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Re: Lotus edulis

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  • v.scherrer
    Just in case, Lotus edulis, which is a trefoil of sandy, stony and rocky places, is not to be confused with the water lotus, Nelumbo nucifera or -lutea. I
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 26, 2008
      Just in case, Lotus edulis, which is a trefoil of sandy, stony and
      rocky places, is not to be confused with the water lotus, Nelumbo
      nucifera or -lutea.
      I found a supplier in Germany:

      www.biosaatgut.eu/detail.php?n=Lotus_edulis&detail=102&cat_id=bloemen1

      Just let me know if you like some more help.

      Cheerios

      Vital



      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have found very little information about this species on the web. I
      > would like to try growing it in the United States. Does anyone know
      > of a seed source? If I cannot find a seed source I would at least
      > like to take a picture of it at Kew when I am there in a month. Does
      > anyone know where they grow it there (keeping in mind it will be my
      > first trip to Kew so I do not have a good sense of the place)? Thanks.
      >
    • daniel wildman
      Here is a muti-search: http://www.bjorgul.com/ ... From: sjalge To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:02:42 AM Subject:
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 26, 2008
        Here is a muti-search:
        http://www.bjorgul.com/


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: sjalge <sjalge@...>
        To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:02:42 AM
        Subject: [pfaf] Re: Lotus edulis



        Dan - Thanks, I have used Google (and other engines) to search and
        found those sites, but no seed source.

        Michael - Thanks so much I will check it out.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Geir Flatabø
        The picture / photo on the link is from Tetragonolobus purpureus...- Asparagus pea if those are synonymöus, - there are lots of suppliers of that one !?
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 26, 2008
          The picture / photo on the link is from
          Tetragonolobus purpureus...- Asparagus pea
          if those are synonymöus, - there are lots of suppliers of that one !?

          Geir Flatabø

          2008/7/26 v.scherrer <vital233@...>

          > Just in case, Lotus edulis, which is a trefoil of sandy, stony and
          > rocky places, is not to be confused with the water lotus, Nelumbo
          > nucifera or -lutea.
          > I found a supplier in Germany:
          >
          > www.biosaatgut.eu/detail.php?n=Lotus_edulis&detail=102&cat_id=bloemen1
          >
          > Just let me know if you like some more help.
          >
          > Cheerios
          >
          > Vital
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have found very little information about this species on the web. I
          > > would like to try growing it in the United States. Does anyone know
          > > of a seed source? If I cannot find a seed source I would at least
          > > like to take a picture of it at Kew when I am there in a month. Does
          > > anyone know where they grow it there (keeping in mind it will be my
          > > first trip to Kew so I do not have a good sense of the place)? Thanks.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Pat Meadows
          ... It sure is. Geir is correct. I ve grown this plant myself and I recognize it too. I can grow it, and have lots of the very pretty dark red flowers, as
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
            On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 05:51:49 +0200, you wrote:

            >The picture / photo on the link is from
            >Tetragonolobus purpureus...- Asparagus pea
            >if those are synonymöus, - there are lots of suppliers of that one !?
            >
            It sure is. Geir is correct. I've grown this plant myself and I recognize
            it too.

            I can grow it, and have lots of the very pretty dark red flowers, as shown,
            but I cannot get it to make the pods; I don't know why.

            Our area has cooler summer weather than much of the USA - cool, fairly wet
            summers. Our average summer high temperatures are around 80F (27 C).

            If anyone knows how to get it to actually fruit, I'd be very interested.
            Thanks!

            Pat
            --
            Northern Pennsylvania

            CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
            http://www.thehungersite.com/
          • sjalge
            It seems as though there may be some taxonomic confusion about the species Lotus edulis. The pictures I am familiar with from image searches show a
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
              It seems as though there may be some taxonomic confusion about the
              species Lotus edulis. The pictures I am familiar with from image
              searches show a Mediterranean species which looks typical for the
              genus Lotus (not confusing it with Nelumbo the "sacred lotus"). The
              Lotus edulis plant in the images has yellow flowers. When I looked up
              the "asparagus pea" I found a plant with red flowers and winged seed
              pots that look more like the genus Psophocarpus. If the information
              on the Brooklyn Botanic Garden page for "asparagus pea" is correct and
              they need a long hot growing season to produce pods it would explain
              the trouble growing it in Pennsylvania. It would also suggest that
              the "asparagus pea" which is being variably listed as Tetragonolobus
              purpureus or Lotus edulis may actually be a variety of the tropical
              plant Psophocarpus tetragonolobus. Information for which can be found
              at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_bean> (in English).

