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Drought Gardening

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  • Traveler in Thyme
    February 25, Central Texas, 80 degrees in the shade and it s barely past noon! Dry as a bone, no rain in sight, the Blanco River has stopped running over the
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 25, 2008
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      February 25, Central Texas, 80 degrees in the shade and it's barely past
      noon! Dry as a bone, no rain in sight, the Blanco River has stopped
      running over the spillway, and my lettuce has bolted and gone to seed from
      the heat before we even got to eat any! All the winter weedlings we like
      to eat --- parsley, cilantro, and other wild greens --- never even sprouted
      except for the one patch of garden I watered heavily back in January. So
      we are buying lettuce at the store and picking at the old parsley before it,
      too, goes to seed, but there hasn't been much colour in our winter cooking
      this year.

      Browsing the selection of spring veggie plants in all the nurseries, it's
      hard not to buy a few 6-paks of Tomatoes or Peppers, but with zero
      precipitation in the forecast, it seems a total waste of our cistern water
      to irrigate a garden that won't thrive in the drought. Even if we do
      spend enough water to make a crop, every bug in the county will zoom over
      here to the only green spot for miles, just to get a snack. Besides,
      plants know the difference between rain and hose water, it's such an uphill
      battle to keep everything healthy in this kind of weather. We are taking
      the opportunity to add as much mulch as we can rake from the forest, and I
      spend a couple hours each week staying ahead of the weeds, but that's all
      the work I'm doing this season besides clearing cedar to help prevent fires.

      So, Traveler in Thyme doesn't have much of a garden this year, except for
      the established perennial herbs and shrubs that don't need any extra
      irrigation. It takes 300 gallons of water to soak our garden patch, and
      that's with a thick layer of mulch, but I don't want to use up all our
      bathing and washing water unless the weatherman can promise us at least 2
      inches of rain per month. And as of today, that doesn't look like it's
      going to happen anythyme soon.

      Thank goodness for Mexican Oregano, Rosemary, and Wild Garlic. We have
      plenty of those, plus a few Marjoram and Thyme plants in the shady parts of
      the garden. Texas Pennyroyal, Lemon Balm, and a couple of Cilantro plants
      are coming up, but only in the shade, though they usually prefer full sun.
      The Chives didn't even freeze back this year, and going strong, while the
      Lavender is already starting to bloom. Verbena are coming up here and
      there, and lots of dandelions, but my taste for those is very limited so we
      don't pick many for the table. And over on the trellis, a few brave
      Kentuck Wonder Green Beans have volunteered from the pods we missed
      harvesting last season. They are and heirloom variety, so breed true to
      type. Last year, we had so many snow peas and green beans we couldn't
      give them away, but I bet we get real stingy with them this year, and pick
      every last one!

      Now, I know it's almost as cheap to buy organic veggies as to grow them, if
      you count your labour as anything, so we have resigned ourselves to stocking
      the freezer and the pantry with store-bought food. Luckily we have enough
      herbs to flavour our Italian and Mexican dishes, and herbs do give you lots
      of trace minerals to keep you healthy. Oregano as a green vegetable? We
      eat a lot of Lemon Balm, in omelettes, stir-fry, and iced tea, so it never
      gets too invasive. And who knew Garlic would grow so rampantly in dry,
      upland soil? I always thought it was a resident of the ditches and
      bottomlands. Ours is hot as fire, small and tough, but one little bulb
      will spice up a whole pot of beans.

      ~~~Recipe of the Week~~~Garlic & Lemon Balm Frittatta (Baked
      Omelette)~~~Serves 6-8, excellent cold leftovers.

      Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Heat a cast iron skillet in the oven.

      Chop one whole bulb Garlic and a big handfull of Lemon Balm. Grate 1/4
      pound Swiss Cheese. Gently beat 6 Eggs with 3 TBS. water (do not overbeat
      or your Frittata will be tough). Add 1/2 tsp. Sea Salt, 1/2 tsp. Paprika,
      1/2 tsp. Ground Sage (or use fresh if you have it). Fold in veggies and
      cheese. Sprinkle lightly with additional Paprika for colour.

      Lightly grease the hot skillet with a small amount of butter. Pour in egg
      mixture, and bake for 35-40 minutes, until lightly brown, do not overcook.
      Center may not be fully set, but turn off the heat and prop open the oven
      door a crack, to let the Frittata set up without burning the bottom.

      Variations: Thaw 1 pound frozen brocolli, and coat it with 1/4 cup flour
      before folding into the egg mixture. The flour keeps the veggies from
      sinking to the bottom of the pan. My sons like crumbled sausage in this
      dish. If you don't have Lemon Balm, use Parsley or Thyme with yummy
      results. Cheddar or Monterrey Jack Cheese works as well as Swiss, if you
      prefer. Eat it warm, or save some for cold leftovers, one of our
      favourite lunches.

