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Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

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  • Niels Corfield
    It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging holes in a leaky dam with your fingers. That said some precautions as well as
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
      It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging
      holes in a leaky dam with your fingers.
      That said some precautions as well as preparations I think can give success.

      From experience with a grower near Hebdon Bridge, near Halifax, in the
      Yorkshire Pennines, where climate is something comparable, to say the
      least, much success has been gained by rearing plants in a nursery till
      quite large, on tables. We have extended this model and started to
      include shelving units as well as tables. And you can take further
      action by placing the legs of these tables in deep troughs of water
      and/or wrapping copper wire around the legs. Though be sure to keep the
      grass down around shelves especially as it can easily grow above above
      these first-line defences. We raised much of our brassica crop into 2l
      pots before planting-out and they have survived into maturity (though
      are still affected by slugs).
      Both in the nursery and in your plantings there is no substitute for
      healthy, vigorous plants. With well supplied fertile planting media the
      final objective, whether in your soil in containers in the nursery. I
      would recommend the widespread application of rock dust,
      http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_165_166&products_id=2546.
      It will be more economic to apply this product to growing media/composts
      in the nursery than in your beds. Though a one time high-level dose of
      rock dust is worthwhile, and if you operate a no-dig system, with
      widespread use of deep-rooting companion/fertility plants, you should
      never have to make again. Bearing in-mind though that the object is
      raise healthy plants (in a healthy soil) that well disposed to resist
      predation (by slugs or whatever). I remember well a garden I visited in
      Asturias, Spain, a very maritime, mountainous region with much rain and
      clay. The example that sticks in the mind is of one particularly mangy
      looking brassica bed, in dry panned earth. However what was most
      interesting about this bed was that only one of these plants was badly
      effected by slug attacks. So I like to think of these beasts as a little
      more discerning than perhaps they are painted.
      In addition to this there are nursery container technologies that
      promote healthy plants by encouraging root development and virtually
      eliminating the issue of circling roots. One brand is called
      Rootrainers, they are expensive but do represent a real advantage in the
      critical early months as well furnishing you with sturdy plants ready
      for the onslaught.
      There is always something going-on at the microscopic level that we are
      seldom sensitive to. With this in mind, I'd like to suggest some other
      techniques for building soil life, or "a healthy Soil Foodweb". Which
      some feel now, is the key to healthy plant systems. Much more than the
      more widely accepted soil chemistry model. That minerals and other plant
      "foods", and their availability, is governed much more by soil
      microbiology. So nurturing soil micro-organisms (MOs) (and culturing
      your own) is one route to improving soil and plant health.
      I offer two complementary methods to realise this aim, without a degree
      in biology and simple materials:
      _Effective Micro-organisms (EM)_:
      -laboratory-isolated and cultured complementary group of MOs easily
      multiplied and prepared for garden application at home
      -also very effective at processing pure kitchen waste (cooked food,
      meat, fish the lot)
      -a renewed interest in ferments, as an analogy for beneficial soil
      processes -NB no "bad smells" in the compost or in the soil.
      http://del.icio.us/entrailer/EM
      http://www.livingsoil.co.uk/learning/whatis.html
      _Actively Aerated Compost Teas_ ("Biobrews")
      -home-prepared soil-plant "feeds"
      -can be applied to leaves and soil
      Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/BioBrew
      Books: /"Teaming with Microbes" /by Jeff Lowenfels
      Yahoo group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/

      The other much overlooked and vitally important soil process is that of
      mycorrhizal fungi and their beneficial associations with plants. Their
      absence is almost guaranteed in a clean cultivated environment, yet they
      improve plant vigour significantly by extending root run, as much as
      100x; allowing further and more efficient gathering of nutrients and
      water by the plant, and in some cases by actually physically protecting
      the plant roots from attack, in this case by "snaring" parasitic
      nematodes while they forage in the root zone, looking to invade the
      roots thus weakening the plant. This phenomenon can apparently be seen
      in /Private Life of Plants/ BBC documentary series. Needless to say the
      action of these organisms will serve to weaken a plant making it more
      susceptible to slug damage.
      You can either make your own:
      http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Make%20your%20own%20Mycorrhizal
      http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets&id=106&dd=otherUploadeddocs/MycorrizhaMP08(E)_23.pdf
      http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets
      Or buy a product e.g.:
      http://www.fire1076.co.uk/rootgrowhome.php
      and then make your own.
      But remember they can't survive without living host plants (symbiosis).
      Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/mycorhizal

      The bottom-line here is that balanced ecosystems are not prone to the
      kind of explosive or destructive nature of slugs etc. The above measures
      promote health and balance in the garden.

