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Re: [pfaf] Biodynamics from a scientific angle

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  • Rick van Rein
    Hello Vic and others, I am responding to your message in the hope that you are being as ernest as I hope you are about showing if/how biodynamics works. I
    Message 1 of 12 , May 7, 2008
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      Hello Vic and others,

      I am responding to your message in the hope that you are being as ernest
      as I hope you are about showing if/how biodynamics works. I think many
      of us are eager to learn some hard evidence on this interesting topic!

      > I am doing some serious research into biodynamics, particularly the
      > effect of the moons phases on plant and tree growth.

      That's very interesting, especially if it is scientifically approached,
      that is: with verifying groups planten at random times but furthermore
      under the same (documented) circumstances, with all the conditions of the
      tests made explicit, and with an explicit hypothesis that you are trying
      to (dis)prove based on sound statistical assumptions. Failure is to
      (dis)prove a hypthesis would also be a result, and interesting to know of.
      The whole idea of a scientific approach is that such research could be
      repeated elsewhere under the same conditions, to verify if the same
      conclusion can be reached.

      What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to be a scientist to do
      scientific research, although talking to one about your approach could
      be useful. I'm only a PhD in computer science, making me a less suitable
      methodical source to talk to. I'm sure there are enough scientists in
      botanical or farming research who would be quite willing to help you
      come up with verifiable scientific evidence.

      > I've made some
      > great breakthroughs in this and I'd like to hear others' experiences.

      Which of course are not necessarily of a scientific nature, and must be
      treated accordingly unless evidence of the contrary is provided along
      with the observations/experiences. The biodynamic breakthrough (as far
      as I am concerned) that lots of people are waiting for is objective,
      comparative proofs or disprovals of the statements made by biodynamics.

      Totally independently, it would be interesting to know if the moon works
      on water, nutrients carried in water, if it works on the seed's willingness
      to sprout, if a cow's horn can be substituted with X, and any such effects
      that explain HOW things work -- but that will only secondary to gardeners
      or farmers, who just want to see IF it works, based on a scientific
      approach.

      > For those not sure what biodynamics is, email me and I will get some
      > information out to you.

      If you have a website on your work, please send a URL to the mailing list,
      even if it's work in progress. It'll be great to see what is going on,
      and where you are heading with your research.

      Thank you for stirring up an interesting line of discussion. I would like
      to get some more information on biodynamics anyway, it's a tickling topic
      to me.


      Kind regards,

      Dr.ir. Rick van Rein
      GroenGemak
      The Netherlands

      http://groengemak.nl/en/
    • vic_doyle
      Thank you very much for your response, I will contact you and send you a copy of my work at the same time as others. Together you will form a feedback network
      Message 2 of 12 , May 8, 2008
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        Thank you very much for your response, I will contact you and send
        you a copy of my work at the same time as others. Together you will
        form a feedback network for me, and that would be a good time to
        create the website. My work has reached a point where I can prove
        that the lunar cycle leaves a mark on plant life, a structural mark
        which provides a stronger "physical direction" a "backbone" for
        growth to develop well.

