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Panache Fig Patent Rights

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  • ariel023
    Hi all Do you know if this variety is patented in the USA or Europe? Ariel
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 25, 2008
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      Hi all
      Do you know if this variety is patented in the USA or Europe?
      Ariel
    • Dan Culbertson
      The U.S. Plant Patent Act was passed in 1930 so I think any variety created before that date is in the public domain. Panachee seems to have been around for
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 28, 2008
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        The U.S. Plant Patent Act was passed in 1930 so I think any variety created before that date is in the public domain. Panachee seems to have been around for some long time so I expect it precedes the act. It is listed in the book "The Fig: Its History, Culture, and Curing" which has a publication date of 1901. You can download that book in PDF from http://books.google.com/books?id=7dZBAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=Panachee+fig+variety+history to check on other varieties of figs.

        Panachee is also listed in the USDA Repository Inventory of Available Accessions for Ficus (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=12871 ) with Country of Origin "unknown" which usually means its been around for a while. And since this USDA list is for germplasm that the USDA ARS provides on request I assume it is a list of non-patented historical varieties. So Panacee is almost certainly free of a patent in the U.S. (and probably Europe as well since the USDA would not distribute material patented elsewhere).

        I sure wish someone could point me to a quick list of all patented plants by varietal name since I have this problem on lots of plants I'd like to give away or sell at our local farmer's market! Plants don't seem to come with a handy patent notice stamped in an out of the way spot. :-(

        Dan

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "ariel023" <ariel023@...>
        To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 15:59
        Subject: [pfaf] Panache Fig Patent Rights


        > Hi all
        > Do you know if this variety is patented in the USA or Europe?
        > Ariel
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vic Doyle
        I don t know much about figs, i think they originate from the Mediterranian. The subject of patenting plants such as figs is quite nauseating to most people,
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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          I don't know much about figs, i think they originate from the Mediterranian. The subject of patenting plants such as figs is quite nauseating to most people, for example most varieties of corn are "owned" by private companies, yet the plant is native only in Mexico and Mexicans have to buy the right to plant their own self propogated "God given" indiginous seeds & crops, while the rest of industrialised society GMs and patents and sues people for growing naturally occuring food? The U.S. Patent act is an affront to fairness and goes against nature, and any common sense view.

          Dan Culbertson <danculb@...> wrote: The U.S. Plant Patent Act was passed in 1930 so I think any variety created before that date is in the public domain. Panachee seems to have been around for some long time so I expect it precedes the act. It is listed in the book "The Fig: Its History, Culture, and Curing" which has a publication date of 1901. You can download that book in PDF from http://books.google.com/books?id=7dZBAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=Panachee+fig+variety+history to check on other varieties of figs.

          Panachee is also listed in the USDA Repository Inventory of Available Accessions for Ficus (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=12871 ) with Country of Origin "unknown" which usually means its been around for a while. And since this USDA list is for germplasm that the USDA ARS provides on request I assume it is a list of non-patented historical varieties. So Panacee is almost certainly free of a patent in the U.S. (and probably Europe as well since the USDA would not distribute material patented elsewhere).

          I sure wish someone could point me to a quick list of all patented plants by varietal name since I have this problem on lots of plants I'd like to give away or sell at our local farmer's market! Plants don't seem to come with a handy patent notice stamped in an out of the way spot. :-(

          Dan

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "ariel023" <ariel023@...>
          To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 15:59
          Subject: [pfaf] Panache Fig Patent Rights

          > Hi all
          > Do you know if this variety is patented in the USA or Europe?
          > Ariel
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard Morris
          A few years back the plants for a future database was incorporated into the http://ip.aaas.org/tekindex.nsf Traditional
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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            A few years back the plants for a future database was incorporated
            into the http://ip.aaas.org/tekindex.nsf
            <http://ip.aaas.org/tekindex.nsf> Traditional
            Ecological Knowledge Prior Art Database (T.E.K.* P.A.D.)

            If Prior art can be found then it cannot be included in a patent
            claims. Some prior art can be found at T.E.K.*
            P.A.D. entry for fig.
            <http://ip.aaas.org/tekindex.nsf/Names?SearchView&Query=Fig>


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dan Culbertson
            Actually I think you are more talking about the U.S. Plant Variety Protection Act of 1970 which covers seeds. There is similar legislation in Europe and
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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              Actually I think you are more talking about the U.S. Plant Variety
              Protection Act of 1970 which covers seeds. There is similar legislation in
              Europe and pretty much around the world so the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly
              on stupidity. The older U.S. Plant Patent Act protected clonal varieties
              but not seeds (hybrid seeds have always been protected simply by secrecy and
              the fact that progeny of hybrids does not come true). There might be more
              justification for protecting clonal varieties since developing new varieties
              can be very difficult and there is little way to make a profit off of that
              research and development without protection - but I'm not a big fan of
              intellectual property laws of any sort. The main problem I see with the
              newer seed protection laws is they cover the *genome* which may jump into a
              farmer's old standby variety and then he gets sued by a megacorporation for
              the fact his neighbor contaminated his seed with foreign genes. That, and
              the ever increasing reliance by farmers on seed they cannot reproduce
              themselves, but that remains their choice in many cases. Only the
              marketplace drives farmers to intentionally use patented (or hybrid) seeds
              and clones and there is more damage done to farmers' competitiveness in the
              marketplace simply from having so many megafarms selling food way too cheap.
              Eliminating all patent laws wouldn't stop the problem of environmentally
              damaging and rapacious megafarming practices. Buying your food locally from
              farmers you know is a more hopeful strategy, especially if you insist on
              heritage fruits and vegetables and are willing to pay the extra cost.

