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Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

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  • Michael Porter
    I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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      I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native types of snails extinct] --but they are slug eating machines--Michael

      Juliano <juliano8@...> wrote: HI,

      This is my very first post here.

      I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
      permaculture garden where I live.
      It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
      order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
      to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
      Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

      I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
      vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
      organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
      keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

      But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
      first(?) MAJOR problem.

      I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
      emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
      find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

      So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Infowolf1@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, biker_muggridge@yahoo.co.uk writes: Hello Juliano Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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        In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
        biker_muggridge@... writes:

        Hello Juliano
        Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition,
        mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then
        penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but
        they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for
        'biological control of slugs.'




        What else do they kill?



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      • Geir Flatabø
        Where did you get them ?? I have also heard Boa slugs are snail eaters, ( as the Iberia slugs ), mostly eating the eggs. Geir Flatabø
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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          Where did you get them ??

          I have also heard Boa slugs are snail eaters, ( as the Iberia slugs ),
          mostly eating the eggs.

          Geir Flatabø

          2007/12/1, Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...>:
          > I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native types of snails extinct] --but they are slug eating machines--Michael
          >
          > Juliano <juliano8@...> wrote: HI,
          >
          > This is my very first post here.
          >
          > I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
          > permaculture garden where I live.
          > It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
          > order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
          > to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
          > Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.
          >
          > I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
          > vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
          > organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
          > keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!
          >
          > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
          > first(?) MAJOR problem.
          >
          > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
          > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
          > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
          >
          > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Geir Flatabø
          The nematodes have very limited effect, needing special humidity, and only working when the slugs are small... Geir Flatabø
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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            The nematodes have very limited effect,
            needing special humidity,
            and only working when the slugs are small...

            Geir Flatabø

            2007/12/1, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>:
            >
            > In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
            > biker_muggridge@... writes:
            >
            > Hello Juliano
            > Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition,
            > mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then
            > penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but
            > they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for
            > 'biological control of slugs.'
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > What else do they kill?
            >
            >
            >
            > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
            > products.
            > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Pat Meadows
            ... We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as well. I use a slug bait that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is based
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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              On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


              >
              > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
              > first(?) MAJOR problem.
              >
              > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
              > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
              > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
              >
              > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
              >

              We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
              well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
              based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
              works well.

              We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
              UK.

              Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
              garden center to inquire:
              http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

              Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
              you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
              can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
              to cope with ducks.

              Pat
              -- Northern Pennsylvania

              Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
              the one we have.
            • Travis Philp
              Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success with using mock beer traps. It was cheap, simple, highly effective, and you don't need to use real beer.

                Here's a recipe I found online at http://www.slugsandsalal.com/bookrevu/slugguide.html I have not used this exact recipe so I cannot vouch for its specific effectiveness but as long as you get that beer smell the slugs will make an exodus to your traps.

                According to Field Guide to the Slug some of the best slug traps using beer are made from plastic margarine tubs or sour cream type containers, "the depth of which makes it harder for satiated slugs to escape."

                Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil, leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level.

                It's the scent of malt and yeast that attracts the voracious creatures. Adding a dash of baker's yeast makes a beer trap more effective. For a less expensive effective substitute for the beer, a mixture of yeast, flour and water can be used. Field Guide to the Slug gives this recipe: "In lieu of beer, an equally potent attractant can be concocted from two tablespoons of flour, one-half teaspoon of brewer's yeast, and one teaspoon of sugar mixed in two cups of warm water."

                If your recipe doesn't work it may be too watery of a mixture. I also suspect humidity plays a part. Let me know how it goes.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Pat Meadows <pat@...>
                To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:39:52 -0500
                Subject: Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


                >
                > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                > first(?) MAJOR problem.
                >
                > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
                >
                > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
                >

                We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
                well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
                based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
                works well.

                We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
                UK.

                Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
                garden center to inquire:
                http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

                Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
                you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
                can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
                to cope with ducks.

                Pat
                -- Northern Pennsylvania

                Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                the one we have.
              • Infowolf1@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                  In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                  pat@... writes:

                  Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.


                  do they eat snails too?



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                  products.
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Infowolf1@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                    In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                    pat@... writes:

                    Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.




