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Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

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  • Michael Muggridge
    Hello Juliano Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition, mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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      Hello Juliano
      Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition, mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for 'biological control of slugs.'

      Good Luck and get the buggers.
      Mike
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Juliano
      To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:49 AM
      Subject: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!


      HI,

      This is my very first post here.

      I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
      permaculture garden where I live.
      It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
      order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
      to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
      Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

      I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
      vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
      organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
      keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

      But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
      first(?) MAJOR problem.

      I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
      emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
      find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

      So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Porter
      I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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        I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native types of snails extinct] --but they are slug eating machines--Michael

        Juliano <juliano8@...> wrote: HI,

        This is my very first post here.

        I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
        permaculture garden where I live.
        It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
        order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
        to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
        Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

        I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
        vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
        organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
        keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

        But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
        first(?) MAJOR problem.

        I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
        emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
        find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

        So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Infowolf1@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, biker_muggridge@yahoo.co.uk writes: Hello Juliano Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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          In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
          biker_muggridge@... writes:

          Hello Juliano
          Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition,
          mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then
          penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but
          they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for
          'biological control of slugs.'




          What else do they kill?



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Geir Flatabø
          Where did you get them ?? I have also heard Boa slugs are snail eaters, ( as the Iberia slugs ), mostly eating the eggs. Geir Flatabø
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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            Where did you get them ??

            I have also heard Boa slugs are snail eaters, ( as the Iberia slugs ),
            mostly eating the eggs.

            Geir Flatabø

            2007/12/1, Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...>:
            > I completely solved my slug and snail problem by using Rosy Predator Snail, if it is OK to use them where you are I would try them, --[but they can make native types of snails extinct] --but they are slug eating machines--Michael
            >
            > Juliano <juliano8@...> wrote: HI,
            >
            > This is my very first post here.
            >
            > I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
            > permaculture garden where I live.
            > It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
            > order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
            > to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
            > Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.
            >
            > I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
            > vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
            > organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
            > keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!
            >
            > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
            > first(?) MAJOR problem.
            >
            > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
            > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
            > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
            >
            > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Geir Flatabø
            The nematodes have very limited effect, needing special humidity, and only working when the slugs are small... Geir Flatabø
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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              The nematodes have very limited effect,
              needing special humidity,
              and only working when the slugs are small...

              Geir Flatabø

              2007/12/1, Infowolf1@... <Infowolf1@...>:
              >
              > In a message dated 12/1/2007 3:51:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
              > biker_muggridge@... writes:
              >
              > Hello Juliano
              > Have you never heard of Nematodes? You can buy them in a dried condition,
              > mix them with water and water onto your garden. These little darlings then
              > penetrate the body of the slugs and KILL them. I'm not sure where you live but
              > they are very easy to obtain in England, by mail order. Try doing a search for
              > 'biological control of slugs.'
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > What else do they kill?
              >
              >
              >
              > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
              > products.
              > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Pat Meadows
              ... We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as well. I use a slug bait that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is based
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


                >
                > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                > first(?) MAJOR problem.
                >
                > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
                >
                > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
                >

                We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
                well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
                based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
                works well.

                We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
                UK.

                Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
                garden center to inquire:
                http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

                Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
                you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
                can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
                to cope with ducks.

                Pat
                -- Northern Pennsylvania

                Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                the one we have.
              • Travis Philp
                Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                  Slugs eh? I had a problem with slugs out in BC. We were losing whole brassica and squash sections of our two acre garden to slug damage.We had huge success with using mock beer traps. It was cheap, simple, highly effective, and you don't need to use real beer.

                  Here's a recipe I found online at http://www.slugsandsalal.com/bookrevu/slugguide.html I have not used this exact recipe so I cannot vouch for its specific effectiveness but as long as you get that beer smell the slugs will make an exodus to your traps.

                  According to Field Guide to the Slug some of the best slug traps using beer are made from plastic margarine tubs or sour cream type containers, "the depth of which makes it harder for satiated slugs to escape."

                  Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil, leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level.

