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Re: [pfaf] Wikipedia's list of medicinal herbs

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  • Donald Sunday
    thanks for the information!It s really helpfull. Richard Morris wrote: A bit of a dispute is emerging on wikipedia s list of
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
      thanks for the information!It's really helpfull.

      Richard Morris <mailinglists@...> wrote: A bit of a dispute is emerging on wikipedia's list of medicinal herbs,
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicinal_herbs
      A few people with a rather hard science atitude are trying to trash
      the list, claiming its just unscientific fringe material.

      Help could be needed in fleshing out the list finding good references
      for the medicinal uses of the plants. Finding good authoritive
      references could be really helpful.






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    • Infowolf1@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/16/2007 2:37:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, griselda1@btopenworld.com writes: The article I have here has lots more detail if you want
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
        In a message dated 7/16/2007 2:37:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
        griselda1@... writes:

        The article I have here has lots more detail if you want it.


        Please post a copy here, and send me a copy
        Infowolf1 AT aol.com







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      • Martin Naylor
        It is also true that prescription medicine is the biggest killer in America 2 years ago 700.000 people died from legal drugs [prescription medicine], 60 % of
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
          It is also true that prescription medicine is the biggest killer in America 2 years ago 700.000 people died from legal drugs [prescription medicine], 60 % of prescription drugs have the essential ingredient derived from plant sources
          A lot of herbs don't have scientific proof because there hasn't been any investigations done
          also this is about chemical gangs like Monsanto controlling plans and seeds rights
          Martin


          "Business men drink my wine Proud men dig my earth"

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          To which a scoundrel clings.
          Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
          Steal a lot and they make you king.
          There's only one step down from here, baby,
          It's called the land of permanent bliss.
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        • Infowolf1@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/17/2007 5:42:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, martinwnaylor@yahoo.com.au writes: It is also true that prescription medicine is the biggest
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
            In a message dated 7/17/2007 5:42:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            martinwnaylor@... writes:

            It is also true that prescription medicine is the biggest killer in America
            2 years ago 700.000 people died from legal drugs [prescription medicine], 60
            % of prescription drugs have the essential ingredient derived from plant
            sources
            A lot of herbs don't have scientific proof because there hasn't been any
            investigations done
            also this is about chemical gangs like Monsanto controlling plans and seeds
            rights
            Martin




            which doesn't make herbs safe. You have to handle some of them carefully,
            but the most dangerous ones don't usually turn up in health food
            stores
            any more anyway.

            i think it is not the prescription meds so much as the mixing of
            them with
            things, that the doctor is not told about, or that the
            pharmacist is not told
            about, and these stupid people think if it is OTC it is
            harmless, and use it
            with prescription meds.

            Or with some herbs.

            Infowolf1



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          • icculus2000@yahoo.com
            Hello everyone, This thread opens up a huge topic relating to economic manipulation of medical practices. Drug companies cannot sell drugs unless they own
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
              Hello everyone,

              This thread opens up a huge topic relating to economic manipulation of medical practices.

              Drug companies cannot sell 'drugs' unless they own them. They cannot own them unless they are patented. A whole plant, herb, tree, mushroom, etc. in its natural form (unadulterated by man) cannot be patented because it is OF THE EARTH, not of a company's or individual's creating (see the neem issue). It has many components.

              This is where we come into the isolation of single constituents - which can be patented, due largely to Henry Kissinger, I believe, and the commodities market schemers.
              The drug company will not make as much money if it uses the WHOLE herb (or root, leaf, stem, mushroom, etc) because they do not OWN it. However, there is ample evidence pointing to the benefits of using the whole herb versus isolated constituents.

              Now companies can isolate constituents or compounds and synthesize them, cutting the earth and the grower out of the loop (this is without even getting into genetically engineered products - they can patent those, too). Then they can sell them. As soon as food items and drugs became part of the buying and selling game, the whole hypocratic oath went out the window, really. Think about it.. The doctor could prescribe an herb or other natural remedy for your condition, but the drug company is going to pay him to prescribe "x" amount of Ritalin or Paxil by the end of the year; so that's what you're getting.

