                            >> far apart.
                                            >> Xfrank
                                            >>
                                            >> Jim wrote:
                                            >> > You can eat the flesh surrounding the seed, but the seed
                                            >> itself is
                                            >> > deadly poisonous. Not sure how easy they are to germinate. Now I have
                                            >> > some edible Hawthorns growing, they are producing fruits. I did read
                                            >> > that if you sow the fresh seed inmmediately, then you have a
                                            >> > reasonable chance of germination come spring, otherwise you are
                                            >> > talking up to 2 years stratification!
                                            >> > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com , "frank_bowman@ ..." <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                            >> > wrote:
                                            >> >>
                                            >> >> Hi. Thats funny, last night i washed out lots of yew seeds. Ive
                                            >> > just found out you could eat them. So ive got hundreds if anyone
                                            >> > needs some. This postage cost needs looking at though.
                                            >> >> Xfrank
                                            >> >>
                                            >> >> Dee Harris wrote:
                                            >> >> > I'm going to be honest here. It isn't only the fruit
                                            >> > bearing trees that we need to be concerned with, but those who help
                                            >> > to give shelter as well. I would love to see some yew trees and
                                            >> > others around. If someone has the seeds I would really appreciate it.
                                            >> > I'm sure that I can come up with some healthy acorns from oak here in
                                            >> > Houston, Texas.
                                            >> >> > Wolf
                                            >> >> >
                                            >> >> > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk > wrote:
                                            >> >> > From: Jim < cromlech108@ yahoo.co. uk >
                                            >> >> > Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                            >> > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                            >> >> > To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                            >> >> > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 6:07 PM
                                            >> >> > R! I see you joined the group then Frank.
                                            >> >> > Welcome.
                                            >> >> > But please have some respect for the space and don't feel you
                                            >> >> > immediately have to start bad mouthing me in public! A/H! I mean
                                            >> > as I
                                            >> >> > said to you previously by emnail, I've frankly had enough of that
                                            >> >> > from new age scum with no idea what-so-ever in North Wales.
                                            >> >> > I'm not exploitating anything or anyone Frank. The larch needs to
                                            >> >> > come out so that native trees and edibles can be planted. Have
                                            >> > you
                                            >> >> > been to India, have you seen the bliss when you give a reality
                                            >> >> > changing break to one street living human being? No? Then shut
                                            >> > the
                                            >> >> > fuk up please! And by the way I worked, I have worked Frank dear,
                                            >> > my
                                            >> >> > fuking ass off to do the deals that got the cash in.
                                            >> >> > As you know full well, I'm fully aware of the driving force of
                                            >> > the
                                            >> >> > western money system/reality, and thus am am working to change
                                            >> >> > reality by sharing and doing it out in the community to make it
                                            >> >> > happen there. Direct action is a powerful force!
                                            >> >> > Yes the Bangor university forest garden project is ok - but it
                                            >> > could
                                            >> >> > be much better because it doesn't REALLY have much input from the
                                            >> >> > local community in the way that many genuine community
                                            >> >> > permaculture/ forest garden projects have. Its really stretching
                                            >> > the
                                            >> >> > truth to say its a 'co-op' - Its a university project, with the
                                            >> > added
                                            >> >> > input of volunteers now and again...but I would say it needs to
                                            >> > be
                                            >> >> > handed over to a committed group of indigenous people (not new
                                            >> > agers
                                            >> >> > PLU-EASE) who will get that garden right up to speed and ship
                                            >> > shape,
                                            >> >> > which to be quite honest, it isn't now.
                                            >> >> > Grow bag method - yes its sounds ok, but why bother buying the
                                            >> > grow
                                            >> >> > bags? just use leafmold! Hello Frank?! are you listening and not
                                            >> >> > talking for once?... I've sussed a method that is similar but
                                            >> >> > slightly different from yours, its not a competition, (covert
                                            >> >> > pyscological games or otherwise) we can use both methods!
                                            >> >> > Ok, thats enough of the B/S.
                                            >> >> > Blessings.