                  It's the scent of malt and yeast that attracts the voracious creatures. Adding a dash of baker's yeast makes a beer trap more effective. For a less expensive effective substitute for the beer, a mixture of yeast, flour and water can be used. Field Guide to the Slug gives this recipe: "In lieu of beer, an equally potent attractant can be concocted from two tablespoons of flour, one-half teaspoon of brewer's yeast, and one teaspoon of sugar mixed in two cups of warm water."

                  If your recipe doesn't work it may be too watery of a mixture. I also suspect humidity plays a part. Let me know how it goes.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Pat Meadows <pat@...>
                  To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:39:52 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                  On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 -0000, you wrote:


                  >
                  > But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                  > first(?) MAJOR problem.
                  >
                  > I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                  > emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                  > find one. because this is a question I would ask him.
                  >
                  > So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.
                  >

                  We have cool damp conditions most summers and a major slug/snail problem as
                  well. I use a 'slug bait' that is non-poisonous to anything else; it is
                  based on iron phosphate which decomposes harmlessly into the soil. It
                  works well.

                  We're in the USA, but I would think something similar is available in the
                  UK.

                  Here is the website, in case you want to take the description to a local
                  garden center to inquire:
                  http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=2111&ss=Es-Car-Go

                  Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all. But
                  you may not want to have ducks.... I'd like to have ducks; we don't feel we
                  can deal with anything else at present, but maybe someday we will feel able
                  to cope with ducks.

                  Pat
                  -- Northern Pennsylvania

                  Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                  the one we have.
                • Infowolf1@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                    In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                    pat@... writes:

                    Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.


                    do they eat snails too?



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                    products.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                    In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pat@meadows.pair.com writes: Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                      In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                      pat@... writes:

                      Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.




                      I understand moles eat snails and slugs too



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                    • Pat Meadows
                      ... I don t have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do. They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs. But they quack and maybe annoy
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                        On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:38:02 EST, you wrote:

                        >
                        >In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:40:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                        >pat@... writes:
                        >
                        >Also, I am told that ducks are wonderful for slugs; they eat them all.
                        >
                        >
                        > do they eat snails too?

                        I don't have personal experience with them, but I have read that they do.
                        They also lay eggs. :) Edible eggs.

                        But they quack and maybe annoy neighbors..... there's one type of duck
                        which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.

                        Pat
                        -- Northern Pennsylvania

                        Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                        the one we have.
                      • Traveler in Thyme
                        Slugs are not a problem they are a symptom of the real problem, which is too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep things
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                          Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                          too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                          things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                          and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                          ---Marcia Cash
                          Traveler in Thyme
                          http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Pat Meadows
                          ... This is not always true. Also, it s difficult to keep things drier in a rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks on end
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                            On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600, you wrote:

                            >Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                            >too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                            >things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                            >and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............
                            >

                            This is not always true. Also, it's difficult to keep things drier in a
                            rainy place, such as where we live. Some springs, we have weeks and weeks
                            on end of rain. (Thankfully, not every spring, but some springs we do.)

                            I've had slugs in containers that were sitting on a paved (cement) path. No
                            mulch. For that matter, no rotting vegetation either: I used all-purpose
                            soilless mix in those particular containers. Still lots of slugs.

                            Conditions differ from place to place - especially in gardening.

                            Pat

                            -- Northern Pennsylvania

                            Good planets are hard to find; let's take care of
                            the one we have.
                          • Clarke Editing Services
                            .. .. there s one type of duck ... That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy to keep. Doesn t need a pond either, just a little
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                              .. .. there's one type of duck
                              >
                              > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember its name.
                              >
                              >
                              That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                              to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                              without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                            • Infowolf1@aol.com
                              In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@gol.com writes: That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 1, 2007
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                                In a message dated 12/1/2007 5:45:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ces@...
                                writes:


                                That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very easy
                                to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                                without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.





                                Where can I get them? Are they big enough cats would feel inhibited
                                about attacking them?



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                              • Griselda Mussett
                                Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my opinion) they
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                                  Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                                  their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                                  opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                                  parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                                  round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                                  shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.

