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Re: [pfaf] Forest Gardens

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  • Gail Lloyd
    If there is not much sun in your forest, you could probably grow mushrooms. If your forest is pine trees, you can grow plants that like acidic soil. You
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 16, 2007
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      If there is not much sun in your forest, you could probably grow mushrooms. If your forest is pine trees, you can grow plants that like acidic soil. You could also grow pine trees for the pine nuts. Do a google search on forest gardens - there's a book on forest gardens for sale on http://www.edibleforestgardens.com/about_book. Most veggies have to have about 6 hrs sunlight each day.

      Gail

      Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...> wrote:
      where do you live,? --I garden my forest in my swamp, in Florida, --but this may not apply, --Michael porter

      Peggy <peg6012@...> wrote: Does anybody have any info on forest gardens? Thanks, Peg

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    • Michael Porter
      I grew Ginseng ,Blood root , and Dioscorea batatas [Chinese wild yam] and a few others when living in that growing zone, in 50 to 85% shade --Michael Porter
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 16, 2007
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        I grew Ginseng ,Blood root , and Dioscorea batatas [Chinese wild yam] and a few others when living in that growing zone, in 50 to 85% shade --Michael Porter

        Gail Lloyd <gardenchick1949@...> wrote: If there is not much sun in your forest, you could probably grow mushrooms. If your forest is pine trees, you can grow plants that like acidic soil. You could also grow pine trees for the pine nuts. Do a google search on forest gardens - there's a book on forest gardens for sale on http://www.edibleforestgardens.com/about_book. Most veggies have to have about 6 hrs sunlight each day.

        Gail

        Michael Porter <michaels4gardens@...> wrote:
        where do you live,? --I garden my forest in my swamp, in Florida, --but this may not apply, --Michael porter

        Peggy <peg6012@...> wrote: Does anybody have any info on forest gardens? Thanks, Peg

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      • Traveler in Thyme
        I have a forest garden , which in Texas translates to hot, dry shade under cedars and oaks that will grow nothing but rocks. Still, we have hacked out
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 17, 2007
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          I have a "forest garden", which in Texas translates to "hot, dry shade under cedars and oaks that will grow nothing but rocks." Still, we have hacked out over 1,000 square feet of pretty places and food plots, by thinning the trees, building terraces from the logs and rocks, and backfilling with many dollars and hours worth of improved soil. It can be done!


          ---Marcia Cash
          Traveler in Thyme
          http://www.travelerinthyme.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sustain_ability@123mail.org
          Hello Marcia, I would love to know more. I have rocks upon rocks and the growing season for gardens can be as short as 60 days between killer frosts. Are you
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 17, 2007
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            Hello Marcia,
            I would love to know more. I have rocks upon rocks and the growing
            season for gardens can be as short as 60 days between killer frosts. Are
            you able to provide any references or links?
            George
            http://transitions.stumbleupon.com

            On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:12:25 -0500, "Traveler in Thyme"
            <marcia@...> said:
            > I have a "forest garden", which in Texas translates to "hot, dry shade
            > under cedars and oaks that will grow nothing but rocks." Still, we
            > have hacked out over 1,000 square feet of pretty places and food plots,
            > by thinning the trees, building terraces from the logs and rocks, and
            > backfilling with many dollars and hours worth of improved soil. It can
            > be done!
            >
            >
            > ---Marcia Cash
            > Traveler in Thyme
            > http://www.travelerinthyme.com
            >

            --
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          • Dee Harris
            Now Marcia has my attention. My husband s GI loan is slated for Texas and his Federal GI loan any where in the US he wants. Of course, if I want him to get
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 17, 2007
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              Now Marcia has my attention. My husband's GI loan is slated for Texas and his Federal GI loan any where in the US he wants. Of course, if I want him to get both then I would have to insist on Northern Texas close to Dallas, as close to the Rio Grande as I can get. LOL
              Wolf

              Traveler in Thyme <marcia@...> wrote:
              I have a "forest garden", which in Texas translates to "hot, dry shade under cedars and oaks that will grow nothing but rocks." Still, we have hacked out over 1,000 square feet of pretty places and food plots, by thinning the trees, building terraces from the logs and rocks, and backfilling with many dollars and hours worth of improved soil. It can be done!

              ---Marcia Cash
              Traveler in Thyme
              http://www.travelerinthyme.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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            • Traveler in Thyme
              Now, Wolf, North Texas is by the Red River, the Rio Grande is the border of Mexico, down south. Two totally different worlds, garden-wise. I d take North
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 18, 2007
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                Now, Wolf, North Texas is by the Red River, the Rio Grande is the border of Mexico, down south. Two totally different worlds, garden-wise. I'd take North Texas, too, but it's all covered up with metroplex. My grandmother's farm was the corner of Belt Line and Plano roads........way out in the cotton fields during the 50's, now it's so far buried in the suburbs you just can't get there from here. Deep, black soil under all those strip malls and parking lots, though.