              Anyhow, much as I dislike *all* patent and copyright legislation and think
              they are often counterproductive, they are there to bite me in the behind if
              I try to distribute certain varieties of food or fiber plants for either
              humanitarian reasons or profit. So I would still like to find a
              consolidated list of patented plants so I don't get burnt some day. There
              are still plenty of heritage varieties available, both in clonal and seed
              forms so we should use them and keep them viable and available. That is
              going to remain a grass roots efforts I believe. So knowing what is and
              isn't patented is a good idea so we all can seek out the unpatented stuff
              and keep it around for the future.

              Dan

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Vic Doyle" <vic_doyle@...>
              To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 05:39
              Subject: Re: [pfaf] Panache Fig Patent Rights


              >I don't know much about figs, i think they originate from the
              >Mediterranian. The subject of patenting plants such as figs is quite
              >nauseating to most people, for example most varieties of corn are "owned"
              >by private companies, yet the plant is native only in Mexico and Mexicans
              >have to buy the right to plant their own self propogated "God given"
              >indiginous seeds & crops, while the rest of industrialised society GMs and
              >patents and sues people for growing naturally occuring food? The U.S.
              >Patent act is an affront to fairness and goes against nature, and any
              >common sense view.
              >
              > Dan Culbertson <danculb@...> wrote: The U.S. Plant
              > Patent Act was passed in 1930 so I think any variety created before that
              > date is in the public domain. Panachee seems to have been around for some
              > long time so I expect it precedes the act. It is listed in the book "The
              > Fig: Its History, Culture, and Curing" which has a publication date of
              > 1901. You can download that book in PDF from
              > http://books.google.com/books?id=7dZBAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=Panachee+fig+variety+history
              > to check on other varieties of figs.
              >
              > Panachee is also listed in the USDA Repository Inventory of Available
              > Accessions for Ficus (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=12871 )
              > with Country of Origin "unknown" which usually means its been around for a
              > while. And since this USDA list is for germplasm that the USDA ARS
              > provides on request I assume it is a list of non-patented historical
              > varieties. So Panacee is almost certainly free of a patent in the U.S.
              > (and probably Europe as well since the USDA would not distribute material
              > patented elsewhere).
              >
              > I sure wish someone could point me to a quick list of all patented plants
              > by varietal name since I have this problem on lots of plants I'd like to
              > give away or sell at our local farmer's market! Plants don't seem to come
              > with a handy patent notice stamped in an out of the way spot. :-(
              >
              > Dan
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "ariel023" <ariel023@...>
              > To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 15:59
              > Subject: [pfaf] Panache Fig Patent Rights
              >
              >> Hi all
              >> Do you know if this variety is patented in the USA or Europe?
              >> Ariel
              >>
            • Griselda Mussett
              Amen to all that, Dan. Well said. Griselda ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                Amen to all that, Dan. Well said.
                Griselda


                On 29 Jan 2008, at 14:38, Dan Culbertson wrote:

                > There
                > are still plenty of heritage varieties available, both in clonal and
                > seed
                > forms so we should use them and keep them viable and available. That
                > is
                > going to remain a grass roots efforts I believe. So knowing what is
                > and
                > isn't patented is a good idea so we all can seek out the unpatented
                > stuff
                > and keep it around for the future.
                >
                > Dan


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Infowolf1@aol.com
                so we should starve at high prices to keep farmers competitive? Mary Christine In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:09:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                  so we should starve at high prices to keep farmers competitive?

                  Mary Christine


                  In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:09:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                  danculb@... writes:

                  and there is more damage done to farmers' competitiveness in the
                  marketplace simply from having so many megafarms selling food way too cheap.






                  **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ewt
                  Naw, grow your own. Then you don t pay much and you don t starve. This is difficult for me, as I don t have a garden at all. I have one windowsill which I use
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                    Naw, grow your own. Then you don't pay much and you don't starve.

                    This is difficult for me, as I don't have a garden at all. I have one
                    windowsill which I use for aloe vera, herbs, and sprouted seeds; the rest of
                    my really local food is foraged from various parks. It's good fun, good
                    exercise, gives me excellent fresh food I could never buy in shops anyway (I
                    have eaten many things that I've NEVER seen for sale), and costs me nothing.
                    I can't supply my entire diet this way, mostly due to time constraints, but
                    doing some of it means I can afford to spend my food budget on
                    better-quality food from farmer's markets etc. rather than going for the
                    cheapest supermarket option.

                    We've been eating way-too-cheap food for a long time. The party's over.

