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Re: [pfaf] growing food trees in public places

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  • Teeter
    I always wondered the same. Why plant just flowering trees when you could plant something useful to everyone on the roadsides or in town. I guess they are
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 6, 2008
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      I always wondered the same. Why plant just flowering trees when you could
      plant something useful to everyone on the roadsides or in town. I guess they
      are thinking more on the lines that people wouldnt buy it at the store if
      they could get it free outside. Its a shame everything has come to that. I
      have given away almost 50 peach trees and have pulled up another 25 this
      week from my garden. I lost 5 trees this year from old age and have
      discovered that the trees that popped up about 4 years ago are producing
      now. I think I will find a place to plant these in doubles out in the woods
      in different places. There is a guy that lets people come to his property to
      get fresh spring water so I think I will plant a few on his property. Many
      people go there, even myself. Maybe I could plant a few other things there
      without it being noticed. He doesnt use the property except to let people
      get fresh water so I am sure he wont mind, and it would keep it wooded like
      he wants.

      Theresa

      On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Mary Lloyd <mary@...> wrote:

      > Hi all,
      > I am busy on my edible garden exploring the subject of perennial
      > vegetables and having a lot of fun.
      > Meanwhile, browsing the database, a comment caught my eye about
      > the labour involved in harvesting chestnuts as opposed to wheat as an
      > annual. As a small girl living in Kent, my family would always enjoy
      > chestnutting trips in the Autumn, and then come home to roast them
      > around the fire, or boil them, or eat them raw if the skin still had
      > white on and you could easily remove the pith.
      > Moving to Wales in my late teens, I was rather disappointed to
      > discover that there are few chestnut trees in the Welsh countryside, at
      > least in the areas where I have lived. I notice that parks departments
      > are fond of growing Horse Chestnut (conkers) and ornamental cherry, and
      > a number of show trees that produce no crop, or nothing edible.
      > I hope it isn't mean-spiritedness that prevents them from growing
      > more useful trees in public places. Why, for instance, don't they grow
      > proper fruiting cherries instead of ornamental ones, plums, cob nuts,
      > and a few sweet chestnuts to warm our tummies free of charge?
      > I can understand that if apples and pears were grown in public
      > places, things being as they are these days, no doubt they would be
      > ravaged and vandalised before too long. But less-known food-producing
      > tree species would not even be noticed, except by those in the
      > know....especially if they were planted carefully and not like soldiers
      > in a row. Then people hitting hard times would not be short of a meal if
      > they were prepared to walk a bit.
      > There was a little pear tree on the village green where I lived
      > as a girl, and the pears it bore were delicious mini-treats, hardly a
      > mouthful a piece. I don't know anyone who was aware of that tree besides
      > me and my family, though every year it seemed to produce quite a crop. I
      > don't even know if it was wild, or even if there is such a thing as a
      > wild pear....but it would be wonderful to taste those things again after
      > all these years.
      > Todays children rarely seem to know or care about what grows
      > wild, and many have no idea where their common food plants come from
      > either. I find that very sad, but rather a dark truth that shows how we
      > have become an easy-come, easy-go society. Cooking is fashionable
      > enough, and no one has an option whether to eat or not. But in
      > satisfying the desire for anything we want on the plate, there is rarely
      > any thought about food sustainability, and seemingly we treat obtaining
      > foods in the same kind of wanton way we have used fuel resources in the
      > past.
      > If we are going to experience food shortages, as is now
      > predicted, now is the time to get planting a few trees like we did...was
      > it...45 years ago? "plant a tree in '63"....my my, time does fly! But
      > this time lets plant some wherever we can that would bear some kind of a
      > useful crop.
      > Love, Whinnie
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rick van Rein
      Hello, I would love to see more edible trees in public green as well, and even wonder if we ll be in time getting them setup. ... And the same goes for
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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        Hello,

        I would love to see more edible trees in public green as well, and even
        wonder if we'll be in time getting them setup.

        > I can understand that if apples and pears were grown in public
        > places, things being as they are these days, no doubt they would be
        > ravaged and vandalised before too long.

        And the same goes for chestnuts over here. People who are more linked
        to nature (usually Turkish people in NL) tend to do a lot to get
        (at least) their share of the food, including picking it too early
        and climbing into the tree or hitting it to get the harvest down.

