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Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

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  • Geir Flatabø
    The nematodes have very limited effect, needing special humidity, and only working when the slugs are small... Geir Flatabø
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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      The nematodes have very limited effect,
      needing special humidity,
      and only working when the slugs are small...

      Geir Flatabø

      2007/12/1, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>:
      >
      > In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
      > biker_muggridge@... writes:
      >
      > Hello Juliano
      > Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition,
      > mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then
      > penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but
      > they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for
      > 'biological control of slugs.'
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > What else do they kill?
      >
      >
      >
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    • Pat Meadows
      ... We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as well. I use a slug bait that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is based
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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        On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


        >
        > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
        > first(?) MAJOR problem.
        >
        > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
        > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
        > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
        >
        > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
        >

        We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
        well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
        based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
        works well.

        We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
        UK.

        Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
        garden center to inquire:
        http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

        Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
        you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
        can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
        to cope with ducks.

        Pat
        -- Northern Pennsylvania

        Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
        the one we have.
      • Travis Philp
        Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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          Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success with using mock beer traps. It was cheap, simple, highly effective, and you don't need to use real beer.

          Here's a recipe I found online at http://www.slugsandsalal.com/bookrevu/slugguide.html I have not used this exact recipe so I cannot vouch for its specific effectiveness but as long as you get that beer smell the slugs will make an exodus to your traps.

          According to Field Guide to the Slug some of the best slug traps using beer are made from plastic margarine tubs or sour cream type containers, "the depth of which makes it harder for satiated slugs to escape."

          Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil, leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level.

          It's the scent of malt and yeast that attracts the voracious creatures. Adding a dash of baker's yeast makes a beer trap more effective. For a less expensive effective substitute for the beer, a mixture of yeast, flour and water can be used. Field Guide to the Slug gives this recipe: "In lieu of beer, an equally potent attractant can be concocted from two tablespoons of flour, one-half teaspoon of brewer's yeast, and one teaspoon of sugar mixed in two cups of warm water."

          If your recipe doesn't work it may be too watery of a mixture. I also suspect humidity plays a part. Let me know how it goes.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Pat Meadows <pat@...>
          To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:39:52 -0500
          Subject: Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

          On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


          >
          > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
          > first(?) MAJOR problem.
          >
          > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
          > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
          > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
          >
          > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
          >

          We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
          well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
          based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
          works well.

          We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
          UK.

          Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
          garden center to inquire:
          http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

          Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
          you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
          can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
          to cope with ducks.

          Pat
          -- Northern Pennsylvania

          Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
          the one we have.
        • Infowolf1@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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            In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            pat@... writes:

            Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.


            do they eat snails too?



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          • Infowolf1@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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              In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
              pat@... writes:

              Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.




              I understand moles eat snails and slugs too



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            • Pat Meadows
              ... I don t have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do. They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs. But they quack and maybe annoy
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:38:02 EST, you wrote:

                >
                >In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                >pat@... writes:
                >
                >Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.
                >
                >
                > do they eat snails too?

                I don't have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do.
                They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs.

                But they quack and maybe annoy neighbors..... there's one type of duck
                which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.

                Pat
                -- Northern Pennsylvania

                Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                the one we have.
              • Traveler in Thyme
                Slugs are not a problem they are a symptom of the real problem, which is too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep things
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                  Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                  too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                  things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                  and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                  ---Marcia Cash
                  Traveler in Thyme
                  http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Pat Meadows
                  ... This is not always true. Also, it s difficult to keep things drier in a rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks on end
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                    On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600, you wrote:

                    >Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                    >too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                    >things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                    >and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............
                    >

                    This is not always true. Also, it's difficult to keep things drier in a
                    rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks
                    on end of rain. (Thankfully, not every spring, but some springs we do.)

                    I've had slugs in containers that were sitting on a paved (cement) path. No
                    mulch. For that matter, no rotting vegetation either: I used all-purpose
                    soilless mix in those particular containers. Still lots of slugs.