              Oh, I know, there are a thousand stories about how little Jimmy was saved by the magical medicine, but look at who is doing the storytelling - at least in the mainstream.

              This leads us neatly back to Rich's request (you thought I had lost the plot, didn't you Rich?) - we have returned like a cycle on the land to the dire need for actual references to cases in which medicinal herbs worked and were documented in some sort of record.

              Please send anything you have in this theme to Rich at PFAF.
              (it wouldn't hurt to carbon copy us by clicking "reply to group" so that other people can hear about it.)

              I must bring up the fact that our present pharmacopia of drugs in the west comes predominantly from plants, many of them originating in the rainforest. But lets think of aspirin for a moment (that's paracetamol for you in the UK, I think). Doesn't Aspirin derive from the bark of willow roots? Surely there are numerous instances like this on record?
              Let's find them.

              I have to mention here that Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and Traditional Indian Medicine (Ayurveda) would also likely be prime sources. Thousands of years of practice has to reveal empirical evidence. Look at Tulsi, for instance.. Holy Basil (Ocimum sanctum) is one of the most prescribed whole-plant extracts in Ayurveda - Aswagandha (Withania somniferum) too. Both show evidence of being very safe stress relievers and adaptogenic herbs, among other uses.

              The trouble with this whole debate is that the traditional western medical community doesn't recognise anyone's evidence except their own. How do you prove the infallibility of the pope to a buddhist? Or explain life after death to a nihilist?

              Some of the writers in this thread suggest separating the listings of information in order to define the medical from the folkloric..
              Well i say that would be playing right in to the hands of the western critics of plant medicine - they'll claim we have backed off from our stance that medicinal herbs are a viable alternative to "drugs."

              I'll leave the thread there, because I need sleep.

              Peace and love,

              Steve


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            • Infowolf1@aol.com
              In a message dated 7/17/2007 7:27:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, icculus2000@yahoo.com writes: Drug companies cannot sell drugs unless they own them. They
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 17, 2007
                In a message dated 7/17/2007 7:27:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                icculus2000@... writes:

                Drug companies cannot sell 'drugs' unless they own them. They cannot own
                them unless they are patented. A whole plant, herb, tree, mushroom, etc. in its
                natural form (unadulterated by man) cannot be patented because it is OF THE
                EARTH, not of a company's or individual's creating (see the neem issue). It
                has many components.




                Actually, they can if they discover it and some are trying.



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              • Rick van Rein
                Hi, ... But on THIS list...?!? -Rick
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 18, 2007
                  Hi,

                  > This thread opens up a huge topic relating to economic manipulation of medical practices.

                  But on THIS list...?!?

                  -Rick
                • Martin Naylor
                  sorry mate but i am am stuck with a great person and quiting and again ProfesorRon Nielson The Little GREEN HANDBOOK [pg 40 ] The annual global market value
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 18, 2007
                    sorry mate
                    but i am am stuck with a great person
                    and quiting and again

                    ProfesorRon Nielson

                    The Little GREEN HANDBOOK [pg 40 ]

                    The annual global market value of pharmaceutical products derived from the genetics's bank of of the earth's biodiversity has been $75 billion and $150 billion
                    the annual global market for herbal medicines is 38 billion dollars of the top 150 top prescription drugs in the U S A IN 1997 WERE FROM BIOLOGICAL SOURCES

                    So you are telling me
                    that science knows the solution and our lives are nothing but a tool for society
                    Your mate
                    from the land down under
                    Out of site out of mind
                    martin


