Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under

Expand Messages
  • Travis Philp
    Maybe this is a regional issue but I don t see how anyone can say that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen wild polycultures with
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 5 7:47 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season. Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to get established in say, a tallgrass situation.

      I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted the other plants:

      American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
      European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
      Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
      American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
      Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
      Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
      Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
      Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
      Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
      Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
      Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
      Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
      Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
      "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
      Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
      Catnip - Nepata cataria
      Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
      Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
      Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under

      I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
      walnut (European not so bad).

      The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
      poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
      managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
      nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
      to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
      asparagus!

      Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
      this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
      the crop would be given as compensation.

      Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
      in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
      bottled.

      Griselda


      On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:

      > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
      > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost
      > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
      > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
      >
      > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
      > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
      > tolerant. Here you go:
      > >
      > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
      > February/021522.html
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@...>
      > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
      > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
      > >
      > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
      > or
      > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and don't
      > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
      > >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • vic_doyle
      Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other plants. A Black Walnut
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 6 3:16 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
        of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
        plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
        can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
        rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
        gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
        other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
        Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.


        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
        >
        > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
        that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
        wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
        american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
        Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
        black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
        couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
        and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
        sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
        other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
        walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
        get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
        >
        > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
        my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
        plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
        presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
        the other plants:
        >
        > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
        > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
        > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
        > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
        > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
        > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
        > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
        > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
        > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
        > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
        > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
        > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
        > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
        > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
        > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
        > Catnip - Nepata cataria
        > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
        > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
        > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
        > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
        >
        > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
        black
        > walnut (European not so bad).
        >
        > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
        or
        > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
        > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
        but
        > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
        want
        > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
        tried
        > asparagus!
        >
        > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
        > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
        of
        > the crop would be given as compensation.
        >
        > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
        salted
        > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
        then
        > bottled.
        >
        > Griselda
        >
        >
        > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
        >
        > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
        > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
        almost
        > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
        perhaps
        > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
        > >
        > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
        naturally
        > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
        juglone
        > > tolerant. Here you go:
        > > >
        > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
        > > February/021522.html
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
        > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
        > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
        > > >
        > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
        under
        > > or
        > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
        don't
        > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Gloria Alexander
        Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60 . I also had one come
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7 5:24 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60'. I also had one come up next to my veg garden couple years ago and need to remove it due to shading the garden, but my lima beans, herbs, a volunteer squash vine (which did tooooooooo well for me) collards did fine. These are within 50' or less from my black walnut trees.Know there is medicinal use for parasites with blackwalnut leaves etc. Just thought you might like to know that.

          vic_doyle <vic_doyle@...> wrote: Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
          of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
          plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
          can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
          rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
          gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
          other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
          Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.

          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
          >
          > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
          that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
          wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
          american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
          Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
          black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
          couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
          and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
          sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
          other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
          walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
          get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
          >
          > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
          my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
          plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
          presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
          the other plants:
          >
          > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
          > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
          > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
          > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
          > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
          > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
          > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
          > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
          > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
          > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
          > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
          > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
          > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
          > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
          > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
          > Catnip - Nepata cataria
          > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
          > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
          > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
          > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
          >
          > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
          black
          > walnut (European not so bad).
          >
          > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
          or
          > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
          > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
          but
          > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
          want
          > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
          tried
          > asparagus!
          >
          > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
          > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
          of
          > the crop would be given as compensation.
          >
          > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
          salted
          > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
          then
          > bottled.
          >
          > Griselda
          >
          >
          > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
          >
          > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
          > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
          almost
          > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
          perhaps
          > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
          > >
          > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
          naturally
          > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
          juglone
          > > tolerant. Here you go:
          > > >
          > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
          > > February/021522.html
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
          > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
          > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
          > > >
          > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
          under
          > > or
          > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
          don't
          > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          Gloria Hartis-Alexander
          Believing God
          www.marykay.com/truthgha
          MaryKay Shopping24/7




































          ---------------------------------
          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • omoak108
          What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling). ... that nothing can compete with or grow near
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 10 11:47 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing
            shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling).

            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
            >
            > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
            that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
            wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
            american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
            Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and black
            raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I couldn't
            identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade and the
            juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that sometimes
            had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of other plants.
            Could it be that the ground cover underneath the walnuts could be the
            major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to get established in say,
            a tallgrass situation.
            >
            > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
            my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
            plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the presence
            of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted the other
            plants:
            >
            > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
            > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
            > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
            > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
            > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
            > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
            > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
            > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
            > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
            > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
            > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
            > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
            > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
            > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
            > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
            > Catnip - Nepata cataria
            > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
            > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
            > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
            > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
            >
            > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
            > walnut (European not so bad).
            >
            > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
            > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
            > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
            > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
            > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
            > asparagus!
            >
            > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
            > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
            > the crop would be given as compensation.
            >
            > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
            > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
            > bottled.
            >
            > Griselda
            >
            >
            > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
            >
            > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
            > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
            almost
            > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
            > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
            > >
            > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
            > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
            > > tolerant. Here you go:
            > > >
            > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
            > > February/021522.html
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
            > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
            > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
            > > >
            > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
            > > or
            > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
            don't
            > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.