                    Conditions differ from place to place - especially in gardening.

                    Pat

                    -- Northern Pennsylvania

                    Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                    the one we have.
                  • Clarke Editing Services
                    .. .. there s one type of duck ... That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy to keep. Doesn t need a pond either, just a little
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                      .. .. there's one type of duck
                      >
                      > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.
                      >
                      >
                      That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                      to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                      without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                    • Infowolf1@aol.com
                      In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@gol.com writes: That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                        In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@...
                        writes:


                        That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                        to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                        without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.





                        Where can I get them? Are they big enough cats would feel inhibited
                        about attacking them?



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                      • Griselda Mussett
                        Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my opinion) they
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                          Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                          their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                          opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                          parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                          round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                          shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.

                          On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:

                          > .. .. there's one type of duck
                          > >
                          > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                          > its name.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                          > easy
                          > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                          > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Niels Corfield
                          It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging holes in a leaky dam with your fingers. That said some precautions as well as
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                            It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging
                            holes in a leaky dam with your fingers.
                            That said some precautions as well as preparations I think can give success.

                            From experience with a grower near Hebdon Bridge, near Halifax, in the
                            Yorkshire Pennines, where climate is something comparable, to say the
                            least, much success has been gained by rearing plants in a nursery till
                            quite large, on tables. We have extended this model and started to
                            include shelving units as well as tables. And you can take further
                            action by placing the legs of these tables in deep troughs of water
                            and/or wrapping copper wire around the legs. Though be sure to keep the
                            grass down around shelves especially as it can easily grow above above
                            these first-line defences. We raised much of our brassica crop into 2l
                            pots before planting-out and they have survived into maturity (though
                            are still affected by slugs).
                            Both in the nursery and in your plantings there is no substitute for
                            healthy, vigorous plants. With well supplied fertile planting media the
                            final objective, whether in your soil in containers in the nursery. I
                            would recommend the widespread application of rock dust,
                            http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_165_166&products_id=2546.
                            It will be more economic to apply this product to growing media/composts
                            in the nursery than in your beds. Though a one time high-level dose of
                            rock dust is worthwhile, and if you operate a no-dig system, with
                            widespread use of deep-rooting companion/fertility plants, you should
                            never have to make again. Bearing in-mind though that the object is
                            raise healthy plants (in a healthy soil) that well disposed to resist
                            predation (by slugs or whatever). I remember well a garden I visited in
                            Asturias, Spain, a very maritime, mountainous region with much rain and
                            clay. The example that sticks in the mind is of one particularly mangy
                            looking brassica bed, in dry panned earth. However what was most
                            interesting about this bed was that only one of these plants was badly
                            effected by slug attacks. So I like to think of these beasts as a little
                            more discerning than perhaps they are painted.
                            In addition to this there are nursery container technologies that
                            promote healthy plants by encouraging root development and virtually
                            eliminating the issue of circling roots. One brand is called
                            Rootrainers, they are expensive but do represent a real advantage in the
                            critical early months as well furnishing you with sturdy plants ready
                            for the onslaught.
                            There is always something going-on at the microscopic level that we are
                            seldom sensitive to. With this in mind, I'd like to suggest some other
                            techniques for building soil life, or "a healthy Soil Foodweb". Which
                            some feel now, is the key to healthy plant systems. Much more than the
                            more widely accepted soil chemistry model. That minerals and other plant
                            "foods", and their availability, is governed much more by soil
                            microbiology. So nurturing soil micro-organisms (MOs) (and culturing
                            your own) is one route to improving soil and plant health.
                            I offer two complementary methods to realise this aim, without a degree
                            in biology and simple materials:
                            _Effective Micro-organisms (EM)_:
                            -laboratory-isolated and cultured complementary group of MOs easily
                            multiplied and prepared for garden application at home
                            -also very effective at processing pure kitchen waste (cooked food,
                            meat, fish the lot)
                            -a renewed interest in ferments, as an analogy for beneficial soil
                            processes -NB no "bad smells" in the compost or in the soil.
                            http://del.icio.us/entrailer/EM
                            http://www.livingsoil.co.uk/learning/whatis.html
                            _Actively Aerated Compost Teas_ ("Biobrews")
                            -home-prepared soil-plant "feeds"
                            -can be applied to leaves and soil
                            Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/BioBrew
                            Books: /"Teaming with Microbes" /by Jeff Lowenfels
                            Yahoo group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/