              Sadly, this still leaves me with no seed source for the species I
              seek, the true?, Lotus edulis from southern Europe. Images of which
              can be found at <http://tinyurl.com/5sexm5> or at
              <http://www.maltawildplants.com/FABC/Lotus_edulis.php>

              If anyone knows a seed source for this species please let me know, I
              would be very greatful and I would also like to thank everyone for
              their help thus far.
            • Geir Flatabø
              Get a beehive... Geir Flatabø 2008/7/27 Pat Meadows ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
                Get a beehive...

                Geir Flatabø

                2008/7/27 Pat Meadows <pat@...>

                > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 05:51:49 +0200, you wrote:
                >
                > >The picture / photo on the link is from
                > >Tetragonolobus purpureus...- Asparagus pea
                > >if those are synonymöus, - there are lots of suppliers of that one !?
                > >
                > It sure is. Geir is correct. I've grown this plant myself and I recognize
                > it too.
                >
                > I can grow it, and have lots of the very pretty dark red flowers, as shown,
                > but I cannot get it to make the pods; I don't know why.
                >
                > Our area has cooler summer weather than much of the USA - cool, fairly wet
                > summers. Our average summer high temperatures are around 80F (27 C).
                >
                > If anyone knows how to get it to actually fruit, I'd be very interested.
                > Thanks!
                >
                > Pat
                > --
                > Northern Pennsylvania
                >
                > CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
                > http://www.thehungersite.com/
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Pat Meadows
                ... Sigh. I have the horrors at the thought of dealing with masses of bees. I don t even like to see masses of bees on TV. Some people are just *not* meant to
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
                  On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:44:52 +0200, you wrote:

                  >Get a beehive...
                  >

                  Sigh. I have the horrors at the thought of dealing with masses of bees. I
                  don't even like to see masses of bees on TV.

                  Some people are just *not* meant to be beekeepers, and I'm definitely one
                  of them. I could NOT do that, there's no way.

                  There are lots of bees around, however. We are in a quite isolated, very
                  rural area and everything else that I grow is pollinated very well, even in
                  this time of trouble for bees with Colony Collapse Disorder. I thought I
                  might need to pollinate the cucumbers and zucchini this year, but no. They
                  are pollinated very adequately by the bees. Wild bees, most likely.

                  Pat
                  --
                  Northern Pennsylvania

                  CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
                  http://www.thehungersite.com/
                • Pat Meadows
                  ... It would - I m in northern Pennsylvania, in mountains too. OTOH, I have a gardening friend in Kansas - with a LONG HOT growing season - and he has the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
                    On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:01:35 -0000, you wrote:

                    >It seems as though there may be some taxonomic confusion about the
                    >species Lotus edulis. The pictures I am familiar with from image
                    >searches show a Mediterranean species which looks typical for the
                    >genus Lotus (not confusing it with Nelumbo the "sacred lotus"). The
                    >Lotus edulis plant in the images has yellow flowers. When I looked up
                    >the "asparagus pea" I found a plant with red flowers and winged seed
                    >pots that look more like the genus Psophocarpus. If the information
                    >on the Brooklyn Botanic Garden page for "asparagus pea" is correct and
                    >they need a long hot growing season to produce pods it would explain
                    >the trouble growing it in Pennsylvania.

                    It would - I'm in northern Pennsylvania, in mountains too. OTOH, I have a
                    gardening friend in Kansas - with a LONG HOT growing season - and he has
                    the same problem.

                    I just don't know.

                    Thanks!

                    Pat
                    --
                    Northern Pennsylvania

                    CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
                    http://www.thehungersite.com/
                  • Geir Flatabø
                    Probably then the species is not comercially available, so you will have to contact botanic collections , they might have it in their seed exchange programs,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 27, 2008
                      Probably then the species is not comercially available,
                      so you will have to contact botanic collections , they might have it in
                      their seed exchange programs,
                      or contact the guy who have made the photos - he might ??
                      or just go to the mediterranean to look for it...