                    Plant your plants and
                    Let them grow





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                  • Dee Harris
                    Many of the so-called dangerous herbs are not as dangerous as you may think. It s the way that they are used and the amounts. Of course, a lot of study and
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 19, 2007
                      Many of the so-called dangerous herbs are not as dangerous as you may think. It's the way that they are used and the amounts. Of course, a lot of study and practice goes into learning herbalism. I"ve spent years learning what I know about herbs and alot of the so called dangerous herbs I use quite often without any adverse affects. Learning and practice and more learning and practice is what is needed and study. Lots of study. Check everything out before using any herb. It's only common sense.
                      Wolf

                      Infowolf1@... wrote:

                      In a message dated 7/17/2007 5:42:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                      martinwnaylor@... writes:

                      It is also true that prescription medicine is the biggest killer in America
                      2 years ago 700.000 people died from legal drugs [prescription medicine], 60
                      % of prescription drugs have the essential ingredient derived from plant
                      sources
                      A lot of herbs don't have scientific proof because there hasn't been any
                      investigations done
                      also this is about chemical gangs like Monsanto controlling plans and seeds
                      rights
                      Martin

                      which doesn't make herbs safe. You have to handle some of them carefully,
                      but the most dangerous ones don't usually turn up in health food
                      stores
                      any more anyway.

                      i think it is not the prescription meds so much as the mixing of
                      them with
                      things, that the doctor is not told about, or that the
                      pharmacist is not told
                      about, and these stupid people think if it is OTC it is
                      harmless, and use it
                      with prescription meds.

                      Or with some herbs.

                      Infowolf1

                      ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
                      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

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                    • Dee Harris
                      Try Mrs Grieves Herbal. I don t have the full addy but all you need is the title I just gave. There are so many herbal sites that open up a whole new world on
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 19, 2007
                        Try Mrs Grieves Herbal. I don't have the full addy but all you need is the title I just gave. There are so many herbal sites that open up a whole new world on what's out there that is better than the patented medicines that the doctors are handing out like candy.
                        Wolf

                        Donald Sunday <donsonde20@...> wrote:
                        thanks for the information!It's really helpfull.

                        Richard Morris <mailinglists@...> wrote: A bit of a dispute is emerging on wikipedia's list of medicinal herbs,
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicinal_herbs
                        A few people with a rather hard science atitude are trying to trash
                        the list, claiming its just unscientific fringe material.

                        Help could be needed in fleshing out the list finding good references
                        for the medicinal uses of the plants. Finding good authoritive
                        references could be really helpful.


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                      • Dee Harris
                        May I suggest that they send these guys a copy of Culpepper s Herbal? LOL Wolf ... years are just deluding themselves! I m starting to think scientists even
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 19, 2007
                          May I suggest that they send these guys a copy of Culpepper's Herbal? LOL
                          Wolf

                          David Foale <anarchybob@...> wrote:
                          :D I love that attitude, sure, people have been using them for thousands of
                          years are just deluding themselves! I'm starting to think scientists even
                          misuse empirical evidence, the basis of their whole belief system...

                          David
                          x
                          On 16/07/07, Richard Morris <mailinglists@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A bit of a dispute is emerging on wikipedia's list of medicinal herbs,
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medicinal_herbs
                          > A few people with a rather hard science atitude are trying to trash
                          > the list, claiming its just unscientific fringe material.
                          >
                          > Help could be needed in fleshing out the list finding good references
                          > for the medicinal uses of the plants. Finding good authoritive
                          > references could be really helpful.
                          >
                          >
                          >

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                        • Martin Naylor
                          No 700,000 deaths are from the side effects, most drugs don t cure the alleviate, sure some herbs are dangerous and can kill, i am a qualified herbalist we are
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 19, 2007
                            No 700,000 deaths are from the side effects, most drugs don't cure the alleviate, sure some herbs are dangerous and can kill, i am a qualified herbalist
                            we are a carbon based molecular system anything that affects that system is a drug
                            Martin


                            Plant your plants and
                            Let them grow
                            i'm just a singer in a rock and roll band
                            scorching this earth






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