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Re: anyone into permaculture?

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  • sustain_ability@123mail.org
    It s there. I will try to post a few sites, later. Where are you located, nerdnooky? George http://transitions.stumbleupon.com On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:47:06
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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      It's there. I will try to post a few sites, later. Where are you
      located, nerdnooky?
      George
      http://transitions.stumbleupon.com

      On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:47:06 +0200, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...>
      said:
      > Because we are so few,
      > there is too little money into it
      > and therefore no marketing,
      > you have to dig and look for it to find it...
      >
      > Welcome
      >
      > Geir Flatabø
      > Norway
      >
      > 2008/6/2 nerdnooky <nerdnooky@...>:
      >
      > > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get some
      > > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
      > > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first time
      > > I've ever heard of it. Why?!

      --
      http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…
    • Diane Lee Long
      Dear Geir, I think that there are many of us into it it, but afraid to talk about it much. Here in the USA they have many laws that prohibit a lot of the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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        Dear Geir,

        I think that there are many of us into it it, but afraid to talk about it much. Here in the USA they have many laws that prohibit a lot of the procedures.

        i will give you just one example. I went to get a permit to put in a cistern. That was the wrong thing to do. They wanted me to dig up the whole septic system and tile field to inspect it, and if they found anything wrong, they would condemn the house and I would have to live some other place until it was corrected by a licensed contractor.

        Then the well would have to be inspected and look for any problems. Then since I was doing improvements on the house, I would have to change out the culvert in the drive way, which needed a permit and a licensed contractor.

        Then if they felt that I was really in need of one, they might permit it, if a licensed contractor came in and did it. When I explained that I was not going to use it for drinking, and just aquaticponic, then I would have to pay for another permit.

        Then they quoted International Law to me and reminded me that the USA is not a third world country. So to put in just a cistern, it was going to cost me well over $6,000.

        There are many out there that do believe and are doing it. They just keep their moth closed for this reason.

        Diane


        Geir Flatabø <geirf@...> wrote:
        Because we are so few,
        there is too little money into it
        and therefore no marketing,
        you have to dig and look for it to find it...

        Welcome

        Geir Flatabø
        Norway

        2008/6/2 nerdnooky <nerdnooky@...>:

        > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get some
        > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
        > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first time
        > I've ever heard of it. Why?!
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Infowolf1@aol.com
        It seems to me that you don t need to do it one hundred per cent by the book you can still get a lot done. On the watering, if you are concerned about purity
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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          It seems to me that you don't need to do it one hundred per cent
          by the book you can still get a lot done.

          On the watering, if you are concerned about purity of water
          not all groundwater is uncontaminated. But a drip system, fed
          by an aboveground tank (keep it out of the sun so the water
          isn't hot when it gets to the plants) in which you put water that
          is exactly what you want incl. a dab of "soil soup" if you want,
          and pick stuff without chlorine or fluoride, incl. the "Just Water"
          and other filtered water stores, that sell water that has been
          run through a three stage filter which takes out fluoride as well
          as everything else, could accomplish the same thing as your
          cistern without the licensing problems.


          In a message dated 6/2/2008 4:51:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
          firstwhitelight@... writes:




          Dear Geir,

          I think that there are many of us into it it, but afraid to talk about it
          much. Here in the USA they have many laws that prohibit a lot of the procedures.

          i will give you just one example. I went to get a permit to put in a
          cistern. That was the wrong thing to do. They wanted me to dig up the whole septic
          system and tile field to inspect it, and if they found anything wrong, they
          would condemn the house and I would have to live some other place until it was
          corrected by a licensed contractor.

          Then the well would have to be inspected and look for any problems. Then
          since I was doing improvements on the house, I would have to change out the
          culvert in the drive way, which needed a permit and a licensed contractor.

          Then if they felt that I was really in need of one, they might permit it, if
          a licensed contractor came in and did it. When I explained that I was not
          going to use it for drinking, and just aquaticponic, then I would have to pay
          for another permit.

          Then they quoted International Law to me and reminded me that the USA is not
          a third world country. So to put in just a cistern, it was going to cost me
          well over $6,000.

          There are many out there that do believe and are doing it. They just keep
          their moth closed for this reason.