        I can see governments avoiding this overactive harvesting practice by
        avoiding edible trees; I can also see them simply being ignorant of an
        upcoming shortage of food and simply choose pretty plants. We have a
        strong tendency in the Western world to separate plants into pretty
        ones and edible ones. I'm attacking that in a local project with a
        600 m2 permaculture which integrates these two aspects, found on
        http://haarlebrink.robstuinaanleg.nl/index.php/Hoofdpagina (in Dutch,
        as this project aims to teach localsnot the World). We're now in the
        second year, and planning tours for the government. Of course we take
        our time to mention what improvements are possible in public green
        space and what purposes it serves. Given our "proof" in this project
        we tend to catch their interest.

        As we enter the era of starvation (or more likely, food on consumption
        tickets supplied by governments) chances are that this knowledge will
        revive and selfish harvesting are started. (Then again, during WW II
        the farmers had enough but I don't think people tried to grow food
        for themselves, or did they?)

        I wonder if we'll be in time before peak oil hits us and food supplies
        drop, but I'm happy about the trend for even slowly-adapting ("let's
        keep everything normal / as is and all will be fine") Netherlands
        towards organic food -- which is likely to be part of the solution.

        Are trees the ultimate solution? Not sure, they give a lot but also
        occupy a lot of space, and usually that's public space. I'd go for
        weeds as a major ingredient in our meals, to be honest. These are
        easily grown, locally adjusted crops but we'll need to get over some
        mental thresholds to get there. I just ran around the allocation
        garden plot where we hold a piece, and noticed edible weeds growing,
        and being ready to eat without being harvested. I wondered why :)

        I started a small company, named GroenGemak (it has a local Dutch focus,
        hence the name which means Easily Durable, although the website is
        bilingual at http://groengemak.nl/en/ ) in which I do things like
        offer advice to people and the local government on subject like these,
        and edible trees are high up on my agenda.

        I've heard about an initiative in Birmingham where people bought apple
        tried en masse and therefore got them at a good price. Almost everybody
        likes to have his own apple tree in their backyard (paved backyards being
        one of the things I fail to understand) and when guided as to how they
        should be pruned, people easily see the point of harvesting from a
        perennial plant such as a tree.

        > Todays children rarely seem to know or care about what grows
        > wild,

        The children in my neighbourhood showed me how to crack hazelnuts and
        eat them. I still am the only adult who collects them as an ingredient
        though.

        > and many have no idea where their common food plants come from
        > either.

        The grow on machines, don't they?

        Well actually they do in more and more casus, "thanks" to in-vitro
        technology...


        I do urge you to talk to your local government, especially in the fashion
        of "adding to their knowledge". You may actually be listened to better
        if you charge for consulting services.

        The way we got in with our local permaculture project is through a project
        to improve the neighbourhood in a social manner -- anything that could
        get people to do things together and see how profitable that is would
        have worked for them. Our project has been a great success in that respect,
        and now we have caught their attention. We'll do all we can to get the
        permaculturally best out of that :)


        Cheers,

        Rick van Rein
        GroenGemak

        http://groengemak.nl/en/
      • Michael Porter
        -some examples of good trees for public places are, --Nut trees- especially Pecan, Black walnut, Almond , and their relatives, --in warmer areas Moringa and
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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          -some examples of good trees for public places are, --Nut trees- especially Pecan, Black walnut, Almond , and their relatives,
          --in warmer areas Moringa and Chaya, would be good, --and Fragrant Spring Tree [ edible foliage] can be grown in a wide range of climates, --these would be better choices than some other fruit trees when human nature is considered, --Michael Porter

          Rick van Rein <rick@...> wrote:
          Hello,

          I would love to see more edible trees in public green as well, and even
          wonder if we'll be in time getting them setup.

          > I can understand that if apples and pears were grown in public
          > places, things being as they are these days, no doubt they would be
          > ravaged and vandalised before too long.

          And the same goes for chestnuts over here. People who are more linked
          to nature (usually Turkish people in NL) tend to do a lot to get
          (at least) their share of the food, including picking it too early
          and climbing into the tree or hitting it to get the harvest down.

          I can see governments avoiding this overactive harvesting practice by
          avoiding edible trees; I can also see them simply being ignorant of an
          upcoming shortage of food and simply choose pretty plants. We have a
          strong tendency in the Western world to separate plants into pretty
          ones and edible ones. I'm attacking that in a local project with a
          600 m2 permaculture which integrates these two aspects, found on
          http://haarlebrink.robstuinaanleg.nl/index.php/Hoofdpagina (in Dutch,
          as this project aims to teach localsnot the World). We're now in the
          second year, and planning tours for the government. Of course we take
          our time to mention what improvements are possible in public green
          space and what purposes it serves. Given our "proof" in this project
          we tend to catch their interest.