      ---Marcia Cash
      Traveler in Thyme
      http://www.travelerinthyme.com





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary Lloyd
      Hi Marcia, Nice post! Wales UK here and the weather is just about turning after the Winter: I can smell the Spring coming, hurray. Yesterday I sowed a row of
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 25, 2008
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        Hi Marcia,
        Nice post! Wales UK here and the weather is just about turning
        after the Winter: I can smell the Spring coming, hurray.
        Yesterday I sowed a row of Parsnip and patched a piece of lawn
        that my dog had made bald. Not much else to do yet but potter. Sowed
        some Butternut Squash on the window ledge, hoping to give them an early
        start. It appeals to me that they store very well in my larder for some
        weeks without deteriorating, so maybe I can get a crop over here this year.
        I lost my lemon balm. You just reminded me of it. Usually it is
        rampant but mine has disappeared over the years, I wonder why.
        Thank you for the frittata recipe. I am always on the look-out
        for recipes that combine vegetables and protein foods, and can be eaten
        next day. I discovered that I do much better healthwise if I avoid
        cereals, so that means most staple carbohydrates in use. They seem to
        give me bloating and indigestion these days and possibly are responsible
        for certain allergic symptoms I have. Ahhh the delights of advancing years!
        What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
        perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
        Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
        Love, Whinnie
        Traveler in Thyme wrote:
        >
        > February 25, Central Texas, 80 degrees in the shade and it's barely past
        > noon! Dry as a bone, no rain in sight, the Blanco River has stopped
        > running over the spillway, and my lettuce has bolted and gone to seed
        > from
        > the heat before we even got to eat any! All the winter weedlings we like
        > to eat --- parsley, cilantro, and other wild greens --- never even
        > sprouted
        > except for the one patch of garden I watered heavily back in January. So
        > we are buying lettuce at the store and picking at the old parsley
        > before it,
        > too, goes to seed, but there hasn't been much colour in our winter
        > cooking
        > this year.
        >
        > Browsing the selection of spring veggie plants in all the nurseries, it's
        > hard not to buy a few 6-paks of Tomatoes or Peppers, but with zero
        > precipitation in the forecast, it seems a total waste of our cistern
        > water
        > to irrigate a garden that won't thrive in the drought. Even if we do
        > spend enough water to make a crop, every bug in the county will zoom over
        > here to the only green spot for miles, just to get a snack. Besides,
        > plants know the difference between rain and hose water, it's such an
        > uphill
        > battle to keep everything healthy in this kind of weather. We are taking
        > the opportunity to add as much mulch as we can rake from the forest,
        > and I
        > spend a couple hours each week staying ahead of the weeds, but that's all
        > the work I'm doing this season besides clearing cedar to help prevent
        > fires.
        >
        > So, Traveler in Thyme doesn't have much of a garden this year, except for
        > the established perennial herbs and shrubs that don't need any extra
        > irrigation. It takes 300 gallons of water to soak our garden patch, and
        > that's with a thick layer of mulch, but I don't want to use up all our
        > bathing and washing water unless the weatherman can promise us at least 2
        > inches of rain per month. And as of today, that doesn't look like it's
        > going to happen anythyme soon.
        >
        > Thank goodness for Mexican Oregano, Rosemary, and Wild Garlic. We have
        > plenty of those, plus a few Marjoram and Thyme plants in the shady
        > parts of
        > the garden. Texas Pennyroyal, Lemon Balm, and a couple of Cilantro plants
        > are coming up, but only in the shade, though they usually prefer full
        > sun.
        > The Chives didn't even freeze back this year, and going strong, while the
        > Lavender is already starting to bloom. Verbena are coming up here and
        > there, and lots of dandelions, but my taste for those is very limited
        > so we
        > don't pick many for the table. And over on the trellis, a few brave
        > Kentuck Wonder Green Beans have volunteered from the pods we missed
        > harvesting last season. They are and heirloom variety, so breed true to
        > type. Last year, we had so many snow peas and green beans we couldn't
        > give them away, but I bet we get real stingy with them this year, and
        > pick
        > every last one!
        >
        > Now, I know it's almost as cheap to buy organic veggies as to grow
        > them, if
        > you count your labour as anything, so we have resigned ourselves to
        > stocking
        > the freezer and the pantry with store-bought food. Luckily we have enough
        > herbs to flavour our Italian and Mexican dishes, and herbs do give you
        > lots
        > of trace minerals to keep you healthy. Oregano as a green vegetable? We
        > eat a lot of Lemon Balm, in omelettes, stir-fry, and iced tea, so it
        > never
        > gets too invasive. And who knew Garlic would grow so rampantly in dry,
        > upland soil? I always thought it was a resident of the ditches and
        > bottomlands. Ours is hot as fire, small and tough, but one little bulb
        > will spice up a whole pot of beans.
        >
        > ~~~Recipe of the Week~~~Garlic & Lemon Balm Frittatta (Baked
        > Omelette)~~~Serves 6-8, excellent cold leftovers.
        >
        > Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Heat a cast iron skillet in the oven.
        >
        > Chop one whole bulb Garlic and a big handfull of Lemon Balm. Grate 1/4
        > pound Swiss Cheese. Gently beat 6 Eggs with 3 TBS. water (do not overbeat
        > or your Frittata will be tough). Add 1/2 tsp. Sea Salt, 1/2 tsp. Paprika,
        > 1/2 tsp. Ground Sage (or use fresh if you have it). Fold in veggies and
        > cheese. Sprinkle lightly with additional Paprika for colour.
        >
        > Lightly grease the hot skillet with a small amount of butter. Pour in egg
        > mixture, and bake for 35-40 minutes, until lightly brown, do not
        > overcook.
        > Center may not be fully set, but turn off the heat and prop open the oven
        > door a crack, to let the Frittata set up without burning the bottom.
        >
        > Variations: Thaw 1 pound frozen brocolli, and coat it with 1/4 cup flour
        > before folding into the egg mixture. The flour keeps the veggies from
        > sinking to the bottom of the pan. My sons like crumbled sausage in this
        > dish. If you don't have Lemon Balm, use Parsley or Thyme with yummy
        > results. Cheddar or Monterrey Jack Cheese works as well as Swiss, if you
        > prefer. Eat it warm, or save some for cold leftovers, one of our
        > favourite lunches.
        >
        > ---Marcia Cash
        > Traveler in Thyme
        > http://www.travelerinthyme.com <http://www.travelerinthyme.com>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • Julie Bruton-Seal
        How about artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there s edible weeds like
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 26, 2008
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          How about artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
          (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
          edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
          primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
          Julie
          On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
          >
          > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
          > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
          > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
          > Love, Whinnie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dave
          My website: www.perennialveg.org.uk should give you a good idea of what s available and will grow in a temperate climate. Please bear in mind that it s a
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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            My website: www.perennialveg.org.uk should give you a good idea of what's available and will grow in a temperate climate. Please bear in mind that it's a work in progress and is updated as I find time to do so.