                    I understand moles eat snails and slugs too



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                  • Pat Meadows
                    ... I don t have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do. They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs. But they quack and maybe annoy
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                      On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:38:02 EST, you wrote:

                      >
                      >In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                      >pat@... writes:
                      >
                      >Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.
                      >
                      >
                      > do they eat snails too?

                      I don't have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do.
                      They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs.

                      But they quack and maybe annoy neighbors..... there's one type of duck
                      which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.

                      Pat
                      -- Northern Pennsylvania

                      Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                      the one we have.
                    • Traveler in Thyme
                      Slugs are not a problem they are a symptom of the real problem, which is too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep things
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                        Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                        too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                        things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                        and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                        ---Marcia Cash
                        Traveler in Thyme
                        http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Pat Meadows
                        ... This is not always true. Also, it s difficult to keep things drier in a rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks on end
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                          On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600, you wrote:

                          >Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                          >too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                          >things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                          >and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............
                          >

                          This is not always true. Also, it's difficult to keep things drier in a
                          rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks
                          on end of rain. (Thankfully, not every spring, but some springs we do.)

                          I've had slugs in containers that were sitting on a paved (cement) path. No
                          mulch. For that matter, no rotting vegetation either: I used all-purpose
                          soilless mix in those particular containers. Still lots of slugs.

                          Conditions differ from place to place - especially in gardening.

                          Pat

                          -- Northern Pennsylvania

                          Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                          the one we have.
                        • Clarke Editing Services
                          .. .. there s one type of duck ... That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy to keep. Doesn t need a pond either, just a little
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                            .. .. there's one type of duck
                            >
                            > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.
                            >
                            >
                            That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                            to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                            without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                          • Infowolf1@aol.com
                            In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@gol.com writes: That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                              In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@...
                              writes:


                              That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                              to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                              without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.





                              Where can I get them? Are they big enough cats would feel inhibited
                              about attacking them?



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                            • Griselda Mussett
                              Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my opinion) they
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                                Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                                their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                                opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                                parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                                round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                                shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.

                                On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:

                                > .. .. there's one type of duck
                                > >
                                > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                                > its name.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                                > easy
                                > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                                > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                                >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Niels Corfield
                                It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging holes in a leaky dam with your fingers. That said some precautions as well as
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                                  It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging
                                  holes in a leaky dam with your fingers.
                                  That said some precautions as well as preparations I think can give success.

                                  From experience with a grower near Hebdon Bridge, near Halifax, in the
                                  Yorkshire Pennines, where climate is something comparable, to say the
                                  least, much success has been gained by rearing plants in a nursery till
                                  quite large, on tables. We have extended this model and started to
                                  include shelving units as well as tables. And you can take further
                                  action by placing the legs of these tables in deep troughs of water
                                  and/or wrapping copper wire around the legs. Though be sure to keep the
                                  grass down around shelves especially as it can easily grow above above
                                  these first-line defences. We raised much of our brassica crop into 2l
                                  pots before planting-out and they have survived into maturity (though
                                  are still affected by slugs).
                                  Both in the nursery and in your plantings there is no substitute for
                                  healthy, vigorous plants. With well supplied fertile planting media the
                                  final objective, whether in your soil in containers in the nursery. I
                                  would recommend the widespread application of rock dust,
                                  http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_165_166&products_id=2546.
                                  It will be more economic to apply this product to growing media/composts
                                  in the nursery than in your beds. Though a one time high-level dose of
                                  rock dust is worthwhile, and if you operate a no-dig system, with
                                  widespread use of deep-rooting companion/fertility plants, you should
                                  never have to make again. Bearing in-mind though that the object is
                                  raise healthy plants (in a healthy soil) that well disposed to resist
                                  predation (by slugs or whatever). I remember well a garden I visited in
                                  Asturias, Spain, a very maritime, mountainous region with much rain and
                                  clay. The example that sticks in the mind is of one particularly mangy
                                  looking brassica bed, in dry panned earth. However what was most
                                  interesting about this bed was that only one of these plants was badly
                                  effected by slug attacks. So I like to think of these beasts as a little
                                  more discerning than perhaps they are painted.
                                  In addition to this there are nursery container technologies that
                                  promote healthy plants by encouraging root development and virtually
                                  eliminating the issue of circling roots. One brand is called
                                  Rootrainers, they are expensive but do represent a real advantage in the
                                  critical early months as well furnishing you with sturdy plants ready
                                  for the onslaught.
                                  There is always something going-on at the microscopic level that we are
                                  seldom sensitive to. With this in mind, I'd like to suggest some other
                                  techniques for building soil life, or "a healthy Soil Foodweb". Which
                                  some feel now, is the key to healthy plant systems. Much more than the
                                  more widely accepted soil chemistry model. That minerals and other plant
                                  "foods", and their availability, is governed much more by soil
                                  microbiology. So nurturing soil micro-organisms (MOs) (and culturing
                                  your own) is one route to improving soil and plant health.
                                  I offer two complementary methods to realise this aim, without a degree
                                  in biology and simple materials:
                                  _Effective Micro-organisms (EM)_:
                                  -laboratory-isolated and cultured complementary group of MOs easily
                                  multiplied and prepared for garden application at home
                                  -also very effective at processing pure kitchen waste (cooked food,
                                  meat, fish the lot)
                                  -a renewed interest in ferments, as an analogy for beneficial soil
                                  processes -NB no "bad smells" in the compost or in the soil.
                                  http://del.icio.us/entrailer/EM
                                  http://www.livingsoil.co.uk/learning/whatis.html
                                  _Actively Aerated Compost Teas_ ("Biobrews")
                                  -home-prepared soil-plant "feeds"
                                  -can be applied to leaves and soil
                                  Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/BioBrew
                                  Books: /"Teaming with Microbes" /by Jeff Lowenfels
                                  Yahoo group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/

