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Re: [pfaf] growing food trees in public places

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  • Javier Cosp
    In Paraguay we have a lot of mangoes in public places. They are eaten by poor people but most of them goes to the garbage. Javier ... From: Michael Porter To:
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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      In Paraguay we have a lot of mangoes in public places. They are
      eaten by poor people but most of them goes to the garbage.

      Javier



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael Porter
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:48 AM
      Subject: Re: [pfaf] growing food trees in public places


      -some examples of good trees for public places are, --Nut trees- especially Pecan, Black walnut, Almond , and their relatives,
      --in warmer areas Moringa and Chaya, would be good, --and Fragrant Spring Tree [ edible foliage] can be grown in a wide range of climates, --these would be better choices than some other fruit trees when human nature is considered, --Michael Porter

      Rick van Rein <rick@...> wrote:
      Hello,

      I would love to see more edible trees in public green as well, and even
      wonder if we'll be in time getting them setup.

      > I can understand that if apples and pears were grown in public
      > places, things being as they are these days, no doubt they would be
      > ravaged and vandalised before too long.

      And the same goes for chestnuts over here. People who are more linked
      to nature (usually Turkish people in NL) tend to do a lot to get
      (at least) their share of the food, including picking it too early
      and climbing into the tree or hitting it to get the harvest down.

      I can see governments avoiding this overactive harvesting practice by
      avoiding edible trees; I can also see them simply being ignorant of an
      upcoming shortage of food and simply choose pretty plants. We have a
      strong tendency in the Western world to separate plants into pretty
      ones and edible ones. I'm attacking that in a local project with a
      600 m2 permaculture which integrates these two aspects, found on
      http://haarlebrink.robstuinaanleg.nl/index.php/Hoofdpagina (in Dutch,
      as this project aims to teach localsnot the World). We're now in the
      second year, and planning tours for the government. Of course we take
      our time to mention what improvements are possible in public green
      space and what purposes it serves. Given our "proof" in this project
      we tend to catch their interest.

      As we enter the era of starvation (or more likely, food on consumption
      tickets supplied by governments) chances are that this knowledge will
      revive and selfish harvesting are started. (Then again, during WW II
      the farmers had enough but I don't think people tried to grow food
      for themselves, or did they?)

      I wonder if we'll be in time before peak oil hits us and food supplies
      drop, but I'm happy about the trend for even slowly-adapting ("let's
      keep everything normal / as is and all will be fine") Netherlands
      towards organic food -- which is likely to be part of the solution.

      Are trees the ultimate solution? Not sure, they give a lot but also
      occupy a lot of space, and usually that's public space. I'd go for
      weeds as a major ingredient in our meals, to be honest. These are
      easily grown, locally adjusted crops but we'll need to get over some
      mental thresholds to get there. I just ran around the allocation
      garden plot where we hold a piece, and noticed edible weeds growing,
      and being ready to eat without being harvested. I wondered why :)

      I started a small company, named GroenGemak (it has a local Dutch focus,
      hence the name which means Easily Durable, although the website is
      bilingual at http://groengemak.nl/en/ ) in which I do things like
      offer advice to people and the local government on subject like these,
      and edible trees are high up on my agenda.

      I've heard about an initiative in Birmingham where people bought apple
      tried en masse and therefore got them at a good price. Almost everybody
      likes to have his own apple tree in their backyard (paved backyards being
      one of the things I fail to understand) and when guided as to how they
      should be pruned, people easily see the point of harvesting from a
      perennial plant such as a tree.

      > Todays children rarely seem to know or care about what grows
      > wild,

      The children in my neighbourhood showed me how to crack hazelnuts and
      eat them. I still am the only adult who collects them as an ingredient
      though.

      > and many have no idea where their common food plants come from
      > either.

      The grow on machines, don't they?

      Well actually they do in more and more casus, "thanks" to in-vitro
      technology...

      I do urge you to talk to your local government, especially in the fashion
      of "adding to their knowledge". You may actually be listened to better
      if you charge for consulting services.

      The way we got in with our local permaculture project is through a project
      to improve the neighbourhood in a social manner -- anything that could
      get people to do things together and see how profitable that is would
      have worked for them. Our project has been a great success in that respect,
      and now we have caught their attention. We'll do all we can to get the
      permaculturally best out of that :)

      Cheers,

      Rick van Rein
      GroenGemak

      http://groengemak.nl/en/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Traveler in Thyme
      During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also working with professional landscapers, I ve been told over and over that nobody wants fruit
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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        During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also working
        with professional landscapers, I've been told over and over that nobody
        wants fruit or nut trees in parks or along streets because of the Mess.
        Foolish humans. If you pick all the fruit, there is no mess! But the
        persist in planting "flowering pears" and "flowering plums" that bear no
        fruits, and disallowing vegetables in front lawns.

