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Perennial cabbages and Kales

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  • papaloquelites
    Happy New Year everyone. Like me you are probably busy planning the planting and ordering seed. Is anyone familiar with any perennial brassicas? I have a
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 9, 2006
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      Happy New Year everyone. Like me you are probably busy planning the
      planting and ordering seed.

      Is anyone familiar with any perennial brassicas?

      I have a couple of Crambe maritima, or seakale, in their first
      winter.

      I have come across discussions in French forums (or is that fora or
      foros) of Chou Daubenton, a perennial that only rarely flowers and
      is generally propagated by root cuttings. I have never seen it
      mentioned in British or US literature or groups. While I await seed
      from Francoise, in Ste Genevieve des Bois, near Paris, does anybody
      have any experience of it? I think it is Brassica oleracea v.
      ramosa.

      Ragged Jack kale is sometimes called perennial, also sometimes
      classified as B. o. v. ramosa. It is rare under that name, but some
      catalogues have it as a synonym for red russian kale. Can that be
      right, or are there two varieties masquerading as red russian? Any
      thoughts or experience?

      And how about Nine Star Broccoli? This most closely fits the
      description of Daubenton, except that it is a shortlived perennial
      and commonly flowers if the cauliflower like shoots are not picked.
      Anyone grown that?

      I am in USDA zone 5-6, rhubarb and perennial onions make it through,
      and I think the perennial brassicas will be toucha nd go, but I
      would like to try.

      Look forward to hearing your experience with these crops.

      Adam.
    • Christopher Shanks
      We grow perennnial collards in P-N-west. Cold hardy to at least zone 7 USDA.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 9, 2006
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        Re: [pfaf] Perennial cabbages and Kales We grow perennnial collards in P-N-west.
        Cold hardy to at least zone 7 USDA.


        On 1/9/06 6:53 PM, "papaloquelites" <papaloquelites@...> wrote:


        Happy New Year everyone. Like me you are probably busy planning the
        planting and ordering seed.

        Is anyone familiar with any perennial brassicas?

        I have a couple of Crambe maritima, or seakale, in their first
        winter.

        I have come across discussions in French forums (or is that fora or
        foros) of Chou Daubenton, a perennial that only rarely flowers and
        is generally propagated by root cuttings. I have never seen it
        mentioned in British or US literature or groups. While I await seed
        X-Hotmail-From: from Francoise, in Ste Genevieve des Bois, near Paris, does anybody
        have any experience of it? I think it is Brassica oleracea v.
        ramosa.

        Ragged Jack kale is sometimes called perennial, also sometimes
        classified as B. o. v. ramosa. It is rare under that name, but some
        catalogues have it as a synonym for red russian kale. Can that be
        right, or are there two varieties masquerading as red russian? Any
        thoughts or experience?

        And how about Nine Star Broccoli? This most closely fits the
        description of Daubenton, except that it is a shortlived perennial
        and commonly flowers if the cauliflower like shoots are not picked.
        Anyone grown that?

        I am in USDA zone 5-6, rhubarb and perennial onions make it through,
        and I think the perennial brassicas will be toucha nd go, but I
        would like to try.

        Look forward to hearing your experience with these crops.

        Adam.


         





         
         

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      • Griselda
        Just as a matter of interest, sea kale grows in deep shingle or sand banks by the south coast here in England, in what look like the most inhospitable
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 9, 2006
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          Re: [pfaf] Perennial cabbages and Kales Just as a matter of interest, sea kale grows in deep shingle or sand banks by the south coast here in England, in what look like the most inhospitable conditions – salt air, shifting soil, storms, summer drought.....they root very very deeply to hold their place and to reach fresh water, just a few yards from the sea.   We pick very young leaves from the centre of the plants as they emerge in spring, keeping a wary lookout for how large the plant’s spread is.....dogs are unlikely to have peed in the middle of very large plants....   Also the leaves are so thick and tough they are inedible once they get much bigger than a hand’s span.  Still - it is ‘free’ food.    Cooks like old-fashioned cabbage and tastes very rich, as if it had a lot of iron in it, or minerals.




          Happy New Year everyone. Like me you are probably busy planning the
          planting and ordering seed.

          Is anyone familiar with any perennial brassicas?

          I have a couple of Crambe maritima, or seakale, in their first
          winter.

          I have come across discussions in French forums (or is that fora or
          foros) of Chou Daubenton, a perennial that only rarely flowers and
          is generally propagated by root cuttings. I have never seen it
          mentioned in British or US literature or groups. While I await seed
          from Francoise, in Ste Genevieve des Bois, near Paris, does anybody
          have any experience of it? I think it is Brassica oleracea v.
          ramosa.