            Dave

            Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...> wrote:
            How about artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
            (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
            edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
            primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
            Julie
            On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
            >
            > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
            > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
            > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
            > Love, Whinnie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Porter
            If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you, --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter Julie Bruton-Seal
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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              If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you, --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter

              Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...> wrote: How about artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
              (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
              edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
              primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
              Julie
              On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
              >
              > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
              > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
              > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
              > Love, Whinnie

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Allmende Verden
              There is a book, I have not read, but which is very promising. It s Perennial Vegetables by Eric Toensmeier, who co-authored the famous Edible Forest
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                There is a book, I have not read, but which is very promising. It's
                "Perennial Vegetables" by Eric Toensmeier, who co-authored the famous
                "Edible Forest Gardens" book. See
                http://www.chelseagreen.com/2007/items/perennialvegetables for
                detailed information.

                A personal recommendation is Malva moschata. Its leaves and flowers
                make a really tasty salat (
                http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Malva+moschata ).

                Ethan Roland of Appleseed Permaculture advocates what he calls the
                Perennial Three sisters: Sunchoke (Helianthus tuberosus), Groundnut
                (Apios americana) and Mintroot (Stachys officinalis). It's a three
                layer growing system. Sunchoke grows straight to the top, Groundnut
                climbs up the Sunchoke shafts and Mintroot covers the ground.

                Regards, Boris

                Zitat von Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...>:

                > If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you,
                > --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter
                >
                > Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...> wrote: How about
                > artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
                > (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
                > edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
                > primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
                > Julie
                > On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
                >>
                >> What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
                >> perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
                >> Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
                >> Love, Whinnie


                Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                Artilleriestr. 6
                D-27283 Verden
                Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                http://www.allmende.de.vu
                Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
              • Pat Meadows
                ... I ve read it, in fact I bought it. It is a terrific book, very very helpful. I bought it on Amazon, where it is significantly cheaper. Pat -- Northern
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                  On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:50:25 +0100, you wrote:

                  >There is a book, I have not read, but which is very promising. It's
                  >"Perennial Vegetables" by Eric Toensmeier, who co-authored the famous
                  >"Edible Forest Gardens" book. See
                  >http://www.chelseagreen.com/2007/items/perennialvegetables for
                  >detailed information.

