5547RE: [pfaf] Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
- May 1, 2011Hi John (and All) I think that there are so many view points, 'diets' and different lifestyles that it is so difficult to get it right for everyone.
Has anyone read Victoria Boutenko's book comparing our closest cousin's (chimpanzee) diet to our present westernised diet?
Apart from the odd monkey they catch and kill most of their animal protein comes from insects and together these make up only 1% of their diet. Half is fruit, 2 - 7% is pith, bark and seeds, and the rest a huge variety of greens all depending on the season. Jane Goodall says that they can go for months and months without consuming any animal protein and seem to have no ill effects. The key seems to be variety of the other sources of food. Not just sticking to one or two kinds of leaves etc, and of course, all raw and in their natural state.
I did email her to ask how they get their B12 vitamin but I haven't had a reply as yet. I presume they need it as we do being so close to our genetic makeup. They presumably get if from the non-animal foodstuffs they eat, but I don't know which ones. Also, they chew their food much more than we do which is needed to release the nutrients in the foods, and stomach acid has to be very strong in order to process said food stuffs - between 1 - 2. This is why she suggests the raw green smoothies, because we have lost the ability (and the will in most cases) to chew our food sufficiently to get the best out of it.
Regarding stomach acid, the book says that this declines with over consumption of fats and proteins which wear out the parietal cells of the stomach that secret stomach acid.
There is so much more that I could quote but it would be better to read it for yourselves and make up your own minds.
For me, I have been veggie for 27yrs and was vegan for 2 of them and would like to be again some day. In those years I have had a great many things happen in my life and depending on what was happening it didin't matter what I ate - I either had lots of energy and zest for life, or I put on weight and felt depressed and tired all the time. It was nothing to do with food - it was life circumstances and my mental health that made the difference. The only thing I have noticed that is significant is that when I consume cooked food, however 'healthy' I feel a bloated and tired and often nauseous more than when eating raw food, or at the very least simple processed food such as bread and cheese. I practically lived on bread and cheese for a couple of years a while back because eating large quantities of raw greens made me feel bloated and sick also. Then I discovered about green smoothies and stomach acid and now I can consume much more green stuff when it has been 'pre-chewed' for me!
My philosophy is to look at nature, look at history way back, before we discovered how to make weapons and kill, and fire to cook, and see if we have changed our diets so much since then that they are affecting our health, either for good or bad. We are the only animal to cook food, and the only one to continue having milk products after weaning. If we couldn't do these it would be interesting to see the difference in our health.
". . . the greatest peril of life lies in the fact that human food consists entirely of souls. All the creatures that we have to kill to eat, all those that we have to strike down and destroy to make clothes for ourselves, have souls, souls that do not perish with the body . . . All that exists lives."
from 'Shaman, the wounded healer' by J. Halifax, 1982
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:11:43 +0100
Subject: RE: [pfaf] Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
Great to see such positive thoughts - maybe there's hope for the world.But I come back to the point that world demand for meat and other animal stuff cannot be satisfied without intensive farming and the damage from that is just not acceptable.I am 65 yrs old, in very good health, loads of energy (doing outdoor physical work) and have been vegan for 20 years - maybe I'm blood type A.John.
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:46:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [pfaf] Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
Interesting discussion. I was vegetarian 2 X in my life. The first
time-- for 3 years-- when I was 16 and knew nothing about nutrition. I
ended up anemic and really sick. I started eating meat again on the
advice of my doctor.
2nd time I was in my early 30s, my husband and I became vegetarians for
philosophical reasons. We ate what would be considered an excellent
diet, lots of soy anda huge variety of fresh veg, nuts etc. After 8
years I was 35 # overweight, fatigued all of the time, battled
depression constantly, and developing arthritis. And I was getting
repeated respiratory colds, sinus infections etc. which would last
weeks. Like infowolf I often craved meat.
Then I discovered the Blood Type Diet, and started eating for my blood
type (O positive). This included lean red meat, fish and poultry, as
well as a specialized list of veggie, fruits, nuts etc. Interestingly,
no dairy, no soy, no wheat, no corn. (Not all blood types should eat
meat, or dairy--Blood type A is generally best with a vegetarian or
mostly vegetarian diet. And many--but not all-- Blood Type As thrive on
soy.) The man who formulated the diets says-- do organic, free range
everything. Which is the only meat I would consider.