          As we enter the era of starvation (or more likely, food on consumption
          tickets supplied by governments) chances are that this knowledge will
          revive and selfish harvesting are started. (Then again, during WW II
          the farmers had enough but I don't think people tried to grow food
          for themselves, or did they?)

          I wonder if we'll be in time before peak oil hits us and food supplies
          drop, but I'm happy about the trend for even slowly-adapting ("let's
          keep everything normal / as is and all will be fine") Netherlands
          towards organic food -- which is likely to be part of the solution.

          Are trees the ultimate solution? Not sure, they give a lot but also
          occupy a lot of space, and usually that's public space. I'd go for
          weeds as a major ingredient in our meals, to be honest. These are
          easily grown, locally adjusted crops but we'll need to get over some
          mental thresholds to get there. I just ran around the allocation
          garden plot where we hold a piece, and noticed edible weeds growing,
          and being ready to eat without being harvested. I wondered why :)

          I started a small company, named GroenGemak (it has a local Dutch focus,
          hence the name which means Easily Durable, although the website is
          bilingual at http://groengemak.nl/en/ ) in which I do things like
          offer advice to people and the local government on subject like these,
          and edible trees are high up on my agenda.

          I've heard about an initiative in Birmingham where people bought apple
          tried en masse and therefore got them at a good price. Almost everybody
          likes to have his own apple tree in their backyard (paved backyards being
          one of the things I fail to understand) and when guided as to how they
          should be pruned, people easily see the point of harvesting from a
          perennial plant such as a tree.

          > Todays children rarely seem to know or care about what grows
          > wild,

          The children in my neighbourhood showed me how to crack hazelnuts and
          eat them. I still am the only adult who collects them as an ingredient
          though.

          > and many have no idea where their common food plants come from
          > either.

          The grow on machines, don't they?

          Well actually they do in more and more casus, "thanks" to in-vitro
          technology...

          I do urge you to talk to your local government, especially in the fashion
          of "adding to their knowledge". You may actually be listened to better
          if you charge for consulting services.

          The way we got in with our local permaculture project is through a project
          to improve the neighbourhood in a social manner -- anything that could
          get people to do things together and see how profitable that is would
          have worked for them. Our project has been a great success in that respect,
          and now we have caught their attention. We'll do all we can to get the
          permaculturally best out of that :)

          Cheers,

          Rick van Rein
          GroenGemak

          http://groengemak.nl/en/






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Martin Naylor
          It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are the public the joys of scrumping martin Law? what do I care for the law?Hain t I
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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            It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are the public

            the joys of scrumping
            martin


            Law? what do I care for the law?Hain't I got the power?
            - Commodore Vanderbilt
            I owe the public nothing.
            - J.P. Morgan



            ---------------------------------
            Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Javier Cosp
            In Paraguay we have a lot of mangoes in public places. They are eaten by poor people but most of them goes to the garbage. Javier ... From: Michael Porter To:
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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              In Paraguay we have a lot of mangoes in public places. They are
              eaten by poor people but most of them goes to the garbage.

              Javier



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Michael Porter
              To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:48 AM
              Subject: Re: [pfaf] growing food trees in public places


              -some examples of good trees for public places are, --Nut trees- especially Pecan, Black walnut, Almond , and their relatives,
              --in warmer areas Moringa and Chaya, would be good, --and Fragrant Spring Tree [ edible foliage] can be grown in a wide range of climates, --these would be better choices than some other fruit trees when human nature is considered, --Michael Porter

              Rick van Rein <rick@...> wrote:
              Hello,

              I would love to see more edible trees in public green as well, and even
              wonder if we'll be in time getting them setup.

              > I can understand that if apples and pears were grown in public
              > places, things being as they are these days, no doubt they would be
              > ravaged and vandalised before too long.

              And the same goes for chestnuts over here. People who are more linked
              to nature (usually Turkish people in NL) tend to do a lot to get
              (at least) their share of the food, including picking it too early
              and climbing into the tree or hitting it to get the harvest down.

