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Re: black walnut trees - growing under

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  • vic_doyle
    I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost impossible to grow
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
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      I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
      terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost
      impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
      asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.

      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
      >
      > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
      occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
      tolerant. Here you go:
      >
      > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
      February/021522.html
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@...>
      > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
      > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
      >
      > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under or
      > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and don't
      > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
      >
    • Griselda Mussett
      I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black walnut (European not so bad). The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them -
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
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        I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
        walnut (European not so bad).

        The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
        poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
        managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
        nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
        to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
        asparagus!

        Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
        this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
        the crop would be given as compensation.

        Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
        in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
        bottled.

        Griselda


        On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:

        > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
        > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost
        > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
        > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
        >
        > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
        > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
        > tolerant. Here you go:
        > >
        > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
        > February/021522.html
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@...>
        > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
        > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
        > >
        > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
        > or
        > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and don't
        > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
        > >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Travis Philp
        I would have to disagree with the notion that it is almost impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them . I have seen a great variety of plants grow
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I would have to disagree with the notion that "it is almost
          impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them".
          I have seen a great variety of plants grow amongst mature and sapling black walnut trees. Yes, the juglone toxin that Walnuts release does limit what species you can use in a walnut polyculture but as many on this pfaf list may already know, and as the link I have provided will show, there are still a lot of options. I just realized that the link I sent before was not the full web address. My apologies, here is the link:

          http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-February/021522.html


          -----Original Message-----
          From: "vic_doyle" <vic_doyle@...>
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:20:30 -0000
          Subject: [SPAM RATING: 94%] [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under

          I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
          terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost
          impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
          asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.

          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
          >
          > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
          occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
          tolerant. Here you go:
          >
          > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
          February/021522.html
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@...>
          > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
          > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
          >
          > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under or
          > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and don't
          > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
          >
        • Travis Philp
          Maybe this is a regional issue but I don t see how anyone can say that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen wild polycultures with
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 5, 2008
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            Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season. Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to get established in say, a tallgrass situation.

            I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted the other plants:

            American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
            European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
            Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
            American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
            Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
            Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
            Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
            Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
            Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
            Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
            Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
            Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
            Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
            "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
            Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
            Catnip - Nepata cataria
            Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
            Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
            Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under

            I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
            walnut (European not so bad).

            The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
            poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
            managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
            nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
            to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
            asparagus!

            Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
            this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
            the crop would be given as compensation.

            Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
            in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
            bottled.

            Griselda


            On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:

            > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
            > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is almost
            > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
            > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
            >
            > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
            > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
            > tolerant. Here you go:
            > >
            > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
            > February/021522.html
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@...>
            > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
            > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
            > >
            > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
            > or
            > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and don't
            > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
            > >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • vic_doyle
            Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other plants. A Black Walnut
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 6, 2008
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              Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
              of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
              plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
              can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
              rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
              gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
              other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
              Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.


              --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
              >
              > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
              that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
              wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
              american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
              Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
              black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
              couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
              and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
              sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
              other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
              walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
              get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
              >
              > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
              my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
              plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
              presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
              the other plants:
              >
              > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
              > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
              > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
              > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
              > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
              > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
              > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
              > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
              > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
              > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
              > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
              > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
              > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
              > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
              > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
              > Catnip - Nepata cataria
              > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
              > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
              > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
              > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
              >
              > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
              black
              > walnut (European not so bad).
              >
              > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
              or
              > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
              > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
              but
              > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
              want
              > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
              tried
              > asparagus!
              >
              > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
              > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
              of
              > the crop would be given as compensation.
              >
              > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
              salted
              > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
              then
              > bottled.
              >
              > Griselda
              >
              >
              > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
              >
              > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
              > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
              almost
              > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
              perhaps
              > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
              > >
              > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
              naturally
              > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
              juglone
              > > tolerant. Here you go:
              > > >
              > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
              > > February/021522.html
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
              > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
              > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
              > > >
              > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
              under
              > > or
              > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
              don't
              > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Gloria Alexander
              Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60 . I also had one come
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Must say I have black walnut trees and there are dogwood trees and red bud (Judas Trees) growing fine near them, within the stated 60'. I also had one come up next to my veg garden couple years ago and need to remove it due to shading the garden, but my lima beans, herbs, a volunteer squash vine (which did tooooooooo well for me) collards did fine. These are within 50' or less from my black walnut trees.Know there is medicinal use for parasites with blackwalnut leaves etc. Just thought you might like to know that.

                vic_doyle <vic_doyle@...> wrote: Ive pasted this from a UK Permaculture website: Sometimes, the toxins
                of one plant totally destroy the health or growth of certain other
                plants. A Black Walnut tree, planted within 60 feet of your garden,
                can inhibit the growth and/or development of vegetables, azaleas,
                rhododendrons, blackberries, lilacs, peonies, and apple trees. It
                gives off a toxin called juglone which can do some serious damage to
                other plants. This chemical reaction is known as allelopathy.
                Sunflowers also have allelopathic properties.