        Also, I've read that plants within 25 feet of a busy street, or 75 feet from
        a highway, are often contaminated with large amounts of lead and other
        exhaust fumes. What used to be the runoff gullies for creeks, where the
        good soil accumulates, are now mostly drainage ditches and covered culverts,
        and even if tasty weeds grow there, they are not safe to eat.

        I lived on pecans picked up along the streets when I was a college student
        in Austin.......it always amazes me how many go to waste when they are
        within easy reach. You must respect the rights of the owners, but they
        often do not care, or they would obviously have harvested the crops
        themselves. ????

        Marcia Cash
        ~Traveler in Thyme~


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ariel023
        Hi all Olives and figs are common here in public places along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of date palm and Carob tThe male mullberry,
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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          Hi all

          Olives and figs are common here in public places
          along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of
          date palm and Carob


          tThe male mullberry, pecans along roads are rather newly
          planted

          Various citrus rootstocks, passionfruits and grapes are also
          common but in specific cities

          No mango is planted here on a road side or public
        • Michael Porter
          The Olive and Fig sound like good ideas for useful public trees, --Michael ariel023 wrote: Hi all Olives and figs are common
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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            The Olive and Fig sound like good ideas for useful "public" trees, --Michael

            ariel023 <ariel023@...> wrote: Hi all

            Olives and figs are common here in public places
            along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of
            date palm and Carob

            tThe male mullberry, pecans along roads are rather newly
            planted

            Various citrus rootstocks, passionfruits and grapes are also
            common but in specific cities

            No mango is planted here on a road side or public





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Infowolf1@aol.com
            excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives has made laws you d best check
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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              excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
              errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
              has made laws you'd best check on.

              Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
              time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.

              Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
              go before a city planning commission or something do so.

              Mary Christine Erikson


              In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              martinwnaylor@... writes:

              It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are
              the public





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • vic_doyle
              Elected Representatives make up all sorts of crap laws and policies which have led to immense Oil Wars dressed as Human Rights and young people living in
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                Elected Representatives make up all sorts of crap laws and policies
                which have led to immense Oil Wars dressed as "Human Rights" and
                young people living in places were there are no facilities unless you
                own a car. In fact the "1984" style "dumbing down and law making" is
                leading to lives where you're banned from smoking a cigarette but
                have no redress to living in towns and cities choked by petrol and
                diesel fumes and vehicle smog & noise.

                If the lawmakers designed a racehorse it would look like Camel,
                that's why they don't plant fruit trees in public places.

                Bring on the Free Food Tree Planters and leave the Nimby Gas guzzling
                Fascists in their plastic/asbestos/MDF offices to ROT I say.

                On a lighter note:

                By the way, I plant redcurrant bushes all over the place, they are
                easy to transplant and are a beautiful and useful plant which
                introduces to children that food doesn't just come from Wallmart
                (next to the Gun Counter!).


                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                >
                > excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                > errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                > has made laws you'd best check on.
                >
                > Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of
                your
                > time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.
                >
                > Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                > go before a city planning commission or something do so.
                >
                > Mary Christine Erikson
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                > martinwnaylor@... writes:
                >
                > It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open
                places we are
                > the public
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                Guides.
                > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
                ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • vic_doyle
                Exactly! If the fumes are poisining the plants, what are the fumes doing to us? Ban the car not fruit! ... working ... nobody ... Mess. ... But the ... bear no
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                  Exactly! If the fumes are poisining the plants, what are the fumes
                  doing to us? Ban the car not fruit!


                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also
                  working
                  > with professional landscapers, I've been told over and over that
                  nobody
                  > wants fruit or nut trees in parks or along streets because of the
                  Mess.
                  > Foolish humans. If you pick all the fruit, there is no mess!
                  But the
                  > persist in planting "flowering pears" and "flowering plums" that
                  bear no
                  > fruits, and disallowing vegetables in front lawns.
                  >
                  > Also, I've read that plants within 25 feet of a busy street, or 75
                  feet from
                  > a highway, are often contaminated with large amounts of lead and
                  other
                  > exhaust fumes. What used to be the runoff gullies for creeks,
                  where the
                  > good soil accumulates, are now mostly drainage ditches and covered
                  culverts,
                  > and even if tasty weeds grow there, they are not safe to eat.
                  >
                  > I lived on pecans picked up along the streets when I was a college
                  student
                  > in Austin.......it always amazes me how many go to waste when they
                  are
                  > within easy reach. You must respect the rights of the owners, but
                  they
                  > often do not care, or they would obviously have harvested the crops
                  > themselves. ????
                  >
                  > Marcia Cash
                  > ~Traveler in Thyme~
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Marc Bailey
                  Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are forced to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                    Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are forced to follow the money in order to have the funds to buy the airtime to get reelected. In southern california developers have managed to take control of local government officials and has lead to out of control developments that often isn't in the interest of anyone but the developer's pocket.