          Diane


          Geir Flatabø <_geirf@..._ (mailto:geirf@...) > wrote:
          Because we are so few,
          there is too little money into it
          and therefore no marketing,
          you have to dig and look for it to find it...

          Welcome

          Geir Flatabø
          Norway

          2008/6/2 nerdnooky <_nerdnooky@..._ (mailto:nerdnooky@...) >:

          > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get some
          > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
          > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first time
          > I've ever heard of it. Why?!
          >
          >
          > ------------ ---- ---- -
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
          Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
          (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • vic_doyle
          I was pondering this last night! The ideal sitch is a dry twin wheelie bin drop system, which can be built and hidden near trees etc. Keep it hidden, tell them
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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            I was pondering this last night!
            The ideal sitch is a dry twin wheelie bin drop system, which can be
            built and hidden near trees etc. Keep it hidden, tell them that you
            use a chemical toilet. You obviously need to harvest rainwater from
            rooftops etc, keep at it, don't ask permission to live a natural
            life!!!

            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
            >
            > It seems to me that you don't need to do it one hundred per cent
            > by the book you can still get a lot done.
            >
            > On the watering, if you are concerned about purity of water
            > not all groundwater is uncontaminated. But a drip system, fed
            > by an aboveground tank (keep it out of the sun so the water
            > isn't hot when it gets to the plants) in which you put water that
            > is exactly what you want incl. a dab of "soil soup" if you want,
            > and pick stuff without chlorine or fluoride, incl. the "Just Water"
            > and other filtered water stores, that sell water that has been
            > run through a three stage filter which takes out fluoride as well
            > as everything else, could accomplish the same thing as your
            > cistern without the licensing problems.
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 6/2/2008 4:51:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            > firstwhitelight@... writes:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Geir,
            >
            > I think that there are many of us into it it, but afraid to talk
            about it
            > much. Here in the USA they have many laws that prohibit a lot of
            the procedures.
            >
            > i will give you just one example. I went to get a permit to put in
            a
            > cistern. That was the wrong thing to do. They wanted me to dig up
            the whole septic
            > system and tile field to inspect it, and if they found anything
            wrong, they
            > would condemn the house and I would have to live some other place
            until it was
            > corrected by a licensed contractor.
            >
            > Then the well would have to be inspected and look for any
            problems. Then
            > since I was doing improvements on the house, I would have to
            change out the
            > culvert in the drive way, which needed a permit and a licensed
            contractor.
            >
            > Then if they felt that I was really in need of one, they might
            permit it, if
            > a licensed contractor came in and did it. When I explained that I
            was not
            > going to use it for drinking, and just aquaticponic, then I would
            have to pay
            > for another permit.
            >
            > Then they quoted International Law to me and reminded me that the
            USA is not
            > a third world country. So to put in just a cistern, it was going
            to cost me
            > well over $6,000.
            >
            > There are many out there that do believe and are doing it. They
            just keep
            > their moth closed for this reason.
            >
            > Diane
            >
            >
            > Geir Flatabø <_geirf@..._ (mailto:geirf@...) > wrote:
            > Because we are so few,
            > there is too little money into it
            > and therefore no marketing,
            > you have to dig and look for it to find it...
            >
            > Welcome
            >
            > Geir Flatabø
            > Norway
            >
            > 2008/6/2 nerdnooky <_nerdnooky@..._ (mailto:nerdnooky@...) >:
            >
            > > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get
            some
            > > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
            > > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first
            time
            > > I've ever heard of it. Why?!
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------ ---- ---- -
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
            with
            > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
            > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?
            NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Infowolf1@aol.com
            Or instead of something that is permanent and situated, just put big plastic containers under the downspouts, and call it liquid compost add some compost to it
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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              Or instead of something that is permanent and situated, just
              put big plastic containers under the downspouts, and call it
              liquid compost add some compost to it to make it look
              believable, and semi true. Claim you mix your own plant food
              ready to pour for watering. Just don't mention where the
              water comes from.