                And George, where do you live, with a 60-day growing season? We have those, too ------ three of them: winter, spring, and fall. Summer is our killing season, everything just bakes. So I"m really into short-season hybrid veggies, most of the heirlooms I"ve tried take so long to make squash or tomatoes they expire from heat stroke before they turn a profit on the crop. We have much better luck with winter greens, and probably eat healthier off the weeds than the summer veggies.

                As for rocks, if you water it only grows more rocks? Same here. Then you pick up all the little rocks (your squat thrust exercise for the day), and pile them in long lines for terraces and bed borders. I use them for mulch, actually, they keep the moisture and shade in the soil. Rock mulch attracts grubs and scorpions, though, so be sure to turn them over once in a while to catch those nasty critters. We have rhinocerous beetle grubs as big as a man's thumb, and Blanco is the Scorpion Capitol of the World, or it should be.......

                Speaking of mulch, we have seen 3 of the biggest coral snakes on record (I checked) living in the deep, dry oak leaf mulch of the forest edges, or under the deep hay in the garden. They are more afraid of me than I of them, but my dumb dog had one cornered and was going to get hurt, so I smashed it with a rock. Put it in the freezer, so everyone who opens the door gets a spook, even me, and I know it's in there (LOL) This was the "tiny" coral snake of the trio, it's only 25 inches long. That's big for a coral snake, isn't it? I love snakes.

                Then there are the fire ants that love holing up under rock walls where you can't get to them. I'm so glad we've been having ant prevention discussions here.

                ---Marcia Cash
                Traveler in Thyme
                http://www.travelerinthyme.com







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Pat Meadows
                ... There are some *really* fast open-pollinated (heirloom) tomatoes. Glacier is one - Fedco carries it, as do others. Take a look here too, if you re
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 18, 2007
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                  On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:32:24 -0500, you wrote:

                  >Now, Wolf, North Texas is by the Red River, the Rio Grande is the border of Mexico, down south. Two totally different worlds, garden-wise. I'd take North Texas, too, but it's all covered up with metroplex. My grandmother's farm was the corner of Belt Line and Plano roads........way out in the cotton fields during the 50's, now it's so far buried in the suburbs you just can't get there from here. Deep, black soil under all those strip malls and parking lots, though.
                  >
                  >And George, where do you live, with a 60-day growing season? We have those, too ------ three of them: winter, spring, and fall. Summer is our killing season, everything just bakes. So I"m really into short-season hybrid veggies, most of the heirlooms I"ve tried take so long to make squash or tomatoes they expire from heat stroke before they turn a profit on the crop. We have much better luck with winter greens, and probably eat healthier off the weeds than the summer veggies.
                  >

                  There are some *really* fast open-pollinated (heirloom) tomatoes.

                  Glacier is one - Fedco carries it, as do others. Take a look here too, if
                  you're interested in fast tomatoes:

                  http://www.psrseed.com/

                  Especially, see: http://www.psrseed.com/earlytomatoseed.html

                  They also have Glacier. Some of their selections (all of which are
                  open-pollinated) may be of use to you.

                  I'm trying Forest Fire and Polar Gem for my early tomatoes this year: 40-50
                  days after transplanting is EXTREMELY FAST. I've never seen a hybrid
                  tomato that claimed to be nearly that fast.

                  I've grown Glacier several years, and it is a very valuable early tomato,
                  IMHO.

                  These are all northern tomatoes, bred for the north. But maybe if you grow
                  them in winter, they'd be suitable for your area.

                  Pat
                  -- in Pennsylvania's Northern Tier
                  Help save the world: eat local food!
                  Blog: http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/
                • sustain_ability@123mail.org
                  Thanks, Pat. That s excellent advice. My spread is in the Laurentian Hills (Mountains) west-northwest of Montreal. The hills are not large enough (e.g. the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 18, 2007
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                    Thanks, Pat. That's excellent advice.

                    My spread is in the Laurentian Hills (Mountains) west-northwest of
                    Montreal. The hills are not large enough (e.g. the Himalayas) to block
                    the polar fronts and freeze ups. The predominant conifers reflect the
                    acidic soil and also act as a temperature modifier (the needles act to
                    slow the downward rush of cold air and allow it to better exchange any
                    heat with the warmer air being displaced). A huge conifer died a few
                    years ago and the apple tree directly underneath suffered frost kill
                    during bloom season.