                      Geir

                      2008/7/27 sjalge <sjalge@...>

                      > It seems as though there may be some taxonomic confusion about the
                      > species Lotus edulis. The pictures I am familiar with from image
                      > searches show a Mediterranean species which looks typical for the
                      > genus Lotus (not confusing it with Nelumbo the "sacred lotus"). The
                      > Lotus edulis plant in the images has yellow flowers. When I looked up
                      > the "asparagus pea" I found a plant with red flowers and winged seed
                      > pots that look more like the genus Psophocarpus. If the information
                      > on the Brooklyn Botanic Garden page for "asparagus pea" is correct and
                      > they need a long hot growing season to produce pods it would explain
                      > the trouble growing it in Pennsylvania. It would also suggest that
                      > the "asparagus pea" which is being variably listed as Tetragonolobus
                      > purpureus or Lotus edulis may actually be a variety of the tropical
                      > plant Psophocarpus tetragonolobus. Information for which can be found
                      > at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_bean> (in English).
                      >
                      > Sadly, this still leaves me with no seed source for the species I
                      > seek, the true?, Lotus edulis from southern Europe. Images of which
                      > can be found at <http://tinyurl.com/5sexm5> or at
                      > <http://www.maltawildplants.com/FABC/Lotus_edulis.php>
                      >
                      > If anyone knows a seed source for this species please let me know, I
                      > would be very greatful and I would also like to thank everyone for
                      > their help thus far.
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sjalge
                      ... Geir - The last suggestion sounds like the best option to me!
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 28, 2008
                        > Probably then the species is not comercially available,
                        > so you will have to contact botanic collections , they might have it in
                        > their seed exchange programs,
                        > or contact the guy who have made the photos - he might ??
                        > or just go to the mediterranean to look for it...

                        Geir - The last suggestion sounds like the best option to me!
                      • v.scherrer
                        The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates to asparagus pea. But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 29, 2008
                          The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
                          to asparagus pea.

                          But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                          rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                          have - where it may self-seed.
                          If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                          Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.

                          Vital


                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The picture / photo on the link is from
                          > Tetragonolobus purpureus...- Asparagus pea
                          > if those are synonymöus, - there are lots of suppliers of that one !?
                          >
                          > Geir Flatabø
                          >
                          > 2008/7/26 v.scherrer <vital233@...>
                          >
                          > > Just in case, Lotus edulis, which is a trefoil of sandy, stony and
                          > > rocky places, is not to be confused with the water lotus, Nelumbo
                          > > nucifera or -lutea.
                          > > I found a supplier in Germany:
                          > >
                          > > www.biosaatgut.eu/detail.php?n=Lotus_edulis&detail=102&cat_id=bloemen1
                          > >
                          > > Just let me know if you like some more help.
                          > >
                          > > Cheerios
                          > >
                          > > Vital
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I have found very little information about this species on the
                          web. I
                          > > > would like to try growing it in the United States. Does anyone know
                          > > > of a seed source? If I cannot find a seed source I would at least
                          > > > like to take a picture of it at Kew when I am there in a month.
                          Does
                          > > > anyone know where they grow it there (keeping in mind it will be my
                          > > > first trip to Kew so I do not have a good sense of the place)?
                          Thanks.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • sjalge
                          ... Caragana arborescens would be great, and I prefer perennial species if I can grow them. Unfortunately, at this point I move around every couple years and
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 29, 2008
                            > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                            > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                            > have - where it may self-seed.
                            > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                            > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.

                            Caragana arborescens would be great, and I prefer perennial species if
                            I can grow them. Unfortunately, at this point I move around every
                            couple years and so I am more restricted to annual species. I will be
                            sure to add Caragana arborescens to the "if I ever settle down" plant
                            wish list.
                          • Pat Meadows
                            ... Because it is such an attractive plant, and one that sprawls along the ground, it s useful in a container - mixed with other plants - if you want the
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 29, 2008
                              On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:43:40 -0000, you wrote:

                              >The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
                              >to asparagus pea.
                              >
                              >But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                              >rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                              >have - where it may self-seed.

                              Because it is such an attractive plant, and one that sprawls along the
                              ground, it's useful in a container - mixed with other plants - if you want
                              the container to be attractive as well as to produce food. It can droop
                              artistically over the edge of the container.

                              Many people only have a small front yard, or front porch, or front walkway
                              or balcony to garden on. They want their tiny area to be attractive as
                              well as productive.

