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[pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under - allelopathy

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  • vic_doyle
    Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other plants. A Black Walnut
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 6, 2008
      Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
      of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
      plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
      can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
      rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
      gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
      other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
      Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.


      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
      >
      > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
      that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
      wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
      american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
      Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
      black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
      couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
      and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
      sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
      other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
      walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
      get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
      >
      > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
      my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
      plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
      presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
      the other plants:
      >
      > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
      > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
      > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
      > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
      > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
      > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
      > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
      > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
      > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
      > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
      > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
      > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
      > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
      > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
      > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
      > Catnip - Nepata cataria
      > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
      > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
      > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
      > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
      >
      > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
      black
      > walnut (European not so bad).
      >
      > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
      or
      > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
      > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
      but
      > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
      want
      > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
      tried
      > asparagus!
      >
      > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
      > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
      of
      > the crop would be given as compensation.
      >
      > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
      salted
      > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
      then
      > bottled.
      >
      > Griselda
      >
      >
      > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
      >
      > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
      > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
      almost
      > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
      perhaps
      > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
      > >
      > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
      naturally
      > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
      juglone
      > > tolerant. Here you go:
      > > >
      > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
      > > February/021522.html
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
      > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
      > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
      > > >
      > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
      under
      > > or
      > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
      don't
      > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Gloria Alexander
      Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60 . I also had one come
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 7, 2008
        Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60'. I also had one come up next to my veg garden couple years ago and need to remove it due to shading the garden, but my lima beans, herbs, a volunteer squash vine (which did tooooooooo well for me) collards did fine. These are within 50' or less from my black walnut trees.Know there is medicinal use for parasites with blackwalnut leaves etc. Just thought you might like to know that.

        vic_doyle <vic_doyle@...> wrote: Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
        of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
        plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
        can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
        rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
        gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
        other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
        Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.

        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
        >
        > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
        that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
        wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
        american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
        Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
        black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
        couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
        and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
        sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
        other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
        walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
        get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
        >
        > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
        my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
        plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
        presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
        the other plants:
        >
        > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
        > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
        > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
        > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
        > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
        > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
        > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
        > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
        > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
        > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
        > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
        > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
        > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
        > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
        > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
        > Catnip - Nepata cataria
        > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
        > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
        > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
        >
        > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
        black
        > walnut (European not so bad).
        >
        > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
        or
        > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
        > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
        but
        > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
        want
        > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
        tried
        > asparagus!
        >
        > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
        > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
        of
        > the crop would be given as compensation.
        >
        > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
        salted
        > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
        then
        > bottled.
        >
        > Griselda
        >
        >
        > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
        >
        > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
        > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
        almost
        > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
        perhaps
        > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
        > >
        > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
        naturally
        > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
        juglone
        > > tolerant. Here you go:
        > > >
        > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
        > > February/021522.html
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
        > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
        > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
        > > >
        > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
        under
        > > or
        > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
        don't
        > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






        Gloria Hartis-Alexander
        Believing God
        www.marykay.com/truthgha
        MaryKay Shopping24/7




































        ---------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • omoak108
        What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling). ... that nothing can compete with or grow near
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 10, 2008
          What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing
          shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling).

          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
          >
          > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
          that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
          wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
          american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
          Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and black
          raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I couldn't
          identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade and the
          juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that sometimes
          had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of other plants.
          Could it be that the ground cover underneath the walnuts could be the
          major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to get established in say,
          a tallgrass situation.
          >
          > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
          my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
          plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the presence
          of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted the other
          plants:
          >
          > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
          > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
          > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
          > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
          > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
          > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
          > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
          > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
          > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
          > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
          > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
          > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
          > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
          > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
          > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
          > Catnip - Nepata cataria
          > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
          > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
          > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
          > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
          >
          > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
          > walnut (European not so bad).
          >
          > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
          > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
          > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
          > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
          > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
          > asparagus!
          >
          > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
          > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
          > the crop would be given as compensation.
          >
          > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
          > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
          > bottled.
          >
          > Griselda
          >
          >
          > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
          >
          > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
          > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
          almost
          > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
          > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
          > >
          > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
          > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
          > > tolerant. Here you go:
          > > >
          > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
          > > February/021522.html
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
          > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
          > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
          > > >
          > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
          > > or
          > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
          don't
          > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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