        Vic




        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Rick van Rein <rick@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Vic and others,
        >
        > I am responding to your message in the hope that you are being as
        ernest
        > as I hope you are about showing if/how biodynamics works. I think
        many
        > of us are eager to learn some hard evidence on this interesting
        topic!
        >
        > > I am doing some serious research into biodynamics, particularly
        the
        > > effect of the moons phases on plant and tree growth.
        >
        > That's very interesting, especially if it is scientifically
        approached,
        > that is: with verifying groups planten at random times but
        furthermore
        > under the same (documented) circumstances, with all the conditions
        of the
        > tests made explicit, and with an explicit hypothesis that you are
        trying
        > to (dis)prove based on sound statistical assumptions. Failure is to
        > (dis)prove a hypthesis would also be a result, and interesting to
        know of.
        > The whole idea of a scientific approach is that such research could
        be
        > repeated elsewhere under the same conditions, to verify if the same
        > conclusion can be reached.
        >
        > What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to be a scientist to
        do
        > scientific research, although talking to one about your approach
        could
        > be useful. I'm only a PhD in computer science, making me a less
        suitable
        > methodical source to talk to. I'm sure there are enough scientists
        in
        > botanical or farming research who would be quite willing to help you
        > come up with verifiable scientific evidence.
        >
        > > I've made some
        > > great breakthroughs in this and I'd like to hear others'
        experiences.
        >
        > Which of course are not necessarily of a scientific nature, and
        must be
        > treated accordingly unless evidence of the contrary is provided
        along
        > with the observations/experiences. The biodynamic breakthrough (as
        far
        > as I am concerned) that lots of people are waiting for is objective,
        > comparative proofs or disprovals of the statements made by
        biodynamics.
        >
        > Totally independently, it would be interesting to know if the moon
        works
        > on water, nutrients carried in water, if it works on the seed's
        willingness
        > to sprout, if a cow's horn can be substituted with X, and any such
        effects
        > that explain HOW things work -- but that will only secondary to
        gardeners
        > or farmers, who just want to see IF it works, based on a scientific
        > approach.
        >
        > > For those not sure what biodynamics is, email me and I will get
        some
        > > information out to you.
        >
        > If you have a website on your work, please send a URL to the
        mailing list,
        > even if it's work in progress. It'll be great to see what is going
        on,
        > and where you are heading with your research.
        >
        > Thank you for stirring up an interesting line of discussion. I
        would like
        > to get some more information on biodynamics anyway, it's a tickling
        topic
        > to me.
        >
        >
        > Kind regards,
        >
        > Dr.ir. Rick van Rein
        > GroenGemak
        > The Netherlands
        >
        > http://groengemak.nl/en/
        >
      • ingrid glass
        Hi Vic, I remember one of the series about Kew Gardens on BBC had a bit about a horticultural student there who for her project planted one half of her
        Message 3 of 12 , May 8, 2008
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          Hi Vic,

          I remember one of the series about Kew Gardens on BBC had a bit about a horticultural student there who for her project planted one half of her vegetable plot according to lunar cycle, and the other half not, tho' treated exactly the same otherwise. The first results were disappointing but it was discovered that the irrigation system on the lunar side hadn't been working properly. After that, there was a really significant difference in the output of the two sides, with the lunar side much more abundant for every crop. Her tutor had been very sceptical at the outset of the experiment, and was surprised at the result. I remember she was out at all hours planting according to the moon. I'm afraid that's all I can remember though! I don't recall them explaining why the lunar side was so much more successful, whether it was to do with water or nutrient uptake related to the pull of the moon. You could try contacting the School of Horticulture at Kew for further information?

          Ingrid




          ________________________________

          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          From: vic_doyle@...
          Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:49:05 +0000
          Subject: [pfaf] Re: Biodynamics from a scientific angle







          Thank you very much for your response, I will contact you and send
          you a copy of my work at the same time as others. Together you will
          form a feedback network for me, and that would be a good time to
          create the website. My work has reached a point where I can prove
          that the lunar cycle leaves a mark on plant life, a structural mark
          which provides a stronger "physical direction" a "backbone" for
          growth to develop well.

          Vic


          _________________________________________________________________
          Great deals on almost anything at eBay.co.uk. Search, bid, find and win on eBay today!
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        • Steve Sainsbury
          Hi, I m assuming you re all capable of googling biodynamic and coming up with Steiner and the other common threads, but maybe you won t find Jeff Poppen.
          Message 4 of 12 , May 8, 2008
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            Hi,
            I'm assuming you're all capable of googling "biodynamic" and coming up with
            Steiner and the other common threads, but maybe you won't find Jeff Poppen.
            Jeff is known as the Barefoot Farmer, and he's from Tennessee - you can
            catch a gimpse here - http://www.barefootfarmer.com/
            Obviously a site can't replace meeting someone in person, but he's a great
            guy, and extremely knowlegeable. He's the person who introduced me to
            compost teas (a book's worth of material all on it's own).

            Hope you get something good from it.

            Peace,

            Steve.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Infowolf1@aol.com
            please send me a copy too! In a message dated 5/8/2008 4:49:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, vic_doyle@yahoo.co.uk writes: Thank you very much for your response,
            Message 5 of 12 , May 8, 2008
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              please send me a copy too!