                    City apartment sprouted chestnut plants died a cold death when I
                    foolishly transplanted them into the cold, snow melt drenched soil a few
                    years ago. Now I have a million square feet of French-made imported row
                    cover.

                    How and why the recently migrated deer survive the winter and reproduce
                    is a puzzle to me, unless it's a reaction to urban sprawl and not due to
                    a shortage of food "upstream" in the higher elevations away from
                    civilization. There are people raising chickens in the area (I hear the
                    rooster). Another problem is that "cadastral reform" using GPS is moving
                    at a glacial pace. I need to know, e.g. if a stream traverses my land.

                    I dream of tilapia or trout fish farming (excavating countless rocks
                    without dynamite and heavy equipment by moving only the "less than one
                    ton" items by hand winch) and greenhouse growing. I will need Passive
                    Annual Heat Storage, wind breaks that also channel the wind to generate
                    power, redundancy to prevent catastrophic loss, heat shielding from
                    baking sunlight.. Extreme flexibility will enable one to thrive, I'm
                    hoping. Mere survival won't satisfy the critics.

                    Amory has it easier, I think. His latitudinal location is much further
                    south. There is a Penn. man growing citrus fruit in a greenhouse, if I
                    remember correctly. Penn. mountains are higher than me - I'm only at
                    about 1000 feet. What is your elevation, Pat? I remember the mainly
                    deciduous forest while driving through the coal-rich Pocono range.

                    George
                    http://transitions.stumbleupon.com


                    On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 14:34:10 -0500, "Pat Meadows" <pat@...>
                    said:

                    > >And George, where do you live, with a 60-day growing season? We have those, too ------ three of them: winter, spring, and fall. Summer is our killing season, everything just bakes. So I"m really into short-season hybrid veggies, most of the heirlooms I"ve tried take so long to make squash or tomatoes they expire from heat stroke before they turn a profit on the crop. We have much better luck with winter greens, and probably eat healthier off the weeds than the summer veggies.

                    --
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                  • Dee Harris
                    I was exhausted when I wrote that, Pat so it s a wonder that I was even able to see straight much less think straight. By the way, have you ever been to the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 18, 2007
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                      I was exhausted when I wrote that, Pat so it's a wonder that I was even able to see straight much less think straight. By the way, have you ever been to the Big Bend area? It's beautiful down there.
                      As for the plants dying of heat stroke, well, I've got some ideas on that that I want to try out before listing them. I've also been putting some thought into underground or cave planting. Up in Northeastern Oklahoma, there are a lot of caves and underground streams. That takes care of the electrical problem, so all I would need to do is to come up with a way to contineously circulate the air and I have one or two ideas on that one as well, but again I want to try it out first.
                      Wolf

                      Pat Meadows <pat@...> wrote:
                      On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:32:24 -0500, you wrote:

                      >Now, Wolf, North Texas is by the Red River, the Rio Grande is the border of Mexico, down south. Two totally different worlds, garden-wise. I'd take North Texas, too, but it's all covered up with metroplex. My grandmother's farm was the corner of Belt Line and Plano roads........way out in the cotton fields during the 50's, now it's so far buried in the suburbs you just can't get there from here. Deep, black soil under all those strip malls and parking lots, though.
                      >
                      >And George, where do you live, with a 60-day growing season? We have those, too ------ three of them: winter, spring, and fall. Summer is our killing season, everything just bakes. So I"m really into short-season hybrid veggies, most of the heirlooms I"ve tried take so long to make squash or tomatoes they expire from heat stroke before they turn a profit on the crop. We have much better luck with winter greens, and probably eat healthier off the weeds than the summer veggies.
                      >

                      There are some *really* fast open-pollinated (heirloom) tomatoes.

                      Glacier is one - Fedco carries it, as do others. Take a look here too, if
                      you're interested in fast tomatoes:

                      http://www.psrseed.com/

                      Especially, see: http://www.psrseed.com/earlytomatoseed.html

                      They also have Glacier. Some of their selections (all of which are
                      open-pollinated) may be of use to you.

                      I'm trying Forest Fire and Polar Gem for my early tomatoes this year: 40-50
                      days after transplanting is EXTREMELY FAST. I've never seen a hybrid
                      tomato that claimed to be nearly that fast.

                      I've grown Glacier several years, and it is a very valuable early tomato,
                      IMHO.

                      These are all northern tomatoes, bred for the north. But maybe if you grow
                      them in winter, they'd be suitable for your area.

