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Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie

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  • Mike Payne
    I think you re misunderstanding what Perl is all about. Web programming isn t even the majority of what Perl is used for. It s a unix programming language(much
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 25, 2000
      I think you're misunderstanding what Perl is all about. Web programming
      isn't even the majority of what Perl is used for. It's a unix programming
      language(much like Visual Basic is for windows), which has been used to tie
      in with Apache for CGI programming. It's not specifically designed to be
      used for web programming.

      In any case, it only works like all other server side web programming, you
      feed the program input, it processes it and feeds you output. That's it.

      -----------------------------------------------------------
      Mike "Theseus" Payne
      theseus@...
      http://www.simpleminded.org
      -----------------------------------------------------------


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Shad <shad@...>
      To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:44 AM
      Subject: RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie


      >
      >
      > <snip>1. It's interpreted.</snip>
      >
      > ***Shad says> Excellent. I use notepad for all my web stuff. I'm running a
      > dell 233 laptop (that locks up at random) with win98 so I don't wanna put
      > any unnessacary load on it by trying to code in a resource intensive
      package
      > like some of the editors out there for html and scripting.
      >
      > <snip>
      > You can get a Win32 build of perl, but it's not quite the same, especially
      > with file
      > paths.</snip>
      >
      > ***Shad says> Is there any complexity to the way it deals with file paths.
      > Some of the code i've seen uses a lot of /'s and \'s.
      >
      > It's not an easy language to learn for someone who doesn't at least
      > understand basic programming.
      >
      > ***Shad says> Well, I understand basic programming practice. I've written
      > stuff in Omnis, VB, Pascal (ick) and so on as well as html and Javascript.
      >
      > 5. What makes Perl an abnormal language?
      >
      > ***Shad says> I just 'assumed' that it was gonna function very differently
      > from the sort of languages that people use at large. I've been told that
      > PERL is very much a 'black box' kind of language whereby you take input
      from
      > the user using FORMs and send it out into the nether, and then they get a
      > response from the PERL script which is normally generated HTML. (am I
      > right?)
      > SO, If I'm correct, instead of PERL doing all the work, it processes stuff
      > sent to it and gives stuff back. (or doesn't) the user never sees the
      PERL,
      > only the results.
      > (perhaps I'm wrong. ;)
      >
      >
      > -----------------------------------------------------------
      > Mike "Theseus" Payne
      > theseus@...
      > http://www.simpleminded.org
      > -----------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Shad <shad@...>
      > To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:54 AM
      > Subject: [PBML] Complete Newbie
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Hiya guys an` girls,
      > > I've been lurking for about 5 digests but now I'm gonna try and get
      > > involved.
      > > My name's Shad, and I've no experience with PERL. All I've really done
      is
      > > HTML & forms and javascript. The forms never had any back-end
      intervention
      > > but I really need to learn about this.
      > >
      > > I've been told that PERL is probably my best bet but to be brutally
      honest
      > I
      > > know nothing about it. I've seen some of the code-lets you've posted
      here
      > > and it seems to make sense but I'm just guessing really ;)
      > >
      > > SO, I wan wondering if anyone could help me get started. I have a few
      > > questions that I'm hoping someone could answer for me;
      > >
      > > 1) Is PERL a compiled or an intepreted language like HTML + JS ?
      > >
      > > 2) I'm running Win 98. I'm assuming you don't need a unix box to
      > > code in it. am I right ?
      > >
      > > 3) If it is compiled, where do I get the compiler/utilities that I
      > > will need to get started ?
      > > 4) Is there a 'PERL' for beginners tutorial ? what's the best
      > > resource to get going ?
      > >
      > > 5) Is there any major differences between say, Javascript or any
      > > other 'normal' programming language, in the way PERL functions ?
      > >
      > > Sorry to be a pain but I really need to get my teeth into this one as
      soon
      > > as possible.
      > > tia for any help,
      > > shAdders.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Oliver Manickum
      Ahh Mike ... You make it sound so boring ;O( heheehhehe - Oliver ... From: Mike Payne [mailto:theseus@telocity.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:12 PM
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 25, 2000
        RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie

        Ahh Mike ...