          Ragged Jack kale is sometimes called perennial, also sometimes
          classified as B. o. v. ramosa. It is rare under that name, but some
          catalogues have it as a synonym for red russian kale. Can that be
          right, or are there two varieties masquerading as red russian? Any
          thoughts or experience?

          And how about Nine Star Broccoli? This most closely fits the
          description of Daubenton, except that it is a shortlived perennial
          and commonly flowers if the cauliflower like shoots are not picked.
          Anyone grown that?

          I am in USDA zone 5-6, rhubarb and perennial onions make it through,
          and I think the perennial brassicas will be toucha nd go, but I
          would like to try.

          Look forward to hearing your experience with these crops.

          Adam.









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        • papaloquelites
          ... Hi, Chris: Are those a particular variety of collard, a local heirloom, or regualr varieties that performa as perennials in your hands? Adam.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 10, 2006
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            --- In pfaf@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Shanks <ch_shanks@h...> wrote:
            >
            > We grow perennnial collards in P-N-west.
            > Cold hardy to at least zone 7 USDA.
            >
            >

            >
            Hi, Chris:

            Are those a particular variety of collard, a local heirloom, or
            regualr varieties that performa as perennials in your hands?

            Adam.
          • Geir Flatabø
            I have no experience with the ones you mention, but I have a few others to mention that survives very well here in cold Norway , they are Crambe cordifolia, -
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 10, 2006
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              I have no experience with the ones you mention,
              but I have a few others to mention that survives very well here in "cold
              Norway",
              they are
              Crambe cordifolia, - - Tartar sea kale,(Tatarkål) absolutely hardy and
              Bunias orientalis - Turkish Rocket (Russekål) also absolutely hardy and
              both easy to grow.

              Among the Brassicas s str, I guess varieties of Brusselsprouts and
              kales - curly leaved are the most winter hardy here, but only seldom
              enduring the whole, winter.

              Geir Flatabø


              > Happy New Year everyone. Like me you are probably busy planning the
              >
              > planting and ordering seed.
              >
              > Is anyone familiar with any perennial brassicas?
              >
              > I have a couple of Crambe maritima, or seakale, in their first
              > winter.
              >
              > I have come across discussions in French forums (or is that fora or
              > foros) of Chou Daubenton, a perennial that only rarely flowers and
              > is generally propagated by root cuttings. I have never seen it
              > mentioned in British or US literature or groups. While I await seed
              > X-Hotmail-From: from Francoise, in Ste Genevieve des Bois, near
              > Paris, does anybody
              > have any experience of it? I think it is Brassica oleracea v.
              > ramosa.
              >
              > Ragged Jack kale is sometimes called perennial, also sometimes
              > classified as B. o. v. ramosa. It is rare under that name, but some
              > catalogues have it as a synonym for red russian kale. Can that be
              > right, or are there two varieties masquerading as red russian? Any
              > thoughts or experience?
              >
              > And how about Nine Star Broccoli? This most closely fits the
              > description of Daubenton, except that it is a shortlived perennial
              > and commonly flowers if the cauliflower like shoots are not picked.
              > Anyone grown that?
              >
              > I am in USDA zone 5-6, rhubarb and perennial onions make it through,
              > and I think the perennial brassicas will be toucha nd go, but I
              > would like to try.
              >
              > Look forward to hearing your experience with these crops.
              >
              > Adam.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • papaloquelites
              Hi, Geir, and Steven.... I have Crambe maritima, just going into its first winter, so we shall see. I only got a few seeds from a seed saver,they may have
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 10, 2006
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                Hi, Geir, and Steven....


                I have Crambe maritima, just going into its first winter, so we
                shall see. I only got a few seeds from a seed saver,they may have
                been old and were not very lively. They were aloso hard to
                germinate (I did scarify the hard seed coat) which of course may
                reflect their undomesticated nature.

                I have wanted to try Bunias orientalis, but one seed saver who
                offered it had run out, and another sent me seed that grew out as
                Rumex acetosus, garden sorrel. If anyone has seed please let me
                know (I have several interesting things to offer in exchange).

                The other Crambe species I have not come across; I will be trying
                nine star this year.

                The Brassicas have wide range of behaviors, many of the Asian types
                flower if you just cough near them, the old English sprouting
                broccolies (OK how do u pluralise broccoli, broccolollies, I feel a
                thread coming on, and do not say it is already plural)that
                overwinter, effectively bi-ennials, and clearly some perennials
                under at least some conditions.

                Your comments are all very interesting, thank you. Adam.
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