                  I've read it, in fact I bought it. It is a terrific book, very very
                  helpful.

                  I bought it on Amazon, where it is significantly cheaper.

                  Pat
                  -- Northern Pennsylvania
                  http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/
                  'Every one of us can do something to protect and care for our planet.
                  We should live in such a way that makes a future possible.'
                  - Thich Nhat Hanh
                • Teeter
                  http://www.agroforestry.net/pubs/perennial_vegetables.html http://garden.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Perennial_Foods These two links should get you a good perennial
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                    http://www.agroforestry.net/pubs/perennial_vegetables.html
                    http://garden.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Perennial_Foods

                    These two links should get you a good perennial garden going.





                    On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pat Meadows <pat@...> wrote:

                    > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:50:25 +0100, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >There is a book, I have not read, but which is very promising. It's
                    > >"Perennial Vegetables" by Eric Toensmeier, who co-authored the famous
                    > >"Edible Forest Gardens" book. See
                    > >http://www.chelseagreen.com/2007/items/perennialvegetables for
                    > >detailed information.
                    >
                    > I've read it, in fact I bought it. It is a terrific book, very very
                    > helpful.
                    >
                    > I bought it on Amazon, where it is significantly cheaper.
                    >
                    > Pat
                    > -- Northern Pennsylvania
                    > http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/
                    > 'Every one of us can do something to protect and care for our planet.
                    > We should live in such a way that makes a future possible.'
                    > - Thich Nhat Hanh
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                    I didn t know primrose was edible, it is not edible for cats or dogs. In a message dated 2/28/2008 3:23:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                      I didn't know primrose was edible, it is not edible for cats or dogs.


                      In a message dated 2/28/2008 3:23:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                      michaels4gardens@... writes:

                      Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
                      edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
                      primrose.




                      **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                      (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                      2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Pat Meadows
                      ... Beware the common name trap : your primrose may not be the same at all as someone else s primrose. Pat -- Northern Pennsylvania
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                        On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:24:15 EST, you wrote:

                        >I didn't know primrose was edible, it is not edible for cats or dogs.
                        >
                        Beware the 'common name trap': your primrose may not be the same at all as
                        someone else's primrose.

                        Pat
                        -- Northern Pennsylvania
                        http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/
                        'Every one of us can do something to protect and care for our planet.
                        We should live in such a way that makes a future possible.'
                        - Thich Nhat Hanh
                      • Mary Lloyd
                        Hi and thanks Michael and Julie... I am in Wales UK. Lots of rain and milder winters than in the E. of Britain. I didn t realize Good King Henry was a
                        Message 11 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                          Hi and thanks Michael and Julie...
                          I am in Wales UK. Lots of rain and milder winters than in the E. of
                          Britain.
                          I didn't realize Good King Henry was a perennial. Artichokes, great! Is
                          the globe type easy to grow? I have grown the jerusalem ones: they are
                          pretty and I like the taste of the tubers. However they do have that
                          particular side effect, you know the one I mean......(smile)
                          Love, Whinnie
                          Michael Porter wrote:
                          >
                          > If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you,
                          > --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter
                          >
                          > Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...
                          > <mailto:herbalist%40onetel.com>> wrote: How about artichokes? Both
                          > globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
                          > (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
                          > edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
                          > primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
                          > Julie
                          > On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
                          > >
                          > > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
                          > > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
                          > > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
                          > > Love, Whinnie
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Infowolf1@aol.com
                          so what is the latin name on the edible ones? link to pix? Mary Christine In a message dated 2/28/2008 10:07:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ... Beware the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                            so what is the latin name on the edible ones? link to pix?

                            Mary Christine


                            In a message dated 2/28/2008 10:07:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                            pat@... writes:

                            >I didn't know primrose was edible, it is not edible for cats or dogs.
                            >
                            Beware the 'common name trap': your primrose may not be the same at all as
                            someone else's primrose.

                            Pat
                            -- Northern Pennsylvania





                            **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                            (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                            2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • stephen barstow
                            I posted the following on another forum recently. The list below covers (mostly) salad plants, I use a number of other plants cooked. Hope it is of some
                            Message 13 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                              I posted the following on another forum recently. The list below covers
                              (mostly) salad plants, I use a number of other plants cooked. Hope it is of
                              some interest�.

                              ----------------------------

                              Having been inspired some years ago by just how good perennial vegetables
                              can be through a Norwegian Society called the Useful Plants Society
                              (Nyttevekstforeningen), in particular some of the wild herbs which grow in
                              the wild and on the perimeters of my cultivated gardens - examples are
                              Ground Elder (Aegopodium podagraria) and Nettle (Urtica dioica) - I have
                              systematically collected and experimented with perennial vegetables suited
                              to my relatively cold climate here in mid-Norway (64.5N, with a minimum
                              temperature of about -23C) for the last 20-years. In fact I probably now
                              harvest more perennial green vegetables than cultivated.