      As for other techniques aimed directly at slugs: I have had good results
      with nematodes ("Nemaslug"). The main draw-back is the nematodes don't
      keep once the packet is open. One pack does 100 square metres. So my
      advice is to have enough plants to plant the whole area in one go. Or at
      least to have 100m2 worth of beds prepared for seeding. We had good
      success with direct seeding after nematode application also.
      I had satisfactory results with the organic slug pellets "Advanced Slug
      Killer". Best price B&Q. However they do end-up being an expensive
      solution as you will have to re-apply. They also seem not to be suitable
      for use with containers in the nursery, especially in the greenhouse, as
      they seem to act as a vector for fungi which seem to proliferate off
      them and all around the young seedlings, not good.
      Another option is copper tools. I have no experience of this directly
      but there seems some interest in these. They are expensive but from what
      I have seen, well-made.
      http://www.implementations.co.uk/
      The beer traps info provided by a previous respondent is useful. To this
      I would add, though perhaps implied earlier, that is very important to
      raise the level of the entrance holes above the soil. This will stop
      other creatures (beetle especially) from being drowned also. Also
      consider making the holes quite small, as I found a shrew in one of my
      traps last year.

      All these ideas, unfortunately, equate to more work and more learning.
      You might be lucky, one of these solutions used judiciously may give
      good results. Perhaps Nemaslug is the best candidate, but again you have
      to have things in place to make best use of its potential.

      Hope this helps.

      All the best,
      Niels



      My Bookmarks:
      http://del.icio.us/entrailer

      My Pics and Projects:
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/nielscorfield/
      http://picasaweb.google.com/mudguard

      Groups I Contribute to:
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/polyculturepeople/
      http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/leeds_permaculture_network/?yguid=243022692
      http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/scythe




      Griselda Mussett wrote:
      >
      > Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
      > their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
      > opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
      > parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
      > round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
      > shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.
      >
      > On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:
      >
      > > .. .. there's one type of duck
      > > >
      > > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
      > > its name.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
      > > easy
      > > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
      > > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Light2uToo@aol.com
      Travis Philp _trphilp@flemingc.on.ca _ (mailto:trphilp@flemingc.on.ca?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
        "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
        (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

        << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
        and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
        holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
        leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

        That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
        around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
        so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
        with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
        have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
        must be little creatures.

        I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
        beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
        Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
        something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

        Lena


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      • ingrid glass
        Hi! I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn t have a problem with
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
          Hi!

          I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn't have a problem with slugs/snails eating their veg because they attracted sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced ecosystem. It had taken many years to achieve this - seems like a sustainable (permaculture) way to approach the problem to me, tho' more of a long term approach I guess. His website is : http://www.foxleas.com/

          Ingrid


          ________________________________

          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          From: juliano8@...
          Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 +0000
          Subject: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!







          HI,

          This is my very first post here.

          I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
          permaculture garden where I live.
          It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
          order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
          to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
          Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

          I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
          vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
          organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
          keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

          But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
          first(?) MAJOR problem.

          I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
          emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
          find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

          So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.



          _________________________________________________________________
          Celeb spotting – Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes
          https://www.celebmashup.com
        • Allmende Verden
          Hi everybody, here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
            Hi everybody,
            here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters
            are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
            another method is to keep the soil without mulch over winter (what is
            bad for both, slugs and soil).

            In our project we`re trying to use only materials and technics that,
            at least in theory, can be made availible by smal groups of people
            under any economical circumstances.
            We`re using slug-fences. The overal principle of these can be seen here
            http://www.slugfence.com/slug_info/fence_info/hauptteil_fence_info.html

            It is an inteligence-barrier. To come over it the slug would have to
            climb in the opposite direction it wants to go.
            We built a fence from regional oak-wood which can be seen on the
            bottom of http://davyd.de/allmende/fotos3.html

            A good lute might be birch bark tar.

            still you`ll have the slugs and their eggs inside the fenced area and
            it`ll be ongoing reinfected by mulch or something. For these problems
            we found collecting of the slugs successful.
            for that we`re baiting them with selected rests from the kitchen:
            brassica, fruit, avocado, onion... (experiment what yours like best!).
            The best time for collecting is in the dark, when dew has fallen.
            Worse is in rain and daylight. In the sunlight you won`t find any.
            Best of all they like the cut and dead bodies of other slugs, so a
            second patrol over the area will be successful.
            greetings from Klaus

            Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
            Artilleriestr. 6
            D-27283 Verden
            Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
            Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
            http://davyd.de/allmende
            Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
          • Travis Philp
            They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants. Too much moisture is
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
              They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants.