              In a message dated 6/2/2008 9:28:57 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              vic_doyle@... writes:




              I was pondering this last night!
              The ideal sitch is a dry twin wheelie bin drop system, which can be
              built and hidden near trees etc. Keep it hidden, tell them that you
              use a chemical toilet. You obviously need to harvest rainwater from
              rooftops etc, keep at it, don't ask permission to live a natural
              life!!!

              --- In _pfaf@..._ (mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com) , Infowolf1@..,
              In
              >
              > It seems to me that you don't need to do it one hundred per cent
              > by the book you can still get a lot done.
              >
              > On the watering, if you are concerned about purity of water
              > not all groundwater is uncontaminated. But a drip system, fed
              > by an aboveground tank (keep it out of the sun so the water
              > isn't hot when it gets to the plants) in which you put water that
              > is exactly what you want incl. a dab of "soil soup" if you want,
              > and pick stuff without chlorine or fluoride, incl. the "Just Water"
              > and other filtered water stores, that sell water that has been
              > run through a three stage filter which takes out fluoride as well
              > as everything else, could accomplish the same thing as your
              > cistern without the licensing problems.
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 6/2/2008 4:51:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              > firstwhitelight@ firstw
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Geir,
              >
              > I think that there are many of us into it it, but afraid to talk
              about it
              > much. Here in the USA they have many laws that prohibit a lot of
              the procedures.
              >
              > i will give you just one example. I went to get a permit to put in
              a
              > cistern. That was the wrong thing to do. They wanted me to dig up
              the whole septic
              > system and tile field to inspect it, and if they found anything
              wrong, they
              > would condemn the house and I would have to live some other place
              until it was
              > corrected by a licensed contractor.
              >
              > Then the well would have to be inspected and look for any
              problems. Then
              > since I was doing improvements on the house, I would have to
              change out the
              > culvert in the drive way, which needed a permit and a licensed
              contractor.
              >
              > Then if they felt that I was really in need of one, they might
              permit it, if
              > a licensed contractor came in and did it. When I explained that I
              was not
              > going to use it for drinking, and just aquaticponic, then I would
              have to pay
              > for another permit.
              >
              > Then they quoted International Law to me and reminded me that the
              USA is not
              > a third world country. So to put in just a cistern, it was going
              to cost me
              > well over $6,000.
              >
              > There are many out there that do believe and are doing it. They
              just keep
              > their moth closed for this reason.
              >
              > Diane
              >
              >
              > Geir Flatabø <_geirf@..._ (mailto:geirf@_geir> wrote:
              > Because we are so few,
              > there is too little money into it
              > and therefore no marketing,
              > you have to dig and look for it to find it...
              >
              > Welcome
              >
              > Geir Flatabø
              > Norway
              >
              > 2008/6/2 nerdnooky <_nerdnooky@_nerdnooky@<WBR>..._ (m_nerdnook>:
              >
              > > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get
              some
              > > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
              > > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first
              time
              > > I've ever heard of it. Why?!
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------ ---- ---- -
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ************ ************<WBR>**Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. W
              with
              > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
              > (_http://food.http://food.<Whttp://fohttp://&?_
              (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?)
              NCID=aolfod00030000NCID=ao
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >







              **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
              Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
              (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Hilary Robinson
              Of course, Permaculture (and gardening) may also be of interest to those not practising Christianity - or any other religion. Regards, Hilary (Cheshire, UK)
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 2, 2008
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                Of course, Permaculture (and gardening) may also be of interest to those not practising Christianity - or any other religion.
                Regards, Hilary (Cheshire, UK)



                > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                > From: sustain_ability@...
                > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:27:15 -0400
                > Subject: [pfaf] Re: anyone into permaculture?
                >
                >
                > It's there. I will try to post a few sites, later. Where are you
                > located, nerdnooky?
                > George
                > http://transitions.stumbleupon.com
                >
                > On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:47:06 +0200, "Geir Flatabø" <geirf@...>
                > said:
                > > Because we are so few,
                > > there is too little money into it
                > > and therefore no marketing,
                > > you have to dig and look for it to find it...
                > >
                > > Welcome
                > >
                > > Geir Flatabø
                > > Norway
                > >
                > > 2008/6/2 nerdnooky <nerdnooky@...>:
                > >
                > > > Having just found out about permaculture, I would love to get some
                > > > advice on becoming more involved with this exciting grass roots
                > > > movement. After gardening for about 45 years, this is the first time
                > > > I've ever heard of it. Why?!
                >
                > --
                > http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different�
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • nerdnooky
                Hi, I m in the Northeast of USA. what I didn t know, was that this IS a permaculture site! Duh.
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 5, 2008
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                  Hi, I'm in the Northeast of USA. what I didn't know, was that this IS
                  a permaculture site! Duh.
                • nerdnooky
                  Yes, I read Gaia s Garden.... from cover to cover in two days, then went back and re-read slowly, taking detailed notes. Then picked up Robert Hart s book,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 5, 2008
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                    Yes, I read Gaia's Garden.... from cover to cover in two days, then
                    went back and re-read slowly, taking detailed notes. Then picked up
                    Robert Hart's book, Forest Gardening, then Edible Forest Gardens Vol.
                    1, and am now waiting on Earth Users Guide To Permaculture to do the
                    same thing! Reading these books (wherever I go) has started some
                    extremely interesting conversations, all positive! Most gardening
                    folks have never heard of it, too. WHY? It makes perfect sense:
                    like I described to one person it's akin falling in love at first
                    sight, it's that powerful.

                    You know what it needs to jumpstart a really big movement toward it?
                    It's own reality TV show.... LOL, but only half kidding. It really
                    does need more media attention--seems that's the only way people
                    become informed in this country. Has Organic Gardening had any
                    recent articles on this? I don't get it any longer now that its
                    become so commercialized and boringly redundant. Mother Earth News?
                    Any other gardening magazines or e-zines?

                    Does anyone know of any permaculture sites around New England that
                    one might visit? I can't really get away for two weeks+ to take the
                    courses, but would love to see it in action beforehand. Also, any
                    interesting websites to visit would be appreciated.
                  • Sean
                    Check out http://gardengirltv.com/ .... Volume two of Edible Forest Gardens would come pretty high on the list of recommended reading/reference. Of course,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 6, 2008
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                      Check out http://gardengirltv.com/ ....

                      Volume two of Edible Forest Gardens would come pretty high on the list
                      of recommended reading/reference. Of course, the Designer's Manual is
                      important, too.

                      There are several sites around the Northeast, many just emerging. The
                      last few years has seen an explosion in Permaculture interest.
                      Specific sites are listed on the following wiki:

                      http://northeasternpermaculture.wikispaces.com

                      If you can't get away for the two week intensive PDC, there are
                      several alternatives. Weekend series have become increasingly popular
                      and there is a controversial 9-day format (possibly too intense to
                      cover all material and still have an effective design project
                      exercise) being offered on Martha's Vinyard and in SW NH (offered by
                      http://www.permie.us, a TX group).


                      -Sean.

                      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "nerdnooky" <nerdnooky@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes, I read Gaia's Garden.... from cover to cover in two days, then
                      > went back and re-read slowly, taking detailed notes. Then picked up
                      > Robert Hart's book, Forest Gardening, then Edible Forest Gardens Vol.
                      > 1, and am now waiting on Earth Users Guide To Permaculture to do the
                      > same thing! Reading these books (wherever I go) has started some
                      > extremely interesting conversations, all positive! Most gardening
                      > folks have never heard of it, too. WHY? It makes perfect sense:
                      > like I described to one person it's akin falling in love at first
                      > sight, it's that powerful.
                      >
                      > You know what it needs to jumpstart a really big movement toward it?
                      > It's own reality TV show.... LOL, but only half kidding. It really
                      > does need more media attention--seems that's the only way people
                      > become informed in this country. Has Organic Gardening had any
                      > recent articles on this? I don't get it any longer now that its
                      > become so commercialized and boringly redundant. Mother Earth News?
                      > Any other gardening magazines or e-zines?
                      >
                      > Does anyone know of any permaculture sites around New England that
                      > one might visit? I can't really get away for two weeks+ to take the
                      > courses, but would love to see it in action beforehand. Also, any
                      > interesting websites to visit would be appreciated.
                      >
                    • Martin Naylor
                      I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political party in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check the links below martin
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 6, 2008
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                        I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political party in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check the links below
                        martin


                        http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/20080422/863f4a17/attachment.pdf

                        http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/political_parties_reg_handbook_2005_app05.pdf

                        http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/mollison.html




                        ---------------------------------




                        ---------------------------------
                        Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stella
                        interesting thread the Anyone into permaculture .. I saw Ken Fern in a very old video the other night (Robert Harts Forest Garden) and went looking for
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 7, 2008
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                          interesting thread the "Anyone into permaculture" ..