                              Perennial greens complement traditional greens as they are at their peak in
                              the spring time when little else is available, they are easy to grow needing
                              little maintenance (more important as one gets older ), pests aren�t a big
                              problem either in the springtime, and despite the fact that there aren�t
                              many perennial veggies that have been improved relative to their wild
                              relatives (most of them are effectively wild plants), yields from some of
                              them can be comparable to traditional veggies (my best and highest yielding
                              spinach plants are wild plants, in particular Caucasian Spinach, see below).
                              Although perennials peak in springtime, some are useful the whole summer
                              (e.g., Malva moschata, which is perennial here - needs a dry location to be
                              perennial I think) or can be cut down repeatedly to harvest the new growth.

                              We regularly use plants from some 50 botanical families in springtime and
                              probably around 150-200 species, all perennials. First of all there is
                              nothing comparable to lettuce in what perennials can offer and, in my
                              opinion, perennial salads are best as mixed salads. A plain dandelion or
                              chicory (biannual, I know) salad would be too much (strong, bitter), but
                              mixed with a selection of other herbs can be very tasty (multiple taste
                              sensations).

                              I�ve made a list below of some of my favourite spring perennial salad
                              vegetables:

                              Aegopodium podagraria, Ground Elder (feared weed - I use this one regularly
                              in springtime, the young light green leaves are best for salads)


                              Agastache spp. (most are perennial and a little adds a pleasant sweet
                              licorice taste)

                              Allium spp. (there are hundreds of species to choose from and many are in my
                              opinion are better than Chives; Try growing hardneck Garlic as a perennial
                              in a part of the garden and you can use the young shoots early every spring)

                              Aralia spp. (I�ve only used the Japanese Aralia cordata or Udo so far �
                              excellent and very productive, it needs to be blanched before use � cover
                              with a very large bucket as the shoots can be 1m when harvested)

                              Armoracia (Horseradish) � young spring shoots in moderation (can also be
                              blanched)

                              Barbarea vulgaris (Common Wintercress) - early spring leaves

                              Campanula latifolia, Giant Bellflower (and other Campanulas) - there�s a
                              long tradition of using this one here in Norway in spring soups

                              Carum carvi, Caraway (although a biennial, when grown in the same place it
                              self-seeds and appears as a perennial); young spring shoots.

                              Chrysanthemum vulgare � excellent in salads

                              Diplotaxis spp. (Perennial Rockets) - although perennial they seem to be
                              short-lived although that could be my climate. Are sometimes grown and sold
                              in supermarkets as rocket (Arugula)



                              Hablitzia tamnoides (Caucasian Spinach) - this is in my experience probably
                              the most underrated (or rather unknown) edible in the temperate world - a
                              fantastic productive spring spinach and salad plant. Read my article in
                              Permaculture Magazine here:
                              HYPERLINK
                              "http://www.hagegal.info/innlegg/media-diverse-store-filer/media-stephen-h.p
                              hp" \nhttp://www.hagegal.info/innlegg/medi...-stephen-h.php
                              (I would love to offer this one but unlike its close relatives (Chenopodium
                              spp.) it only produces a few seed).

                              Humulus lupulus (Hops) - very young spring shoots before they get too
                              fibrous

                              Hydrophyllum spp. (Indian Salad) - I tried this for the first time (H.
                              virginianum, I think) and was impressed.

                              Malva moschata (Musk Mallow) - comes in white and pink flowered forms. This
                              is reliably perennial with me (needs a dry spot). I use this from early
                              spring to late summer (young leaves, fruits and flowers).

                              Matteuccia struthiopteris (Ostrich Fern) � Excellent spring fiddleheads for
                              the woodland garden.

                              Mentha, Melissa, Pycnanthemum, Osmorhiza and other aromatics

                              Oxyria digyna (Mountain Sorrel)

                              Rumex spp. (R. scutatus and R. acetosa) are excellent and productive

                              Scorzonera (and the mostly biennial Tragopogons) - excellent spring greens,
                              flower buds and petals can all be used in salad.

                              Taraxacum spp. (I have a collection of over 10 species, including
                              red-leaved, pink and white flowered, French cultivars etc.)

                              Tilia cordata (Small-leaved lime)

                              There are many more...can�t wait for spring...

                              Sorry for the length of this but I really feel that Perennials are grossly
                              underused and probably as healthy as food comes...