              I can see governments avoiding this overactive harvesting practice by
              avoiding edible trees; I can also see them simply being ignorant of an
              upcoming shortage of food and simply choose pretty plants. We have a
              strong tendency in the Western world to separate plants into pretty
              ones and edible ones. I'm attacking that in a local project with a
              600 m2 permaculture which integrates these two aspects, found on
              http://haarlebrink.robstuinaanleg.nl/index.php/Hoofdpagina (in Dutch,
              as this project aims to teach localsnot the World). We're now in the
              second year, and planning tours for the government. Of course we take
              our time to mention what improvements are possible in public green
              space and what purposes it serves. Given our "proof" in this project
              we tend to catch their interest.

              As we enter the era of starvation (or more likely, food on consumption
              tickets supplied by governments) chances are that this knowledge will
              revive and selfish harvesting are started. (Then again, during WW II
              the farmers had enough but I don't think people tried to grow food
              for themselves, or did they?)

              I wonder if we'll be in time before peak oil hits us and food supplies
              drop, but I'm happy about the trend for even slowly-adapting ("let's
              keep everything normal / as is and all will be fine") Netherlands
              towards organic food -- which is likely to be part of the solution.

              Are trees the ultimate solution? Not sure, they give a lot but also
              occupy a lot of space, and usually that's public space. I'd go for
              weeds as a major ingredient in our meals, to be honest. These are
              easily grown, locally adjusted crops but we'll need to get over some
              mental thresholds to get there. I just ran around the allocation
              garden plot where we hold a piece, and noticed edible weeds growing,
              and being ready to eat without being harvested. I wondered why :)

              I started a small company, named GroenGemak (it has a local Dutch focus,
              hence the name which means Easily Durable, although the website is
              bilingual at http://groengemak.nl/en/ ) in which I do things like
              offer advice to people and the local government on subject like these,
              and edible trees are high up on my agenda.

              I've heard about an initiative in Birmingham where people bought apple
              tried en masse and therefore got them at a good price. Almost everybody
              likes to have his own apple tree in their backyard (paved backyards being
              one of the things I fail to understand) and when guided as to how they
              should be pruned, people easily see the point of harvesting from a
              perennial plant such as a tree.

              > Todays children rarely seem to know or care about what grows
              > wild,

              The children in my neighbourhood showed me how to crack hazelnuts and
              eat them. I still am the only adult who collects them as an ingredient
              though.

              > and many have no idea where their common food plants come from
              > either.

              The grow on machines, don't they?

              Well actually they do in more and more casus, "thanks" to in-vitro
              technology...

              I do urge you to talk to your local government, especially in the fashion
              of "adding to their knowledge". You may actually be listened to better
              if you charge for consulting services.

              The way we got in with our local permaculture project is through a project
              to improve the neighbourhood in a social manner -- anything that could
              get people to do things together and see how profitable that is would
              have worked for them. Our project has been a great success in that respect,
              and now we have caught their attention. We'll do all we can to get the
              permaculturally best out of that :)

              Cheers,

              Rick van Rein
              GroenGemak

              http://groengemak.nl/en/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Traveler in Thyme
              During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also working with professional landscapers, I ve been told over and over that nobody wants fruit
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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                During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also working
                with professional landscapers, I've been told over and over that nobody
                wants fruit or nut trees in parks or along streets because of the Mess.
                Foolish humans. If you pick all the fruit, there is no mess! But the
                persist in planting "flowering pears" and "flowering plums" that bear no
                fruits, and disallowing vegetables in front lawns.

                Also, I've read that plants within 25 feet of a busy street, or 75 feet from
                a highway, are often contaminated with large amounts of lead and other
                exhaust fumes. What used to be the runoff gullies for creeks, where the
                good soil accumulates, are now mostly drainage ditches and covered culverts,
                and even if tasty weeds grow there, they are not safe to eat.

                I lived on pecans picked up along the streets when I was a college student
                in Austin.......it always amazes me how many go to waste when they are
                within easy reach. You must respect the rights of the owners, but they
                often do not care, or they would obviously have harvested the crops
                themselves. ????

