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Alternative VAC?

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  • Johan H. Bodin
    Hi, here s a new virtual audio cable: http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately,
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
      Hi,

      here's a new virtual audio cable:

      http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm

      It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately, Perseus' VAC
      connection seems to be hardcoded to Muzychenko's VAC only.

      Pity that the output devices are not selectable in Perseus...

      73
      Johan SM6LKM
    • Werner Karn
      Thanks Johan. That s really a pitty for me also, however there must be some way to accomplishing this task, as Sandro has done this in Studio1 with Perseus and
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
        Thanks Johan. That's really a pitty for me also, however there must be some way to accomplishing this task,
        as Sandro has done this in Studio1 with Perseus and VAC.
         
        73,
         
        Werner


        2013/4/16 Johan H. Bodin <jh.bodin@...>
         

        Hi,

        here's a new virtual audio cable:

        http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm

        It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately, Perseus' VAC
        connection seems to be hardcoded to Muzychenko's VAC only.

        Pity that the output devices are not selectable in Perseus...

        73
        Johan SM6LKM


      • Jurgen Bartels
        ... You only need a soundcard selector. It is pretty simple for Nico to implement that, so ask him to do that. :-) Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany Ant.
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
          > Thanks Johan. That's really a pitty for me also, however there must be some
          > way to accomplishing this task,

          You only need a soundcard selector.
          It is pretty simple for Nico to implement that, so ask him to do that. :-)





          Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
          Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
          TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
          FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
          MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
          http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
        • DirkCL
          ... Indeed... from VAC also supports a custom (proprietary) version creation to be used together with a
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
            --- In perseus_SDR@yahoogroups.com, "Johan H. Bodin" <jh.bodin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > here's a new virtual audio cable:
            >
            > http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm
            >
            > It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately,
            > Perseus' VAC connection seems to be hardcoded to Muzychenko's VAC only.

            Indeed... from <http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm#source>

            "VAC also supports a custom (proprietary) version creation to be used together with a particular application only. Each of custom versions has an unique key to identify its "native" application. This "native" application uses a special way to open the driver. Such opening way is called a "open in the native mode". When the driver is opened in native mode, it transfers audio signal without any limitations.. If not, it adds a noise to the signal to prevent unauthorized usage."
            ----

            I would like an alternative to VAC as well. I'm sure it's fine for standard "listening" , but for audio streams carrying digital data it works far from perfect and frequently looses/interrupts/corrupts(?) the audio data. (and yes, I have a registered copy of VAC)

            Below is an example from a Navtex transmission from Ostend (located 90 km from my QTH and booming in at S9+30). Notice the brabbling on line 5, caused by VAC:

            013-03-25 03:14:22 91> ZCZC TA72
            2013-03-25 03:14:24 91> 181749 UTC MAR
            2013-03-25 03:14:29 91> OOSTENDERADIO - NX 144/13
            2013-03-25 03:14:42 91> APPROACH WESTERSCHELDE/THORNHOMONGYZCHP~~G~JP~F~M~CYZJPMLCZ~MU~~P~II~~~{}L 5S
            2013-03-25 03:14:48 91> , 51-36.55N 002-55.32E,
            2013-03-25 03:14:51 91> TEMPO ESTABLISHED.
            2013-03-25 03:14:57 90> AUTOCANCEL 011849 UTC APR 13.
            2013-03-25 03:14:57 90> NNNN

            When I patch the headphone output to the Line-In input and use that as the input for the decoder, this NEVER happens. I have checked this for 6 consecutive nights in a row: when I use VAC, the decoder will run into problems frequently; when the direct audio input is used, all is fine.