                                  On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:

                                  > .. .. there's one type of duck
                                  > >
                                  > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                                  > its name.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                                  > easy
                                  > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                                  > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Niels Corfield
                                  It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging holes in a leaky dam with your fingers. That said some precautions as well as
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
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                                    It will have to be a multi-pronged assault unfortunately. Like plugging
                                    holes in a leaky dam with your fingers.
                                    That said some precautions as well as preparations I think can give success.

                                    From experience with a grower near Hebdon Bridge, near Halifax, in the
                                    Yorkshire Pennines, where climate is something comparable, to say the
                                    least, much success has been gained by rearing plants in a nursery till
                                    quite large, on tables. We have extended this model and started to
                                    include shelving units as well as tables. And you can take further
                                    action by placing the legs of these tables in deep troughs of water
                                    and/or wrapping copper wire around the legs. Though be sure to keep the
                                    grass down around shelves especially as it can easily grow above above
                                    these first-line defences. We raised much of our brassica crop into 2l
                                    pots before planting-out and they have survived into maturity (though
                                    are still affected by slugs).
                                    Both in the nursery and in your plantings there is no substitute for
                                    healthy, vigorous plants. With well supplied fertile planting media the
                                    final objective, whether in your soil in containers in the nursery. I
                                    would recommend the widespread application of rock dust,
                                    http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_165_166&products_id=2546.
                                    It will be more economic to apply this product to growing media/composts
                                    in the nursery than in your beds. Though a one time high-level dose of
                                    rock dust is worthwhile, and if you operate a no-dig system, with
                                    widespread use of deep-rooting companion/fertility plants, you should
                                    never have to make again. Bearing in-mind though that the object is
                                    raise healthy plants (in a healthy soil) that well disposed to resist
                                    predation (by slugs or whatever). I remember well a garden I visited in
                                    Asturias, Spain, a very maritime, mountainous region with much rain and
                                    clay. The example that sticks in the mind is of one particularly mangy
                                    looking brassica bed, in dry panned earth. However what was most
                                    interesting about this bed was that only one of these plants was badly
                                    effected by slug attacks. So I like to think of these beasts as a little
                                    more discerning than perhaps they are painted.
                                    In addition to this there are nursery container technologies that
                                    promote healthy plants by encouraging root development and virtually
                                    eliminating the issue of circling roots. One brand is called
                                    Rootrainers, they are expensive but do represent a real advantage in the
                                    critical early months as well furnishing you with sturdy plants ready
                                    for the onslaught.
                                    There is always something going-on at the microscopic level that we are
                                    seldom sensitive to. With this in mind, I'd like to suggest some other
                                    techniques for building soil life, or "a healthy Soil Foodweb". Which
                                    some feel now, is the key to healthy plant systems. Much more than the
                                    more widely accepted soil chemistry model. That minerals and other plant
                                    "foods", and their availability, is governed much more by soil
                                    microbiology. So nurturing soil micro-organisms (MOs) (and culturing
                                    your own) is one route to improving soil and plant health.
                                    I offer two complementary methods to realise this aim, without a degree
                                    in biology and simple materials:
                                    _Effective Micro-organisms (EM)_:
                                    -laboratory-isolated and cultured complementary group of MOs easily
                                    multiplied and prepared for garden application at home
                                    -also very effective at processing pure kitchen waste (cooked food,
                                    meat, fish the lot)
                                    -a renewed interest in ferments, as an analogy for beneficial soil
                                    processes -NB no "bad smells" in the compost or in the soil.
                                    http://del.icio.us/entrailer/EM
                                    http://www.livingsoil.co.uk/learning/whatis.html
                                    _Actively Aerated Compost Teas_ ("Biobrews")
                                    -home-prepared soil-plant "feeds"
                                    -can be applied to leaves and soil
                                    Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/BioBrew
                                    Books: /"Teaming with Microbes" /by Jeff Lowenfels
                                    Yahoo group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/