                              Stephen, Norway




                              No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 27.02.2008
                              16:34



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Travis Philp
                              Grapes (the leaves are tasty too!) Perennial Arugula aka sylvetta New Zealand Spinach Perennial Kale(Brassica oleracea L. var. ramosa) Sorrel Eastern
                              Message 14 of 22 , Feb 28, 2008
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                                Grapes (the leaves are tasty too!)
                                Perennial Arugula aka sylvetta
                                New Zealand Spinach
                                Perennial Kale(Brassica oleracea L. var. ramosa)
                                Sorrel
                                Eastern Cottonwood (tree with edible leaves high in protein-very fast growing)
                                Comfrey (new leaves only-some people say they're toxic to the liver in high amounts, others, even my petersons wild edibles field guide says that its safe to eat)


                                ...hmmm I'm drawing a blank now.
                                Thats all I can come up with


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...>
                                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:22:39 -0800 (PST)
                                Subject: Re: [pfaf] perennial vegetables

                                If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you, --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter

                                Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...> wrote: How about artichokes? Both globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
                                (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
                                edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
                                primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
                                Julie
                                On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
                                >
                                > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
                                > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
                                > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
                                > Love, Whinnie

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Mary Lloyd
                                Hi Stephen, Boris and all, Really useful responses, thank you very much. I am looking for a copy of that book Boris and looking up all the plants Stephen
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 29, 2008
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                                  Hi Stephen, Boris and all,
                                  Really useful responses, thank you very much. I am looking for a copy of
                                  that book Boris and looking up all the plants Stephen listed below to
                                  see what grows near me or what I can get hold of to grow myself.
                                  There must be perennial plants that fall into all the recognized
                                  categories of vegetables: salads and greens, fruiting vegetables,
                                  shoots, stems, seeds, beans, peas, roots, tubers, fungi and flowers etc.
                                  I would love to have my garden full of them so I can just wander and
                                  pick whatever is in season.
                                  Are Bamboo shoots you get in Chinese restaurants real shoots of Bamboo?
                                  That grows like mad over here and it is a job to get rid of if anything.
                                  I can see this is going to turn into a real project.
                                  Thanks again
                                  Love, Whinnie