                    The following video covers this concept very well and ways that a city was able to positively transform public space:
                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVq0exoGySc&feature=related

                    Cheers,
                    -Marc

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "Infowolf1@..." <Infowolf1@...>
                    To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:48:33 AM
                    Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: growing food trees in public places

                    excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                    errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                    has made laws you'd best check on.

                    Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
                    time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.

                    Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                    go before a city planning commission or something do so.

                    Mary Christine Erikson


                    In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                    martinwnaylor@ yahoo.com. au writes:

                    It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are
                    the public

                    ************ **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
                    (http://travel. aol.com/travel- guide/united- states?ncid= aoltrv0003000000 0016)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                  • ingrid glass
                    Just seen this about to be published : http://www.guerrillagardening.org/onguerrillagardening.html It s a pity the link to buy goes to Amazon - order from your
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 9, 2008
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                      Just seen this about to be published : http://www.guerrillagardening.org/onguerrillagardening.html

                      It's a pity the link to buy goes to Amazon - order from your local independent bookstore!! Ingrid
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                    • Mathew Waehner
                      I do a bit of gardening in public and abandoned places, but not quite the same as we ve been talking about here- I would describe it as casual foraging
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 9, 2008
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                        I do a bit of gardening in public and abandoned places, but not quite the
                        same as we've been talking about here- I would describe it as casual
                        foraging permaculture. For example, when I gather wild blackberries, I
                        groom them by cutting the Japanese honeysuckle that tries to overtake them.
                        I'm also planning to sow seeds from my forest garden plants throughout my
                        city's greenway system.

                        Maybe the place to put our edible plants is the semi- wild perimeter of
                        public spaces. I think that good permaculture food forestry looks like a
                        natural forest to the casual eye.

                        If we are willing to work with native plants and small seedlings, we could
                        create an entire forest garden that everyone else would think is "natural".
                        Since we will be giving minimal care to these plants, any that don't
                        function properly in the system will eventually die off.

                        Of course, this kind of casual management is natural- indigenous people have
                        always tended the plants that sustain them.



                        On 4/8/08, Marc Bailey <playtoe1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these
                        > changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are
                        > forced to follow the money in order to have the funds to buy the airtime to
                        > get reelected. In southern california developers have managed to take
                        > control of local government officials and has lead to out of control
                        > developments that often isn't in the interest of anyone but the developer's
                        > pocket.
                        >
                        > The following video covers this concept very well and ways that a city was
                        > able to positively transform public space:
                        > http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVq0exoGySc&feature=related
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > -Marc
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: "Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1%40aol.com>" <Infowolf1@...<Infowolf1%40aol.com>
                        > >
                        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com <pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:48:33 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: growing food trees in public places
                        >
                        > excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                        > errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                        > has made laws you'd best check on.
                        >
                        > Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
                        > time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.
                        >
                        > Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                        > go before a city planning commission or something do so.
                        >
                        > Mary Christine Erikson
                        >
                        >
                        > In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                        > martinwnaylor@ yahoo.com. au writes:
                        >
                        > It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we
                        > are
                        > the public
                        >
                        > ************ **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                        > Guides.
                        > (http://travel. aol.com/travel- guide/united- states?ncid=
                        > aoltrv0003000000 0016)
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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                        > __________________________________________________________
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                        --
                        Matt

                        This is our grace: To be a note
                        In the exact chord that animates creation

                        -- Deena Metzger


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Traveler in Thyme
                        Yes, Matthew! Come live in my neighborhood, we have several neighbors who have given me permission to scape their land if it can be kept natural looking ,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 12, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, Matthew! Come live in my neighborhood, we have several neighbors who
                          have given me permission to 'scape their land if it can be kept "natural
                          looking", though the job is hopeless unless we thin out the cedar scrub and
                          the whitetail deer. Our fenced back yard looks like a jungle, but almost
                          everything in it is useful to us humans, and the rest is useful to birds and
                          butterflies. Outside the fence, where the deer overgraze, looks like the
                          moon. Overgrazing causes cedar to take over, which kills everything else,
                          but slashing and burning the cedar just makes things worse. The mistakes
                          of the past haunt us here in Central Texas.

                          Marcia Cash
                          ~Traveler in Thyme~


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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