            (I'm assuming here that Perseus is sending _identical_ audio streams to the speakers and to VAC)

            Regards - Dirk
          • Jurgen Bartels
            ... I never observed that. I feed Speclab via DRM-mode and don t see any spectral disturbances. You must prevent VAC from resampling, by setting in and out-SR
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
              > I would like an alternative to VAC as well. I'm sure it's fine for
              > standard "listening" , but for audio streams carrying digital data it
              > works far from perfect and frequently looses/interrupts/corrupts(?) the
              > audio data. (and yes, I have a registered copy of VAC)

              I never observed that. I feed Speclab via DRM-mode and don't see any
              spectral disturbances. You must prevent VAC from resampling, by setting in
              and out-SR to 32500 S/s




              Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
              Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
              TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
              FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
              MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
              http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
            • Alberto I2PHD
              ... I think the output sampling frequency of Perseus is 31250 Hz, and not 32500... -- /*73 Alberto I2PHD*/
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 17, 2013
                On 4/17/2013 1:21 AM, Jurgen Bartels wrote:

                I never observed that. I feed Speclab via DRM-mode and don't see any
                spectral disturbances. You must prevent VAC from resampling, by setting in
                and out-SR to 32500 S/s

                I think the output sampling frequency of Perseus is 31250 Hz, and not 32500...


                --
                73 Alberto I2PHD
              • Jurgen Bartels
                ... Oh yes you are right. My brain gets fuzzy over time :-( Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11,
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 17, 2013
                  > > /I never observed that. I feed Speclab via DRM-mode and don't see any
                  > > spectral disturbances. You must prevent VAC from resampling, by setting in
                  > > and out-SR to 32500 S/s/
                  >
                  > I think the output sampling frequency of Perseus is 31250 Hz, and not
                  > 32500...

                  Oh yes you are right. My brain gets fuzzy over time :-(




                  Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
                  Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
                  TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
                  FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
                  MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
                  http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
                • Jurgen Bartels
                  ... Not wise when you want prevent resampling as I told earlier Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 17, 2013
                    > And 44100kHz in client mode.

                    Not wise when you want prevent resampling as I told earlier


                    Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
                    Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
                    TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
                    FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
                    MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
                    http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
                  • Alberto I2PHD
                    ... Johan, have you actually tried that VBcable ? I installed it and tried to send the output of Winrad to Argo, as I do normally with VAC. Argo did not
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 17, 2013
                      On 4/16/2013 2:58 PM, Johan H. Bodin wrote:

                      here's a new virtual audio cable:
                      
                        http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm
                      
                      It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately, Perseus' VAC
                      connection seems to be hardcoded to Muzychenko's VAC only.

                      Johan,

                         have you actually tried that VBcable ? I installed it and tried to send the output of Winrad to Argo,
                      as I do normally with VAC. Argo did not receive anything...  switching back to VAC, all resumed working
                      normally... the control panel of VBaudio reported that the output channel was opened at 48 kHz, 16 bit,
                      which are the correct values for Argo, and the input channel was opened at 12 kHz, 24 bit, the correct
                      values for Winrad, so the two programs somehow talked to VBaudio.  The problem was that audio data
                      were not received by Argo...

                      --
                      73 Alberto I2PHD
                    • Jurgen Bartels
                      ... I run 31250/31250 only for years and have never seen Perseus crash And why should it? Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el,
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                        > > Not wise when you want prevent resampling as I told earlier
                        >
                        > Wise, because if you force VAC into single SR of 31250kHz,
                        > Perseus will not run as client at all.
                        > Many users will not understand why Perseus crashes.

                        I run 31250/31250 only for years and have never seen Perseus crash
                        And why should it?




                        Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
                        Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
                        TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
                        FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
                        MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
                        http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
                      • Roberto Zinelli
                        Alberto, I also tried and i have the same result, very strange BUT......... In my test setup: Perseus tuned to 10100 RTTY, software HDSDR with the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                          Alberto, I also  tried and i have the same result,  very strange BUT.........

                          In my test setup:  Perseus tuned to 10100 RTTY, software HDSDR with the sound-card output  to  "VB-Audio Point" .