              Too much moisture is impossible to avoid in the Frasier Valley except for freakishly dry seasons which are rare. We used only well rotted compost so that wasn't a factor...As for getting "some sun down there", I'm not sure what else I can do. The sun doesn't take my requests, and believe me I've asked for it. When slugs are in small numbers I let them do their thing but in a garden that is only two years old their population is too great. We knocked their population back and then once they stopped decimating our crops we left them alone. I think that taking 2 acres and leaving with them with about 78 isn't asking too much.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...>
              To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600
              Subject: [pfaf] Re:my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

              Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
              too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
              things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
              and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


              ---Marcia Cash
              Traveler in Thyme
              http://www.travelerinthyme.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Travis Philp
              You re welcome. I don t know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so. ... From:
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                You're welcome. I don't know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Light2uToo@...
                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:47:41 EST
                Subject: [pfaf] Re: my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                must be little creatures.

                I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                Lena


                _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)






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              • Infowolf1@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ingrid_glass@hotmail.com writes: sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                  In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                  ingrid_glass@... writes:

                  sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                  ecosystem.



                  I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                  in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                  I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                  are my best bet.

                  Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                  population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                  Mary Christine



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                  products.
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                • Allmende Verden
                  Hi! We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn t only attrack the slugs you ve got in your garden, it also attracks every slug in the
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                    Hi!
                    We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                    only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                    every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                    them, while the next ones are arriving.
                    The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                    the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                    And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.

                    Greets from northern Germany,
                    Alex

                    Zitat von Light2uToo@...:

                    > "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                    > (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                    > Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                    > and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                    > Position the
                    > holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                    > leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                    >
                    > That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                    > around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                    > it can get
                    > so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                    > with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                    > have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                    > must be little creatures.
                    >
                    > I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                    > beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                    > Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                    > something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                    >
                    > Lena
                    >
                    >
                    > _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                    > (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                    > products.
                    > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                    Artilleriestr. 6
                    D-27283 Verden
                    Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                    Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                    http://davyd.de/allmende
                    Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                  • Allmende Verden
                    I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer boarders of the bed
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                      I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we
                      used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer
                      boarders of the bed (hoping to catch the slugs coming from outside),
                      though always slugs were caught in control-traps in the center. And in
                      the end maybe we breeded beer-resistant slugs: this year when the
                      population aroused enormous, the number of slugs in the traps didn´t.
                      greets from Klaus


                      > Hi!
                      > We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                      > only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                      > every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                      > them, while the next ones are arriving.
                      > The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                      > the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                      > And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.
                      >
                      > Greets from northern Germany,
                      > Alex
                      >
                      > Zitat von Light2uToo@...:
                      >
                      >> "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                      >> (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                      >> Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                      >> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                      >> and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                      >> Position the
                      >> holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                      >> leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                      >>
                      >> That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                      >> around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                      >> it can get
                      >> so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                      >> with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                      >> have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a
                      >> problem. They
                      >> must be little creatures.
                      >>
                      >> I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                      >> beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                      >> Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                      >> something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                      >>
                      >> Lena
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                      >> (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                      >> products.
                      >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                      > Artilleriestr. 6
                      > D-27283 Verden
                      > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                      > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                      > http://davyd.de/allmende
                      > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                      >
                      >



                      Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                      Artilleriestr. 6
                      D-27283 Verden
                      Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                      Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                      http://davyd.de/allmende
                      Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                    • veronica giselle lescano
                      Hi, If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                        Hi,
                        If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest and which are used to lure the pest away from the actual crop), or intercropping (two crops are grown together, either intimately within the same row or in adjacent rows, when onions and carrots are grown together , the strong smell of the onions masks that of the carrots which are thus given protection from the carrot rrot fly, for example, some plants are known to be repellent to some invertebrates pests. Here in South America, as the soil is very humid, we usually use some of these techniques to protect crops from being damage by invertebrates,
                        Greetings
                        Veronica


                        Infowolf1@... escribió:

                        In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                        ingrid_glass@... writes:

                        sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                        ecosystem.

                        I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                        in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                        I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                        are my best bet.

                        Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                        population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                        Mary Christine

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                      • vic_doyle
                        ... balanced ... illegal ... Also, ... eaten. Birds ... of a rat ... results. ... Reply- Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 11, 2008
                          --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                          > ingrid_glass@... writes:
                          >
                          > sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a
                          balanced
                          > ecosystem.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are
                          illegal
                          > in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it.
                          Also,
                          > I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get
                          eaten. Birds
                          > are my best bet.
                          >
                          > Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough
                          of a rat
                          > population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the
                          results.
                          >
                          > Mary Christine
                          >
                          Reply-

                          Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                          Khaki Campbell ducks as they eat all slugs in the area and they lay
                          lots of eggs, so go get ducking!!!
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