                          I saw Ken Fern in a very old video the other night (Robert Harts'
                          Forest Garden) and went looking for up-to-date info on him and was
                          delighted to see this group ... (anyone know what he's up to nowadays?)

                          Ken is a legend with british permaculture designers! ... so it´s
                          interesting that question should come up on a Plants for a Future list
                          :)

                          yesterday I started his profile on the "Who's Who in Permaculture" wiki
                          that we started up some time ago (still very much under construction),
                          in order to more easily get to know who permaculture designers are and
                          their work.

                          and I would love some help: anyone here know his email, his recent
                          news, and could help compiling this profile? I would really apreciate
                          it!

                          http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/Ken


                          Stella



                          El 06/06/2008, a las 23:54, Martin Naylor escribió:

                          > I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political party
                          > in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check the
                          > links below
                          > martin
                          >
                          > http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/
                          > 20080422/863f4a17/attachment.pdf
                          >
                          > http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/
                          > political_parties_reg_handbook_2005_app05.pdf
                          >
                          > http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/mollison.html
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Alastair McGowan
                          Great to see this promotion of permaculture. Just a wee comment. Isn’t one of the principles of permaculture that we should all be the Who’s Who, there are
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 14, 2008
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                            Great to see this promotion of permaculture.



                            Just a wee comment. Isn’t one of the principles of permaculture that we
                            should all be the Who’s Who, there are no experts except those who are truly
                            living permaculturally in a similar ecology, embedded in a human-to-wild
                            ecology closer to the hunter-gatherer than the hierarchical configuration of
                            current concepts of civilisation – something I aspire to and like many
                            permaculturists I would resist the idea of there being experts who can show
                            us permaculture objectively from the outside.



                            By developing a Who’s Who could we be continuing to propagate the concepts
                            of expertise and authority which are anathema to true sustainability. The
                            true permaculturist is unliekly to find a solution from an expert but more
                            likely to gain the appropriate information from an obscure permaculturist on
                            the other side of the earth (e.g. via PFAF). The idea that someone can be an
                            objective expert runs counter to Bill Mollisons fundamentally
                            non-hierarchical approach:



                            I believe that the days of centralised power are numbered, and that a
                            re-tribalisation of society is inevitable, if sometimes painful, process.
                            The applied theories of politics, economics and industry have made a sick
                            society; it is time for new approaches. We live in the post-industrial
                            world, and have an immense amount of sophisticated information and
                            technology which enables us to exchange information while living in a
                            village situation.

                            -Bill Mollison, Introduction to Permaculture Expanded on this theme
                            <http://www.radicalchangela.org/permaculture.html> here



                            But don’t take this as a negative criticism, it is rhetorical for
                            discussion.



                            Best



                            Alastair



                            _____

                            From: pfaf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stella
                            Sent: 07 June 2008 09:01
                            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [pfaf] Who's Who in permaculture



                            interesting thread the "Anyone into permaculture" ..

                            I saw Ken Fern in a very old video the other night (Robert Harts'
                            Forest Garden) and went looking for up-to-date info on him and was
                            delighted to see this group ... (anyone know what he's up to nowadays?)

                            Ken is a legend with british permaculture designers! ... so it´s
                            interesting that question should come up on a Plants for a Future list
                            :)

                            yesterday I started his profile on the "Who's Who in Permaculture" wiki
                            that we started up some time ago (still very much under construction),
                            in order to more easily get to know who permaculture designers are and
                            their work.

                            and I would love some help: anyone here know his email, his recent
                            news, and could help compiling this profile? I would really apreciate
                            it!

