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Re: Lotus edulis

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  • sjalge
    ... Caragana arborescens would be great, and I prefer perennial species if I can grow them. Unfortunately, at this point I move around every couple years and
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 29 6:15 AM
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      > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
      > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
      > have - where it may self-seed.
      > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
      > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.

      Caragana arborescens would be great, and I prefer perennial species if
      I can grow them. Unfortunately, at this point I move around every
      couple years and so I am more restricted to annual species. I will be
      sure to add Caragana arborescens to the "if I ever settle down" plant
      wish list.
    • v.scherrer
      In case I conveyed an impression of discouragement, intolerance or a lack of understanding, I m sorry, that was not really what I intended. I was merely trying
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 31 10:02 AM
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        In case I conveyed an impression of discouragement, intolerance or a
        lack of understanding, I'm sorry, that was not really what I intended.
        I was merely trying to hint at a possibly better option for a plant of
        which the seeds seem, at least momentarily, hard to get.
        If there is still a need for more information, I read that people on
        the island of Corsica, France, eat the raw pods of Lotus edulis, and
        that this plant is known there under the common names "faux caroubier"
        and/or "lotier comestible".
        Anybody from Corsica or with contacts there, or the like, following
        this thread?
        Though it does seem to be a plant mostly found in Mediterranean
        regions and thus may have a heat requirement similar to the asparagus
        pea - unless one may be able to find some seeds of strains which grow
        near the limits of its northern range.

        Good luck with finding and growing these!

        Vital


        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:
        >
        > 2008/7/29 v.scherrer <vital233@...>
        >
        > > The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
        > > to asparagus pea.
        > >
        > > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
        > > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
        > > have - where it may self-seed.
        >
        >
        > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
        > might it not be
        > that the whole plant is edible ???
        >
        > Growing Caracana does not exclude other edibles ??
        >
        > Geir FLatabø
        >
        >
        > >
        > > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
        > > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.
        > >
        > > Vital
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • v.scherrer
        ... I don t think that edulis necessarily means that all parts are edible, but at:
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
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          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:

          > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
          > might it not be
          > that the whole plant is edible ???

          I don't think that "edulis" necessarily means that all parts are
          edible, but at:

          http://epic.kew.org/searchepic/detailquery.do;jsessionid=73EEC88396D7D40C8AE79005B6CCC1C6?requiredPage=1&scientificName=Lotus+edulis&datasources=ipni&datasources=mc&datasources=libcat&datasources=ebbd&datasources=ecbot&datasources=livcoll&datasources=herbcat&datasources=sid&datasources=sepasal&datasources=efz&datasources=kewweb&categories=names&categories=bibl&categories=colln&categories=taxon&categories=flora&categories=misc&detailDatasource=sepasal

          it reads:

          "Lotus edulis L.
          Uses: FOOD(Leaves, Seeds); ANIMAL FOOD(Aerial Parts); ENVIRONMENTAL
          USES(Soil Improvers)"

          Another issue with propagation by seed might be, or not, the right
          symbiotic soil bacteria. As I made the unfortunate experience that
          some nitrogen fixing plants can grow very poorly if the proper soil
          bacteria associated with it is not already present in the soil. For
          this reason it might be preferable to get potted plants.

          Vital
        • Gail Lloyd
               edulis in a botanical name only means that some part of the plant (or animal) is edible - not necessarily the whole plant (or animal).      For
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
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                 "edulis" in a botanical name only means that some part of the plant (or animal) is edible - not necessarily the whole plant (or animal).
                 For instance, Pinus edulis has edible pine nuts, you can't eat the needles or the trunk.
                 There is a clam that has a botanical name that includes "edulis" - you wouldn't eat the clam shell.
            Gail
            (horticulturist & M.G.)

            --- On Sun, 8/3/08, v.scherrer <vital233@...> wrote:

            From: v.scherrer <vital233@...>
            Subject: [pfaf] Re: Lotus edulis
            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, August 3, 2


            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:

            > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
            > might it not be
            > that the whole plant is edible ???