                                    The other much overlooked and vitally important soil process is that of
                                    mycorrhizal fungi and their beneficial associations with plants. Their
                                    absence is almost guaranteed in a clean cultivated environment, yet they
                                    improve plant vigour significantly by extending root run, as much as
                                    100x; allowing further and more efficient gathering of nutrients and
                                    water by the plant, and in some cases by actually physically protecting
                                    the plant roots from attack, in this case by "snaring" parasitic
                                    nematodes while they forage in the root zone, looking to invade the
                                    roots thus weakening the plant. This phenomenon can apparently be seen
                                    in /Private Life of Plants/ BBC documentary series. Needless to say the
                                    action of these organisms will serve to weaken a plant making it more
                                    susceptible to slug damage.
                                    You can either make your own:
                                    http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Make%20your%20own%20Mycorrhizal
                                    http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets&id=106&dd=otherUploadeddocs/MycorrizhaMP08(E)_23.pdf
                                    http://www.sunseed.org.uk/downloads.asp?sid=Information%20Leaflets
                                    Or buy a product e.g.:
                                    http://www.fire1076.co.uk/rootgrowhome.php
                                    and then make your own.
                                    But remember they can't survive without living host plants (symbiosis).
                                    Links: http://del.icio.us/entrailer/mycorhizal

                                    The bottom-line here is that balanced ecosystems are not prone to the
                                    kind of explosive or destructive nature of slugs etc. The above measures
                                    promote health and balance in the garden.

                                    As for other techniques aimed directly at slugs: I have had good results
                                    with nematodes ("Nemaslug"). The main draw-back is the nematodes don't
                                    keep once the packet is open. One pack does 100 square metres. So my
                                    advice is to have enough plants to plant the whole area in one go. Or at
                                    least to have 100m2 worth of beds prepared for seeding. We had good
                                    success with direct seeding after nematode application also.
                                    I had satisfactory results with the organic slug pellets "Advanced Slug
                                    Killer". Best price B&Q. However they do end-up being an expensive
                                    solution as you will have to re-apply. They also seem not to be suitable
                                    for use with containers in the nursery, especially in the greenhouse, as
                                    they seem to act as a vector for fungi which seem to proliferate off
                                    them and all around the young seedlings, not good.
                                    Another option is copper tools. I have no experience of this directly
                                    but there seems some interest in these. They are expensive but from what
                                    I have seen, well-made.
                                    http://www.implementations.co.uk/
                                    The beer traps info provided by a previous respondent is useful. To this
                                    I would add, though perhaps implied earlier, that is very important to
                                    raise the level of the entrance holes above the soil. This will stop
                                    other creatures (beetle especially) from being drowned also. Also
                                    consider making the holes quite small, as I found a shrew in one of my
                                    traps last year.

                                    All these ideas, unfortunately, equate to more work and more learning.
                                    You might be lucky, one of these solutions used judiciously may give
                                    good results. Perhaps Nemaslug is the best candidate, but again you have
                                    to have things in place to make best use of its potential.

                                    Hope this helps.

                                    All the best,
                                    Niels



                                    My Bookmarks:
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                                    My Pics and Projects:
                                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nielscorfield/
                                    http://picasaweb.google.com/mudguard

                                    Groups I Contribute to:
                                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/polyculturepeople/
                                    http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/leeds_permaculture_network/?yguid=243022692
                                    http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/scythe




                                    Griselda Mussett wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ducks also eat your precious plants, or walk on them, and they leave
                                    > their slippery and smelly mess around too, so for a small garden (in my
                                    > opinion) they would be as much of a menace as slugs. We had them at my
                                    > parents' smallholding when I was a kid and I agree they like staying
                                    > round the house. So it's very easy to walk the mess inside on your own
                                    > shoes. It would be sad to see them penned up all the time.
                                    >
                                    > On 1 Dec 2007, at 18:17, Clarke Editing Services wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > .. .. there's one type of duck
                                    > > >
                                    > > > which sort of hisses rather than quacking, but I cannot remember
                                    > > its name.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > That would be the Muscovy -- a South American tree waterfowl. Very
                                    > > easy
                                    > > to keep. Doesn't need a pond either, just a little pool of water. Even
                                    > > without clipping their wings they tend to stay around your house.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Light2uToo@aol.com
                                    Travis Philp _trphilp@flemingc.on.ca _ (mailto:trphilp@flemingc.on.ca?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                      (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                                      << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                      and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                                      holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                      leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                                      That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                      around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                                      so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                      with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                      have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                      must be little creatures.