                Marcia Cash
                ~Traveler in Thyme~


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ariel023
                Hi all Olives and figs are common here in public places along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of date palm and Carob tThe male mullberry,
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 7, 2008
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                  Hi all

                  Olives and figs are common here in public places
                  along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of
                  date palm and Carob


                  tThe male mullberry, pecans along roads are rather newly
                  planted

                  Various citrus rootstocks, passionfruits and grapes are also
                  common but in specific cities

                  No mango is planted here on a road side or public
                • Michael Porter
                  The Olive and Fig sound like good ideas for useful public trees, --Michael ariel023 wrote: Hi all Olives and figs are common
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                    The Olive and Fig sound like good ideas for useful "public" trees, --Michael

                    ariel023 <ariel023@...> wrote: Hi all

                    Olives and figs are common here in public places
                    along roads you may even find the prickly pear and lots of
                    date palm and Carob

                    tThe male mullberry, pecans along roads are rather newly
                    planted

                    Various citrus rootstocks, passionfruits and grapes are also
                    common but in specific cities

                    No mango is planted here on a road side or public





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                    excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives has made laws you d best check
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                      excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                      errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                      has made laws you'd best check on.

                      Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
                      time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.

                      Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                      go before a city planning commission or something do so.

                      Mary Christine Erikson


                      In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                      martinwnaylor@... writes:

                      It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are
                      the public





                      **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
                      (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • vic_doyle
                      Elected Representatives make up all sorts of crap laws and policies which have led to immense Oil Wars dressed as Human Rights and young people living in
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                        Elected Representatives make up all sorts of crap laws and policies
                        which have led to immense Oil Wars dressed as "Human Rights" and
                        young people living in places were there are no facilities unless you
                        own a car. In fact the "1984" style "dumbing down and law making" is
                        leading to lives where you're banned from smoking a cigarette but
                        have no redress to living in towns and cities choked by petrol and
                        diesel fumes and vehicle smog & noise.

                        If the lawmakers designed a racehorse it would look like Camel,
                        that's why they don't plant fruit trees in public places.

                        Bring on the Free Food Tree Planters and leave the Nimby Gas guzzling
                        Fascists in their plastic/asbestos/MDF offices to ROT I say.

                        On a lighter note:

                        By the way, I plant redcurrant bushes all over the place, they are
                        easy to transplant and are a beautiful and useful plant which
                        introduces to children that food doesn't just come from Wallmart
                        (next to the Gun Counter!).


                        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                        >
                        > excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                        > errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                        > has made laws you'd best check on.
                        >
                        > Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of
                        your
                        > time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.
                        >
                        > Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                        > go before a city planning commission or something do so.
                        >
                        > Mary Christine Erikson
                        >
                        >
                        > In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                        > martinwnaylor@... writes:
                        >
                        > It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open
                        places we are
                        > the public
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                        Guides.
                        > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?
                        ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • vic_doyle
                        Exactly! If the fumes are poisining the plants, what are the fumes doing to us? Ban the car not fruit! ... working ... nobody ... Mess. ... But the ... bear no
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
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                          Exactly! If the fumes are poisining the plants, what are the fumes
                          doing to us? Ban the car not fruit!


                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > During my terms as Arbor Day chairman for the Garden Club, and also
                          working
                          > with professional landscapers, I've been told over and over that
                          nobody
                          > wants fruit or nut trees in parks or along streets because of the
                          Mess.
                          > Foolish humans. If you pick all the fruit, there is no mess!
                          But the
                          > persist in planting "flowering pears" and "flowering plums" that
                          bear no
                          > fruits, and disallowing vegetables in front lawns.
                          >
                          > Also, I've read that plants within 25 feet of a busy street, or 75
                          feet from
                          > a highway, are often contaminated with large amounts of lead and
                          other
                          > exhaust fumes. What used to be the runoff gullies for creeks,
                          where the
                          > good soil accumulates, are now mostly drainage ditches and covered
                          culverts,
                          > and even if tasty weeds grow there, they are not safe to eat.
                          >
                          > I lived on pecans picked up along the streets when I was a college
                          student
                          > in Austin.......it always amazes me how many go to waste when they
                          are
                          > within easy reach. You must respect the rights of the owners, but
                          they
                          > often do not care, or they would obviously have harvested the crops
                          > themselves. ????
                          >
                          > Marcia Cash
                          > ~Traveler in Thyme~
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Marc Bailey
                          Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are forced to
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 8, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are forced to follow the money in order to have the funds to buy the airtime to get reelected. In southern california developers have managed to take control of local government officials and has lead to out of control developments that often isn't in the interest of anyone but the developer's pocket.

                            The following video covers this concept very well and ways that a city was able to positively transform public space:
                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVq0exoGySc&feature=related

                            Cheers,
                            -Marc

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: "Infowolf1@..." <Infowolf1@...>
                            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:48:33 AM
                            Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: growing food trees in public places

                            excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                            errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                            has made laws you'd best check on.