                                  The other much overlooked and vitally important soil process is that of
                                  mycorrhizal fungi and their beneficial associations with plants. Their
                                  absence is almost guaranteed in a clean cultivated environment, yet they
                                  improve plant vigour significantly by extending root run, as much as
                                  100x; allowing further and more efficient gathering of nutrients and
                                  water by the plant, and in some cases by actually physically protecting
                                  the plant roots from attack, in this case by "snaring" parasitic
                                  nematodes while they forage in the root zone, looking to invade the
                                  roots thus weakening the plant. This phenomenon can apparently be seen
                                  in /Private Life of Plants/ BBC documentary series. Needless to say the
                                  action of these organisms will serve to weaken a plant making it more
                                  susceptible to slug damage.
                                  You can either make your own:
                                  http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Make%20your%20own%20Mycorrhizal
                                  http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets&id=106&dd=otherUploadeddocs/MycorrizhaMP08(E)_23.pdf
                                  http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets
                                  Or buy a product e.g.:
                                  http://www.fire1076.co.uk/rootgrowhome.php
                                  and then make your own.
                                  But remember they can't survive without living host plants (symbiosis).
                                  Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/mycorhizal

                                  The bottom-line here is that balanced ecosystems are not prone to the
                                  kind of explosive or destructive nature of slugs etc. The above measures
                                  promote health and balance in the garden.

                                  As for other techniques aimed directly at slugs: I have had good results
                                  with nematodes ("Nemaslug"). The main draw-back is the nematodes don't
                                  keep once the packet is open. One pack does 100 square metres. So my
                                  advice is to have enough plants to plant the whole area in one go. Or at
                                  least to have 100m2 worth of beds prepared for seeding. We had good
                                  success with direct seeding after nematode application also.
                                  I had satisfactory results with the organic slug pellets "Advanced Slug
                                  Killer". Best price B&Q. However they do end-up being an expensive
                                  solution as you will have to re-apply. They also seem not to be suitable
                                  for use with containers in the nursery, especially in the greenhouse, as
                                  they seem to act as a vector for fungi which seem to proliferate off
                                  them and all around the young seedlings, not good.
                                  Another option is copper tools. I have no experience of this directly
                                  but there seems some interest in these. They are expensive but from what
                                  I have seen, well-made.
                                  http://www.implementations.co.uk/
                                  The beer traps info provided by a previous respondent is useful. To this
                                  I would add, though perhaps implied earlier, that is very important to
                                  raise the level of the entrance holes above the soil. This will stop
                                  other creatures (beetle especially) from being drowned also. Also
                                  consider making the holes quite small, as I found a shrew in one of my
                                  traps last year.

                                  All these ideas, unfortunately, equate to more work and more learning.
                                  You might be lucky, one of these solutions used judiciously may give
                                  good results. Perhaps Nemaslug is the best candidate, but again you have
                                  to have things in place to make best use of its potential.