              In a message dated 5/8/2008 4:49:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              vic_doyle@... writes:




              Thank you very much for your response, I will contact you and send
              you a copy of my work at the same time as others. Together you will
              form a feedback network for me, and that would be a good time to
              create the website. My work has reached a point where I can prove
              that the lunar cycle leaves a mark on plant life, a structural mark
              which provides a stronger "physical direction" a "backbone" for
              growth to develop well.

              Vic

              --- In _pfaf@..._ (mailto:pfaf@yahoogroups.com) , Rick van Rein
              <rick@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Vic and others,
              >
              > I am responding to your message in the hope that you are being as
              ernest
              > as I hope you are about showing if/how biodynamics works. I think
              many
              > of us are eager to learn some hard evidence on this interesting
              topic!
              >
              > > I am doing some serious research into biodynamics, particularly
              the
              > > effect of the moons phases on plant and tree growth.
              >
              > That's very interesting, especially if it is scientifically
              approached,
              > that is: with verifying groups planten at random times but
              furthermore
              > under the same (documented) circumstances, with all the conditions
              of the
              > tests made explicit, and with an explicit hypothesis that you are
              trying
              > to (dis)prove based on sound statistical assumptions. Failure is to
              > (dis)prove a hypthesis would also be a result, and interesting to
              know of.
              > The whole idea of a scientific approach is that such research could
              be
              > repeated elsewhere under the same conditions, to verify if the same
              > conclusion can be reached.
              >
              > What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to be a scientist to
              do
              > scientific research, although talking to one about your approach
              could
              > be useful. I'm only a PhD in computer science, making me a less
              suitable
              > methodical source to talk to. I'm sure there are enough scientists
              in
              > botanical or farming research who would be quite willing to help you
              > come up with verifiable scientific evidence.
              >
              > > I've made some
              > > great breakthroughs in this and I'd like to hear others'
              experiences.
              >
              > Which of course are not necessarily of a scientific nature, and
              must be
              > treated accordingly unless evidence of the contrary is provided
              along
              > with the observations/ with the observations/<WBR>experiences. The
              far
              > as I am concerned) that lots of people are waiting for is objective,
              > comparative proofs or disprovals of the statements made by
              biodynamics.
              >
              > Totally independently, it would be interesting to know if the moon
              works
              > on water, nutrients carried in water, if it works on the seed's
              willingness
              > to sprout, if a cow's horn can be substituted with X, and any such
              effects
              > that explain HOW things work -- but that will only secondary to
              gardeners
              > or farmers, who just want to see IF it works, based on a scientific
              > approach.
              >
              > > For those not sure what biodynamics is, email me and I will get
              some
              > > information out to you.
              >
              > If you have a website on your work, please send a URL to the
              mailing list,
              > even if it's work in progress. It'll be great to see what is going
              on,
              > and where you are heading with your research.
              >
              > Thank you for stirring up an interesting line of discussion. I
              would like
              > to get some more information on biodynamics anyway, it's a tickling
              topic
              > to me.
              >
              >
              > Kind regards,
              >
              > Dr.ir. Rick van Rein
              > GroenGemak
              > The Netherlands
              >
              > _http://groengemak.http:/_ (http://groengemak.nl/en/)
              >







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              favorites at AOL Food.
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kate
              Hi there all, Garden Organic in the UK has planted a biodynamic garden; see this link; http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/gardens/biodynamic.php I started getting
              Message 6 of 12 , May 10, 2008
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                Hi there all,
                Garden Organic in the UK has planted a biodynamic garden; see this link;
                http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/gardens/biodynamic.php

                I started getting interested in this last year and can see why the moon may have an influence
                on life. But I cannot get my head round some of the other stuff- a bit too psuedo science/
                religion for my liking- but I am prepared to be proved wrong. However I do believe in
                spiritual forces and I know that on the nano level there is a whole lot of strange physics going
                on that no-one really understands yet. Looking forward to reading how people get on.
                Best wishes
                Kate
              • vic_doyle
                Thanks for your interest, I will be circulating a paper for comments on quite soon. My findings so far have led me to specific evidence of lunation influence
                Message 7 of 12 , May 13, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks for your interest, I will be circulating a paper for comments
                  on quite soon. My findings so far have led me to specific evidence of
                  lunation influence on the strength and rigidity of plants and trees
                  at both a cellular and holistic level.