                You make it sound so boring ;O( heheehhehe

        - Oliver

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mike Payne [mailto:theseus@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:12 PM
        To: perl-beginner@egroups.com
        Subject: Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie


        -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
        The future belongs to Wireless.
        Learn Wireless Development Now
        http://click.egroups.com/1/9111/15/_/12898/_/969887551/
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

        I think you're misunderstanding what Perl is all about. Web programming
        isn't even the majority of what Perl is used for. It's a unix programming
        language(much like Visual Basic is for windows), which has been used to tie
        in with Apache for CGI programming. It's not specifically designed to be
        used for web programming.

        In any case, it only works like all other server side web programming, you
        feed the program input, it processes it and feeds you output. That's it.

        -----------------------------------------------------------
        Mike "Theseus" Payne
        theseus@...
        http://www.simpleminded.org
        -----------------------------------------------------------


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Shad <shad@...>
        To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:44 AM
        Subject: RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie


        >
        >
        > <snip>1. It's interpreted.</snip>
        >
        > ***Shad says> Excellent. I use notepad for all my web stuff. I'm running a
        > dell 233 laptop (that locks up at random) with win98 so I don't wanna put
        > any unnessacary load on it by trying to code in a resource intensive
        package
        > like some of the editors out there for html and scripting.
        >
        > <snip>
        > You can get a Win32 build of perl, but it's not quite the same, especially
        > with file
        > paths.</snip>
        >
        > ***Shad says> Is there any complexity to the way it deals with file paths.
        > Some of the code i've seen uses a lot of /'s and \'s.
        >
        > It's not an easy language to learn for someone who doesn't at least
        > understand basic programming.
        >
        > ***Shad says> Well,  I understand basic programming practice. I've written
        > stuff in Omnis, VB, Pascal (ick) and so on as well as html and Javascript.
        >
        > 5. What makes Perl an abnormal language?
        >
        > ***Shad says> I just 'assumed' that it was gonna function very differently
        > from the sort of languages that people use at large. I've been told that
        > PERL is very much a 'black box' kind of language whereby you take input
        from
        > the user using FORMs and send it out into the nether, and then they get a
        > response from the PERL script which is normally generated HTML. (am I
        > right?)
        > SO, If I'm correct, instead of PERL doing all the work, it processes stuff
        > sent to it and gives stuff back. (or doesn't) the user never sees the
        PERL,
        > only the results.
        > (perhaps I'm wrong. ;)
        >
        >
        > -----------------------------------------------------------
        > Mike "Theseus" Payne
        > theseus@...
        > http://www.simpleminded.org
        > -----------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Shad <shad@...>
        > To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:54 AM
        > Subject: [PBML] Complete Newbie
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Hiya guys an` girls,
        > > I've been lurking for about 5 digests but now I'm gonna try and get
        > > involved.
        > > My name's Shad, and I've no experience with PERL. All I've really done
        is
        > > HTML & forms and javascript. The forms never had any back-end
        intervention
        > > but I really need to learn about this.
        > >
        > > I've been told that PERL is probably my best bet but to be brutally
        honest
        > I
        > > know nothing about it. I've seen some of the code-lets you've posted
        here
        > > and it seems to make sense but I'm just guessing really ;)
        > >
        > > SO, I wan wondering if anyone could help me get started. I have a few
        > > questions that I'm hoping someone could answer for me;
        > >
        > > 1) Is PERL a compiled or an intepreted language like HTML + JS ?
        > >
        > > 2) I'm running Win 98. I'm assuming you don't need a unix box to
        > > code in it. am I right ?
        > >
        > > 3) If it is compiled, where do I get the compiler/utilities that I
        > > will need to get started ?
        > > 4) Is there a 'PERL' for beginners tutorial ? what's the best
        > > resource to get going ?
        > >
        > > 5) Is there any major differences between say, Javascript or any
        > > other 'normal' programming language, in the way PERL functions ?
        > >
        > > Sorry to be a pain but I really need to get my teeth into this one as
        soon
        > > as possible.
        > > tia for any help,
        > > shAdders.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >






      • Mike Payne
        RE: [PBML] Complete NewbieWell, in a way, it is. You can do some pretty cool things with it, but it s still just an I/O language. =) ... Mike Theseus Payne
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 25, 2000
          RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie
          Well, in a way, it is. You can do some pretty cool things with it, but it's still just an I/O language. =)

          -----------------------------------------------------------
          Mike "Theseus" Payne
          theseus@...
          http://www.simpleminded.org
          -----------------------------------------------------------
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:34 AM
          Subject: RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie


          Ahh Mike ...