                                  Hope this helps.

                                  All the best,
                                  Niels



                                  My Bookmarks:
                                  http://del.icio.us/entrailer

                                  My Pics and Projects:
                                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/nielscorfield/
                                  http://picasaweb.google.com/mudguard

                                  Groups I Contribute to:
                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/polyculturepeople/
                                  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/leeds_permaculture_network/?yguid=243022692
                                  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/scythe




                                  Griselda Mussett wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                                  > their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                                  > opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                                  > parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                                  > round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                                  > shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.
                                  >
                                  > On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > .. .. there's one type of duck
                                  > > >
                                  > > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                                  > > its name.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                                  > > easy
                                  > > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                                  > > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Light2uToo@aol.com
                                  Travis Philp _trphilp@flemingc.on.ca _ (mailto:trphilp@flemingc.on.ca?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                    (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                                    << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                    and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                                    holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                    leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                                    That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                    around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                                    so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                    with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                    have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                    must be little creatures.

                                    I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                    beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                    Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                    something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                                    Lena


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                                  • ingrid glass
                                    Hi! I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn t have a problem with
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                      Hi!

                                      I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn't have a problem with slugs/snails eating their veg because they attracted sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced ecosystem. It had taken many years to achieve this - seems like a sustainable (permaculture) way to approach the problem to me, tho' more of a long term approach I guess. His website is : http://www.foxleas.com/

                                      Ingrid


                                      ________________________________

                                      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: juliano8@...
                                      Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 +0000
                                      Subject: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!







                                      HI,

                                      This is my very first post here.

                                      I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
                                      permaculture garden where I live.
                                      It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
                                      order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
                                      to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
                                      Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

                                      I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
                                      vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
                                      organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
                                      keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

                                      But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                                      first(?) MAJOR problem.

                                      I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                                      emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                                      find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

                                      So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.



                                      _________________________________________________________________
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                                    • Allmende Verden
                                      Hi everybody, here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                        Hi everybody,
                                        here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters
                                        are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                        another method is to keep the soil without mulch over winter (what is
                                        bad for both, slugs and soil).

                                        In our project we`re trying to use only materials and technics that,
                                        at least in theory, can be made availible by smal groups of people
                                        under any economical circumstances.
                                        We`re using slug-fences. The overal principle of these can be seen here
                                        http://www.slugfence.com/slug_info/fence_info/hauptteil_fence_info.html

                                        It is an inteligence-barrier. To come over it the slug would have to
                                        climb in the opposite direction it wants to go.
                                        We built a fence from regional oak-wood which can be seen on the
                                        bottom of http://davyd.de/allmende/fotos3.html

                                        A good lute might be birch bark tar.

                                        still you`ll have the slugs and their eggs inside the fenced area and
                                        it`ll be ongoing reinfected by mulch or something. For these problems
                                        we found collecting of the slugs successful.
                                        for that we`re baiting them with selected rests from the kitchen:
                                        brassica, fruit, avocado, onion... (experiment what yours like best!).
                                        The best time for collecting is in the dark, when dew has fallen.
                                        Worse is in rain and daylight. In the sunlight you won`t find any.
                                        Best of all they like the cut and dead bodies of other slugs, so a
                                        second patrol over the area will be successful.
                                        greetings from Klaus

                                        Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                        Artilleriestr. 6
                                        D-27283 Verden
                                        Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                        Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                        http://davyd.de/allmende
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                                      • Travis Philp
                                        They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants. Too much moisture is
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                          They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants.

                                          Too much moisture is impossible to avoid in the Frasier Valley except for freakishly dry seasons which are rare. We used only well rotted compost so that wasn't a factor...As for getting "some sun down there", I'm not sure what else I can do. The sun doesn't take my requests, and believe me I've asked for it. When slugs are in small numbers I let them do their thing but in a garden that is only two years old their population is too great. We knocked their population back and then once they stopped decimating our crops we left them alone. I think that taking 2 acres and leaving with them with about 78 isn't asking too much.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...>
                                          To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600
                                          Subject: [pfaf] Re:my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                          Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                                          too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                                          things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                                          and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                                          ---Marcia Cash
                                          Traveler in Thyme
                                          http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Travis Philp
                                          You re welcome. I don t know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so. ... From:
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                            You're welcome. I don't know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Light2uToo@...
                                            To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:47:41 EST
                                            Subject: [pfaf] Re: my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                            "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                            (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                                            << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                            and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                                            holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                            leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                                            That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                            around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                                            so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                            with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                            have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                            must be little creatures.