                            http://permaculture <http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/Ken>
                            institute.pbwiki.com/Ken

                            Stella

                            El 06/06/2008, a las 23:54, Martin Naylor escribió:

                            > I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political party
                            > in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check the
                            > links below
                            > martin
                            >
                            > http://jasper.
                            <http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/>
                            cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/
                            > 20080422/863f4a17/attachment.pdf
                            >
                            > http://www.aec. <http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/>
                            gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/
                            > political_parties_reg_handbook_2005_app05.pdf
                            >
                            > http://www.scottlon <http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/mollison.html>
                            don.com/interviews/mollison.html
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



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                            06:33




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Brian
                            ... nowadays?) ... list ... wiki ... construction), ... and ... apreciate ... party ... the ... oceania/attachments/ ... Ken Fern vid 1 + 2 can be seen over
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 14, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Stella <stella@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > interesting thread the "Anyone into permaculture" ..
                              >
                              > I saw Ken Fern in a very old video the other night (Robert Harts'
                              > Forest Garden) and went looking for up-to-date info on him and was
                              > delighted to see this group ... (anyone know what he's up to
                              nowadays?)
                              >
                              > Ken is a legend with british permaculture designers! ... so it´s
                              > interesting that question should come up on a Plants for a Future
                              list
                              > :)
                              >
                              > yesterday I started his profile on the "Who's Who in Permaculture"
                              wiki
                              > that we started up some time ago (still very much under
                              construction),
                              > in order to more easily get to know who permaculture designers are
                              and
                              > their work.
                              >
                              > and I would love some help: anyone here know his email, his recent
                              > news, and could help compiling this profile? I would really
                              apreciate
                              > it!
                              >
                              > http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/Ken
                              >
                              >
                              > Stella
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > El 06/06/2008, a las 23:54, Martin Naylor escribió:
                              >
                              > > I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political
                              party
                              > > in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check
                              the
                              > > links below
                              > > martin
                              > >
                              > > http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-
                              oceania/attachments/
                              > > 20080422/863f4a17/attachment.pdf
                              > >
                              > > http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/
                              > > political_parties_reg_handbook_2005_app05.pdf
                              > >
                              > > http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/mollison.html
                              > >
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ---------------------------------
                              > > Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              Ken Fern vid 1 + 2 can be seen over youtube.com here is link if not
                              work do do a search

                              http://uk.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ken+Fern&search_type=&aq=f

                              Brian
                            • Stella
                              thanks for the link Brian, and thanks for your comments below Alastair ... yes, that s exactly the idea: we should all be on the who s who, and we re here
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 17, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                thanks for the link Brian, and thanks for your comments below Alastair
                                :)

                                yes, that's exactly the idea: we should all be on the who's who, and
                                we're here workin on it :)

                                a who's who is about getting people to know each other, and also
                                identifying where to find the people passionate about the things you
                                are - so you can make friends with them.

                                interesting how this authority thing often comes up. I agree that a
                                lot of damage is done by people believing 'experts' should tell them
                                what to do or believe ... or they do nothing and believe anything.

                                But there is also a healthy side to respecting the knowledge &
                                experience of our elders, for egsample (so we don't go re-inventing
                                wheels for eg.) - and interestingly, most sustainable tribal societies
                                (that I know of) put a lot of emphasis on that, on honoring the elders,
                                and the ancestors.

                                There is no contradiction between these two things, except in our own
                                western heads, so badly hurt by mis-use of authority. It would be a
                                great thing to put an end to that confusion, so we can get on with real
                                progress.

                                I also agree that centralization is not where we should be heading ..
                                yet decentralization is very non-effective and it´s why the
                                multinationals and govts. are winning the day so far: they are a lot
                                better organized than the vast majority of people who would like
                                another kind of society.

                                The chaordic model breaks through both sets of disadvantages, and has
                                the advantages of both: a lot more effective and with tons of freedom
                                (eg. internet is a chaordic organization, ecosystems in nature are, as
                                well). There's more about this in
                                http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/

                                So we're just experimenting with building more chaordicism into the
                                basic chaordic structure Bill Mollison set up: with some clear
                                protocols (eg. the vision, ethics, directives, principles of
                                permaculture), but loads of freedom of iniciative ... which needs basic
                                and good quality information to be fully operational (like who's out
                                there, doing what ...)