                  You make it sound so boring ;O( heheehhehe

          - Oliver

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mike Payne [mailto:theseus@...]
          Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:12 PM
          To: perl-beginner@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie


          -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
          The future belongs to Wireless.
          Learn Wireless Development Now
          http://click.egroups.com/1/9111/15/_/12898/_/969887551/
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

          I think you're misunderstanding what Perl is all about. Web programming
          isn't even the majority of what Perl is used for. It's a unix programming
          language(much like Visual Basic is for windows), which has been used to tie
          in with Apache for CGI programming. It's not specifically designed to be
          used for web programming.

          In any case, it only works like all other server side web programming, you
          feed the program input, it processes it and feeds you output. That's it.

          -----------------------------------------------------------
          Mike "Theseus" Payne
          theseus@...
          http://www.simpleminded.org
          -----------------------------------------------------------


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Shad <shad@...>
          To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:44 AM
          Subject: RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie


          >
          >
          > <snip>1. It's interpreted.</snip>
          >
          > ***Shad says> Excellent. I use notepad for all my web stuff. I'm running a
          > dell 233 laptop (that locks up at random) with win98 so I don't wanna put
          > any unnessacary load on it by trying to code in a resource intensive
          package
          > like some of the editors out there for html and scripting.
          >
          > <snip>
          > You can get a Win32 build of perl, but it's not quite the same, especially
          > with file
          > paths.</snip>
          >
          > ***Shad says> Is there any complexity to the way it deals with file paths.
          > Some of the code i've seen uses a lot of /'s and \'s.
          >
          > It's not an easy language to learn for someone who doesn't at least
          > understand basic programming.
          >
          > ***Shad says> Well,  I understand basic programming practice. I've written
          > stuff in Omnis, VB, Pascal (ick) and so on as well as html and Javascript.
          >
          > 5. What makes Perl an abnormal language?
          >
          > ***Shad says> I just 'assumed' that it was gonna function very differently
          > from the sort of languages that people use at large. I've been told that
          > PERL is very much a 'black box' kind of language whereby you take input
          from
          > the user using FORMs and send it out into the nether, and then they get a
          > response from the PERL script which is normally generated HTML. (am I
          > right?)
          > SO, If I'm correct, instead of PERL doing all the work, it processes stuff
          > sent to it and gives stuff back. (or doesn't) the user never sees the
          PERL,
          > only the results.
          > (perhaps I'm wrong. ;)
          >
          >
          > -----------------------------------------------------------
          > Mike "Theseus" Payne
          > theseus@...
          > http://www.simpleminded.org
          > -----------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Shad <shad@...>
          > To: <perl-beginner@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:54 AM
          > Subject: [PBML] Complete Newbie
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Hiya guys an` girls,
          > > I've been lurking for about 5 digests but now I'm gonna try and get
          > > involved.
          > > My name's Shad, and I've no experience with PERL. All I've really done
          is
          > > HTML & forms and javascript. The forms never had any back-end
          intervention
          > > but I really need to learn about this.
          > >
          > > I've been told that PERL is probably my best bet but to be brutally
          honest
          > I
          > > know nothing about it. I've seen some of the code-lets you've posted
          here
          > > and it seems to make sense but I'm just guessing really ;)
          > >
          > > SO, I wan wondering if anyone could help me get started. I have a few
          > > questions that I'm hoping someone could answer for me;
          > >
          > > 1) Is PERL a compiled or an intepreted language like HTML + JS ?
          > >
          > > 2) I'm running Win 98. I'm assuming you don't need a unix box to
          > > code in it. am I right ?
          > >
          > > 3) If it is compiled, where do I get the compiler/utilities that I
          > > will need to get started ?
          > > 4) Is there a 'PERL' for beginners tutorial ? what's the best
          > > resource to get going ?
          > >
          > > 5) Is there any major differences between say, Javascript or any
          > > other 'normal' programming language, in the way PERL functions ?
          > >
          > > Sorry to be a pain but I really need to get my teeth into this one as
          soon
          > > as possible.
          > > tia for any help,
          > > shAdders.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >






        • Mohammed Sameer
          Hi Shad, Welcome with us 1) Perl is an interpreted language like HTML when you run the program it is compiled at that time only & at every time you run it 2) I
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 25, 2000
            Hi Shad,
            Welcome with us
            1) Perl is an interpreted language like HTML
            when you run the program it is compiled at that time only & at every time
            you run it
            2) I run WIN 98 & i write perl scripts with full functions except for
            Flock & Sending mail !!!!!
            3)You can download Perl from
            http://www.activestate.com
            =====
            Sorry i don't know more :-(

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Shad [mailto:shad@...]
            Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 2:55 PM
            To: 'perl-beginner@egroups.com'
            Subject: [PBML] Complete Newbie



            Hiya guys an` girls,
            I've been lurking for about 5 digests but now I'm gonna try and get
            involved.
            My name's Shad, and I've no experience with PERL. All I've really done is
            HTML & forms and javascript. The forms never had any back-end intervention
            but I really need to learn about this.

            I've been told that PERL is probably my best bet but to be brutally honest I
            know nothing about it. I've seen some of the code-lets you've posted here
            and it seems to make sense but I'm just guessing really ;)

            SO, I wan wondering if anyone could help me get started. I have a few
            questions that I'm hoping someone could answer for me;

            1) Is PERL a compiled or an intepreted language like HTML + JS ?

            2) I'm running Win 98. I'm assuming you don't need a unix box to
            code in it. am I right ?

            3) If it is compiled, where do I get the compiler/utilities that I
            will need to get started ?
            4) Is there a 'PERL' for beginners tutorial ? what's the best
            resource to get going ?

            5) Is there any major differences between say, Javascript or any
            other 'normal' programming language, in the way PERL functions ?

            Sorry to be a pain but I really need to get my teeth into this one as soon
            as possible.
            tia for any help,
            shAdders.
          • Smith, Sheldon
            All languages are just I/O languages. Without some form of I/O, all you have is a CPU loop: 10 I = 1 20 I = I + 1 30 if I
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 26, 2000
              All languages are just "I/O languages." Without some form of I/O, all you
              have is a CPU loop:
              10 I = 1
              20 I = I + 1
              30 if I < 1000000000 goto 20
              40 end

              "Perl is short for Practical Extraction and Report Language," although it
              has also been called a "Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister." There's no
              point in arguing which one is more correct, because both are endorsed by
              Larry Wall, Perl's creator and chief architect, implementor, and maintainer.
              He created Perl when he was trying to produce some reports from a
              Usenet-news-like hierarchy of files for a bug-reporting system, and awk wan
              out of steam..."
              -- "Learning Perl", chapter 1 -- O'Reilly & Associates

              Mr. Wall took the functionality of several tools of Unix origin and combined
              them into one general-purpose tool. awk, sed, sort and -shell, yes, it acts
              like those. If you have not seen them before, regular expressions (again of
              Unix origin) are mind-bogglingly powerful for string matching and
              substitution. Stuff that would take literally pages of code in another
              language can be done in a few lines in Perl.
              Object-Oriented? Sure, no problem. It's as object-oriented as C++, which is
              to say, totally OO, none, or somewhere in-between, it's up to you.
              JIT-compiler? Well, AFAIK, it examines the syntax and, if there are no
              errors, converts it to internal token code, which it then runs. So I guess
              you can consider it to compile at the very last moment, and then always
              cleans up when done.

              Regardless of what any book says, if you have never programmed before, you
              really need to take a class or two on programming theory. Anybody can write
              crap code (and quite a few do).
              Sheldon E. Smith
              Compaq Global Services
              Senior Technology Consultant
              Technology Integration Group

              7831 Glenroy Road, Suite 250
              Bloomington, Minnesota 55439

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Mike Payne [mailto:theseus@...]
              Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:53 AM
              Subject: Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie





              Well, in a way, it is. You can do some pretty cool things with it, but it's
              still just an I/O language. =)



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Oliver <mailto:oliver@...> Manickum
              Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:34 AM
              Subject: RE: [PBML] Complete Newbie


              You make it sound so boring ;O( heheehhehe

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Mike Payne [ mailto:theseus@... <mailto:theseus@...>
              ]
              Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie

              I think you're misunderstanding what Perl is all about. Web programming
              isn't even the majority of what Perl is used for. It's a unix programming
              language(much like Visual Basic is for windows), which has been used to tie
              in with Apache for CGI programming. It's not specifically designed to be
              used for web programming.
            • webmaster@bmw-club.org.uk
              ... Beginners Guide to Perl/CGI --- http://www.lies.com/begperl/ The CGI Resource Index --- http://cgi.resourceindex.com/Documentation/CGI_Tutorials/
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 27, 2000
                --- In perl-beginner@egroups.com, Shad <shad@b...> wrote:
                > 4) Is there a 'PERL' for beginners tutorial ? what's the best
                > resource to get going ?