ALL of my health problems reversed in 2 WEEKS of changing my diet. I was
shocked. Arthritic pain gone.Fatigue gone. 14 years down the road I am
healthy, much happier, and I am almost never sick, except sometimes at
Christmas when I cheat a little and eat eggnog, whipped cream, or
wheat.., ;) I can often make do on 6 or 7 hours of slep just fine, when
before I would have to have 10 hours even to function, and that never
seemed like enough.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ONE SIZE FITS ALL WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH AND
NUTRITION. I have seen friends and family have similar experiences with
eating for their individual differences. Everything from diabetes to
Crohn's disease to cardiovascular problems to arthritis would respond
positively to a personalized approach.
> there is something this misses. Taurine. It is hard to find in
> vegetables, the
> best sources are beef and bugs. next down other meats.
> we cannot make all the taurine we need. We are not obligate carnivores
> cats, who can make no taurine at all. But we need meat.
> I found out that mushrooms have the same protein amino acid profile as
> meat, but whether they are a taurine source or not I am not sure.
> Lactase loss depends on not using milk. Keep drinking milk all your
> life, you don't lose it, stop drinking for years except for the occasional
> milk shake (and lactose seems to be reduced by some processing)
> then you will lose lactase.
> eggs and cheese and whey are good taurine sources. we also need
> I used to be very, very dependent on meat, preferably raw or rare. I
> the Eastern Orthodox Church, and on Wednesdays and Fridays and
> all of Lent and some other fasting seasons, NO ANIMAL PRODUCT AT ALL.
> It took years for me to be able to handle Lent, and even so I take a break
> on the weekends as per some earlier canons and practices gone against
> by later ones.
> Originally I would be diving desperately into RAW BEEF LIVER at
> exactly sundown Friday, in a serious mess from just doing Wednesday
> and Friday no meat or anything animal. Gradually since 2008 I have been
> able to get along better, and am not a mess Friday sundown. (some
> EO count days sundown to sundown, many go midnight to midnight.)
> I am not even a mess at the end of Lent, having gone several weeks
> with no animal product except on weekends. A whole week, and not
> wracked. When I first started this, I remember sizing up a woman's
> leg in terms of where you make the cut to take the meat, NOT WITH
> INTENT, or desire to do so, just it crossed my mind, that muscle
> comes off this way.....
> anyway, everybody is not suited for a vegan life, and I would never
> let a child go without some fresh meat and eggs or cheese. It is
> important to development. However, meat every day, well, maybe
> it leaves you less used to making your own taurine.
> Like I said, we make a lot but not enough of our taurine, and it is
> essential to nerves, eyes, heart.
> In a message dated 4/25/2011 4:00:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> annie@... writes:
> I am a nutritionist and would just pick up on your referral to B
> Vitamin B group vitamins are found in abundance in foods such as
> wholegrains, green leafy vegetables, avocado, nuts and nut butters ,
> beansprouts, mushrooms, melons, bananas, oranges, beans e.g.
> lentils, pinto beans. Since the heavy use of pesticides Vitamin
> B12 is the
> B Vitamin that became harder to find. It was found in abundance on
> and vegetables and in some drinking water but due to the zealous
> use of
> pesticides natural occurring Vit B12 has been reduced. Vegans find
> B12 in
> fortfied non gmo soya milks, cereals, soya margarine, soya "meat"
> natex (low
> salt) yeast extract, it is not a problem Humans do not require to
> eat the
> flesh or by-products of animal . It is a fact that the human
> anatomy and
> physiology is designed to eat a 100 % plant based diet. Humans
> have evolved
> to CHOOSE to eat flesh dictated by the tastebuds but their anatomy
> and phys.
> has not changed, hence the health problems that we deal with. It
> is a fact
> that by the age of 4yrs humans no longer have the lactase enzyme
> present to
> process lactose (milk sugar) humans are the only species that
> persists in
> drinking the milk of another species after weaning. The consumption of
> cows milk has been scientifically linked with early on set of
> diabetes in
> children(the milk sugar confuses the pancreas) , in childhood
> leukaemia also
> Crohn's disease.