                              I can understand wanting to grow asparagus peas in these circumstances.

                              I myself would like to grow it simply because I always want to grow any and
                              every edible plant I ever hear of - I am just simply besotted with
                              gardening! :)

                              I am fortunate enough to have a sizeable back yard where I can grow food
                              without worrying about it's 'prettiness' or lack of same, but not everyone
                              is so very lucky.

                              >If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                              >Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.
                              >
                              I'm not familiar with this plant, I'll look it up. Thank you. We do have
                              cold winters.

                              Pat
                              --
                              Northern Pennsylvania

                              CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
                              http://www.thehungersite.com/
                            • Steve Whitcher
                              EURISCO lists 7 Accessions of Lotus edulis (4 from Germany) at http://eurisco.ecpgr.org/search/custom_export_result.php
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 29, 2008
                                EURISCO lists 7 Accessions of Lotus edulis (4 from Germany) at
                                http://eurisco.ecpgr.org/search/custom_export_result.php



                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > It seems as though there may be some taxonomic confusion about the
                                > species Lotus edulis. The pictures I am familiar with from image
                                > searches show a Mediterranean species which looks typical for the
                                > genus Lotus (not confusing it with Nelumbo the "sacred lotus"). The
                                > Lotus edulis plant in the images has yellow flowers. When I looked up
                                > the "asparagus pea" I found a plant with red flowers and winged seed
                                > pots that look more like the genus Psophocarpus. If the information
                                > on the Brooklyn Botanic Garden page for "asparagus pea" is correct and
                                > they need a long hot growing season to produce pods it would explain
                                > the trouble growing it in Pennsylvania. It would also suggest that
                                > the "asparagus pea" which is being variably listed as Tetragonolobus
                                > purpureus or Lotus edulis may actually be a variety of the tropical
                                > plant Psophocarpus tetragonolobus. Information for which can be found
                                > at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_bean> (in English).
                                >
                                > Sadly, this still leaves me with no seed source for the species I
                                > seek, the true?, Lotus edulis from southern Europe. Images of which
                                > can be found at <http://tinyurl.com/5sexm5> or at
                                > <http://www.maltawildplants.com/FABC/Lotus_edulis.php>
                                >
                                > If anyone knows a seed source for this species please let me know, I
                                > would be very greatful and I would also like to thank everyone for
                                > their help thus far.
                                >
                              • Geir Flatabø
                                2008/7/29 v.scherrer ... Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name edulis , might it not be that the whole plant is
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 30, 2008
                                  2008/7/29 v.scherrer <vital233@...>

                                  > The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
                                  > to asparagus pea.
                                  >
                                  > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                                  > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                                  > have - where it may self-seed.


                                  Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
                                  might it not be
                                  that the whole plant is edible ???

                                  Growing Caracana does not exclude other edibles ??

                                  Geir FLatabø


                                  >
                                  > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                                  > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.
                                  >
                                  > Vital
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Renuga chock
                                  Hi. I was talking about Amaranthus retroflexus.  I am sending you a picture of it. Please let me know if this is edible. If so it might be in our lunch menu
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 30, 2008
                                    Hi.
                                    I was talking about Amaranthus retroflexus.  I am sending you a picture of it. Please let me know if this is edible. If so it might be in our lunch menu today Thanks
                                    -Renuga

                                    --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:

                                    From: Geir Flatabø <geirf@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: Lotus edulis
                                    To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                    Received: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 3:02 AM






                                    2008/7/29 v.scherrer <vital233@hotmail. com>

                                    > The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
                                    > to asparagus pea.
                                    >
                                    > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                                    > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                                    > have - where it may self-seed.

                                    Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
                                    might it not be
                                    that the whole plant is edible ???

                                    Growing Caracana does not exclude other edibles ??