                    Best,

                    ewt

                    On 29/01/2008, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > so we should starve at high prices to keep farmers competitive?
                    >
                    > Mary Christine
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:09:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                    > danculb@... <danculb%40netcommander.com> writes:
                    >
                    > and there is more damage done to farmers' competitiveness in the
                    > marketplace simply from having so many megafarms selling food way too
                    > cheap.
                    >
                    >
                    > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                    > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Erez Gur
                    I think everyone is exaggerating the evil of plant variety protection ( plant patents ). If you guys want I could probably write a brief tutorial, but I doubt
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                      I think everyone is exaggerating the evil of plant
                      variety protection ("plant patents"). If you guys want
                      I could probably write a brief tutorial, but I doubt
                      this is the forum.

                      To make a long story short, "plant patents" exist in
                      order to give breeders (e.g., farmers) protection for
                      a new variety they have developed, for example a
                      narcissus having a special shape/color or a new type
                      of potato. This allows a person who develops a new
                      plant to profit from their efforts and to return the
                      investment they made in developing the plant variety.

                      Any patent, including a "plant patent", cannot take
                      something from the public that already existed.

                      to Ariel's question:
                      a) If the fig variety "panache" is naturally occuring
                      it cannot be patented.
                      b) "plant patents" are of limited term, I believe 20
                      years in the US and 30 years for trees in Europe.


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                    • Dan Culbertson
                      I agree, grow your own is a happy solution. Or - just eat lower on the food chain but of a higher and more environmentally sound quality. Buy in bulk and
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                        I agree, "grow your own" is a happy solution. Or - just eat lower on the
                        food chain but of a higher and more environmentally sound quality. Buy in
                        bulk and avoid pre-cooked, prepackaged stuff (and animal products) and you
                        can have your cake and environment too. Though we might actually have to
                        get back in the kitchen and lose some good computer or TV frolicking time
                        doing that. Anyhow, I suspect very few North Americans or Europeans would
                        starve even if food costs quadrupled. And we might actually get back to a
                        more reasonable average weight... But that is beside the point. If people
                        value cheap food over sound, sustainable, farming practices then so be it.
                        We can each make our own moral judgement even when "Cheaper at any cost."
                        seems to be the current cultural mantra. Those of us who place more value
                        in a long term view of social responsibility than in cheapness will probably
                        tend to look for environmetally sustainable foods and support local farmers
                        even if it costs more. But only to the extent possible in each person's
                        situation - anyone at the edge of starving should, of course, worry more
                        about getting by today than the future. Which is why I said it will always
                        be a grass roots effort. At my age and health I am pretty much beyond
                        seeking grandiose top-down solutions to from-the-top created problems. I'll
                        be long dead before anything gets fixed in the political world. But I am
                        not beyond thinking about future generations and wishing them well - and
                        doing what I feel is my personal part in supporting the few good farmers and
                        gardeners left in the world who just might be the seed of a good life for
                        those folks in the post-petroleum future. Local farmers on local farms seem
                        to me to be more easily influenced toward sustainability than
                        megacorporations and their rapacious food production factories. Your
                        mileage may vary.

                        With hope and good luck to all,

                        Dan

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "ewt" <ewtster@...>
                        To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 13:41
                        Subject: Re: [pfaf] Panache Fig Patent Rights


                        > Naw, grow your own. Then you don't pay much and you don't starve.
                        >
                        > This is difficult for me, as I don't have a garden at all. I have one
                        > windowsill which I use for aloe vera, herbs, and sprouted seeds; the rest
                        > of
                        > my really local food is foraged from various parks. It's good fun, good
                        > exercise, gives me excellent fresh food I could never buy in shops anyway
                        > (I
                        > have eaten many things that I've NEVER seen for sale), and costs me
                        > nothing.
                        > I can't supply my entire diet this way, mostly due to time constraints,
                        > but
                        > doing some of it means I can afford to spend my food budget on
                        > better-quality food from farmer's markets etc. rather than going for the
                        > cheapest supermarket option.
                        >
                        > We've been eating way-too-cheap food for a long time. The party's over.
                        >
                        > Best,
                        >
                        > ewt
                        >
                        > On 29/01/2008, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> so we should starve at high prices to keep farmers competitive?
                        >>
                        >> Mary Christine
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:09:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                        >> danculb@... <danculb%40netcommander.com> writes:
                        >>
                        >> and there is more damage done to farmers' competitiveness in the
                        >> marketplace simply from having so many megafarms selling food way too
                        >> cheap.
                        >>
                        >>
                      • ariel023
                        Dear Erez Gur and all patenters In various countries there are different Plant Breeders Rights Laws ot Plant Patent Acts etc There are also International
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 29, 2008
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                          Dear Erez Gur and all patenters

                          In various countries there are different Plant Breeders
                          Rights Laws ot Plant Patent Acts etc

                          There are also International Treaties for various countries
                          but not all participate in the agreements

                          Unlkike what people think, I can dictate an agreement on any
                          variety I develope for 72.5 years whith gurantees etc, to
                          protce orvreproduce a certain variety

                          The Law of Contracts may play here a rule and not the Plant
                          ones

                          Ariel
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