> There is so much to go into here but that is why I am writing my
> book at
> the moment to help to set out well researched and sound
> information so that
> others can make an informed choice. I have found through working
> with many
> people that there is a great deal of confusing and somewhat poorly
> info. I study the scientific research and discuss with cancer
> etc. That is the only way to properly link up and check out every
> piece of
> resource available also if you are reading so called scientific
> study papers
> always check out who has commissioned/paid for them. One study
> some years ago now was all about the dangers of soya milk - very
> few people
> ever noted that it was the Milk Marketing Board who were behind it !
> Incredibly inaccurate and misleading info was presentd as fact !
> Dairy and
> Meat industries are big business !( these are your multi billion
> businesses !) Just look at what is spent on misleading advertising
> With the
> knowledge that I have acquired over my lifetime I would no more
> give my
> children meat and dairy than I would hand them cigarettes and
> alcohol. Why
> give your child food that will make them ill and is infected and
> (or has to be cooked so much to get rid of the bacteria that it
> carcinogenic) when they can have clean burning nutrition
> appropriate for
> their anatomy and physiology.
> A friend of mine James is a Spinal specialist and is approaching
> 60 he is a
> lifelong vegan and looks about 40 he has treated so many people
> celebrities) and could see the acidifying effect of a meat and
> dairy diet
> upon the skeletons of his clients. Great business for him he was
> able to
> retire early and gives talks on diet and health.
> www.evolvecampaigns.org.uk worth a look .
> I,myself, have raised two children on a 100% plant based diet and
> they are
> both fit and healthy and never experienced weight issues that many
> of their
> schoolfriends did. My daughter has a 18 month old breast fed and vegan
> and is expecting another in July. My daughter is a keen cook so
> makes all
> the family meals from scratch, to be sure that the food is fresh
> and as
> nutritious as possible.
> Anyway have wandered , I was just wanting to pick up on the B Vitamin
> Have a good day Blessings Megan x
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:email@example.com <mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: 14 April 2011 17:18
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org <mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [pfaf] Plant based diets Was "definition of "farm"
> I disagree that we can get everything we want from a plant based diet.
> Further, I think that strictly plant based diets are harmful for
> the younger they are this more harmful it might be. There are no
> societies that have such diets. They only exist in highly
> countries, and are dependent on industrial technology to supplement
> essential vitamins and amino acids that don't exist in sufficient
> in plants. There is really good research backing this up at the
> Weston A.
> Price Foundation http://www.westonaprice.org.
> Price was a dentist that wanted to know why people in third world
> traditional societies had big wide smiles while people in the U. S.
> frequently had crowded mouths and bad teeth. What he found, to
> make a long
> story short, is that almost everything we thought we had learned and
> accomplished with modern food production and processing methods
> was bad for
> you and that people n eed raw milk, meat and fat from naturally raised
> animals, and to be eating less processed foods and cereal grains.
> Most strict vegetarians get vitamin B from nutritional yeast most
> of which
> is grown on GMO beet pulp. Those that are paying a lot of money to get
> non-GMO yeast still rely on industrial technologies to provide
> them this
> vital nutrition. In talking to many vegans and vegetarians I found
> they have
> very little science based knowledge on animal nutrition, relying on
> marketing organizations that promote their products and hearsay
> for their
> information. In saying that I realize that science can't explain
> that we might believe is true, but the science is a well settled
> fact when
> it comes to animal nutrition, including humans. I found that the
> best and
> most objective nutritional information comes from research on
> chickens and
> other barnyard animals and is far less likely to be influenced by the
> multi-billion dollar industries that are promoting products to
> peop le that
> have decided that not eating meat is something they would like to try.
> --- In email@example.com <mailto:pfaf%40yahoogroups.com>, john
> willis <wilf1946@...> wrote:
> > What great people you all are.
> > The problem as I see it is that there are too many people on the
> for "real" livestock farming ever to satisfy demand. The scale of this
> demand is such that the environmental damage caused is
> unsustainable.................and in any case we can get
> everything we need
> from a plant-based diet (provided we dispense with our obsessive
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