                            Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
                            time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.

                            Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                            go before a city planning commission or something do so.

                            Mary Christine Erikson


                            In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            martinwnaylor@ yahoo.com. au writes:

                            It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we are
                            the public

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                          • ingrid glass
                            Just seen this about to be published : http://www.guerrillagardening.org/onguerrillagardening.html It s a pity the link to buy goes to Amazon - order from your
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 9, 2008
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                              Just seen this about to be published : http://www.guerrillagardening.org/onguerrillagardening.html

                              It's a pity the link to buy goes to Amazon - order from your local independent bookstore!! Ingrid
                              _________________________________________________________________
                              Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
                              http://www.bigsnapsearch.com

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                            • Mathew Waehner
                              I do a bit of gardening in public and abandoned places, but not quite the same as we ve been talking about here- I would describe it as casual foraging
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 9, 2008
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                                I do a bit of gardening in public and abandoned places, but not quite the
                                same as we've been talking about here- I would describe it as casual
                                foraging permaculture. For example, when I gather wild blackberries, I
                                groom them by cutting the Japanese honeysuckle that tries to overtake them.
                                I'm also planning to sow seeds from my forest garden plants throughout my
                                city's greenway system.

                                Maybe the place to put our edible plants is the semi- wild perimeter of
                                public spaces. I think that good permaculture food forestry looks like a
                                natural forest to the casual eye.

                                If we are willing to work with native plants and small seedlings, we could
                                create an entire forest garden that everyone else would think is "natural".
                                Since we will be giving minimal care to these plants, any that don't
                                function properly in the system will eventually die off.

                                Of course, this kind of casual management is natural- indigenous people have
                                always tended the plants that sustain them.



                                On 4/8/08, Marc Bailey <playtoe1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Its often not practical to start with government to begin making these
                                > changes. Instead of listening to their constituents many politicians are
                                > forced to follow the money in order to have the funds to buy the airtime to
                                > get reelected. In southern california developers have managed to take
                                > control of local government officials and has lead to out of control
                                > developments that often isn't in the interest of anyone but the developer's
                                > pocket.
                                >
                                > The following video covers this concept very well and ways that a city was
                                > able to positively transform public space:
                                > http://youtube.com/watch?v=qVq0exoGySc&feature=related
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > -Marc
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: "Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1%40aol.com>" <Infowolf1@...<Infowolf1%40aol.com>
                                > >
                                > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com <pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:48:33 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: growing food trees in public places
                                >
                                > excuse me? The public consists of everybody as a whole not of
                                > errant individuals. And The Public via its elected representatives
                                > has made laws you'd best check on.
                                >
                                > Or you risk destruction of illegal plantings which is a waste of your
                                > time and efforts and of the plants themselves, and maybe a fine.
                                >
                                > Check with your local jurisdiction about this stuff. If you have to
                                > go before a city planning commission or something do so.
                                >
                                > Mary Christine Erikson
                                >
                                >
                                > In a message dated 4/7/2008 3:12:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                > martinwnaylor@ yahoo.com. au writes:
                                >
                                > It may not be illegal to plant plants and trees in public open places we
                                > are
                                > the public
                                >
                                > ************ **Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                                > Guides.
                                > (http://travel. aol.com/travel- guide/united- states?ncid=
                                > aoltrv0003000000 0016)
                                >
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                                >



                                --
                                Matt

                                This is our grace: To be a note
                                In the exact chord that animates creation

                                -- Deena Metzger


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                              • Traveler in Thyme
                                Yes, Matthew! Come live in my neighborhood, we have several neighbors who have given me permission to scape their land if it can be kept natural looking ,
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 12, 2008
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                                  Yes, Matthew! Come live in my neighborhood, we have several neighbors who
                                  have given me permission to 'scape their land if it can be kept "natural
                                  looking", though the job is hopeless unless we thin out the cedar scrub and
                                  the whitetail deer. Our fenced back yard looks like a jungle, but almost
                                  everything in it is useful to us humans, and the rest is useful to birds and
                                  butterflies. Outside the fence, where the deer overgraze, looks like the
                                  moon. Overgrazing causes cedar to take over, which kills everything else,
                                  but slashing and burning the cedar just makes things worse. The mistakes
                                  of the past haunt us here in Central Texas.

                                  Marcia Cash
                                  ~Traveler in Thyme~


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