                                            I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                            beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                            Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                            something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                                            Lena


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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                            In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ingrid_glass@hotmail.com writes: sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
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                                              In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                              ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                              sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                              ecosystem.



                                              I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                              in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                              I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                              are my best bet.

                                              Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                              population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                              Mary Christine



                                              **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                              products.
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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Allmende Verden
                                              Hi! We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn t only attrack the slugs you ve got in your garden, it also attracks every slug in the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                                Hi!
                                                We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                                only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                                every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                                them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                                The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                                the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                                And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.

                                                Greets from northern Germany,
                                                Alex

                                                Zitat von Light2uToo@...:

                                                > "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                                > (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                                > Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                                > wrote:
                                                >
                                                > << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                                > and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                                > Position the
                                                > holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                                > leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                                >
                                                > That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                                > around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                                > it can get
                                                > so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                                > with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                                > have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                                > must be little creatures.
                                                >
                                                > I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                                > beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                                > Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                                > something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                                >
                                                > Lena
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                                > (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                                > products.
                                                > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >



                                                Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                Artilleriestr. 6
                                                D-27283 Verden
                                                Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                              • Allmende Verden
                                                I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer boarders of the bed
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                                  I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we
                                                  used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer
                                                  boarders of the bed (hoping to catch the slugs coming from outside),
                                                  though always slugs were caught in control-traps in the center. And in
                                                  the end maybe we breeded beer-resistant slugs: this year when the
                                                  population aroused enormous, the number of slugs in the traps didn´t.
                                                  greets from Klaus


                                                  > Hi!
                                                  > We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                                  > only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                                  > every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                                  > them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                                  > The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                                  > the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                                  > And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.
                                                  >
                                                  > Greets from northern Germany,
                                                  > Alex
                                                  >
                                                  > Zitat von Light2uToo@...:
                                                  >
                                                  >> "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                                  >> (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                                  >> Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                                  >> wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >> << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                                  >> and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                                  >> Position the
                                                  >> holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                                  >> leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                                  >> around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                                  >> it can get
                                                  >> so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                                  >> with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                                  >> have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a
                                                  >> problem. They
                                                  >> must be little creatures.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                                  >> beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                                  >> Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                                  >> something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Lena
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                                  >> (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                  >> products.
                                                  >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                  > Artilleriestr. 6
                                                  > D-27283 Verden
                                                  > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                  > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                  > http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                  > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                  Artilleriestr. 6
                                                  D-27283 Verden
                                                  Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                  Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                  http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                  Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                                • veronica giselle lescano
                                                  Hi, If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
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                                                    Hi,
                                                    If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest and which are used to lure the pest away from the actual crop), or intercropping (two crops are grown together, either intimately within the same row or in adjacent rows, when onions and carrots are grown together , the strong smell of the onions masks that of the carrots which are thus given protection from the carrot rrot fly, for example, some plants are known to be repellent to some invertebrates pests. Here in South America, as the soil is very humid, we usually use some of these techniques to protect crops from being damage by invertebrates,
                                                    Greetings
                                                    Veronica


                                                    Infowolf1@... escribió:

                                                    In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                    ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                                    sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                                    ecosystem.

                                                    I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                                    in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                                    I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                                    are my best bet.

                                                    Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                                    population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                                    Mary Christine

                                                    **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                    products.
                                                    (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                                  • vic_doyle
                                                    ... balanced ... illegal ... Also, ... eaten. Birds ... of a rat ... results. ... Reply- Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jan 11, 2008
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                                                      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                      > ingrid_glass@... writes:
                                                      >
                                                      > sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a
                                                      balanced
                                                      > ecosystem.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are
                                                      illegal
                                                      > in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it.
                                                      Also,
                                                      > I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get
                                                      eaten. Birds
                                                      > are my best bet.
                                                      >
                                                      > Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough
                                                      of a rat
                                                      > population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the
                                                      results.
                                                      >
                                                      > Mary Christine
                                                      >
                                                      Reply-

                                                      Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                                      Khaki Campbell ducks as they eat all slugs in the area and they lay
                                                      lots of eggs, so go get ducking!!!
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