                Beginners Guide to Perl/CGI --- http://www.lies.com/begperl/

                The CGI Resource Index ---
                http://cgi.resourceindex.com/Documentation/CGI_Tutorials/

                ===============
                Greg Smith
                BMW Club [www.bmw-club.org.uk]
              • Gerrit Haase
                ... Me: I m running cygwin-bash-shell, a substitute for dos-shell, and it is really unix-style, you are able to mount drives, hardlink files, all the pretty
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 27, 2000
                  Shad:
                  > 2) I'm running Win 98. I'm assuming you don't need a unix box to
                  > code in it. am I right ?

                  Me:
                  I'm running cygwin-bash-shell, a substitute for dos-shell, and it is
                  really unix-style, you are able to mount drives, hardlink files, all
                  the pretty unixstuff that is unavailable for Win32 (best of all is a
                  free c/c++ compiler, make and so on, that enables you to install perl
                  as it likes most, on unix)
                  You really get more out of perl with cygwin, load your cygwin-setup
                  down and start it, it will install itself and works, no problems with
                  dos-shell-lacks anymore. There is also a Perl-binary for this shell,
                  and you get all the other stuff to work with cygwin under windows.
                  Look at http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/
                  It is really great! Forget Windows.
                  Gerrit
                  --
                  Gerrit Peter Haase
                • Gerrit Haase
                  Since Redhat is really hard to get this time, you can also download the setup from mirrors, look in latest directory ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/cygwin
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 27, 2000
                    Since Redhat is really hard to get this time, you can also download
                    the setup from mirrors, look in 'latest' directory


                    ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/cygwin (Austria)
                    ftp://ftp.u-aizu.ac.jp/pub/gnu/gnu-win32/ (Japan)
                    ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/sourceware/cygwin/ (US)

                    ftp://sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/sourceware.cygnus.com/pub/cygwin/
                    (Chech Republic)
                    ftp://ftp.franken.de/pub/win32/develop/gnuwin32/cygwin/mirrors/cygnus
                    (Germany) with FULL openssh/openssl
                    ftp://ftp.u-aizu.ac.jp/pub/gnu/gnu-win32/ (Japan)

                    Gerrit
                    --
                    Gerrit Peter Haase
                  • Randy Garrett
                    What is the matter with you people?! LOL! What about www.perl.com which is the O Reilly site for Perl Programming! They are the MASTERS of Perl! I occasionally
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 15, 2000
                      What is the matter with you people?! LOL!

                      What about www.perl.com which is the O'Reilly site for Perl Programming!
                      They are the MASTERS of Perl!

                      I occasionally go there to pray to the wisdom of the Perl Gods! (grinning)

                      Randy Garrett
                      Santa Rosa, CA USA
                      randolph-garrett@...
                      (O'Reilly is just 10 miles from where I live)
                    • Randy Garrett
                      Ooops, spoke too soon on the last post. I just read Sheldon Smith s post. Randy Garrett Santa Rosa, CA USA randolph-garrett@bigfoot.com
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 15, 2000
                        Ooops, spoke too soon on the last post. I just read Sheldon Smith's post.

                        Randy Garrett
                        Santa Rosa, CA USA
                        randolph-garrett@...
                      • Smith, Sheldon
                        And (for any really new newbies) don t forget CPAN: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network at http://www.cpan.org
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 16, 2000
                          And (for any really new newbies) don't forget CPAN: Comprehensive Perl
                          Archive Network at
                          http://www.cpan.org

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Randy Garrett [mailto:randolph-garrett@...]
                          > Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:34 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [PBML] Complete Newbie
                          >
                          > What is the matter with you people?! LOL!
                          >
                          > What about www.perl.com which is the O'Reilly site for Perl
                          > Programming!
                          > They are the MASTERS of Perl!
                          >
                          > I occasionally go there to pray to the wisdom of the Perl
                          > Gods! (grinning)
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