                                    Geir FLatabø

                                    >
                                    > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                                    > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.
                                    >
                                    > Vital
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • v.scherrer
                                    In case I conveyed an impression of discouragement, intolerance or a lack of understanding, I m sorry, that was not really what I intended. I was merely trying
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 31, 2008
                                      In case I conveyed an impression of discouragement, intolerance or a
                                      lack of understanding, I'm sorry, that was not really what I intended.
                                      I was merely trying to hint at a possibly better option for a plant of
                                      which the seeds seem, at least momentarily, hard to get.
                                      If there is still a need for more information, I read that people on
                                      the island of Corsica, France, eat the raw pods of Lotus edulis, and
                                      that this plant is known there under the common names "faux caroubier"
                                      and/or "lotier comestible".
                                      Anybody from Corsica or with contacts there, or the like, following
                                      this thread?
                                      Though it does seem to be a plant mostly found in Mediterranean
                                      regions and thus may have a heat requirement similar to the asparagus
                                      pea - unless one may be able to find some seeds of strains which grow
                                      near the limits of its northern range.

                                      Good luck with finding and growing these!

                                      Vital


                                      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > 2008/7/29 v.scherrer <vital233@...>
                                      >
                                      > > The German (common) name on that web page indeed literally translates
                                      > > to asparagus pea.
                                      > >
                                      > > But I wonder why one would want to grow this - due to the small pods -
                                      > > rather laborious annual, unless sandy, stony or rocky soil is all you
                                      > > have - where it may self-seed.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
                                      > might it not be
                                      > that the whole plant is edible ???
                                      >
                                      > Growing Caracana does not exclude other edibles ??
                                      >
                                      > Geir FLatabø
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > If I would get reasonably cold winters, I would prefer to grow the
                                      > > Caragana arborescens - Siberian Pea Tree.
                                      > >
                                      > > Vital
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • v.scherrer
                                      ... I don t think that edulis necessarily means that all parts are edible, but at:
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
                                        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:

                                        > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
                                        > might it not be
                                        > that the whole plant is edible ???

                                        I don't think that "edulis" necessarily means that all parts are
                                        edible, but at:

                                        http://epic.kew.org/searchepic/detailquery.do;jsessionid=73EEC88396D7D40C8AE79005B6CCC1C6?requiredPage=1&scientificName=Lotus+edulis&datasources=ipni&datasources=mc&datasources=libcat&datasources=ebbd&datasources=ecbot&datasources=livcoll&datasources=herbcat&datasources=sid&datasources=sepasal&datasources=efz&datasources=kewweb&categories=names&categories=bibl&categories=colln&categories=taxon&categories=flora&categories=misc&detailDatasource=sepasal

                                        it reads:

                                        "Lotus edulis L.
                                        Uses: FOOD(Leaves, Seeds); ANIMAL FOOD(Aerial Parts); ENVIRONMENTAL
                                        USES(Soil Improvers)"

                                        Another issue with propagation by seed might be, or not, the right
                                        symbiotic soil bacteria. As I made the unfortunate experience that
                                        some nitrogen fixing plants can grow very poorly if the proper soil
                                        bacteria associated with it is not already present in the soil. For
                                        this reason it might be preferable to get potted plants.

                                        Vital
                                      • Gail Lloyd
                                             edulis in a botanical name only means that some part of the plant (or animal) is edible - not necessarily the whole plant (or animal).      For
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
                                               "edulis" in a botanical name only means that some part of the plant (or animal) is edible - not necessarily the whole plant (or animal).
                                               For instance, Pinus edulis has edible pine nuts, you can't eat the needles or the trunk.
                                               There is a clam that has a botanical name that includes "edulis" - you wouldn't eat the clam shell.
                                          Gail
                                          (horticulturist & M.G.)

                                          --- On Sun, 8/3/08, v.scherrer <vital233@...> wrote:

                                          From: v.scherrer <vital233@...>
                                          Subject: [pfaf] Re: Lotus edulis
                                          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Sunday, August 3, 2


                                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups. com, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...> wrote:

                                          > Are you sure it is only the pod that denominates the name "edulis",
                                          > might it not be
                                          > that the whole plant is edible ???

                                          I don't think that "edulis" necessarily means that all parts are
                                          edible, but at:

                                          http://epic. kew.org/searchep ic/detailquery. do;jsessionid= 73EEC88396D7D40C 8AE79005B6CCC1C6 ?requiredPage= 1&scientificName =Lotus+edulis& datasources= ipni&datasources =mc&datasources= libcat&datasourc es=ebbd&datasour ces=ecbot& datasources= livcoll&datasour ces=herbcat& datasources= sid&datasources= sepasal&datasour ces=efz&datasour ces=kewweb& categories= names&categories =bibl&categories =colln&categorie s=taxon&categori es=flora& categories= misc&detailDatas ource=sepasal

                                          it reads:

                                          "Lotus edulis L.
                                          Uses: FOOD(Leaves, Seeds); ANIMAL FOOD(Aerial Parts); ENVIRONMENTAL
                                          USES(Soil Improvers)"

                                          Another issue with propagation by seed might be, or not, the right
                                          symbiotic soil bacteria. As I made the unfortunate experience that
                                          some nitrogen fixing plants can grow very poorly if the proper soil
                                          bacteria associated with it is not already present in the soil. For
                                          this reason it might be preferable to get potted plants.