                                      I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                      beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                      Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                      something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                                      Lena


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                                    • ingrid glass
                                      Hi! I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn t have a problem with
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Hi!

                                        I visited a wildlife friendly garden last year, run by Marc Carlton & his partner in SE London, and I remember him saying they didn't have a problem with slugs/snails eating their veg because they attracted sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced ecosystem. It had taken many years to achieve this - seems like a sustainable (permaculture) way to approach the problem to me, tho' more of a long term approach I guess. His website is : http://www.foxleas.com/

                                        Ingrid


                                        ________________________________

                                        To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: juliano8@...
                                        Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:49:35 +0000
                                        Subject: [pfaf] my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!







                                        HI,

                                        This is my very first post here.

                                        I am TRYING to get as much inspiration as possible to try and create a
                                        permaculture garden where I live.
                                        It is a small garden and quite odd. But before I go off on a tangent, in
                                        order for me to even BEGIN the design--as it were--i need to know what
                                        to do about the slug problem we have here in Northwest UK, or at least I have.
                                        Manchester---well hwere I am anyway.

                                        I cannot tell you the amount of plants we have bought--not
                                        vegetables--that have simply become slug food. I have kept the garden
                                        organic, but in doing so kind of gave in to the slug problem by just
                                        keeping the plants they dont seem to eat!

                                        But...if I want to create an edible garden, I really need help with this
                                        first(?) MAJOR problem.

                                        I bought Michael Guerra's book Edible Container Garden, and before
                                        emailing you, I tried to find if he has a contact address (?) but cannot
                                        find one. because this is a question I would ask him.

                                        So I am looking for an idea or _IDEAS_ how to tackle this problem of slugs.



                                        _________________________________________________________________
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                                      • Allmende Verden
                                        Hi everybody, here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi everybody,
                                          here in Northgermany we get growing problems with slugs as the winters
                                          are getting warmer and fewer of the eggs are destroyed by frosts. So
                                          another method is to keep the soil without mulch over winter (what is
                                          bad for both, slugs and soil).

                                          In our project we`re trying to use only materials and technics that,
                                          at least in theory, can be made availible by smal groups of people
                                          under any economical circumstances.
                                          We`re using slug-fences. The overal principle of these can be seen here
                                          http://www.slugfence.com/slug_info/fence_info/hauptteil_fence_info.html

                                          It is an inteligence-barrier. To come over it the slug would have to
                                          climb in the opposite direction it wants to go.
                                          We built a fence from regional oak-wood which can be seen on the
                                          bottom of http://davyd.de/allmende/fotos3.html

                                          A good lute might be birch bark tar.

                                          still you`ll have the slugs and their eggs inside the fenced area and
                                          it`ll be ongoing reinfected by mulch or something. For these problems
                                          we found collecting of the slugs successful.
                                          for that we`re baiting them with selected rests from the kitchen:
                                          brassica, fruit, avocado, onion... (experiment what yours like best!).
                                          The best time for collecting is in the dark, when dew has fallen.
                                          Worse is in rain and daylight. In the sunlight you won`t find any.
                                          Best of all they like the cut and dead bodies of other slugs, so a
                                          second patrol over the area will be successful.
                                          greetings from Klaus

                                          Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                          Artilleriestr. 6
                                          D-27283 Verden
                                          Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                          Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                          http://davyd.de/allmende
                                          Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                        • Travis Philp
                                          They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants. Too much moisture is
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            They themselves are not a problem but I had a problem with them. They produce a problem for me when they wipe out whole beds of plants.