                                Anyone is very welcome to put their profile up there, or those of
                                people they think should be on there if they are doing permaculture -
                                infact we need lots of help with this, let me know.

                                kind regards

                                Stella


                                El 14/06/2008, a las 10:40, Alastair McGowan escribió:

                                > Great to see this promotion of permaculture.
                                >
                                > Just a wee comment. Isn’t one of the principles of permaculture that
                                > we
                                > should all be the Who’s Who, there are no experts except those who
                                > are truly
                                > living permaculturally in a similar ecology, embedded in a
                                > human-to-wild
                                > ecology closer to the hunter-gatherer than the hierarchical
                                > configuration of
                                > current concepts of civilisation – something I aspire to and like many
                                > permaculturists I would resist the idea of there being experts who
                                > can show
                                > us permaculture objectively from the outside.
                                >
                                > By developing a Who’s Who could we be continuing to propagate the
                                > concepts
                                > of expertise and authority which are anathema to true sustainability.
                                > The
                                > true permaculturist is unliekly to find a solution from an expert but
                                > more
                                > likely to gain the appropriate information from an obscure
                                > permaculturist on
                                > the other side of the earth (e.g. via PFAF). The idea that someone
                                > can be an
                                > objective expert runs counter to Bill Mollisons fundamentally
                                > non-hierarchical approach:
                                >
                                > I believe that the days of centralised power are numbered, and that a
                                > re-tribalisation of society is inevitable, if sometimes painful,
                                > process.
                                > The applied theories of politics, economics and industry have made a
                                > sick
                                > society; it is time for new approaches. We live in the post-industrial
                                > world, and have an immense amount of sophisticated information and
                                > technology which enables us to exchange information while living in a
                                > village situation.
                                >
                                > -Bill Mollison, Introduction to Permaculture Expanded on this theme
                                > <http://www.radicalchangela.org/permaculture.html> here
                                >
                                > But don’t take this as a negative criticism, it is rhetorical for
                                > discussion.
                                >
                                > Best
                                >
                                > Alastair
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > From: pfaf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                > Stella
                                > Sent: 07 June 2008 09:01
                                > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [pfaf] Who's Who in permaculture
                                >
                                > interesting thread the "Anyone into permaculture" ..
                                >
                                > I saw Ken Fern in a very old video the other night (Robert Harts'
                                > Forest Garden) and went looking for up-to-date info on him and was
                                > delighted to see this group ... (anyone know what he's up to
                                > nowadays?)
                                >
                                > Ken is a legend with british permaculture designers! ... so it´s
                                > interesting that question should come up on a Plants for a Future list
                                > :)
                                >
                                > yesterday I started his profile on the "Who's Who in Permaculture"
                                > wiki
                                > that we started up some time ago (still very much under construction),
                                > in order to more easily get to know who permaculture designers are and
                                > their work.
                                >
                                > and I would love some help: anyone here know his email, his recent
                                > news, and could help compiling this profile? I would really apreciate
                                > it!
                                >
                                > http://permaculture <http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/Ken>
                                > institute.pbwiki.com/Ken
                                >
                                > Stella
                                >
                                > El 06/06/2008, a las 23:54, Martin Naylor escribió:
                                >
                                > > I f you like you can also start a Permaculture Peoples Political
                                > party
                                > > in your country one is all ready starting in Australia, check the
                                > > links below
                                > > martin
                                > >
                                > > http://jasper.
                                >
                                > <http://jasper.cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/
                                > >
                                > cmsarchitects.com/pipermail/pil-pc-oceania/attachments/
                                > > 20080422/863f4a17/attachment.pdf
                                > >
                                > > http://www.aec. <http://www.aec.gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/>
                                > gov.au/pdf/party_reg/handbook/
                                > > political_parties_reg_handbook_2005_app05.pdf
                                > >
                                > > http://www.scottlon
                                > <http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/mollison.html>
                                > don.com/interviews/mollison.html
                                > >
                                > > ---------------------------------
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ---------------------------------
                                > > Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG.
                                > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1501 - Release Date:
                                > 13/06/2008
                                > 06:33
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
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