                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
                >
                > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
                that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
                wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
                american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
                Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and
                black raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I
                couldn't identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade
                and the juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that
                sometimes had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of
                other plants. Could it be that the ground cover underneath the
                walnuts could be the major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to
                get established in say, a tallgrass situation.
                >
                > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
                my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
                plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the
                presence of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted
                the other plants:
                >
                > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
                > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
                > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
                > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
                > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
                > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
                > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
                > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
                > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
                > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
                > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
                > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
                > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
                > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
                > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
                > Catnip - Nepata cataria
                > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
                > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
                > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
                > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
                >
                > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American
                black
                > walnut (European not so bad).
                >
                > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin
                or
                > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
                > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine,
                but
                > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would
                want
                > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never
                tried
                > asparagus!
                >
                > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
                > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some
                of
                > the crop would be given as compensation.
                >
                > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced,
                salted
                > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and
                then
                > bottled.
                >
                > Griselda
                >
                >
                > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
                >
                > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
                > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
                almost
                > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except
                perhaps
                > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
                > >
                > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of
                naturally
                > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are
                juglone
                > > tolerant. Here you go:
                > > >
                > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
                > > February/021522.html
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
                > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
                > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
                > > >
                > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow
                under
                > > or
                > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
                don't
                > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >






                Gloria Hartis-Alexander
                Believing God
                www.marykay.com/truthgha
                MaryKay Shopping24/7




































                ---------------------------------
                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • omoak108
                What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling). ... that nothing can compete with or grow near
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 10, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  What about fruit and nut small tree size? Or nitrogen fixing
                  shrubs?...augustifolia (not sure of spelling).

                  --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Maybe this is a regional issue but I don't see how anyone can say
                  that nothing can compete with or grow near Black Walnuts. I have seen
                  wild polycultures with my own eyes. There was a row of 6 mature
                  american black walnut trees at the farm I worked at this season.
                  Underneath the walnuts were gooseberries, currants, both red and black
                  raspberries, as well as wild grapes and a few shrubs which I couldn't
                  identify. They were all doing very well despite the shade and the
                  juglone. I have seen walnuts in the wild of all sizes that sometimes
                  had the appearance of being choked out by a variety of other plants.
                  Could it be that the ground cover underneath the walnuts could be the
                  major suppressor? Its hard for many plants to get established in say,
                  a tallgrass situation.
                  >
                  > I can only account for actually seeing a few of these examples with
                  my own eyes but I would like to know if any of you have seen these
                  plants fail under a walnut, knowing full well that it was the presence
                  of the walnut tree, and not some other factor that stunted the other
                  plants:
                  >
                  > American Black Currant - Ribes americanum
                  > European Currant - Ribes nigra, Ribes rubrum, Ribes alba
                  > Missouri Gooseberry - Ribes missouriensis
                  > American Elderberry - Sambucus canadensis
                  > Black Raspberry - Rubus ideaus
                  > Siberian Pea Shrub - Caragana arboescens
                  > Mulberries - Morus nigra, Morus alba
                  > Alpine Strawberries - Fragaria vesca
                  > Goldenseal - Hydrastis canadensis
                  > Wild Ginger - Asarum canadense
                  > Pawpaw - Asimina triloba
                  > Redbud - Cercis canadensis - legume
                  > Bamboo - Phyllostachys spp.
                  > "Rose of Sharon" Hibiscus - Hibiscus Syriacus
                  > Lamb's Quarters - Chenopodium alba
                  > Catnip - Nepata cataria
                  > Daylily - Hemerocallis sp
                  > Sunchokes - Helianthus tuberosa
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Griselda Mussett <griselda1@...>
                  > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:50:52 +0000
                  > Subject: Re: [pfaf] Re: black walnut trees - growing under
                  >
                  > I agree it is v hard to grow anything under walnut, esp American black
                  > walnut (European not so bad).
                  >
                  > The leaves - especially with rain dripping off them - exude a toxin or
                  > poison which gives the tree a clear area with no competition. I
                  > managed to grow spring bulbs and flowers near to the trunk of mine, but
                  > nothing further out under the branches and I wondered if I would want
                  > to eat leaves which had had this poisonous drip on them. I never tried
                  > asparagus!
                  >
                  > Traditionally on smallholdings walnuts were grown in hedges to push
                  > this bad effect out onto the neighbours' land, and in return some of
                  > the crop would be given as compensation.
                  >
                  > Each year some of the walnuts were picked while green, pierced, salted
                  > in brine, and left to dry in the sun when they turned black, and then
                  > bottled.
                  >
                  > Griselda
                  >
                  >
                  > On 5 Feb 2008, at 14:20, vic_doyle wrote:
                  >
                  > > I think you will find that walnuts are among the most voracious in
                  > > terms of non companionship, they like to be on their own, it is
                  almost
                  > > impossible to grow anything else anywhere near them except perhaps
                  > > asparagus, which is delicious when served with walnuts.
                  > >
                  > > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Travis Philp" <trphilp@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Heres a great link to get you started. Its has a list of naturally
                  > > occuring companions as well as other 'useful' plants that are juglone
                  > > tolerant. Here you go:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2005-
                  > > February/021522.html
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: "Peggy" <peg6012@>
                  > > > To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:54:40 -0000
                  > > > Subject: [pfaf] black walnut trees - growing under
                  > > >
                  > > > What kinds of nuts, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, will grow under
                  > > or
                  > > > near black walnut trees? We have alot of these on our land and
                  don't
                  > > > want to cut them down or make this a walnut farm.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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