                  The attached link is to an active site, and also information on the
                  first biodynamic visitor garden in the UK!

                  http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/Research.htm

                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "vic_doyle" <vic_doyle@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am doing some serious research into biodynamics, particularly the
                  > effect of the moons phases on plant and tree growth. I've made some
                  > great breakthroughs in this and I'd like to hear others'
                  experiences. I
                  > intend to publish all my findings and I will credit all sources
                  > accordingly.
                  >
                  > For those not sure what biodynamics is, email me and I will get
                  some
                  > information out to you.
                  >
                  > Many Thanks
                  >
                  > Vic Doyle
                  >
                • vic_doyle
                  Thankyou all for responding in interest to the Biodynamic study I am doing. Please email me at vic_doyle@yahoo.co.uk and I ll send you the mini report I have
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 12, 2008
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                    Thankyou all for responding in interest to the Biodynamic study I am
                    doing.
                    Please email me at vic_doyle@... and I'll send you the mini
                    report I have compiled.

                    Please send your comments back to me within a week.

                    Please credit this information as Victor Doyle's LYDIA theory.

                    Many Thanks

                    Vic
                  • ossi
                    Hello! Great, I would love to read your mini report! Ossi Kakko ossi@kulma.net
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 12, 2008
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                      Hello!

                      Great, I would love to read your mini report!

                      Ossi Kakko
                      ossi@...

                      > Thankyou all for responding in interest to the Biodynamic study I am
                      > doing.
                      > Please email me at vic_doyle@... and I'll send you the mini
                      > report I have compiled.
                      >
                      > Please send your comments back to me within a week.
                      >
                      > Please credit this information as Victor Doyle's LYDIA theory.
                      >
                      > Many Thanks
                      >
                      > Vic
                      >
                      >
                    • Vic Doyle
                      Vic Doyle Arts Development Officer Creative Communities Cwmaman Communities First The Library Cwmaman Hall & Institute Fforchaman Rd Cwmaman Aberdare Rhondda
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 12, 2008
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                        Vic Doyle
                        Arts Development Officer
                        Creative Communities
                        Cwmaman Communities First

                        The Library
                        Cwmaman Hall & Institute
                        Fforchaman Rd
                        Cwmaman
                        Aberdare
                        Rhondda Cynon Taff

                        Telephone 01685 887120
                        Mobile 07752475556



                        vic_doyle@...

                        --- On Sun, 12/10/08, ossi <ossi@...> wrote:

                        From: ossi <ossi@...>
                        Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: Biodynamics
                        To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2008, 8:52 PM






                        Hello!

                        Great, I would love to read your mini report!

                        Ossi Kakko
                        ossi@...

                        > Thankyou all for responding in interest to the Biodynamic study I am
                        > doing.
                        > Please email me at vic_doyle@yahoo. co.uk and I'll send you the mini
                        > report I have compiled.
                        >
                        > Please send your comments back to me within a week.
                        >
                        > Please credit this information as Victor Doyle's LYDIA theory.
                        >
                        > Many Thanks
                        >
                        > Vic
                        >
                        >


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jayabuddhi2006
                        ... Dear Vic I m organic farmer from Sri Lanka . Please send me your Mini Report . Because I have very keen interest in organic farming . and also I am looking
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
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                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "vic_doyle" <vic_doyle@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thankyou all for responding in interest to the Biodynamic study I am
                          > doing.
                          > Please email me at vic_doyle@... and I'll send you the mini
                          > report I have compiled.
                          >
                          > Please send your comments back to me within a week.
                          >
                          > Please credit this information as Victor Doyle's LYDIA theory.
                          >
                          > Many Thanks
                          >
                          > Vic
                          >
                          Dear Vic
                          I m organic farmer from Sri Lanka . Please send me your Mini Report .
                          Because I have very keen interest in organic farming . and also I am
                          looking for a practical work study program me
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