                            The other much overlooked and vitally important soil process is that of
                            mycorrhizal fungi and their beneficial associations with plants. Their
                            absence is almost guaranteed in a clean cultivated environment, yet they
                            improve plant vigour significantly by extending root run, as much as
                            100x; allowing further and more efficient gathering of nutrients and
                            water by the plant, and in some cases by actually physically protecting
                            the plant roots from attack, in this case by "snaring" parasitic
                            nematodes while they forage in the root zone, looking to invade the
                            roots thus weakening the plant. This phenomenon can apparently be seen
                            in /Private Life of Plants/ BBC documentary series. Needless to say the
                            action of these organisms will serve to weaken a plant making it more
                            susceptible to slug damage.
                            You can either make your own:
                            http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Make%20your%20own%20Mycorrhizal
                            http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets&id=106&dd=otherUploadeddocs/MycorrizhaMP08(E)_23.pdf
                            http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets
                            Or buy a product e.g.:
                            http://www.fire1076.co.uk/rootgrowhome.php
                            and then make your own.
                            But remember they can't survive without living host plants (symbiosis).
                            Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/mycorhizal

                            The bottom-line here is that balanced ecosystems are not prone to the
                            kind of explosive or destructive nature of slugs etc. The above measures
                            promote health and balance in the garden.

                            As for other techniques aimed directly at slugs: I have had good results
                            with nematodes ("Nemaslug"). The main draw-back is the nematodes don't
                            keep once the packet is open. One pack does 100 square metres. So my
                            advice is to have enough plants to plant the whole area in one go. Or at
                            least to have 100m2 worth of beds prepared for seeding. We had good
                            success with direct seeding after nematode application also.
                            I had satisfactory results with the organic slug pellets "Advanced Slug
                            Killer". Best price B&Q. However they do end-up being an expensive
                            solution as you will have to re-apply. They also seem not to be suitable
                            for use with containers in the nursery, especially in the greenhouse, as
                            they seem to act as a vector for fungi which seem to proliferate off
                            them and all around the young seedlings, not good.
                            Another option is copper tools. I have no experience of this directly
                            but there seems some interest in these. They are expensive but from what
                            I have seen, well-made.
                            http://www.implementations.co.uk/
                            The beer traps info provided by a previous respondent is useful. To this
                            I would add, though perhaps implied earlier, that is very important to
                            raise the level of the entrance holes above the soil. This will stop
                            other creatures (beetle especially) from being drowned also. Also
                            consider making the holes quite small, as I found a shrew in one of my
                            traps last year.

                            All these ideas, unfortunately, equate to more work and more learning.
                            You might be lucky, one of these solutions used judiciously may give
                            good results. Perhaps Nemaslug is the best candidate, but again you have
                            to have things in place to make best use of its potential.

                            Hope this helps.

                            All the best,
                            Niels



                            My Bookmarks:
                            http://del.icio.us/entrailer

                            My Pics and Projects:
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/nielscorfield/
                            http://picasaweb.google.com/mudguard

                            Groups I Contribute to:
                            http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/polyculturepeople/
                            http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/leeds_permaculture_network/?yguid=243022692
                            http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/scythe




                            Griselda Mussett wrote:
                            >
                            > Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                            > their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                            > opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                            > parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                            > round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                            > shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.
                            >
                            > On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:
                            >
                            > > .. .. there's one type of duck
                            > > >
                            > > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                            > > its name.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                            > > easy
                            > > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                            > > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Light2uToo@aol.com
                            Travis Philp _trphilp@flemingc.on.ca _ (mailto:trphilp@flemingc.on.ca?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                              "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                              (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                              << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                              and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                              holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                              leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                              That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                              around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                              so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                              with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                              have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                              must be little creatures.