                      Pat
                      -- in Pennsylvania's Northern Tier
                      Help save the world: eat local food!
                      Blog: http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/







                      test'; ">

                      ---------------------------------
                      Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                      in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Caribe704@aol.com
                      I have a spot in the mountains near Boone, NC I want to get some crops started on but cant be there to manage them just yet. many of the fruit trees I have
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 19, 2007
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                        I have a spot in the mountains near Boone, NC I want to get some crops
                        started on but cant be there to manage them just yet. many of the fruit trees I
                        have planted havent made it from one trip to the next, a few pine trees are all
                        that survived, (not pinion trees)



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                      • Pat Meadows
                        ... We re at about 1700 feet. We are not in the Poconos, but considerably west of there. We are in the Appalachians. We re not on a hilltop, however - the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 19, 2007
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                          On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:39:01 -0400, you wrote:

                          >
                          >Amory has it easier, I think. His latitudinal location is much further
                          >south. There is a Penn. man growing citrus fruit in a greenhouse, if I
                          >remember correctly. Penn. mountains are higher than me - I'm only at
                          >about 1000 feet. What is your elevation, Pat? I remember the mainly
                          >deciduous forest while driving through the coal-rich Pocono range.

                          We're at about 1700 feet. We are not in the Poconos, but considerably west
                          of there. We are in the Appalachians. We're not on a hilltop, however -
                          the hilltops are higher, maybe up to around 2500 feet.

                          (Of course, from a larger point of view, I suppose the Poconos are part of
                          the Appalachians. The Poconos are more of a high plateau, however. Once
                          you're on top, you don't see hills much. Our area is more
                          traditional-looking hills and valleys.)

                          Our altitude gives us a climate comparable to one considerably north of us,
                          such in as Maine, for example. We have a short frost free season and very
                          cool summer nights. Tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants do better under
                          plastic here and we grow them in (an unheated) hoophouse, for the most
                          part.

                          The Penn man growing citrus in a greenhouse is possibly at Penn State
                          University, in State College, PA. That's about 100 miles southwest of us.
                          I don't know its elevation. They do a lot of 'plasticulture' work.

                          http://plasticulture.cas.psu.edu/

                          However, he could be at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia - a
                          really warm climate, compared to ours! People can grow fig trees there.

                          Pat
                          -- in Pennsylvania's Northern Tier
                          Help save the world: eat local food!
                          Blog: http://www.entire-of-itself.blogspot.com/
                        • Traveler in Thyme
                          Here in Blanco, Texas, I m at 1650 ft, but it s just a ridge in the hill country, no mountains around here! I was so surprised to find out we are higher than
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 19, 2007
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                            Here in Blanco, Texas, I'm at 1650 ft, but it's just a ridge in the hill country, no mountains around here! I was so surprised to find out we are higher than our friends in Jasper, Arkansas, in the heart of the Ozarks, and way higher than the Appalachians, mostly. That's because our lake levels are at 700 feet and up, so the hills don't seem so high from ground zero, while the Ozarks are steep because their rivers are closer to sea level at the Mississippi.

                            Our elevation brings no relief from heat, though. It's hot, dry, and rocky, with scrubby live oaks and junipers that live on fog and humidity. It never ceases to amaze me when it's bone dry drought but the humidity is in the 90's. Such a pleasant ecosystem (not). Wresting a garden from dead dry shade is the work of a lifethyme!


                            ---Marcia Cash
                            Traveler in Thyme
                            http://www.travelerinthyme.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • sustain_ability@123mail.org
                            All I know about fruit trees is that northerly exposure is better because any late frosts kill the earlier blooming trees on the warmer slopes. But nut trees
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 20, 2007
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                              All I know about fruit trees is that northerly exposure is better
                              because any late frosts kill the earlier blooming trees on the warmer
                              slopes.
                              But nut trees would be my choice also in your "warmer" area. Contact
                              your local Extension office (if that's what they're called) for more
                              precise info. And choose nurseries that specialize in hardy varieties.
                              Of course, they charge more than Walmart.
                              George

                              On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:30:40 EDT, Caribe704@... said:
                              > I have a spot in the mountains near Boone, NC I want to get some crops
                              > started on but cant be there to manage them just yet. many of the fruit
                              > trees I
                              > have planted havent made it from one trip to the next, a few pine trees
                              > are all
                              > that survived, (not pinion trees)
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                            • Paul S. Hetrick
                              Peggy, I m in Douglas County, Mo. There are other people in this area who are interested in/starting forest gardens. If you are any where near Ava, we could
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 31, 2007
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                                Peggy,

                                I'm in Douglas County, Mo. There are other people in this area who are
                                interested in/starting forest gardens. If you are any where near Ava,
                                we could be (and should be) compairing notes.