            I don't think that "edulis" necessarily means that all parts are
            edible, but at:

            http://epic. kew.org/searchep ic/detailquery. do;jsessionid= 73EEC88396D7D40C 8AE79005B6CCC1C6 ?requiredPage= 1&scientificName =Lotus+edulis& datasources= ipni&datasources =mc&datasources= libcat&datasourc es=ebbd&datasour ces=ecbot& datasources= livcoll&datasour ces=herbcat& datasources= sid&datasources= sepasal&datasour ces=efz&datasour ces=kewweb& categories= names&categories =bibl&categories =colln&categorie s=taxon&categori es=flora& categories= misc&detailDatas ource=sepasal

            it reads:

            "Lotus edulis L.
            Uses: FOOD(Leaves, Seeds); ANIMAL FOOD(Aerial Parts); ENVIRONMENTAL
            USES(Soil Improvers)"

            Another issue with propagation by seed might be, or not, the right
            symbiotic soil bacteria. As I made the unfortunate experience that
            some nitrogen fixing plants can grow very poorly if the proper soil
            bacteria associated with it is not already present in the soil. For
            this reason it might be preferable to get potted plants.

            Vital


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • v.scherrer
            As I have a shortage on herbaceous nitrogen fixers and soil improvers, especially self-seeding ones, let alone ones which yield something reasonably edible,
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
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              As I have a shortage on herbaceous nitrogen fixers and soil improvers,
              especially self-seeding ones, let alone ones which yield something
              reasonably edible, I'm always keeping an eye open for any possible
              option. So I had a look for informations about Lotus edulis and it's
              preferred and/or tolerated living conditions. To get an idea whether
              it might be worth to consider this, one might want to take a look at:

              http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412

              For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:

              http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807

              For my poor and acid soil, so far - after trials with about a dozen
              different at least halfway promissing species - only the sowing of
              Lespedeza cuneata was successful in the long run. Unfortunately it
              doesn't self-seed on my location, but is amazingly shade tolerant.
              Though reportedly a low growing shrub, it grows more like a scraggy
              grass - though the leaves are of course different.
              Among the others I also tried to cultivate the perennial shrub Cajanus
              cajan, the pigeon pea. But either it was one of those missing the
              appropriate soil bacteria, or it wasn't a suitable variety, or both.
            • sjalge
              ... vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina. It makes
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
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                > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412
                >
                > For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:
                >
                > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807

                vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if
                you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina.
                It makes great tea, fixes nitrogen (symbiotically of course) and it
                is clonal so it will spread without having to seed. The Fabaceae form
                symbioses with rhyzobia which are common in many soils, so I would be
                surprised if the lack of their symbiont was the reason for the species
                failing. The way to be more confident in that assessment is to dig
                them up and see if the roots are nodulating. If they are then they
                have most likely found the rhyzobia and are failing due to other
                causes. Hope this helps.
              • v.scherrer
                Thanks a lot! This should help. Although I m pretty well off with nitrogen fixing shrubs, but this plant sounds just so irresistibly desirable - tolerant of
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 5, 2008
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                  Thanks a lot! This should help.
                  Although I'm pretty well off with nitrogen fixing shrubs, but this
                  plant sounds just so irresistibly desirable - tolerant of drought, of
                  acid and poor soil - I've got more than I could wish for of that - and
                  a size which is not likely to demand any effort - definitely a must
                  have for my collection. Though it may not fruit due to low chill
                  winters, but I wouldn't expect it suffer otherwise from lack of cold.

                  Re rhyzobia, I read once that such plants may nodulate anyway, but
                  that one can tell whether they are actually fixing nitrogen, if the
                  nodules are brownish inside, rather than white.
                  According to some sources of information, even within the family of
                  the Fabaceae, there are many different species or genera which require
                  different rhyzobia.


                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412
                  > >
                  > > For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:
                  > >
                  > > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807
                  >
                  > vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if
                  > you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina.
                  > It makes great tea, fixes nitrogen (symbiotically of course) and it
                  > is clonal so it will spread without having to seed. The Fabaceae form
                  > symbioses with rhyzobia which are common in many soils, so I would be
                  > surprised if the lack of their symbiont was the reason for the species
                  > failing. The way to be more confident in that assessment is to dig
                  > them up and see if the roots are nodulating. If they are then they
                  > have most likely found the rhyzobia and are failing due to other
                  > causes. Hope this helps.
                  >
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