                              I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                              beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                              Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                              something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                              Lena


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                            • ingrid glass
                              Hi! I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn t have a problem with
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                Hi!

                                I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn't have a problem with slugs/snails eating their veg because they attracted sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced ecosystem. It had taken many years to achieve this - seems like a sustainable (permaculture) way to approach the problem to me, tho' more of a long term approach I guess. His website is : http://www.foxleas.com/

                                Ingrid


                                ________________________________

                                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                From: juliano8@...
                                Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 +0000
                                Subject: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!







                                HI,

                                This is my very first post here.

                                I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
                                permaculture garden where I live.
                                It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
                                order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
                                to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
                                Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

                                I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
                                vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
                                organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
                                keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

                                But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                                first(?) MAJOR problem.

                                I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                                emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                                find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

                                So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.



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                              • Allmende Verden
                                Hi everybody, here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                  Hi everybody,
                                  here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters
                                  are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                  another method is to keep the soil without mulch over winter (what is
                                  bad for both, slugs and soil).

                                  In our project we`re trying to use only materials and technics that,
                                  at least in theory, can be made availible by smal groups of people
                                  under any economical circumstances.
                                  We`re using slug-fences. The overal principle of these can be seen here
                                  http://www.slugfence.com/slug_info/fence_info/hauptteil_fence_info.html

                                  It is an inteligence-barrier. To come over it the slug would have to
                                  climb in the opposite direction it wants to go.
                                  We built a fence from regional oak-wood which can be seen on the
                                  bottom of http://davyd.de/allmende/fotos3.html

                                  A good lute might be birch bark tar.

                                  still you`ll have the slugs and their eggs inside the fenced area and
                                  it`ll be ongoing reinfected by mulch or something. For these problems
                                  we found collecting of the slugs successful.
                                  for that we`re baiting them with selected rests from the kitchen:
                                  brassica, fruit, avocado, onion... (experiment what yours like best!).
                                  The best time for collecting is in the dark, when dew has fallen.
                                  Worse is in rain and daylight. In the sunlight you won`t find any.
                                  Best of all they like the cut and dead bodies of other slugs, so a
                                  second patrol over the area will be successful.
                                  greetings from Klaus

                                  Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                  Artilleriestr. 6
                                  D-27283 Verden
                                  Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                  Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                  http://davyd.de/allmende
                                  Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                • Travis Philp
                                  They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants. Too much moisture is
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                    They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants.

                                    Too much moisture is impossible to avoid in the Frasier Valley except for freakishly dry seasons which are rare. We used only well rotted compost so that wasn't a factor...As for getting "some sun down there", I'm not sure what else I can do. The sun doesn't take my requests, and believe me I've asked for it. When slugs are in small numbers I let them do their thing but in a garden that is only two years old their population is too great. We knocked their population back and then once they stopped decimating our crops we left them alone. I think that taking 2 acres and leaving with them with about 78 isn't asking too much.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...>
                                    To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600
                                    Subject: [pfaf] Re:my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                    Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                                    too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                                    things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                                    and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                                    ---Marcia Cash
                                    Traveler in Thyme
                                    http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Travis Philp
                                    You re welcome. I don t know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so. ... From:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                      You're welcome. I don't know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Light2uToo@...
                                      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:47:41 EST
                                      Subject: [pfaf] Re: my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                      "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                      (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                                      << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                      and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                                      holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                      leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                                      That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                      around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                                      so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                      with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                      have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                      must be little creatures.

                                      I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                      beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                      Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                      something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                                      Lena


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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ingrid_glass@hotmail.com writes: sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                        In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                        ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                        sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                        ecosystem.