                                  stephen barstow wrote:
                                  > I posted the following on another forum recently. The list below covers
                                  > (mostly) salad plants, I use a number of other plants cooked. Hope it is of
                                  > some interest….
                                  >
                                  > ----------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Having been inspired some years ago by just how good perennial vegetables
                                  > can be through a Norwegian Society called the Useful Plants Society
                                  > (Nyttevekstforeningen), in particular some of the wild herbs which grow in
                                  > the wild and on the perimeters of my cultivated gardens - examples are
                                  > Ground Elder (Aegopodium podagraria) and Nettle (Urtica dioica) - I have
                                  > systematically collected and experimented with perennial vegetables suited
                                  > to my relatively cold climate here in mid-Norway (64.5N, with a minimum
                                  > temperature of about -23C) for the last 20-years. In fact I probably now
                                  > harvest more perennial green vegetables than cultivated.
                                  >
                                  > Perennial greens complement traditional greens as they are at their peak in
                                  > the spring time when little else is available, they are easy to grow needing
                                  > little maintenance (more important as one gets older ), pests aren’t a big
                                  > problem either in the springtime, and despite the fact that there aren’t
                                  > many perennial veggies that have been improved relative to their wild
                                  > relatives (most of them are effectively wild plants), yields from some of
                                  > them can be comparable to traditional veggies (my best and highest yielding
                                  > spinach plants are wild plants, in particular Caucasian Spinach, see below).
                                  > Although perennials peak in springtime, some are useful the whole summer
                                  > (e.g., Malva moschata, which is perennial here - needs a dry location to be
                                  > perennial I think) or can be cut down repeatedly to harvest the new growth.
                                  >
                                  > We regularly use plants from some 50 botanical families in springtime and
                                  > probably around 150-200 species, all perennials. First of all there is
                                  > nothing comparable to lettuce in what perennials can offer and, in my
                                  > opinion, perennial salads are best as mixed salads. A plain dandelion or
                                  > chicory (biannual, I know) salad would be too much (strong, bitter), but
                                  > mixed with a selection of other herbs can be very tasty (multiple taste
                                  > sensations).
                                  >
                                  > I’ve made a list below of some of my favourite spring perennial salad
                                  > vegetables:
                                  >
                                  > Aegopodium podagraria, Ground Elder (feared weed - I use this one regularly
                                  > in springtime, the young light green leaves are best for salads)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Agastache spp. (most are perennial and a little adds a pleasant sweet
                                  > licorice taste)
                                  >
                                  > Allium spp. (there are hundreds of species to choose from and many are in my
                                  > opinion are better than Chives; Try growing hardneck Garlic as a perennial
                                  > in a part of the garden and you can use the young shoots early every spring)
                                  >
                                  > Aralia spp. (I’ve only used the Japanese Aralia cordata or Udo so far –
                                  > excellent and very productive, it needs to be blanched before use – cover
                                  > with a very large bucket as the shoots can be 1m when harvested)
                                  >
                                  > Armoracia (Horseradish) – young spring shoots in moderation (can also be
                                  > blanched)
                                  >
                                  > Barbarea vulgaris (Common Wintercress) - early spring leaves
                                  >
                                  > Campanula latifolia, Giant Bellflower (and other Campanulas) - there’s a
                                  > long tradition of using this one here in Norway in spring soups
                                  >
                                  > Carum carvi, Caraway (although a biennial, when grown in the same place it
                                  > self-seeds and appears as a perennial); young spring shoots.
                                  >
                                  > Chrysanthemum vulgare – excellent in salads
                                  >
                                  > Diplotaxis spp. (Perennial Rockets) - although perennial they seem to be
                                  > short-lived although that could be my climate. Are sometimes grown and sold
                                  > in supermarkets as rocket (Arugula)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hablitzia tamnoides (Caucasian Spinach) - this is in my experience probably
                                  > the most underrated (or rather unknown) edible in the temperate world - a
                                  > fantastic productive spring spinach and salad plant. Read my article in
                                  > Permaculture Magazine here:
                                  > HYPERLINK
                                  > "http://www.hagegal.info/innlegg/media-diverse-store-filer/media-stephen-h.p
                                  > hp" \nhttp://www.hagegal.info/innlegg/medi...-stephen-h.php
                                  > (I would love to offer this one but unlike its close relatives (Chenopodium
                                  > spp.) it only produces a few seed).
                                  >
                                  > Humulus lupulus (Hops) - very young spring shoots before they get too
                                  > fibrous
                                  >
                                  > Hydrophyllum spp. (Indian Salad) - I tried this for the first time (H.
                                  > virginianum, I think) and was impressed.
                                  >
                                  > Malva moschata (Musk Mallow) - comes in white and pink flowered forms. This
                                  > is reliably perennial with me (needs a dry spot). I use this from early
                                  > spring to late summer (young leaves, fruits and flowers).
                                  >
                                  > Matteuccia struthiopteris (Ostrich Fern) – Excellent spring fiddleheads for
                                  > the woodland garden.
                                  >
                                  > Mentha, Melissa, Pycnanthemum, Osmorhiza and other aromatics
                                  >
                                  > Oxyria digyna (Mountain Sorrel)
                                  >
                                  > Rumex spp. (R. scutatus and R. acetosa) are excellent and productive
                                  >
                                  > Scorzonera (and the mostly biennial Tragopogons) - excellent spring greens,
                                  > flower buds and petals can all be used in salad.
                                  >
                                  > Taraxacum spp. (I have a collection of over 10 species, including
                                  > red-leaved, pink and white flowered, French cultivars etc.)
                                  >
                                  > Tilia cordata (Small-leaved lime)
                                  >
                                  > There are many more...can’t wait for spring...
                                  >
                                  > Sorry for the length of this but I really feel that Perennials are grossly
                                  > underused and probably as healthy as food comes...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Stephen, Norway
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                  > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 27.02.2008
                                  > 16:34
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Michael Porter
                                  On the Daves Garden web site, --you may be able to find Baa , she is in the UK and very knowledgeable - and probly some others also, --Michael Mary Lloyd
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 1 10:02 AM
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                                    On the Daves Garden web site, --you may be able to find Baa , she is in the UK and very knowledgeable - and probly some others also, --Michael

                                    Mary Lloyd <mary@...> wrote: Hi and thanks Michael and Julie...
                                    I am in Wales UK. Lots of rain and milder winters than in the E. of
                                    Britain.
                                    I didn't realize Good King Henry was a perennial. Artichokes, great! Is
                                    the globe type easy to grow? I have grown the jerusalem ones: they are
                                    pretty and I like the taste of the tubers. However they do have that
                                    particular side effect, you know the one I mean......(smile)
                                    Love, Whinnie
                                    Michael Porter wrote:
                                    >
                                    > If you live far enough south I would have some sugestions for you,
                                    > --what Zone do you garden in? Michael Porter
                                    >
                                    > Julie Bruton-Seal <herbalist@...
                                    > <mailto:herbalist%40onetel.com>> wrote: How about artichokes? Both
                                    > globe and Jerusalem. And rhubarb, oca
                                    > (Oxalis tuberosa), Good King Henry, and salad burnet. Then there's
                                    > edible 'weeds' like dandelion and nettles, and other salad plants like
                                    > primrose. I'm sure there're lots more too.
                                    > Julie
                                    > On 25 Feb 2008, at 21:03, Mary Lloyd wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > What I would like to grow in my garden is a collection of
                                    > > perennial vegetables. All I can think of so far are Asparagus and
                                    > > Seakale. If anyone has info about others, please pass it on.
                                    > > Love, Whinnie
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                    is it big bamboo or the little skinny ones? There is more than one bamboo species, you might want to find out about edibility of all of them. In a message
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 1 11:59 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      is it big bamboo or the little skinny ones? There is more than one
                                      bamboo species, you might want to find out about edibility of all
                                      of them.