                          SeaTTY input "VB-Audio Point". No signal at SeattY.

                          Then i started "audio Repeater", a tool from VCABLE, don't care wot you select as wave in but select VB-Audio as wave out then start.
                          The Seatty show signal incoming.....now stop the Audio Repeater end close it.  Seatty continues to operate!

                          Stop and then start HDSDR  (F2) and again the signal at SeaTTY disappear.   seems that VB-Audio not open in output  automatically.


                          What you think about ? 

                          73 IW4ENS
                          Roberto




                          On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Alberto I2PHD <i2phd@...> wrote:
                           

                          On 4/16/2013 2:58 PM, Johan H. Bodin wrote:

                          here's a new virtual audio cable:
                          
                            http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm
                          
                          It would be interesting to try it with Perseus but, unfortunately, Perseus' VAC
                          connection seems to be hardcoded to Muzychenko's VAC only.

                          Johan,

                             have you actually tried that VBcable ? I installed it and tried to send the output of Winrad to Argo,
                          as I do normally with VAC. Argo did not receive anything...  switching back to VAC, all resumed working
                          normally... the control panel of VBaudio reported that the output channel was opened at 48 kHz, 16 bit,
                          which are the correct values for Argo, and the input channel was opened at 12 kHz, 24 bit, the correct
                          values for Winrad, so the two programs somehow talked to VBaudio.  The problem was that audio data
                          were not received by Argo...

                          --
                          73 Alberto I2PHD


                        • DirkCL
                          ... Hi Jurgen, Thanks for the tip, but if resampling is supposed to be the problem, how do you explain that it can work perfectly for say, one hour, and then
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                            --- In perseus_SDR@yahoogroups.com, "Jurgen Bartels" <jurgenb2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I would like an alternative to VAC as well. I'm sure it's fine for
                            > > standard "listening" , but for audio streams carrying digital data it
                            > > works far from perfect and frequently looses/interrupts/corrupts(?) the
                            > > audio data. (and yes, I have a registered copy of VAC)
                            >
                            > I never observed that. I feed Speclab via DRM-mode and don't see any
                            > spectral disturbances. You must prevent VAC from resampling, by setting in
                            > and out-SR to 32500 S/s
                            >

                            Hi Jurgen,

                            Thanks for the tip, but if resampling is supposed to be the problem, how do you explain that it can work perfectly for say, one hour, and then suddenly cause the glitch I described? Also note that the phenomenon was reported for a wide variety of hardware and OS-versions.

                            Regards - Dirk
                          • Alberto I2PHD
                            ... Well, I tried that, but no luck.... I started, as i my previous message, both Winrad and Argo, trying to connect them with VB-Audio. This is the Control
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                              On 4/18/2013 3:13 PM, Roberto Zinelli wrote:


                              Alberto, I also  tried and i have the same result,  very strange BUT.........

                              In my test setup:  Perseus tuned to 10100 RTTY, software HDSDR with the sound-card output  to  "VB-Audio Point" .

                              SeaTTY input "VB-Audio Point". No signal at SeattY.

                              Then i started "audio Repeater", a tool from VCABLE, don't care wot you select as wave in but select VB-Audio as wave out then start.
                              The Seatty show signal incoming.....now stop the Audio Repeater end close it.  Seatty continues to operate!

                              Stop and then start HDSDR  (F2) and again the signal at SeaTTY disappear.   seems that VB-Audio not open in output  automatically.


                              Well, I tried that, but no luck....
                              I started, as i my previous message, both Winrad and Argo, trying to connect them with VB-Audio.
                              This is the Control Panel of VB-Audio :

                              https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable3.gif&t=1495765963&sig=HWARyX2y_VjMGMqgMhmH5Q--~C

                              Then started the Audio Repeater from the VAC package, as shown here :

                              https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable1.gif&t=1495765963&sig=gE9LWKTzSlJioti4xNyB4Q--~C

                              But clicking on "Start" gave this error message :

                              https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable2.gif&t=1495765963&sig=yBZQhqFao2bZSa3Un.uBNA--~C

                              --
                              73 Alberto I2PHD
                            • Roberto Zinelli
                              Yes, my be the vb-cable is not perfect. About your test the difference is my audio repeater version 1.20
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                                Yes, my be the vb-cable is not perfect.