                                            >> >> > Oh and by the way, the original Cree teaching WAS IN ACTUAL FACT
                                            >> >> > reference to Europeans stealing Native American religion/culture.
                                            >> >> > That point that new agers seem conjenitally unable to have some
                                            >> >> > respect for. Jaysus, honestly. TOO MUCH.
                                            >> >> > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Frank Bowman" <frank_bowman@ ...>
                                            >> > wrote:
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> (IM being ironic here) You sound like a saint! You have probably
                                            >> >> > just described the world money making system, and the saints who
                                            >> > do
                                            >> >> > it, and do the rest of us, in their do gooding money making and
                                            >> >> > giving. 'Here Ive made a lump, you can have a bit.' in other
                                            >> >> > words, 'Here I have taken a lot of the earths resources, here,
                                            >> > you
                                            >> >> > can have a little bit of the earths resources from me, arent I
                                            >> >> > good'. Well actually, no because if it werent for all these twits
                                            >> >> > taking the earths resources, then 'they' wouldnt be short!
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> (Im new here, I know its about growing, and very informative, I
                                            >> >> > wont philosophise again, I promise)
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> "Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is
                                            >> >> > polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they
                                            >> >> > realize that you cannot eat money." Cree Proverb
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> So? --be an outlaw and a rebel, stop eating, consuming the earth
                                            >> >> > up. do living simple and voluntary simplicity instead!
                                            >> >> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Voluntary_ simplicity and
                                            >> >> > http://www.simpleli ving.net/ content/custom_ voluntary_
                                            >> > simplicity_ part_1
                                            >> >> > .asp
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> Gift economy, sharing, = abundance, all fed. sharing is
                                            >> >> > about us, it is -
                                            >> >> >> The gift economy, is community, voluntary work, family, co-
                                            >> >> > operatives, open source, scientific knowledge sharing,
                                            >> >> > matriarchical societies, free cycle, green movement,
                                            >> > permaculture,
                                            >> >> > forest gardening, the earth gives and gives and gives. see
                                            >> >> > www.gift-economy. com
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
                                            >> >> >> From: Jim
                                            >> >> >> To: pfaf@yahoogroups. com
                                            >> >> >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:34 PM
                                            >> >> >> Subject: [pfaf] Re: List of varieties and sources of nut seed
                                            >> >> > planted 2007/8 season with comments:
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Jim" <cromlech108@ > wrote:
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> > The price of softwood slumped from £38 to £20 pounds a ton in
                                            >> >> > the
                                            >> >> >> > week of the banking crisis, but now seems to have recovered to
                                            >> >> >> > £28
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> Just for accuracies sake, the above prices are at the mill
                                            >> > prices
                                            >> >> > for
                                            >> >> >> Larch (you have to arrange delivery yourself, which is hassle
                                            >> > and
                                            >> >> >> costs £6-8/ton), here in the South East of the UK. Roadside
                                            >> > price
                                            >> >> > is
                                            >> >> >> £18/ton from Euroforest, and about £13 from Tillhill. Hardwood
                                            >> >> >> firewood price very strong compared to last year roadside -
                                            >> >> > £38/ton.
                                            >> >> >> More people are getting into woodburners it seems. Dan can
                                            >> >> > extract
                                            >> >> >> the Larch for £11/ton. That gives me £7/ton. There are around
                                            >> >> > 1000
                                            >> >> >> tons. Thats £1000 for Leonard Peltier for a start. WARRIOR! Just
                                            >> >> > goes
                                            >> >> >> to show how silly it was to plant all this non native conifer
                                            >> >> >> softwood, having torn up the native ancient semi natural
                                            >> >> > traditional
                                            >> >> >> coppiced woodlands in the name of economics. A false rational on
                                            >> >> > any
                                            >> >> >> level basically, even profit maximisation.
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> Then I go to India and wander around blissing out people in rags
                                            >> >> > by
                                            >> >> >> giving them £100.
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> Blessings
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >> >> >>
                                            >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >> >> >
                                            >> >>
                                            >> >
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                            >>
                                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
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