                                            Too much moisture is impossible to avoid in the Frasier Valley except for freakishly dry seasons which are rare. We used only well rotted compost so that wasn't a factor...As for getting "some sun down there", I'm not sure what else I can do. The sun doesn't take my requests, and believe me I've asked for it. When slugs are in small numbers I let them do their thing but in a garden that is only two years old their population is too great. We knocked their population back and then once they stopped decimating our crops we left them alone. I think that taking 2 acres and leaving with them with about 78 isn't asking too much.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: "Traveler in Thyme" <marcia@...>
                                            To: <pfaf@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:13:10 -0600
                                            Subject: [pfaf] Re:my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                            Slugs are not a "problem" they are a symptom of the real problem, which is
                                            too much moisture and too much raw, rotting vegetation in your soil. Keep
                                            things a bit drier, compost your material more completely before mulching,
                                            and get some sun down there, and the slugs will go away.............


                                            ---Marcia Cash
                                            Traveler in Thyme
                                            http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Travis Philp
                                            You re welcome. I don t know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so. ... From:
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              You're welcome. I don't know if I mentioned the spacing of the traps. I cant say what is optimal but I put them every 15 feet or so.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Light2uToo@...
                                              To: pfaf@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:47:41 EST
                                              Subject: [pfaf] Re: my HUUUUGE problem with S L U G S. Help!!!

                                              "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                              (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject= Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!) wrote:

                                              << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                              and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer. Position the
                                              holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                              leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>

                                              That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                              around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that it can get
                                              so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                              with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                              have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                              must be little creatures.

                                              I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                              beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                              Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                              something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.

                                              Lena


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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                              In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ingrid_glass@hotmail.com writes: sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 3, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                                sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                                ecosystem.



                                                I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                                in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                                I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                                are my best bet.

                                                Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                                population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                                Mary Christine



                                                **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                products.
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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Allmende Verden
                                                Hi! We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn t only attrack the slugs you ve got in your garden, it also attracks every slug in the
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi!
                                                  We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                                  only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                                  every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                                  them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                                  The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                                  the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                                  And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.

                                                  Greets from northern Germany,
                                                  Alex

                                                  Zitat von Light2uToo@...:

                                                  > "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                                  > (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                                  > Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                                  > and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                                  > Position the
                                                  > holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                                  > leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                                  >
                                                  > That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                                  > around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                                  > it can get
                                                  > so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                                  > with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                                  > have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a problem. They
                                                  > must be little creatures.
                                                  >
                                                  > I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                                  > beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                                  > Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                                  > something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                                  >
                                                  > Lena
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                                  > (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                  > products.
                                                  > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                  Artilleriestr. 6
                                                  D-27283 Verden
                                                  Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                  Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                  http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                  Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                                • Allmende Verden
                                                  I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer boarders of the bed
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I´d support what Alex says. Before we startet baiting/collecting we
                                                    used beertraps for years in a way that they where always at the outer
                                                    boarders of the bed (hoping to catch the slugs coming from outside),
                                                    though always slugs were caught in control-traps in the center. And in
                                                    the end maybe we breeded beer-resistant slugs: this year when the
                                                    population aroused enormous, the number of slugs in the traps didn´t.
                                                    greets from Klaus