                                About your test the difference is my audio repeater version 1.20



                                No problem, VAC work fine

                                73 IW4ENS
                                Roberto


                                On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Alberto I2PHD <i2phd@...> wrote:
                                 

                                On 4/18/2013 3:13 PM, Roberto Zinelli wrote:


                                Alberto, I also  tried and i have the same result,  very strange BUT.........

                                In my test setup:  Perseus tuned to 10100 RTTY, software HDSDR with the sound-card output  to  "VB-Audio Point" .

                                SeaTTY input "VB-Audio Point". No signal at SeattY.

                                Then i started "audio Repeater", a tool from VCABLE, don't care wot you select as wave in but select VB-Audio as wave out then start.
                                The Seatty show signal incoming.....now stop the Audio Repeater end close it.  Seatty continues to operate!

                                Stop and then start HDSDR  (F2) and again the signal at SeaTTY disappear.   seems that VB-Audio not open in output  automatically.


                                Well, I tried that, but no luck....
                                I started, as i my previous message, both Winrad and Argo, trying to connect them with VB-Audio.
                                This is the Control Panel of VB-Audio :

                                https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable3.gif&t=1495765963&sig=HWARyX2y_VjMGMqgMhmH5Q--~C

                                Then started the Audio Repeater from the VAC package, as shown here :

                                https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable1.gif&t=1495765963&sig=gE9LWKTzSlJioti4xNyB4Q--~C

                                But clicking on "Start" gave this error message :

                                https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropboxusercontent.com%2Fu%2F15089947%2Fvbcable2.gif&t=1495765963&sig=yBZQhqFao2bZSa3Un.uBNA--~C

                                --
                                73 Alberto I2PHD


                              • Jurgen Bartels
                                Hi Dirk, ... I assumed spectral distortions, the same that I initially oberserved here when using Speclab. After setting in/out SR to 31250 those disapeared
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 18, 2013
                                  Hi Dirk,

                                  > Thanks for the tip, but if resampling is supposed to be the problem, how do
                                  > you explain that it can work perfectly for say, one hour, and then suddenly
                                  > cause the glitch I described? Also note that the phenomenon was reported for a
                                  > wide variety of hardware and OS-versions.

                                  I assumed spectral distortions, the same that I initially oberserved here when
                                  using Speclab. After setting in/out SR to 31250 those disapeared entirely.

                                  In your case it seems that after a while there is a buffer overrun or another
                                  hickup that causes a brief loss of samples. The reason I don't know of course.
                                  What I meant to say is, that VAC works flawlessly here when set to 31250 /
                                  31250

                                  In my case there was another problem: The output-audio of SpecLab showed buffer
                                  overuns, causing brief clicks. The reason: The soundcard fetches samples from
                                  SpecLab at its own rate, that might be a slightly different than the
                                  Perseus-VAC-delivered rate. Once I enabled SpecLab's audio resampler the
                                  problem was gone.


                                  Jurgen Bartels Suellwarden, N. Germany
                                  Ant. hor: 29-45MHz 7-el, 45-87MHz 11-el, FM 15.11, Band-3:13-el, UHF:48-el
                                  TV: Winradio G305 / Fly2000 + video noise filter & variable IF BW
                                  FM: Downconverter + Perseus + Speclab as WFM demod.
                                  MW: 300m Bev 260°, 30 x 4m EWE 320° with JB-terminator, Winradio & Perseus
                                  http://zeiterfassung.3sdesign.de/station_list.htm
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