                                      In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                      mary@... writes:

                                      Are Bamboo shoots you get in Chinese restaurants real shoots of Bamboo?
                                      That grows like mad over here and it is a job to get rid of if anything.
                                      I can see this is going to turn into a real project.





                                      **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                                      (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                                      2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                      diarrhea or aphrodisiac? In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mary@latter-rain.com writes: I have grown the jerusalem ones: they
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 1 11:59 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        diarrhea or aphrodisiac?


                                        In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                        mary@... writes:

                                        I have grown the jerusalem ones: they are
                                        pretty and I like the taste of the tubers. However they do have that
                                        particular side effect, you know the one I mean......(smile)





                                        **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                                        (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                                        2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • edibleforests
                                        hello all, i m new to the group but have been a follower of pfaf for many years... just wanted to chime in... for a great resource on perennial vegetables i
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 1 12:55 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          hello all,

                                          i'm new to the group but have been a follower of pfaf for many
                                          years... just wanted to chime in... for a great resource on perennial
                                          vegetables i highly recommend reading the book Perennial Vegetables by
                                          Eric Toensmeier. Check it out of your local library or order it from
                                          the publisher. have fun reading... if you would like to check out a
                                          Toensmeier co-created project go to www.communitysupportedforestry.com

                                          be well,
                                          jonathan
                                        • Michael Porter
                                          Gas Infowolf1@aol.com wrote: diarrhea or aphrodisiac? In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mary@latter-rain.com writes: I
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 1 3:21 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Gas

                                            Infowolf1@... wrote: diarrhea or aphrodisiac?


                                            In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                            mary@... writes:

                                            I have grown the jerusalem ones: they are
                                            pretty and I like the taste of the tubers. However they do have that
                                            particular side effect, you know the one I mean......(smile)

                                            **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                                            (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                                            2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Mary Lloyd
                                            Yep, thats the one...GAS. I hadn t heard Jerusalem artichokes were aphrodisiac, could be a musical experience! hehe
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Mar 2 12:31 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Yep, thats the one...GAS. I hadn't heard Jerusalem artichokes were
                                              aphrodisiac, could be a musical experience! hehe
                                              Michael Porter wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Gas
                                              >
                                              > Infowolf1@... <mailto:Infowolf1%40aol.com> wrote: diarrhea or
                                              > aphrodisiac?
                                              >
                                              > In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                              > mary@... <mailto:mary%40latter-rain.com> writes:
                                              >
                                              > I have grown the jerusalem ones: they are
                                              > pretty and I like the taste of the tubers. However they do have that
                                              > particular side effect, you know the one I mean......(smile)
                                              >
                                              > **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                                              > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                                              > <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/>
                                              > 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Clinton McDowell
                                              Hello, ALL bamboo shoots are edible ...tho some are far tastier than others. generally they are boiled twice(throw out the boiled water each time). that
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Mar 2 2:19 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hello,
                                                ALL bamboo shoots are edible ...tho some are far tastier than others. generally they are boiled twice(throw out the boiled water each time). that boiling process gets rid of some of the bitter taste. None-the-less bamboo shoots ARE considered bitter in the chinese way of looking at food. Write me personally if you are more interested in specifis shoots.
                                                The most common shoots from china are ¨Moso¨(Phyllostachys pubescens) also good are Ph. dulcis,Ph. aurea,Dendrocalamus asper, Bambusa oldhamii a certain cultivar w/a ¨weeping¨grass like habit as opposed to the more common very straight species.

                                                Infowolf1@... escribió:
                                                is it big bamboo or the little skinny ones? There is more than one
                                                bamboo species, you might want to find out about edibility of all
                                                of them.


                                                In a message dated 3/1/2008 7:14:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                mary@... writes:

                                                Are Bamboo shoots you get in Chinese restaurants real shoots of Bamboo?
                                                That grows like mad over here and it is a job to get rid of if anything.
                                                I can see this is going to turn into a real project.

                                                **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
                                                (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
                                                2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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