                                Drop me a line at homesteadpaul@... or join my Ozark-Homestead
                                list here on Yahoo groups and send a note there. The subject of forest
                                gardens hasn't come up there much yet, but there is a lot of people
                                with gardening and woodcraft experience.

                                ==>paul



                                --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Peggy Rush <peg6012@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I live in MO zone 5. Thanks for the info on the website. Peg
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > It's here! Your new message!
                                > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Geir Flatabø
                                It wold be nice for us in other parts of the world to know what Mo and Ava means where to look at the map... Geir Flatabø ... [Non-text portions of this
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 31, 2007
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                                  It wold be nice for us in other parts of the world to know what Mo and Ava
                                  means
                                  where to look at the map...
                                  Geir Flatabø

                                  2007/3/31, Paul S. Hetrick <homesteadpaul@...>:
                                  >
                                  > Peggy,
                                  >
                                  > I'm in Douglas County, Mo. There are other people in this area who are
                                  > interested in/starting forest gardens. If you are any where near Ava,
                                  > we could be (and should be) compairing notes.
                                  >
                                  > Drop me a line at homesteadpaul@... or join my Ozark-Homestead
                                  > list here on Yahoo groups and send a note there. The subject of forest
                                  > gardens hasn't come up there much yet, but there is a lot of people
                                  > with gardening and woodcraft experience.
                                  >
                                  > ==>paul
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Peggy Rush <peg6012@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I live in MO zone 5. Thanks for the info on the website. Peg
                                  > >
                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                  > > It's here! Your new message!
                                  > > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Patricia Jones
                                  Hi, MO is the state of Missouri and I m assuming that Ava is a city in Missouri. It wold be nice for us in other parts of the world to know what Mo and Ava
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                    Hi,
                                    MO is the state of Missouri and I'm assuming that Ava is a city in
                                    Missouri.


                                    It wold be nice for us in other parts of the world to know what
                                    Mo and Ava
                                    means
                                    where to look at the map...
                                    Geir Flatab� ��

                                    2007/3/31, Paul S. Hetrick <homesteadpaul@...>:
                                    >
                                    >Peggy,
                                    >
                                    >I'm in Douglas County, Mo. There are other people in this
                                    area who are
                                    >interested in/starting forest gardens. If you are any where
                                    near Ava,
                                    >we could be (and should be) compairing notes.
                                    >
                                    >Drop me a line at homesteadpaul@... or join my
                                    Ozark-Homestead
                                    >list here on Yahoo groups and send a note there. The subject
                                    of forest
                                    >gardens hasn't come up there much yet, but there is a lot of
                                    people
                                    >with gardening and woodcraft experience.
                                    >
                                    >==>paul
                                    >
                                    >

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                                  • Paul S. Hetrick
                                    You are right that MO is Missouri, USA. Calling Ava a city is being a bit too polite though. It s a town of about 3000 people in the south- central part of
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                      You are right that MO is Missouri, USA. Calling Ava a city is being a
                                      bit too polite though. It's a town of about 3000 people in the south-
                                      central part of the state. That puts it in the Ozarks.

                                      Since the main reason I posted was to let Peggy know she wasn't the
                                      only one in the state interested, I was less polite than I usually am
                                      in assuming anybody reading. would either know where I was talking
                                      about, or wouldn't care.

                                      I also noticed though that yahoo tried to be helpfull and clipped my
                                      address out. It should have ended with a hotmail dot com

                                      ==>paul

                                      --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia Jones" <cherokee32@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi,
                                      > MO is the state of Missouri and I'm assuming that Ava is a city
                                      in
                                      > Missouri.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It wold be nice for us in other parts of the world to know what
                                      > Mo and Ava
                                      > means
                                      > where to look at the map...
                                      > Geir Flatab€ ¦ø
                                      >
                                      > 2007/3/31, Paul S. Hetrick <homesteadpaul@...>:
                                      > >
                                      > >Peggy,
                                      > >
                                      > >I'm in Douglas County, Mo. There are other people in this
                                      > area who are
                                      > >interested in/starting forest gardens. If you are any where
                                      > near Ava,
                                      > >we could be (and should be) compairing notes.
                                      > >
                                      > >Drop me a line at homesteadpaul@... or join my
                                      > Ozark-Homestead
                                      > >list here on Yahoo groups and send a note there. The subject
                                      > of forest
                                      > >gardens hasn't come up there much yet, but there is a lot of
                                      > people
                                      > >with gardening and woodcraft experience.
                                      > >
                                      > >==>paul
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > _________________________________________________________________
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                                      > http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?
                                      icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07
                                      >
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