                                          Vital


















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • v.scherrer
                                          As I have a shortage on herbaceous nitrogen fixers and soil improvers, especially self-seeding ones, let alone ones which yield something reasonably edible,
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
                                            As I have a shortage on herbaceous nitrogen fixers and soil improvers,
                                            especially self-seeding ones, let alone ones which yield something
                                            reasonably edible, I'm always keeping an eye open for any possible
                                            option. So I had a look for informations about Lotus edulis and it's
                                            preferred and/or tolerated living conditions. To get an idea whether
                                            it might be worth to consider this, one might want to take a look at:

                                            http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412

                                            For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:

                                            http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807

                                            For my poor and acid soil, so far - after trials with about a dozen
                                            different at least halfway promissing species - only the sowing of
                                            Lespedeza cuneata was successful in the long run. Unfortunately it
                                            doesn't self-seed on my location, but is amazingly shade tolerant.
                                            Though reportedly a low growing shrub, it grows more like a scraggy
                                            grass - though the leaves are of course different.
                                            Among the others I also tried to cultivate the perennial shrub Cajanus
                                            cajan, the pigeon pea. But either it was one of those missing the
                                            appropriate soil bacteria, or it wasn't a suitable variety, or both.
                                          • sjalge
                                            ... vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina. It makes
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 3, 2008
                                              > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412
                                              >
                                              > For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:
                                              >
                                              > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807

                                              vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if
                                              you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina.
                                              It makes great tea, fixes nitrogen (symbiotically of course) and it
                                              is clonal so it will spread without having to seed. The Fabaceae form
                                              symbioses with rhyzobia which are common in many soils, so I would be
                                              surprised if the lack of their symbiont was the reason for the species
                                              failing. The way to be more confident in that assessment is to dig
                                              them up and see if the roots are nodulating. If they are then they
                                              have most likely found the rhyzobia and are failing due to other
                                              causes. Hope this helps.
                                            • v.scherrer
                                              Thanks a lot! This should help. Although I m pretty well off with nitrogen fixing shrubs, but this plant sounds just so irresistibly desirable - tolerant of
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Aug 5, 2008
                                                Thanks a lot! This should help.
                                                Although I'm pretty well off with nitrogen fixing shrubs, but this
                                                plant sounds just so irresistibly desirable - tolerant of drought, of
                                                acid and poor soil - I've got more than I could wish for of that - and
                                                a size which is not likely to demand any effort - definitely a must
                                                have for my collection. Though it may not fruit due to low chill
                                                winters, but I wouldn't expect it suffer otherwise from lack of cold.

                                                Re rhyzobia, I read once that such plants may nodulate anyway, but
                                                that one can tell whether they are actually fixing nitrogen, if the
                                                nodules are brownish inside, rather than white.
                                                According to some sources of information, even within the family of
                                                the Fabaceae, there are many different species or genera which require
                                                different rhyzobia.


                                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "sjalge" <sjalge@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=7412
                                                > >
                                                > > For a comparison with the asparagus pea see:
                                                > >
                                                > > http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/dataSheet?id=1807
                                                >
                                                > vital - Great links! For acid soil (if it is also sandy/rocky) and if
                                                > you live somewhere cool enough you might consider Comptonia peregrina.
                                                > It makes great tea, fixes nitrogen (symbiotically of course) and it
                                                > is clonal so it will spread without having to seed. The Fabaceae form
                                                > symbioses with rhyzobia which are common in many soils, so I would be
                                                > surprised if the lack of their symbiont was the reason for the species
                                                > failing. The way to be more confident in that assessment is to dig
                                                > them up and see if the roots are nodulating. If they are then they
                                                > have most likely found the rhyzobia and are failing due to other
                                                > causes. Hope this helps.
                                                >
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