                                        I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                        in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                        I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                        are my best bet.

                                        Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                        population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                        Mary Christine



                                        **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                        products.
                                        (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Allmende Verden
                                        Hi! We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn t only attrack the slugs you ve got in your garden, it also attracks every slug in the
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi!
                                          We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                          only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                          every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                          them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                          The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                          the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                          And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.

                                          Greets from northern Germany,
                                          Alex

                                          Zitat von Light2uToo@...:

                                          > "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                          > (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                          > Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          > << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                          > and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                          > Position the
                                          > holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                          > leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                          >
                                          > That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                          > around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                          > it can get
                                          > so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                          > with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                          > have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                          > must be little creatures.
                                          >
                                          > I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                          > beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                          > Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                          > something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                          >
                                          > Lena
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                          > (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                          > products.
                                          > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >



                                          Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                          Artilleriestr. 6
                                          D-27283 Verden
                                          Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                          Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                          http://davyd.de/allmende
                                          Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                        • Allmende Verden
                                          I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer boarders of the bed
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                            I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we
                                            used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer
                                            boarders of the bed (hoping to catch the slugs coming from outside),
                                            though always slugs were caught in control-traps in the center. And in
                                            the end maybe we breeded beer-resistant slugs: this year when the
                                            population aroused enormous, the number of slugs in the traps didn´t.
                                            greets from Klaus


                                            > Hi!
                                            > We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                            > only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                            > every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                            > them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                            > The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                            > the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                            > And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.
                                            >
                                            > Greets from northern Germany,
                                            > Alex
                                            >
                                            > Zitat von Light2uToo@...:
                                            >
                                            >> "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                            >> (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                            >> Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                            >> wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >> << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                            >> and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                            >> Position the
                                            >> holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                            >> leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                            >>
                                            >> That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                            >> around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                            >> it can get
                                            >> so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                            >> with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                            >> have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a
                                            >> problem. They
                                            >> must be little creatures.
                                            >>
                                            >> I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                            >> beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                            >> Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                            >> something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                            >>
                                            >> Lena
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                            >> (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                            >> products.
                                            >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                            > Artilleriestr. 6
                                            > D-27283 Verden
                                            > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                            > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                            > http://davyd.de/allmende
                                            > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                            >
                                            >



                                            Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                            Artilleriestr. 6
                                            D-27283 Verden
                                            Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                            Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                            http://davyd.de/allmende
                                            Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                          • veronica giselle lescano
                                            Hi, If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                              Hi,
                                              If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest and which are used to lure the pest away from the actual crop), or intercropping (two crops are grown together, either intimately within the same row or in adjacent rows, when onions and carrots are grown together , the strong smell of the onions masks that of the carrots which are thus given protection from the carrot rrot fly, for example, some plants are known to be repellent to some invertebrates pests. Here in South America, as the soil is very humid, we usually use some of these techniques to protect crops from being damage by invertebrates,
                                              Greetings
                                              Veronica


                                              Infowolf1@... escribió:

                                              In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                              ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                              sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                              ecosystem.

                                              I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                              in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                              I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                              are my best bet.

                                              Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                              population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                              Mary Christine

                                              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                              products.
                                              (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                              ---------------------------------

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • vic_doyle
                                              ... balanced ... illegal ... Also, ... eaten. Birds ... of a rat ... results. ... Reply- Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jan 11, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                > ingrid_glass@... writes:
                                                >
                                                > sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a
                                                balanced
                                                > ecosystem.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are
                                                illegal
                                                > in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it.
                                                Also,
                                                > I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get
                                                eaten. Birds
                                                > are my best bet.
                                                >
                                                > Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough
                                                of a rat
                                                > population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the
                                                results.
                                                >
                                                > Mary Christine
                                                >
                                                Reply-

                                                Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                                Khaki Campbell ducks as they eat all slugs in the area and they lay
                                                lots of eggs, so go get ducking!!!
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