                                                    > Hi!
                                                    > We do not have good experiences in using beer traps. The beer doesn't
                                                    > only attrack the slugs you've got in your garden, it also attracks
                                                    > every slug in the neighbourhood. So you are always going on catching
                                                    > them, while the next ones are arriving.
                                                    > The other thing I did not like was that not only slugs got drowned in
                                                    > the beer, but also flys, worms, beetles, and other small animals.
                                                    > And that happened although the hole of the traps was above soil level.
                                                    >
                                                    > Greets from northern Germany,
                                                    > Alex
                                                    >
                                                    > Zitat von Light2uToo@...:
                                                    >
                                                    >> "Travis Philp" _trphilp@... _
                                                    >> (mailto:trphilp@...?Subject=
                                                    >> Re:%20my%20HUUUUGE%20problem%20with%20S%20L%20U%20G%20S.%20Help!!!)
                                                    >> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >> << Cut a few one-inch square or triangular doors into the container sides
                                                    >> and use the lid to deflect rain and prevent dilution of the beer.
                                                    >> Position the
                                                    >> holes just below the container rim and dig the container into the soil,
                                                    >> leaving the cut holes at or just slightly above soil level. >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> That was so well-explained. Thank you! We have a lot of trouble with slugs
                                                    >> around here, which is southwestern Oklahoma. The odd thing is that
                                                    >> it can get
                                                    >> so, so hot and dry, especially in the summers, and yet we'll have problems
                                                    >> with slugs. I only use plants that are fairly drought resistant, because we
                                                    >> have to ration water sometimes. And still, the slugs will be a
                                                    >> problem. They
                                                    >> must be little creatures.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> I think the idea of killing them with beer is a really good one, even mock
                                                    >> beer. Somehow it seems more humane than most other ways I've heard of.
                                                    >> Probably the most humane way would be to quickly smash them with a shoe or
                                                    >> something, but I can't deal with those sluggy guts. Bleecchhh.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Lena
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> _Click to Donate - Free donations to your favorite causes! _
                                                    >> (http://www.care2.com/click2donate/)
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                    >> products.
                                                    >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                    > Artilleriestr. 6
                                                    > D-27283 Verden
                                                    > Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                    > Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                    > http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                    > Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                                    >
                                                    >



                                                    Allmende e.V.-Gemeinschaftlicher Permakulturgarten für Verden
                                                    Artilleriestr. 6
                                                    D-27283 Verden
                                                    Tel (+49) 4231- 90 50 30
                                                    Mobil (+49) 176- 23172036
                                                    http://davyd.de/allmende
                                                    Wir bieten Praktika und freiwilliges ökologisches Jahr.
                                                  • veronica giselle lescano
                                                    Hi, If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Dec 4, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi,
                                                      If releasing the slug´s natural predator do not work, perhaps you can try with trap crops ( these are plants which are known to be attractive to the pest and which are used to lure the pest away from the actual crop), or intercropping (two crops are grown together, either intimately within the same row or in adjacent rows, when onions and carrots are grown together , the strong smell of the onions masks that of the carrots which are thus given protection from the carrot rrot fly, for example, some plants are known to be repellent to some invertebrates pests. Here in South America, as the soil is very humid, we usually use some of these techniques to protect crops from being damage by invertebrates,
                                                      Greetings
                                                      Veronica


                                                      Infowolf1@... escribió:

                                                      In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                      ingrid_glass@... writes:

                                                      sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a balanced
                                                      ecosystem.

                                                      I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are illegal
                                                      in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it. Also,
                                                      I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get eaten. Birds
                                                      are my best bet.

                                                      Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough of a rat
                                                      population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the results.

                                                      Mary Christine

                                                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                                                      products.
                                                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • vic_doyle
                                                      ... balanced ... illegal ... Also, ... eaten. Birds ... of a rat ... results. ... Reply- Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jan 11, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > In a message dated 12/3/2007 6:10:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                                        > ingrid_glass@... writes:
                                                        >
                                                        > sufficient predators (birds/frogs/hedgehogs etc) for there to be a
                                                        balanced
                                                        > ecosystem.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I would love to have a cute little hedgehog, but they are
                                                        illegal
                                                        > in California and my cats might get hurt pouncing on it.
                                                        Also,
                                                        > I might run over it in the driveway. Frogs would get
                                                        eaten. Birds
                                                        > are my best bet.
                                                        >
                                                        > Do you know if rats eat slugs and snails? there is enough
                                                        of a rat
                                                        > population here in the ivy to support owls who barf the
                                                        results.
                                                        >
                                                        > Mary Christine
                                                        >
                                                        Reply-

                                                        Hi Im new here, but I can recommend that you manage a small flock of
                                                        Khaki Campbell ducks as they eat all slugs in the area and they lay
                                                        lots of eggs, so go get ducking!!!
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